God sure he probably wouldn't have picked up an ugly kid. But it was still an act of kindness, just not the saint kind. Kindness doesn't have to be 100% selfless to be real. Dude brought him home and literally expected nothing from him. Oh and he clearly knows the boy feels indebted and is trying to do everything he can to stay. But u twisting it into him using that to manipulate that boy is nuts. Literally making up your own narrative of his intentions.
He is morally grey at best. He does a good thing (helping jiho), but once it got emotionally complicated, he chose to stay distant instead of clearing things up cuz he simply did not see it as his responsibility. That’s not evil, but it’s definitely not innocent either. Don't rewrite the story to make him a predator when the mf is clearly just emotionally unavailable. U probably wont change your mind anyway. Goodbye
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely which I think you did. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, where it takes away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not when he’s the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible since the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation while at the same time making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors were opened right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to rationalize why the uke was like that to him and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
(If, at this point, you go on and say that the uke might be attempting to do some grooming but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended. If you say or think that, this reply and your reply to my previous one focuses more on the seme. If you want something about whether this is attempted grooming, go on and read again my previous reply since I”ve addressed the uke’s actions more on that.)
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that shows to me that you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, you probably won’t believe and even try to understand what I’m trying to say. With how you point out things, I’m pretty sure you’re just picking the things in my reply to argue about and not reading it and analyzing it word for word and then later on, coming to a conclusion when a sufficient amount of neurons on your brain properly make connections.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, and would also take away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible because the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation but doesn’t while at the same time, making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
(If, and only if at this point of reading, you think it’s attempted grooming or grooming one-sidedly from the uke but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended, since it’s obvious at this point of my reply that the seme is awfully aware of things, then what’s the point of all those earlier arguments you made where you view the seme’s action as being influenced by uke because he’s being manipulated and all that he does is not really to his own accord? Also, if you want something that focuses more on the uke’s action, read my previous reply properly. There’s a lot more of it in there. This focuses more on the seme’s part even if there are bits of what the uke did in here since your reply to my previous reply addresses the way the seme is.)
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors and possibilities were opened and there right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to question why the uke was like that to him and he finds it weird, unusual, and something that doesn’t make sense based on how he grew up, and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that. So you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, I don’t believe you even try to understand what I’m trying to get across to you. With how you reply and the things you are pointing out, I’m assuming you’re just picking things on my replies to talk about without reading and understanding the whole thing properly, word for word, and then letting your neurons make connections in your brain so that you come with a proper conclusion.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just do be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, and would also take away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible because the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation but doesn’t while at the same time, making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
(If, and only if at this point of reading, you think it’s attempted grooming or grooming one-sidedly from the uke but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended, since it’s obvious at this point of my reply that the seme is awfully aware of things, then what’s the point of all those earlier arguments you made where you view the seme’s action as being influenced by uke because he’s being manipulated and all that he does is not really to his own accord? Also, if you want something that focuses more on the uke’s action, read my previous reply properly. There’s a lot more of it in there. This focuses more on the seme’s part even if there are bits of what the uke did in here since your reply to my previous reply addresses the way the seme is.)
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors and possibilities were opened and there right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to question why the uke was like that to him and he finds it weird, unusual, and something that doesn’t make sense based on how he grew up, and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that. So you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, I don’t believe you even try to understand what I’m trying to get across to you. With how you reply and the things you are pointing out, I’m assuming you’re just picking things on my replies to talk about without reading and understanding the whole thing properly, word for word, and then letting your neurons make connections in your brain so that you come with a proper conclusion.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just do be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, and would also take away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible because the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation but doesn’t while at the same time, making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
(If, and only if at this point of reading, you think it’s attempted grooming or grooming one-sidedly from the uke but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended, since it’s obvious at this point of my reply that the seme is awfully aware of things, then what’s the point of all those earlier arguments you made where you view the seme’s action as being influenced by uke because he’s being manipulated and all that he does is not really to his own accord? Also, if you want something that focuses more on the uke’s action, read my previous reply properly. There’s a lot more of it in there. This focuses more on the seme’s part even if there are bits of what the uke did in here since your reply to my previous reply addresses the way the seme is.)
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors and possibilities were opened and there right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to question why the uke was like that to him and he finds it weird, unusual, and something that doesn’t make sense based on how he grew up, and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that. So you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, I don’t believe you even try to understand what I’m trying to get across to you. With how you reply and the things you are pointing out, I’m assuming you’re just picking things on my replies to talk about without reading and understanding the whole thing properly, word for word, and then letting your neurons make connections in your brain so that you come with a proper conclusion.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just do be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, and would also take away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible because the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation but doesn’t while at the same time, making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
(If, and only if at this point of reading, you think it’s attempted grooming or grooming one-sidedly from the uke but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended, since it’s obvious at this point of my reply that the seme is awfully aware of things, then what’s the point of all those earlier arguments you made where you view the seme’s action as being influenced by uke because he’s being manipulated and all that he does is not really to his own accord? Also, if you want something that focuses more on the uke’s action, read my previous reply properly. There’s a lot more of it in there. This focuses more on the seme’s part even if there are bits of what the uke did in here since your reply to my previous reply addresses the way the seme is.)
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors and possibilities were opened and there right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to question why the uke was like that to him and he finds it weird, unusual, and something that doesn’t make sense based on how he grew up, and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that. So you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, I don’t believe you even try to understand what I’m trying to get across to you. With how you reply and the things you are pointing out, I’m assuming you’re just picking things on my replies to talk about without reading and understanding the whole thing properly, word for word, and then letting your neurons make connections in your brain so that you come with a proper conclusion.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just do be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
You are missing the point of what grooming actually is. And you’d be throwing away your morals and even your education if you didn’t say this is grooming? This is not about what the uke did not being wrong, I’ve addressed this. This is about it being a completely different issue/issues that is not grooming. This is a lot of different things all at once that it takes effort how to describe them so you used ‘grooming’ because it comes close.
You’re saying emotional manipulation happens every chapter but I hope you’ve read my last reply entirely. You’ve pointed out the flirting and stares that I noted, saying that the uke do it frequently and ‘normalizing’ it in their relationship. I pointed out in my last reply that the uke wasn’t normalizing it but I think what you’re trying to say in opposition to what I’ve said is that he was normalizing by constantly doing it in a sense that you get used to it thus it feels normal. By not normalizing it, what I mean is him rationalizing his action (through words) for the seme to not find fault at what he’s doing. Flirting and staring as well as providing pretty much everything the seme needs, you view it as manipulation, emotional manipulation, because it influences the seme’s behaviours and emotions and to build trust? Is persuasion not a thing? Because if this is “manipulation”, it would be deceptive, it would be unfair, and would also take away a person’s self-governance, and it should be flying under the radar but the uke here is being awfully obvious. He’s not blind, he’s a prosecutor, he can see the seme’s reactions to what he’s saying, to what he’s doing. Being this intentionally obvious does not count as manipulation. Manipulation is when a person is pulling the strings, not the one being on stage. I’m not saying it’s right, things are not black and white, It’s a different thing from manipulation.
And I completely disagree that the purpose of those stares was to create an opening for the seme to know that a sexual relationship is possible because the seme can see it. If that’s how you interpreted things and at the same time, you also said those stares are part of the emotional manipulation, you’re saying two things that contradicts each other. A ‘manipulation’ that should use deception to count as manipulation but doesn’t while at the same time, making it so obvious? Make it make sense. And haven’t you noticed the seme’s behaviour? He knows that their relationship can escalate into anything, right from the start, right before those stares since he stated that he believes, way before he was picked up by the uke on the streets, that everything in the world is a give and take, transactional.
(If, and only if at this point of reading, you think it’s attempted grooming or grooming one-sidedly from the uke but it’s just not affecting the seme as intended, since it’s obvious at this point of my reply that the seme is awfully aware of things, then what’s the point of all those earlier arguments you made where you view the seme’s action as being influenced by uke because he’s being manipulated and all that he does is not really to his own accord? Also, if you want something that focuses more on the uke’s action, read my previous reply properly. There’s a lot more of it in there. This focuses more on the seme’s part even if there are bits of what the uke did in here since your reply to my previous reply addresses the way the seme is.)
Ever since the story began, anything can happen to him if he took a stranger’s help, and he knows that. There’s no point in creating an opening, all sorts of doors and possibilities were opened and there right from the start. There’s no psychological confusion since he was always trying to question why the uke was like that to him and he finds it weird, unusual, and something that doesn’t make sense based on how he grew up, and that alone tells you there’s no mental confusion happening.
About the part where you stated that the seme is the perfect candidate for a person to manipulate and the adult, the uke, didn’t need to tell the seme that what he’s doing is fine since you said he already accepted it and know that most human relationships are transactional. Aren’t you contradicting yourself? There’s no point to groom then, the views of the seme is already twisted as it is due to his past, before he even met the uke. The point of grooming based on its definition is to blur lines. There are no lines to blur, it’s already clear right from the start where those lines sit. For the nth time, the issue are a lot of different things, not grooming.
You go saying that the safety he gained was false. It’s clear to the seme that there’s no such thing as safety in their relationship when it started, it can be so fleeting since he already experienced horrible things in the past. It’s apparent, early in the story, that he’s aware that the uke might be no different. He knows what’s happening, that it’s weird and unusual but that doesn’t mean it’s because there’s grooming (I hope while reading this, you keep in your head what grooming’s definition is).
This statement: “The adult knew mc felt personally indebted but truly did nothing much to help.” I agree with it 100% if you’re talking about easing his emotional burdens and saying that the seme doesn’t need to feel burdened.
But this: “He wanted him to keep feeling that way, so mc behavior relied on the mc’s mood/behavior to ensure the adult is happy with him. the child makes the first move and made to believe it was by his own accord.”
The first sentence is what I agree on but that, again, is a completely different thing (or issue, it depends on what the uke’s intention for that is) and not grooming. Why?
Let me make a checklist:
* Manipulation - Not there (I’ve already addressed how the things the uke did barely count as manipulation and is something else.)
* Coercion - Not there (Coercion refers to the act of forcing someone to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, often through threats or intimidation. So is it something the seme wouldn’t do? The seme is down for anything consciously and of sound mind since he’s not in delirium as addressed earlier.)
* Exploitation - Not there (Exploitation is the act of selfishly taking advantage of someone or a group of people in order to profit from them or otherwise benefit oneself. Was it to the uke’s benefit? Yes since as I’ve addressed in my previous reply that the uke was seemingly treating the seme like an object for his amusement. But is it ‘selfishly’ where he doesn’t take the other person into consideration? No. He provides for the seme. It’s a give and take, transactional, business-like.)
* Using force - Not there (No physical, no emotional, and no mental forcing that took place. The seme didn’t experienced violence to feel something for the uke. The seme was not treated and instructed to feel in a certain way. The seme was not gaslighted into thinking things.)
This simple checklist shows the things I’m really trying to get across to you by what I mean of the meaning of ‘grooming’.
This line right here: “Basically he took advantage of the kid’s vulnerability and all his actions were made so the kid could be compliant.” 100% agree but that alone doesn’t mean grooming and this is the whole point why we are even arguing about this seriously. Taking advantage doesn’t necessarily mean ‘grooming’, it depends on HOW taking advantage was executed.
After that part, from the next stuff and all that. So you kinda get what grooming is after all. The problem here is you misusing it because you misunderstood (and also misused) the things that makes up what grooming is, especially manipulation.
You said your comment got cut off but I’m pretty sure you just have something to say that I have something to say and the insufferable process repeats since at this point, I don’t believe you even try to understand what I’m trying to get across to you. With how you reply and the things you are pointing out, I’m assuming you’re just picking things on my replies to talk about without reading and understanding the whole thing properly, word for word, and then letting your neurons make connections in your brain so that you come with a proper conclusion.
I like how morally strong you are and I can feel that right from the start. One of the problem probably lies with how you view my intentions and the other person in this thread’s intentions are. We, at least I, am not saying that this is right. Again, these are issues that is just different from grooming.
Are we saying that you (by you, I mean the people that might be reading this and also the person I’m replying to) should just do be gullible, innocent, unsuspecting, etc. when facing a situation similar to the uke? Definitely not since what makes a situation like that, those things are issues we recognize. And definitely don’t fall into grooming schemes, since it’s a lot worse than what the uke did to the seme and what he did can already be considered one of the worst.
The misuse of words, that’s what we are in opposition of and that’s it, nothing else. We even went so far, especially me, as being hyper analytical. Call it pettiness, I’m fine with that since I’m so sick of seeing people throw words that doesn’t even fit the situation.
Damn, what’s the issue with mangago. My bad the replies got duplicated.
i agree. i was taken back at first. he definitely wasn't groomed but i would appreciate if he was not barely a minor bcs it would change absolutely nothing about the pace or have any real implications on the plot aside from a few lines of text so i was confused abr why tf author had to do this we already have so many of these disgusting shits
I’m on you on this. It’s pointless making the seme a minor when they first met, it’s only causing confusion in regards to what societal issues this story is presenting. And as you said, it wouldn’t even change much if that’s what the author decided to do.
tf are you talking about? you DO realise that they made it openly obvious in almost every chapter that the main character is a minor and grooming in general doesn’t have to be outright sexual tension. grooming involves a slow coercion and the fact that the ml brought home a woman to have sex with her and continued to speak sexually with her despite there being a minor in the room enough is disgusting, even if the mc had just freshly turned 18. you’re writing this massive paragraph and i read through the entire thing yet you’ve made no point or effort to even ‘explain’ to me how you think this isn’t grooming when it 100% is. google is going to have its own definition but many other sources, websites and experiences from people that may be in your own circle will tell you, this IS grooming. this has nothing to do with moral or ethical values because it’s disgusting either way. the idea of grooming and google will tell you this since you’re so adamant on telling me to whether it is or not, will tell you that grooming is a form of behaviour used by older people to establish an emotional connection with someone younger with the intention to lower their inhibitions to sexual behaviour. regardless of whether or not you think this is grooming or not, i could really care less. it’s disgusting behaviour either way. i also find it rude how, instead of really pointing out the fact that the ml had sex with a barely legal boy, you seem extremely adamant on correcting others and are telling ME that I’m trying to be correct?? that’s not the case at all and the fact that that’s even a point you’re trying to make, makes you’re entire comment of trying to correct others both egotistical and arrogant. if you’re going to correct, you need to see others points of views and not try to bring them down because this is NOT a case of whose right or wrong, its case of bringing awareness to the obvious issues with this webcomic - whether it’s grooming or not, that’s my opinion and I’ll stand by it. i understand what you may think and how you’ll tie it to other definitions online but at the end of the day, it’s predatory behaviour from the ml.
exactly dude, i’ve no idea why the other people here are so blatantly looking past the fact that, grooming comes in all shapes and forms. like you said, mc is easy manipulative because of his history with adults and is taken advantage of by the ml throughout flirtatious remarks and in another comment i wrote, he even had the audacity to try and continue orally pleasuring that woman despite there being a barley legal boy in the room, and at the time, he had still technically thought that the mc was a minor. the other people in the replies are SO adamant on being correct that they’re just excusing this disgusting behaviour at this point.
i think we’d both be better off never reading this story ever again and just muting the replies LOL
Damn, you’re incorrigible if despite reading all that (not brushing off everything someone said just because they oppose your views and interpretation), you still think and say things like that. Grooming comes in all forms but forms that FIT ITS DESCRIPTION, not forms that you just thought passes as grooming and is not actually grooming.
Also, I thought it was clear from all those replies from me that this is/are another issue/s all at once and is not grooming. And you are not throwing away your morals just because you say this isn’t grooming. Saying this isn’t grooming DOESN’T EQUATE to saying this is right. How simple right? Your replies seem and that other person seem to stem from the misunderstanding the whole point why people even opposed you guys.
You don’t read properly, you don’t properly analyze objectively without some bias floating around your head, and you are saying stuff like we are some vile shits who have no morals. Damn, the level of cognitive dissonance in this thread. I didn’t even know comprehension this level even exist. Tried to be as civil as possible about this but you, and that other person are just hopeless and insufferable in this conversation thinking what you are saying is right (with very obvious bias and twisting and escalating misinterpretation of things). You are just trying to come off as the ones who makes the right point. You probably even think you make the right point.
I’m done with this. If even with all those efforts, you still are in square one of this whole thing, then I don’t know what will even make you understand. Go believe your delusions then. Bye.
I’m sorry but is this not grooming?????