you do not know what the definition of grooming is.
Fr
Did u not read the story??????????
Their relationship does give me an ick. But the bottom did not raise his top with any intention of having relationship with him later. He did not have any unpure thought about the kid. That the kid grew feelings for him is completely out of his control. So it is not grooming.
Mhm plus their growth is not the same. He's a fuckin dragon
didn't mean to make people pressed. i think the rate at which he kinda "accepted" sexual acts was alarming though. like sure not explicit grooming, but it was reasonable to question him on a subconscious lvl ngl
"There she is, officer, another fool"
Nah bro, ur right. Ppl r just caught up in semantics. Like yh sure the mc technically didn't groom the ml but what he did sure was strange as shit and ppl know what u mean. And I see u ppl saying "the ml wasn't a child bc he's a dragon" and I strongly disagree. Firstly, the ml rlly is young. Bro literally was freshly born when he entered that village so he was probs max a year old when mc met him (and considering how long dragons live that would be even more of a child). Secondly, the ml acts and thinks like a child. U cannot tell me u read the 1st sex scene between the mc and ml in their 1st life and didn't feel uncomfortable bc i would not belive u. That shit was giving undercover (and barely at that) pedo bait. Anyway, as i said, I think ur right op so stand ur ground and btw this is coming from someone who did like this
omg thx u! i was debating taking down the post if it just made too many ppl upset bc i may have just genuinely misread, but i couldn't shake the strangeness of their relationship after seeing their first life. but yea, it may not have been outright stages of grooming, but during their second proposal ml literally said he saw him as a father, brother, and lover (if i remember correctly) like it was giving twilight and it was weirddd but mc wasn't off-putted by that.
It's not just you. When their past came out, I dropped it bc I didn't like that narrative direction of cared for x caregiver. But the people who don't see it as that is reading with their eyes closed. I'm all for weird and taboo stories, but this was all over the place and discombobulating. Like, ML is saying "no, you're a kid" or "I'm like a father/brother to you" and then just goes along with sleeping with him.
Who groomed who?
Yeah that part when he said "brother and father" first thing I said was "yeah, don't ever say that up again."
i'd say the mc "groomed" (i'll use this lightly to be cautious of the obvious semantic issue people are arguing against) the ml. even if it was an unintentional and innocent beginning on the mcs part bc obvi he doesn't have access to the internet which would identify the stages of grooming (ex. isolation, only trusting individual, etc.) he created an environment where he was all that the ml would know in a positive light. even the mc recognized this when he "tried" to reject mls confession, claiming ml was mistaking love for affection. my main problem/argument lies with the mcs quickness to accept the ml's sexual advances (though i also skimmed this part bc it made me uncomfortable since he was just a kid a few days ago, but maybe he put up more of a defense than i remember) and the fact that the ml, although was in an adult body, was still a child regardless of being a dragon. he aged like a normal human and understood himself as such until that point. maybe this could've been better if the time frame was explained more on when they became official lovers, or didn't engage in sexual acts so soon. but it still stands the mc was a bit of a pedo, whether explicit or implicit grooming was at work. if my terminology upsetted anyone i can understand that and apologize. i had just went into this story believing it was going to be a cute relationship due to the comments, but it turned out to be a bit alarming instead
No, I'm not upset. I can see a where you're coming and I do agree the sex was kinda sudden but it was expected based on how the story was going thus far. I do think the use of "Grooming" is rather harsh since there were multiple times he tried pushing him to travel and meet people just in case a day comes when MC dies. However, I do think once ML transformed into someone more "appealing", it could've also played a part in accepting him out of pressure mix with curiosity.
Even after the first night, MC did continue to push ML towards other things. MC should've explained things better or started explaining birds and bees when ML looked like a teen.
Now, why people don't see it as grooming could be because of 2 things:
Pressure from ML and Mythical Creature.
In Myths, Mythical Creatures tend to have their own rules, so to speak. Even if he was raised as a human, he mimicked what he saw to pass as one. That's why he had random growth spurts. Example: Sun Wukong was a monkey born from a rock egg and already knew how to speak and pray to the 4 winds minutes after being born. There are many others but you'd be reading for a long time.
With that in the back of many's head, You don't really acknowledge him as a human, even if he pass as one. You simply expect Mythical shenanigans that's gonna happen.
ML also doesn't take no for an answer. Especially when he REALLY wants to. There's many examples within the story to prove this case. I'm actually surprised no one used "coercion" since that took place as well. ML, despite his mindset, is acutely aware of what he's doing since it's his instincts. In Myths, its not uncommon for couples to be related (Amataratsu and Suzano are siblings and married with kids, and many others. Though, I do not think any married their parent...) So, him saying teacher brother mentor (father...) would probably make sense in the hevens bureaucracy, not on Earth. Slipped a bit, back to pressure.
MLs first thing he did was forced himself on MC 2nd epsiode (or 3rd. And again, not many are talking about that.) By now, ML should have more control over himself, but he doesn't. When he doesn't get what he wants, he pouts and takes what he wants without much thought about the situation his partner's in. With all that (and more), other readers wouldn't see this as grooming at all. I do think a second read without rose-colored glasses would help (me) to Full understand the other side!
Sorry this was long!
Not at all! I really appreciate this breakdown actually! I can see where the separation of mystical elements and pressure makes the term less applicable. They're both honestly odd at the end of it and my main goal was to open up a discussion about this to see if i was the only one who read their relationship as bit disturbing or if ppl were just seeing things i missed. again, no one really talked abt this side of the story when i had gone thru the comments. ofc i didn't give a whole paragraph about my reasoning from the get-go (my mistake), but i simply think this wasn't my cup of tea which tends to be the case with mythology that involves incest and the sorts. not to dismiss mythology itself since it is an important aspect in many cultures and history, but two things can be true at once which would bring up a larger discussion not pertinent to this one. If you do decide to do a reread, I would love to know any additional opinions/thoughts you form!
Thank you very much for the conversation! Mythology is...wild to say the least. But as you said, it shapes one's society and history.
I do find it very strange why most are very focused on the "grooming" aspect when it's more so coercion imo. I think because of how ML acts later on (acting like a child) and the fact that both have a masculine figure instead of one have a feminine shape. The reason I think this is because of another Manwha/BL "Jinx".
In Jinx, Dan and Jaekyung have much more strained relationship as both as low EQ. However, in the beginning, Dan was facing financial difficulties which led him to Jaekyung. Jaekyung hired Dan as his Physical Therapist then offered extra incentives in exchange for sexual favors. Dan wasn't forced or anything, but people acknowledge that he was coerced into accepting because of how bad it is. Then again, Dan has a more feminine look to him, which makes people more sorry for him (despite Dan being older).
Hyo-Un would always hold MC and express his feelings chance he gets even though MC has rejected him (gently). After constantly pushing and pushing, MC relented and gave in because of the pressure. But this isn't seen as coercion. I think because both have masculine features, the next thing to look at is "age gap" which leads to readers calling him "pedo" and "groomer".
This all guesses though. But yeah, in Ancient Greece, Pedophilia was actually practiced and the term is origin there, so I don't blame yeah for being weirded out lol
(BTW, there is, in fact, a parent/child relationship in myth. Gaia and Oranos. Gaia created Oranos and then married him. Sky to her Earth).
I'd go a step further than coercion tbh. The 1st time the mc meets the ml, the ml straight up SAs him. As for the reason y almost nobody mentions this, yh it kinda has to do w the mc being more masculine, but even in bl stories where the uke is feminine it's pretty rare for ppl to acknowledge there's rape/SA (even in the jinx comment section there's a bunch of ppl denying it). I think the more key reason is rape culture in general. A lot of ppl think men can't be raped (irl at least) and often doubt surviours or blame them and say they actually enjoyed it. In the manhwa the mc ends up "enjoying" it so they kinda just move past it.
As for ppl mentioning grooming and pedophila more often, it's bc it's more immediately obvious. The ml was a child in the mc's care w a distrust of other ppl and his thinking retains this childishness even when he transforms into an adult. Furthermore, I feel like pedophilia is just more frowned upon than rape (e.g. in prisons pedos get attacked but I haven't heard the same abt rapists). Also, the mythology basis of the story kinda falls flat as an explanation for y this was included bc we don't live in ancient times and the story isn't based on a particular myth, like that egyptian mythology one w set and horus that I forgot the name of, so the author made a conscious choice to include SA and weird interactions w children vibes. Like, if it was based on an actual myth, I'd get it bc sanitisation of history and culture is bad but I just don't see a reason for this story, tho it was clear this was how it was gonna go down.
I see. I would have to agree on your mythology take for this story, this is a bit more modern for that type of "justification" to apply. i haven't personally read jinx (& don't plan to), but i do hate when rape/non-con is just overlooked and normalized. i actually have heard that rapists are frowned upon in prison (rightfully so), but in more mainstream media it's overlooked and covered up unfortunately. i also agree that appearance does play a role in people's opinions when it really shouldn't. so yeah, i'd say their relationship is all sorts of wrong and if anyone has genuine healthy bl recommendations, pls share!!
Titan's Bride (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Yeah, straight up. It does suck that not many see that at all or acknowledge because of the physique. I do feel like more people point it out in Jinx though (it's almost all the talk about. That and how Jaekyung is a POS). I wonder if it also has to do with separation. I know most people can separation fantasy from reality. I wonder if most turn a blind eye because they know it's not "real" (storywise), but regardless of reality and fiction, there are some lines that people will not allow to be crossed. That's me, though.
so we're just going to ignore he lowkey groomed him??