let us put our thinking caps on!

is it really mischaracterization when you said so yourself that ml is giving mc the attitude? we both agree on that but we don’t view it the same way and i also don’t intend to convince you think so the same way as me. but i think your views really are clouded. you said so yourself that it’s your bias towards the ml and those are your words not mine. mental, physical, external, or internal, mc was still assaulted and he’s still a victim. nothing should be excluded like i said. you’re forgetting the fact that the reason his rut grew out of control is because mc is being considerate towards ml because mc knows ml is uncomfortable with him bringing a stranger home, and on your first response you said “mc should’ve tracker his rut better” so your bias is a bit too much. from a stranger’s point of view (me) you’re quite literally so adamant on defending an assaulter despite saying so yourself that you acknowledge it. just by saying that you acknowledge it is not enough, you shouldn’t put what ml did aside just to point how mc is “not a victim” mentally or whatever because mc doesn’t even remember the full details on what happened during his heat that’s why he’s so pushy with ml to fix everything up because he thinks it’s his fault. ml is still ungrateful for not apologizing on what he did while at the same time giving the mc the attitude he does not deserve. just from that fact alone, it shouldn’t even be a discussion. but to add off, why is the mc the one who has to fix everything when it’s ml who’s conscious during that time he assaulted him?

i know, i didnt say he didnt like him. i said the attitude he displays is childish and not even in the most recent chapter. but ur point about the abuse makes sense but i wouldnt say blondie doesnt treat him like an adult

Yeah i took back my idea of being clouded, i was tryna see your point and went back to reread and realized its just abt media literacy, its quite clear why Ml is distant. Also i never agreed that ml is throwing attitude bc in my op he isnt. The only thing i agreed on is that Ml should've left after giving him medicine. 2nd acknowleding Ml SAing Mc isnt "putting it off" or excusing his actions and i feel like ive explained it enough already. ML is not ungrateful and its shown multiple times he just doesnt want to be a burden or left like all of Mcs other relationships IE why he hides his feelings bc hes well aware he doesnt have a chance. We need to acknowledged Mc isnt the only one with feelings here. 3rd Mc's desire to "fix" the situation completely disregards how it could've felt for Ml. Both perspectives need to be looked at. In terms of behavior (again outside of ML Saing) Ml is not a villian

I feel from MLs perspective he does. Mc is overly conscious of Mcs personal life (this could be due to the space ML puts between them) I wouldnt say MLs behavior is childish, i think its standoffish bc hes afraid of doing smth he'll regret (damaging their relationship)but we all have our own perspectives of the manhwa and if you choose not to like his character for his character for that i respect your op

and no one is saying he’s a villain, he’s an assailant in and out. just because everyone is fine with what he did (because HE, the ml, is the only one aware of what he did to mc) doesn’t mean nothing happened and it can be looked over. do you still not see what i’m pointing out? i don’t hate the ml because i get where he’s coming, what i don’t like is what he did towards the mc which changed my whole perspective of him. because what gives him the right to assault the person who took him in and down right give mc an attitude after assaulting him? the least thing he could do is own up to his mistakes, he can distance himself from mc in many ways without snapping off and taking extra shifts just to avoid him. you need to understand that mc has feelings too, that’s literally why he’s trying to patch up what ml broke. he’s hurting and so is ml, and mc knows that. you may think what you want but again, to go as far as to not include the sa part just so you could say “ml is not a villain” when the whole reason why this whole riff started was because ml decided to assault mc.

Okay for the last time, sunce this conversation has begun, im not excusing ML for the assault. 2nd ML avoiding Mc ≠ attitude, hes not avoiding Mc bc he "is ungrateful" you keep pushing back to him being ungrateful. Hes avoiding mc bc hes 100% aware of what he did, feels guilty, + it was also reiterated that whatever he feels for mc wont be returned (anytime soon) the best way to get rid of feelings is distance. 3rd you saying Mc is trying to fix their relationship when in all honesty theres nothing to "fix" ML only adopted this type of relationship with Mc bc if he didnt mc would've been "sad" he also didnt wanna lose the only person who stuck beside him. The relationship wasnt built off of a genuine reason from the get go. Both ML and MC built the relationship off of their own selfishness. and yeah i went as far to for that part exclude the SA for a sec to say hes not a villain bc IM AWARE sexual assault is horrible? Again In my opinion it is mischaracterization to label him ungrateful or a brat. (Also Mc is aware the ML SAed him he just doesnt see it necessarily as SA for some reason but he does remember main parts of the night and the fact ML hung up the phone) also how is he supposed to distance himself without distance?... anyway im not here to change your opinion, this was a nice discussion tho!

for the last time too, because i will basically just repeat what i said all the way back from the beginning because you still don’t seem to understand anything that i’ve said no matter how many times i say it… ml avoiding mc is not him having an attitude, ml having an attitude is him snapping off at mc. you’ve reread the series yet you keep skipping off this part for some reason? AGAIN, do you seriously think mc would be worked up for no reason? reread chapter 13 if the point is still not getting across. and also, as you’ve said ml only acted like that towards mc so he could satisfy the mc; meaning obviously to mc they’ve gotten closer and when ml assaulted mc everything that mc worked for was gone so he was TRYING TO FIX THINGS SO HE COULD BRING THAT OLD MC BACK. wdym there’s nothing to fix when ml is obviously avoiding mc knowing that they literally live in the same roof? ml is mc’s only family, it’s only natural to fix things and make up when you argue with your family and that’s what mc thinks. are you even sure you understand mc’s situation because your bias towards the ml is a bit too much now, even admitting the fact that you excluded ml being an assaulter just so you could say he’s not a villain when no one here is saying he is one. and how can you say he’s 100% guilty when mc said that them sleeping together is not a big deal and his first reaction was to feel sad about it. not think about how he shouldn't even consider that as their first time cause AGAIN, he assaulted him. his reactions from the manhwa i read is where i get my opinions about him from. i don’t just make shit up in my head like what you’re thinking. and if you really think he regrets it 100%, why won’t he come out to mc and tell him the whole thing that happened? when he apologized, mc immediately rebuked his apology because mc doesn’t remember the whole thing and instead of mc receiving an apology it was him who gave an apology. and ml stayed quiet. they were fine initially after that and then all of a sudden he started avoiding mc once again because why? now that he has seen mc in his vulnerable state he gets turned on at the sight of him being naked? reread chapter 10. if he really is regretting what he did, the least thing he could do is come clean with it. i understand that he has the short end of the stick because of his feelings for mc, but there many ways where he could avoid mc while still being nice about it. and before you say how will he do that and ridicule me once again, think outside of the box and leave your bias out for once. ml has been distant towards mc from the beginning yet he was still respectful about it. instead of taking up more work hours without warning your family, making them worried, you can at least still go home and show up once in a while and still go non verbal. he has the ability to do everything in the nicest way possible yet he chose to be cruel and insensitive towards the only person who cares about him. he’s ungrateful for 1, assaulting the mc. 2, letting the mc think it was his fault and apologize for no reason. 3, making the mc worry and tell him straight to his face that he IS avoiding him. i don’t even dislike the ml what i dislike is how he is ACTING right now and i know in the future chapters he’ll at least have a redemption for assaulting mc (hopefully). two things can be true at once, he’s had a rough past but that is not a reason for him to act like this towards the mc. you read this manhwa with a clear mind yet you think mc is not receiving an unfair treatment right now? when all his life all he’s ever done is to give ml the world, to live a comfortable life and to have a good relationship with ml? yet what is going on with mc now? using your perspective, he’s not fixing things since there is nothing to fix so what is he doing chasing the ml around for? is mc even aware ml assaulted him and he did not consent to have ml’s dick inserted in his ass? do YOU think all of this is fair?

Yes i do think its fair cause MC is not entitled to ML. MC is the one who considers Ml family not the other way around. Mc is able to feel how he feels, ML should've apologized for what happened 100% OBVIOUSLY but MC is AWARE of what happened. MC apologized for putting ML in that predicament (being around him while rutting) imma be honest i only skimmed what you replied with cause i am unfortunately not reading all of that at the moment cause i have a paper to write but ill be back to properly respond. You dont need to reiterate anything you've already said your piece and i disagree. Mc and Ml are written realistically, most ppl would avoid the person they're in an awkward situation with and its not like ML has had really any positive influences to talk abt shit with cause everytime he tries to talk to mc he shuts it down and he was literally raised by an abuser. im not excusing MLs SA im just saying what the situation is. MC is NOT MLs family. ML doesnt see him as family nor are they related that is only smth Mc decided he wanted. Honestly if i Saed the person closet to me (which id never) I'd do everything in my power to make sure they would never have to see my face again, so i find that ots pretty on brand for ml to avoid mc. MC is aware of what ML did bc ML is a beta its not like he was heavily influenced by the pheromones. There was nothing keeping him from leaving besides being a bit drunk Mc just writes it off as an accident but yeah hes aware of it. Also Ml is not cruel in the slightest if this is your idea of "bad attitude" you must Loathe every BL you read. Mc is VERY distant and wants to be as less of a bother he can be, i think at least that much is obvious. You're entitled to your opinion and im entitled to mine; you think Ml is being an asshat rn, and i disagree. Thats all there is to it

Also none of the things you listen go under the label of being "ungrateful" besides the SA which was a completely selfish and disgusting act. Im leaving my bias out of it i acknowledged it as first for the sake of keeping this discussion peaceful, and i have never once ridiculed you and im sorry you feel that way. And again no i dont think hes fixing anything cause again theres nothing to fix hes trying to bring back what he was comfortable with. In my op Mc chases after Ml bc he feels as if Ml is not a capable adult and yes he is worried abt someone he considers family

And feeling regretful doesnt get rid of sexual feelings btw! The same could be said abt mc, mc wishes it didnt happen but he literally jerked off at the thought of it again

and ml is not a normal beta actually! mc even says so and is seemingly aware that despite being a beta ml is sensitive to pheromones! and you really did just skim through what i said because you still seem to not get my point? I have stated multiple times that i am looking through mc’s point of view, you think i’m mischaracterizing ml by saying he’s ungrateful but you don’t think it’s mischaracterizing to go as far as to say that mc trying to fix things is his own selfish desire… i’m starting to think it’s you who dislikes the mc. i won’t be repeating everything that i’ve said because it’s now your decision to be close minded about assaulters and assault victims so i’m out of that now. but one thing that i will point out is how fucked your opinions is about assault, you saying you acknowledge it and how disgusting of an act is it yet is going so far to exclude such an act just so you could defend his character is fucked. if you really acknowledge it, it shouldn’t even be a question why i see ml that way. and do you know how disgusting it sounds because imagine i was assaulted in my sleep by the people who i consider as my family and i’d be waking without an inch of knowing what happened to my body? it’s fucked up. no matter how disgusting of an act it was to be assaulted while being unconscious, the victims still has the rights to know what happened to them and their body because what happened to them is a crime against them. ml being raised by an abuser is not an excuse to any of his actions, we SHOULDN’T make excuses about someone assaulting someone in the first place. you’re right about ml being written realistically, he acted just like any other criminals in real life– running away from their crimes instead of owning up from their mistakes and on the people they have done wrong. truly fucked.

Real quick. You need to learn the difference fast that unconscious is NOT the same thing as inebriated. MC was not unconscious.

In my mind, you’re also defending an assaulter. It’s alphas fault in other manhwa when they lose control during their rut and yet MC does not hold any blame for losing control during his rut and actively SAing ML, someone 6 years younger than him and who he has power and guardianship over? They were both victims of each other and I stand by that. Just because you mistook someone for someone else because you’re inebriated doesn’t mean that you forcing yourself on them, kissing them and holding them down despite them crying is not SA. Plain and simple.

You are not a good person. You need to get through your thick skull that MC was not UNCONSCIOUS, so stop using that word. He was INEBRIATED because of his rut. And he still, even though he was inebriated, is an assaulter. They both SAd one another. The fact that you go on this huge long rant about how someone dismissing SA to defend someone’s character when that’s exactly what you’re doing for the MC. You are actively harmful to SA victims because you are completely dismissing the fact that someone who tops/men in straight relationships can be assaulted. MC SAd ML. ML SAd MC. Two facts that you can’t just choose one and ignore the other. “We SHOULDN’T make excuses about someone assaulting someone in the first place.” And that’s exactly what you’re doing for MC. Gross.

as if someone who admitted their bias towards another character who’s an assaulter is any better. if you had the time to read my whole rant, you should also use that time of yours to comprehend it. at one point, i’m pretty sure i also pointed out how mc was forceful to ml. at what point did i make any excuses to that? you had the time to read everything yet you somewhat skipped the parts where i kept pointing out how mc is unconscious and is not aware of what is happening, he was the one who made the first move on mc and like you said, he is intoxicated so he was not aware who he is. ml could’ve saved himself from being assaulted any further, if he had the strength to bring mc to the bed room, i’m pretty sure he also has the strength to leave the house. he knew well that mc is not in the right state of mind and that’s what mc remembers too, what mc remembers is that he forced himself to ml and that is what happened leading to him apologizing which is the right thing to do, owning up to his mistakes. but did ml ever did the same thing? they both did each other wrong yet their power against each other is still imbalanced, and that’s what i’m pointing out. my first response to op was literally me agreeing with them since in their first comment was how they pointed out how it was mc who assaulted ml first. reread my whole rant and comprehend it.

the fact that you people would go through such lengths just to defend ml’s actions is disgusting also. like i’ve said before, two things can be true at once. to act so hostile towards people who are actively pointing out a characters flaws is ridiculous let’s lay out some facts here since y’all are so afraid of being educated. mc was the first one to assault ml, and my response to that was that i agreed so go read my replies once again before y’all start barking through your ass once again. mc was intoxicated since you’re allergic to the word unconscious for some reason because apparently mc is a disgusting animal here along with the people who are siding with the mc, now being intoxicated is no excuse to him assaulting ml– which is why i, once again, agreed to op. and ml at that time was also drunk, but he’s not intoxicated enough to not remember where mc’s pills are. AGAIN, mc was intoxicated and had no control over his actions, all he wants is to relieve himself so he assaulted ml. TO WHICH I AGAIN AGREED TO. and ml is aware of that, he was aware that mc is not in his right state of mind since mc is calling someone elses name, AGAIN, he was strong enough to take mc to the bed so why is he not strong enough to walk out and leave? instead of doing that exactly, he brought him to the bed and started getting on with mc. WHICH IS ALSO ASSAULT. now i don’t even think i have to explain this part once again because i have explained this multiple times already but do i also have to explain in great details how mc assaulted ml just so you brain dead people would understand it? the difference between the two is so contrasting, if mc can apologize and own up to his mistakes, why can’t ml do the same? now do you get my point after being spoon fed? what, should i bump and highlight every replies where i agreed and pointed out how it was mc who assaulted ml first? y’all would really go through lengths just to justify a man’s actions and it’s so ridiculous how i have been trying to be respectful the whole time because it’s just so hard to talk to people who can’t understand that BOTH CAN HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME. just because i hate the other does not mean i favor the other. you talk as if you’re any better for all the SA victims, when you get so butthurt when it’s pointed out how the character you like is an assaulter. and yes, i do know that an apology is not enough to compensate for assaulting someone– but that’s better than assaulting someone when they’re intoxicated and not let your victim know what did they do to their body. god forbid someone points out the nuances of the situation.

Shame on you for calling someone gross just because someone pointed out how ML is an assaulter. It’s embarrassing on your part on how hostile can you be towards someone when their first response is literally them agreeing with MC almost forcing ML into intercourse, just because OP is speaking for MC does not mean he fully supports MC’s actions. Don’t talk as if you’re any better for SA victims. I’m someone who’s been assaulted while i’m inebriated, and you could say that i remember some parts where i did go along with person who’s assaulting me. It was one of the most awful memories i have and to this day i still don’t remember the full details on what happened, all i know is that we were left in that room all alone. I was drunk, and he was not. You’re disgusting for thinking that you have the rights to speak for all Sexual assault victims, ML had the choice to leave and yet he didn’t. What he did should not be excused. I agree with OP, the least thing ML could’ve done was to apologize like what MC did because they were both victims yet for some reason only one of them has the back bone to apologize. Please have some shame before you start labeling people as “harmful” to SA victims when you yourself is harmful as you are.

Girl you keep saying im excusing it. I was SAes too, its disgustingly common. And ive said time and time again Im NOT excusing it which is why ive said previously if you dont like ML for that ITS FINE. I didnt need to know your life story abt it cause its unnecessary sorry that we share the same experience tho. Im talking and the MC and MLs FEELINGS rn abt their RELATIONSHIP. And yes mc IS trying to make up for a selfish reason that doesn't take away from the fact he was violated... you're not seeing this from a 3rd pov instead you're inflicting YOUR personal experiences on these characters and that's why we can't have a decent convo. I acknowledged everything we've talked abt and agreed with most of it i just DON'T AGREE ml is UNGRATEFUL gahdamn. Read and COMPREHEND what I'm saying

GIRL WTF ARE YOU ON? i sympathize with ML and admitted bias cause i feel BAD for his situation i NEVER excused his actions. Do NOT relate me with an assaulter which BOTH mc and ML are. Tf is wrong with you

I’m pretty sure it’s you who’s not comprehending it. I’ve been following your argument for days now and OP has been explaining their point very well. If a lot of people can understand OP’s point, why can’t some of can? Reread what OP said, they never that they are an SA victim. OP gave you a scenario which is why in the sentence they used “IMAGINE”. You don’t to go through such lengths just because a lot of people doesn’t like ML’s actions, this doesn’t even have to be an argument.