again, you guys are IMPLYING he’s one. you act as if he’s a puppet with no agency. you mistaken his ignorance for absolvement. i see guwon as grey, but in not going to disregard his actions like your guys do. i can critique him & still like him lol.
right… so what does that tell you about guwon? exactly what i’ve been saying about him this whole time. he’s not a puppet.
ok, i’ll remember this conversation when the tables turn for guwon. i expect no grace for him even if it’s justified. i’m not saying you do everything out of the kindness of your heart, but nuance is a necessity for survival. if you can’t understand that, then idk what to tell you.
- agreed. i’m glad we both can see that’s karma is definitely coming for guwon.
- this is where you’ve lost me lol. do you think trump is a yes man? does he not have agency? if trump is too extreme, what about biden? all political leaders have agency & the ability to make decisions. yes, they listen to what we tell them to do but not 100%. i mean it depends on what were aspiring to be within a system. these systems can only work if the people are also being supported. killing off your citizens for their mistakes doesn’t help the group grow.
- hm… you’re speculating they’re manipulating him with no proof.
- i don’t disagree that they all voted. i just think guwon being the leader means he can influence the group to take a different route. murder is extreme & it could result in his death or jinwoo being harmed if he’s not careful.
- not in this scenario. murder is at everybody’s doorstep. it’s like playing chess. but yes, i hope there are more kind people who join the group to balance things out.
- this was very peaceful. i enjoyed it. :) i respect your thoughts & beliefs. thank you for engaging with me.
let’s look at the definition of treason:
“betrayal of one's own country, specifically by levying war against it or giving aid and comfort to its enemies.”
so a father stealing medicine for his sick son is equivalent to him betraying & attacking the group? that’s quite extreme. stealing is bad yes, but it’s not treasonous. murder isn’t the only form of punishment & it shouldn’t be the first option. you’re jumping out the window here imo.
woah, calm down LMAOOO. i’m making an analogy here. social reform & education helps a group live longer than enacting fear & cruel punishment.
yes, they could afford it. their survival depends on it.
yeah, no. i can’t agree. i get what you’re saying, but i just can’t see murder being a good punishment for theft. plus, i’m confident guwon will slip up in the future… could you hold these same beliefs towards him once it’s time for him to be punished, even if the punishment is murder?
is guwon reasonable bc it’s an apocalypse or is he reasonable bc we see things through his eyes? if the author had shown guwon killing the father before we knew his personality & him falling in love with jinwoo, would we still feel the same way about him? only time will tell. how these things play out will tell me everything i need to know about the characters & the audience.
**TYPING IN CAPS SO YOU GET MY POINT ACROSS EACH ONE OF UR BS:
- no, you see things in black & white. i’ve been arguing about nuance for a while now. you’re implying cowardice. your words: - YEAH BECAUSE SAYING THAT A PERSON CAN BE BOTH A KILLER AND A VICTIM OF THE SYSTEM AT THE SAME TIME IS DEFO NOT TAKING IN THE CHARACTER AS A GRAY ONE, UNLIKE YOU WHO ONLY INSISTS THAT HE'S JUST A RUTHLESS KILLER AT THE END OF THE DAY LMAO
“I am saying people want change but they don't want to be accountable for the extremity to make those changes happen. People want salvation but from others not within themselves, that's why they're always looking for someone to look up to and use to blame when everything goes crashing down. They want peace and order but they do not want to enforce the penalties to make that peace and order happen.” -- INDIVIDUALLY, YES THAT IS COWARDICE, BUT AS A GROUP, THAT'S STRATEGIC PLANNING, WHICH AS I SAID IS WHAT THE TOWNSFOLK IS DOING SO FAR TO KEEP EVERYTHING AFLOAT- THEY DON'T CARE THAT ML SPECIFICALLY IS THE LEADER, THEY ONLY CARE THAT HE'S EFFECTIVE SO FAR, AND WILL ALWAYS BE IN ON IT FOR THE SURVIVAL OF THE GROUP, THEY DIDN'T ELECT HIM AS THE LEADER BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE'S LIKEABLE AND CHARISMATIC, RATHER BECAUSE HE IS WHAT WORKS IN THAT TYPE OF DEMENTED SITUATION
- ok, but guwon is not a victim. the only victims here are jinwoo (for now) & the children. guwon is a leader with agency. --- AGAIN, WHO SAID HE IS? POINT EXACTLY WHERE I SAID HE IS A VICTIM? HE ACTED THAT WAY BECAUSE HE IS WITH THE GROUP, THAT DOESN'T ABSOLVE HIM OF THE CRIME, THE SAME WAY ANY OTHER ONE OF THE GROUP MEMBERS DOES NOT ABSOLVE THEM OF THE DECISION EITHER- IT WAS A COLLECTIVE DECISION BY THE GROUP AND HIM.
- right, so when i’m saying that guwon can also be killed mercilessly, it supports my stance about forgiveness. if we’re not careful, they can justify murdering him for his mistakes. we need a silver lining here. -- WHAT SILVER LINING? I SAID MULTIPLE TIMES ALREADY, THE TOWN IS EXTREME BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE EXTREME, HE CAN BE KILLED IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY, BUT SINCE HIS EXISTENCE IS FAR MORE BENEFICIAL TO EVERYONE THAN HIS DEMISE, HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE YET.
- idc if he was the leader of prisoners, being a leader is a PRIVILEGE. it is not a right. do you hold this same belief for the english monarchy or trump? i don’t think you do. so why are you acting like guwon deserves special privileges? yes, it’s hard, but it’s still better to be at the top vs. the bottom. - WHO SAID IT'S A RIGHT? DID HE SAY IT'S A RIGHT? DID HE SHOW ANY INDICATION IN THE PLOT SO FAR THAT HE WANTED TO BE THE LEADER? IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO CLING TO HIM BECAUSE HE'S MOST LIKELY THE STRONGEST OUT OF EVERYONE, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT IN A LEADER, THE SAME WAY A COUNTRY WITH LOW MORALE WOULD WANT A CHARISMATIC LEADER TO AMP UP THEIR PATRIOTISM, OR A NATION THAT'S ALWAYS THE TARGET OF EXTERNAL ATTACKS WOULD WANT A LEADER WHO CAN MANUFACTURE WEAPONS TO DEFEND THEM TOO.
- you’re IMPLYING he’s innocent. you act as if guwon doesn’t have agency. no, guwon killed him bc it’s what they ALL wanted. don’t act like guwon didn’t want to either. it doesn’t matter if he looked him in the eye or waited until everybody voted for it, murder is murder. -WHEN DID WE SAY THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE AGENCY? I'M SAYING HE'S ACTING ACCORDINGLY BECAUSE HE BELONGS TO THE GROUP, AND HE MOST LIKELY HAVE THE SAME TENDENCIES TOO, OTHERWISE WHY WOULD HE STAY? HOWEVER, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KILLING SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A BLOODTHIRTY PSYCHOPATH WHO WANT TO SEE PEOPLE SUFFER, AND KILLING SOMEONE TO APPEASE WHAT THE GROUP WANTED, HAD THEY VOTED FOR THE GUY TO BE SPARED, DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE HE WOULD STILL CONTINUE TO KILL THE DUDE? WHAT WOULD BE A POINT IN THAT? HE DID IT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT EVERYONE WANTED, HE ACTED AS THEIR TRIGGER BUT THE ONE WHO PULLED IT WAS THE TOWNSFOLK- BOTH THE GUN AND THE SHOOTER ARE THE CAUSE OF DEATH, BUT IT COULD'VE BEEN AVOIDED HAD THE SHOOTER CHOSE NOT TO PULL IT FIRST.
- i get what you’re saying, but there’s levels to this stuff. taking extreme action never ends well. punishment, law & order, etc. must be well thought out & taken on a case by case basis. nothing is purely black & white. so, yes, guwon could make a different decision. he could be the voice of reason & help them see that. he’s the leader.- ARE YOU STILL NOT GETTING THE PICTURE? THE PEOPLE ARE DESPERATE TO SURVIVE, VOICE AND REASON TO WHAT? TO SPARE THE DUDE, AND THEN WHAT? HAVE OTHERS FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS? GIVING IN TO EMPATHY BY GIVING THE PEOPLE RESOURCES TO PEOPLE WAS ALREADY PROVEN TO BE A MISTAKE IN THEIR HISTORY, AN EFFECTIVE LEADER LEARNS FROM THESE TYPE OF ERRORS THAT'S WHY THEY GO THROUGH EXTREMITIES TO ENSURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. THESE ARE THE TYPE OF HEAVY DECISIONS THAT A REAL LEADER MUST MAKE IN ORDER TO ASSURE THAT THE MAJORITY WOULD STILL BENEFIT IN THE END, THAT'S WHY TAKING THIS ROLE IS NEVER A PRIVILEGE, SPECIALLY SINCE YOU'RE NOT GETTING EVEN A SINGLE CRAP OUT OF THE ROLE
- i never said you said that, i’m asking a question. i don’t disagree with your line of thinking here. - ALREADY ANSWERED THIS ONE, BOTH ARE A POSSIBILITY IN CASE HOUNDS TAKE UP LEADERSHIP, BUT SINCE THEY ARE A SUBSEQUENT GROUP OF PEOPLE AND THE TOWNSFOLK INSIDE THE WALLS ARE TOO, IT'S BOUND TO END IN CLASS DIVIDE.
- i mean the story is still developing, so i can’t say for sure. all i’m saying is that there’s a possibility in this happening to guwon if they decide go down that route. guwon could betray them, they could get sick of him, somebody could threaten his position or persuade the members to go against him, etc. the possibilities are endless. i only make this point bc guwon isn’t perfect & he’s going to want grace too in these scenarios. it’ll be hard for his peers to care when he didn’t extend grace to those he killed.-- IT WOULD BE HARD FOR THEM IF THEY DIDN'T WANT IT TOO- IT WOULD BE A CAUSE FOR STRIFE IF THEY CLEARLY VOTED FOR THE GUY TO BE SAVED BUT HE KILLED HIM ANYWAY. THEY WERE ALL ON IT, SO UNLESS THE ENTIRE GROUP IS GOING DOWN WITH HIM, HE'S NOT GOING TO GET PUNISHED (AGAIN, NOT SAYING HE DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED, BUT BECAUSE HE'S PLAYING FOR WHAT THE MAJORITY WANTS, HE IS SAFE)
- guwon is not a puppet. he is an active member within their society. leadership requires active engagement. idk why you’re acting like an apocalypse means EQ has to be thrown out the window altogether. humans are social creatures, they need it to survive. it’s how we’ve evolved as a species.-EXACTLY, THEM BEING SOCIAL AND BEING PART OF THE GROUP IS WHAT ALLOWS THEM TO SURVIVE VS TRYING TO MAKE IT ON THEIR OWN OUTSIDE THE TOWN. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE TAKING DRASTIC MEASURES TO KEEP THAT GROUP SAFE AND THRIVING EVEN IF IT MEANT KILLING OFF WHAT THEY REGARD AS "RATS" OR BAD APPLES BEFORE IT SPOILS THE ENTIRE BUNCH. THAT'S WHAT I MEANT WHEN THEY DON'T CARE FOR EQ, THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS MORALLY RIGHT TO AN OUTSIDER'S EYES, SO LONG AS IT ALLOWS THEM TO SURVIVE, THEY'LL DO IT.
- sure, but extreme measures are only temporary fixes. a society will never thrive under binary thinking. you can see this in countries today who hold these extreme beliefs. prosperity is scarce & their quality of life is nonexistent.-HAVE YOU EVEN READ HISTORY BOOKS? IT IS ALWAYS VIOLENCE THAT CREATES CHANGE, PEACEFUL BULLCRAP ONLY WORKS IN IDEOLOGY AND CAN ONLY GET SO FAR. IT'S THE RADICALS WHO CHALLENGE THE SYSTEM AND THRIVE TO SURVIVE BUT YEAH, I DO AGREE THAT IT IS A TEMPORARY FIX, IF A COUNTRY CONTINUES TO HAVE THE EXTREMIST WAY OF HANDLING THINGS WHEN THE SETTING NO LONGER DEMANDS IT, THEY WILL BE OVERTHROWN, BUT AGAIN THAT'S NOT THE CASE IN THIS WORK, IS IT? THEY NEED TO BE EXTREME, AT LEAST AT THIS POINT OF THE STORY.
again, you guys are IMPLYING he’s one. you act as if he’s a puppet with no agency. you mistaken his ignorance for absolvement. i see guwon as grey, but in not going to disregard his actions like your guys do. i can critique him & still like him lol. - NEVER SAID HE'S IGNORANT, HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING, OTHERWISE WHY WOULD HE REACT THAT WAY? I'M SAYING HE IS DOING IT BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THE GROUP WANTS AND HE IS PART OF THAT GROUP AND SHARES THEIR COLLECTIVE WAY OF THINKING AND DECISION MAKING.
right… so what does that tell you about guwon? exactly what i’ve been saying about him this whole time. he’s not a puppet. - WHO KEEPS ON SAYING HE IS? I'M SAYING HE'S PART OF A GROUP, WANTS THAT GROUP TO THRIVE, AND DOES THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF THE GROUP. IF SOMEONE IS NOT BENEFICIAL TO SAID GROUP THEN HE DOESN'T CARE FOR THAT PERSON AT ALL, BUT IF THEY ARE LIKE THE MC THEN HE'LL TAKE THEM IN.
ok, i’ll remember this conversation when the tables turn for guwon. i expect no grace for him even if it’s justified. i’m not saying you do everything out of the kindness of your heart, but nuance is a necessity for survival. if you can’t understand that, then idk what to tell you. -PIN IT IF YOU WANT, THAT IS IF THE PEOPLE DO TURN AGAINST HIM FOR THE VERY REASON THAT YOU SAID- THAT HE ACTED AS AN EXECUTIONER, AND NOT FOR ANY OTHER THING LIKE SOME OTHER GROUP WHO WANT TO GET RID OF HIM SO THEY CAN TAKE OVER THE TOWN OR SOME PLOT DEVICE LIKE THAT.
“betrayal of one's own country, specifically by levying war against it or giving aid and comfort to its enemies.” - IT SAYS SO RIGHT THERE, "BETRAYAL AGAINST THE COUNTRY"- WHEN EVERYONE IS WORKING HARD TO KEEP THE RESOURCES ACCOUNTED FOR, EVEN ENDURING THEIR OWN ILLNESSES JUST TO PREVENT USING THE MEDICINE, IS SUDDENLY FACED WITH SOME GUY WHO GOES AGAINST WHAT'S EXPECTED OF A CITIZEN, THAT IS BETRAYAL- YOU ARE DECLARING WAR BY GOING AGAINST WHAT THE GROUP DEMANDS YOU TO DO. THIS ISN'T MODERN TIMES, THESE RESOURCES ARE WORTH THEIR WEIGHT MORE THAN GOLD, EVEN A SINGLE DOSE IS A VITAL PART THAT COULD VERY WELL MAKE OR BREAK THEIR ENTIRE GROUP
so a father stealing medicine for his sick son is equivalent to him betraying & attacking the group? that’s quite extreme. stealing is bad yes, but it’s not treasonous. murder isn’t the only form of punishment & it shouldn’t be the first option. you’re jumping out the window here imo.--STEALING MEDICINE FOR A SICK SON IS NOT A HARSH OFFENSE IN A NORMAL WORLD, BUT AGAIN THIS IS AN EXTREMIST GROUP WITH EXTREMIST IDEOLOGIES THAT'S THE RESULT OF THEIR WILL TO SURVIVE, SO YES, IT MAKES SENSE THAT STEALING THE VERY LITTLE RESOURCES THAT THEY GUARD WITH ALL THEIR MIGHT IS A HUGE OFFENSE THAT COULD EVEN BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH
woah, calm down LMAOOO. i’m making an analogy here. social reform & education helps a group live longer than enacting fear & cruel punishment.- YES I AGREE, BUT ONLY WHEN THE BASIC NEEDS ARE MET FIRST, WHICH IN THIS TOWN ISN'T. THAT'S WHY THEIR MINDSET IS LIKE THAT
yes, they could afford it. their survival depends on it.- HOW? REALLY, HOW WILL THEY AFFORD IT? THEY CAN BARELY SCRAPE WITH THEIR EXISTING RESOURCES AND YOU WANT THEM TO PULL SOCIAL REFORMS ON TOP OF THAT? HOW EXACTLY WOULD YOU PULL IT, I'M GENUINELY CURIOUS TO KNOW
yeah, no. i can’t agree. i get what you’re saying, but i just can’t see murder being a good punishment for theft. plus, i’m confident guwon will slip up in the future… could you hold these same beliefs towards him once it’s time for him to be punished, even if the punishment is murder?- YES! IF THE PLOT JUSTIFIES IT THEN ABSOLUTELY YES, I KEPT ON SAYING IT- THE GROUP ARE EXTREMISTS, IF HE LOSES THEIR FAVOR OR IF HE HIMSELF GOES AGAINST THEM, I FULLY EXPECT THEM TO HUNT HIM DOWN TOO
is guwon reasonable bc it’s an apocalypse or is he reasonable bc we see things through his eyes? if the author had shown guwon killing the father before we knew his personality & him falling in love with jinwoo, would we still feel the same way about him? only time will tell. how these things play out will tell me everything i need to know about the characters & the audience.--I COULDN'T CARE MUCH FOR HIM, TBH HE BARELY HAS A PERSONALITY YET, LIKE 80% OF HIS CHARACTER IS STILL SHROUDED IN MYSTERY, SAME WITH THE MC, HE BARELY HAS ANY BACKSTORY FOR HIM TOO, ALL WE KNOW IS THAT HE'S A TEACHER AND HE FALLS IN LOVE EASY, THAT'S ABOUT IT. I FIND IT REASONABLE BECAUSE AS I SAID I THINK THE DEVELOPMENT IS REALISTIC- YOU LIVE IN A WORLD LIKE THIS AND THESE TYPE OF THINGS ARE EXPECTED TO HAPPEN, WORSE THINGS EVEN HAPPENED TO REAL LIFE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T EVEN COMMIT ANY TYPE OF CRIME.
lmaoooo, omg. not you typing in all caps for little ol' me. you're so sweet.
- you have no evidence of him being a victim. you can only guess that. so, ofc i'm not going to with you. if he's a victim, then so is everybody else bc they're all stuck within the system. yes... he's a ruthless killer--that's a fact. he can be ruthless AND a grey coded character. now where do we go from here bc you're not saying much.
- you mean that's what they're ALL doing to keep the town afloat. why wouldn't they care if he's the leader if they chose him to lead them? if they care enough about their survival, then they care about him leading them. you don't KNOW that... you can only SPECULATE. this is you shooting into the dark.
- again, words mean things. you are IMPLYING that he is. you keep acting like the townsfolk are this big cabal that pulls strings from behind the scenes & guwon is so ignorant that he lacks agency. ok... we're going somewhere. finally. yes, exactly! all i'm saying is that as their leader, guwon should implement better practices if they want to survive. death as punishment is not effective in the long run.
- i've already explained the silver lining. no, they don't need to be extreme. everybody has a choice. his exsistence is beneficial for NOW. we don't that if that'll be true later on, which is why i'm pointing out the silver lining. when the tables turn & guwon is in the father's shoes, it'll be too late to come back from these extremes.
- lmao. i'm saying it's not a right girlie. i never said you said that. you don't know that. we still don't know much about guwon. ok... so how does that change what i'm saying about being an effective leader? strength is good yes, but it's not enough. idk if that is clicking for you.
- IMPLICATION. IMPLICATION. IMPLICATION. pls learn what this means... lmaooo. omg. again, some of this is speculation... we don't know that yet. sure, yeah... there's nuance. i'm not denying that. i don't necessarily disagree with certain aspects of this claim, so i'll cut you some slack here.
- yes, they learn, but learning doesn't mean we must swing in the other direction bc we failed in the past. BALANCE IS KEY. guwon didn't have to kill him and i stand on that wholeheartedly. i understand that, but survival won't be met through extreme acts of violence either. lmaoooo. BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE. IDC ABOUT THEM HAVING TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS BECAUSE IT IS STILL A PRIVILEGE. IF PEOPLE HATED IT SO MUCH, NOBODY WOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT, MEN IN ANCIENT TIMES WOULDN'T BE SO DESPERATE TO BECOME KING, WARS WOULDN'T BE A THING... like c'mon girl.
- right.. all i'm saying is guwon should implement EQ anyway if they don't care for it bc it'll keep them alive longer vs. drastically killing people off. it's not an effective way to rule a group. he and/or they will die if they keep this up.
- it could be the case, which is why i'm saying that guwon needs to be more effective if he wants the group & himself to survive. sure, violence can get you things, but it's not a long term strategy for any group. idk why me critiquing him is a point of contention. i'm not wrong in thinking this way.
ok.. you keep doing this thing where you act like i said you said something. we all know guwon is ignorant, so i'm not wrong in stating that you mistaken his ignorance for absolvement by acting as if the townspeople are secretly pulling strings. regardless, i don't disagree, so we can drop this point.
ok.
i couldn't understand this one. lol.
- but they're not a country. they're a group. these people know each other intimately vs. a country full of millions of people who won't ever really meet each other. the circumstances are different. yes, stealing is bad, i never said it wasn't. what i'm arguing is that guwon could've used this moment as a way of establishing better principles. he needs to become a better leader. calling it warfare promotes propagandic thinking & an extremist mindset, which is what i'm trying to pull away from.
- i get what you're saying, but again you're thinking about things as black or white. nuance is KEY. murder is not a good form of punishment for a minor infraction such as this. if anything, it showcases how their system DOESN'T work if he has to steal to get his needs met. he won't be the only one. if guwon can't come up with a new way of thinking, then he runs the risk of breaking his own rules and/or showing the others that he isn't a good leader after all. me expressing this sentiment shows how much i not only want guwon to survive, but everyone to make it as well.
- but their basic needs AREN'T met. stealing infers that one can't get what they need easily. what if the doctor steals next? do you think guwon could kill him bc it's the rules? this is where the slippery slope comes in. if he kills someone like the doctor who has valuable skills, he runs the risk of harming the group. if he doesn't kill them for breaking the rules, he comes across as weak and ineffective. that's why he needs to implement ethical principles now or suffer the consequences later.
- they can afford it bc they have no choice but to. it's that or eventual death. life isn't binary. there are grey areas. within an environment like that, each choice made is life changing. acting first & thinking later will be costly. the needle of what is acceptable will move & before you know it, things like cannibalism & rape are acceptable bc they use these rules to justify their behavior. this ends up harming them in the end bc they need each other to survive.
- ok, so you're advocating for their death then. you're thinking short term. they'll eat each other, then there'll be no point in survival. a snake eating it's own tail.
- i wouldn't say you don't. he's a big reason on why the story is so interesting. you wouldn't debate with me for this long if you didn't care. it's realistic logistically, sure, but not long term. you're not willing to look at the grey areas to understand why this group's surivival is dependent on guwon increasing his EQ & building better relationships with his peers. sure, bad things happen to good people. my morals & ethics don't waver. i don't shrug it off like it's life... change is an option. principles & education matter.
- you have no evidence of him being a victim. you can only guess that. so, ofc i'm not going to with you. if he's a victim, then so is everybody else bc they're all stuck within the system. yes... he's a ruthless killer--that's a fact. he can be ruthless AND a grey coded character. now where do we go from here bc you're not saying much. -LOL HE IS LITERALLY ILLITERATE AND INEXPERIENCED IN A LOT OF WAYS, THE ONLY THING THAT HE'S GOOD AT IS BEING A KILLING MACHINE AND RUNNING THE ENTIRE TOWN- AN UNEDUCATED TANK THAT DOES YOUR BIDDING, THAT'S USUALLY THE FORMULA FOR TACTICAL MANIPULATION FOR PRESERVATION, OTHERWISE WHY DIDN'T THEY EDUCATE HIM THEMSELVES? SURELY AT LEAST ONE OF THEM KNOWS HOW TO READ/WRITE. NOW AGAIN, WHEN IT COMES TO DOING THE KILLING, DOES HE KNOW THAT IT'S WRONG, I THINK YES, HE DOES, BUT DOES HE CARE? MOST PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE HE SHARES THE SAME IDEOLOGIES AS THE OTHERS IN THE TOWN, WHICH IS JUSTIFYING THE ENDS AGAINST THE MEANS- BETTER TO GET RID OF THE PROBLEM NOW THAN SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES LATER. ALSO YES, THEY ARE ALL VICTIMS OF THE SETTING SINCE THEY ARE PART OF THE SAME MESSED UP WORLD, BUT TO POINT THE BLAME ON JUST HIM BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO GOT HIS HANDS DIRTY IS ABSURD CONSIDERING, AGAIN, IT WAS A COLLECTIVE CHOICE.
- you mean that's what they're ALL doing to keep the town afloat. why wouldn't they care if he's the leader if they chose him to lead them? if they care enough about their survival, then they care about him leading them. you don't KNOW that... you can only SPECULATE. this is you shooting into the dark.-WHAT I MEANT TO SAY, THEY DON'T CARE IF IT'S HIM OR IF IT'S ANOTHER BRAWNY DUDE WHO CAN DO WHAT HE DOES, SO LONG AS IT WORKS FOR THEIR SURVIVAL. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE "GUWON" SPECIFICALLY, IF A BETTER CHOICE WERE IN THE GROUP, A STRONGER AND MORE RELIABLE CANDIDATE THAT CAN PROVIDE BETTER FOR THEM, THEN THEY WILL CHOOSE THAT PERSON INSTEAD SINCE THEY WOULD FARE BETTER UNDER THAT GUY'S LEADERSHIP THAN THE ML
- again, words mean things. you are IMPLYING that he is. you keep acting like the townsfolk are this big cabal that pulls strings from behind the scenes & guwon is so ignorant that he lacks agency. ok... we're going somewhere. finally. yes, exactly! all i'm saying is that as their leader, guwon should implement better practices if they want to survive. death as punishment is not effective in the long run. - YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KEEPS ASSUMING THAT I WANT THE TOWNSFOLK TO BE PRESENTED AS AN EVIL ENTITY, WHEN I HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THESE PEOPLE ONLY HAVE ONE THING IN MIND, AND THAT IS TO SURVIVE, AND IF THAT MEANT USING A BRAWN LIKE GUWON TO ACT AS THEIR SHIELD AND KILLING WHOEVER IS DEEMED UNFIT FOR THE TOWN IS WHAT IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT THEN THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO, THEY ARE GRAY CHARACTERS TOO, MUCH LIKE THE ML AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THEM ENGAGING AS A SET PIECES. ALSO DAHECK KINDA PRACTICE DO YOU WANT IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING? YOU SAY THAT AS IF THEY NEVER TRIED A DIFFERENT TACTIC BEFORE, THEY ALREADY DID AND IT DID NOT WORK, WHY ON EARTH DO YOU THINK IT REACHED TO THAT LEVEL OF EXTREME? DO YOU THINK THEY JUST WOKE UP ONE DAY AND DECIDED WHOEVER STEALS FROM THE RESOURCES SHOULD BE PUNISHED BY DEATH? LOL THESE CHANGES ARE THE RESULT OF SEVERAL INCIDENTS, THEY ARE STICKING TO THE CURRENT APPROACH BECAUSE IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR THEM CURRENTLY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S ETERNAL, THINGS COULD HAPPEN, IT'S JUST THAT AGAIN, AT THIS PART OF THE STORY, IT MAKES SENSE THE MOST.
- i've already explained the silver lining. no, they don't need to be extreme. everybody has a choice. his exsistence is beneficial for NOW. we don't that if that'll be true later on, which is why i'm pointing out the silver lining. when the tables turn & guwon is in the father's shoes, it'll be too late to come back from these extremes.- NO YOU DID NOT. WHAT IS THE SILVER LINING OF SPARING THE DAD? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE A GOOD OUTCOME OF DOING THAT? ASIDE FROM PREVENTING A KID FROM GETTING ORPHAN? IF THE ML WAS IN THE FATHER'S SHOES, ASSUMING LET'S SAY HE STOLE MEDICINE FOR THE MC, HE GOT CAUGHT AND WAS PUT ON TRIAL TO BE KILLED, LET'S SAY THERE'S ANOTHER EXECUTIONER WHO IS TAKING THE ROLE OF THE PUNISHER, YOU THINK HE WILL BE SPARED WHEN AGAIN, THE TOWN CONSIDERS THEFT A GRAND OFFENSE? HE WOULD BE KILLED TOO BECAUSE THAT'S THE TYPE OF JUSTICE THAT THEY ADHERE TO.
- lmao. i'm saying it's not a right girlie. i never said you said that. you don't know that. we still don't know much about guwon. ok... so how does that change what i'm saying about being an effective leader? strength is good yes, but it's not enough. idk if that is clicking for you. -DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE? YOU SAID THAT BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE AND NOT A RIGHT TO WHICH I ASKED WHEN DID HE EVEN REGARD BEING A LEADER AS HIS RIGHT? YOU SAY IT'S A PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE TO WHAT? TO RULE A DUMPSTER TOWN THAT PRETENDS IT'S A UTOPIA? AS I SAID, THEY NEEDED SOMEONE TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS THAT ONLY A LEADER CAN DO, AND THEY CHOSE HIM BECAUSE HE IS THE MOST VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR THAT.
- IMPLICATION. IMPLICATION. IMPLICATION. pls learn what this means... lmaooo. omg. again, some of this is speculation... we don't know that yet. sure, yeah... there's nuance. i'm not denying that. i don't necessarily disagree with certain aspects of this claim, so i'll cut you some slack here.- YOU LEARN WHAT IT MEANS, YOU SOUND LIKE A PRIMARY STUDENT WHO JUST LEARNED THAT WORD LOL, YOU CAN READ BETWEEN THE LINES BASED OFF WHAT WAS GIVEN IN THE PLOT SO FAR, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LAID OUT FOR YOU WORD FOR WORD. WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DO THAT? BECAUSE THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM? WHY WOULD THEY BE SCARED OF HIM? THE MOST HE CAN DO IS KILL THEM, AND THEY CAN PRETTY MUCH GET THE SAME TREATMENT BY GOING OUTSIDE AND BEING EATEN BY THE ZOMBIES. BECAUSE HE HAS THE RESOURCES, LOL THE RESOURCES ARE THE TOWN'S, HE DOESN'T OWN SHIT, EVEN THE HOUSE THE HE'S LIVING IN, HE SAID WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY THE TOWN JUST COZ HE'S THE LEADER. SO WHAT POWER EXACTLY DOES HE HOLD OVER THEM?
- yes, they learn, but learning doesn't mean we must swing in the other direction bc we failed in the past. BALANCE IS KEY. guwon didn't have to kill him and i stand on that wholeheartedly. i understand that, but survival won't be met through extreme acts of violence either. lmaoooo. BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE. IDC ABOUT THEM HAVING TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS BECAUSE IT IS STILL A PRIVILEGE. IF PEOPLE HATED IT SO MUCH, NOBODY WOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT, MEN IN ANCIENT TIMES WOULDN'T BE SO DESPERATE TO BECOME KING, WARS WOULDN'T BE A THING... like c'mon girl.- WHEN EVERYTHING DOES NOT WORK, EXTREMES ARE THE ONLY CHOICE, IT'S EASY TO SAY BALANCE IS THE KEY AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, OKAY, LIST OUT THE OTHER WAYS THEN THAT THEY COULD'VE ADDRESSED THAT CRIME? LOL ALSO I ALREADY SAID THIS, BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE WHEN YOU'RE RULING A BOUNTIFUL COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY PEOPLE RUN AND FIGHT FOR POWER, BUT IN THIS TYPE OF TOWN WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AS THE LEADER, REALLY? YOU CAN'T EVEN GET MEDICINE YOURSELF WHEN YOUR SICK BECAUSE THE HOUNDS ARE STILL MORE OF A PRIORTY THAN YOU, SO WHAT PRIVILEGE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE?
- right.. all i'm saying is guwon should implement EQ anyway if they don't care for it bc it'll keep them alive longer vs. drastically killing people off. it's not an effective way to rule a group. he and/or they will die if they keep this up.- AND I ASK ONCE AGAIN, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IF YOU WERE THE LEADER THEN, YOU THINK YOUR EQ AND APPEAL TO HOLD HANDS AND SING HAKUNA MATATA WOULD WORK? LMAO THEY MIGHT JUST FIND YOU USELESS IN THE END.
- it could be the case, which is why i'm saying that guwon needs to be more effective if he wants the group & himself to survive. sure, violence can get you things, but it's not a long term strategy for any group. idk why me critiquing him is a point of contention. i'm not wrong in thinking this way.- AND AGAIN, WHAT ARE YOUR ALTERNATIVES TO THIS? YOU KEEP ON SAYING, HE SHOULD'VE DONE BETTER, SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE EFFECTIVE, BUT YOU NEVER GAVE ANY OTHER OPTION THAT'S FEASIBLE IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING. HOPING FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE IS GOOD, BUT ONE DOES NOT ARRIVE THERE WITHOUT STAB WOUNDS AND BROKEN LIMBS. IN EVERY SUCCESSFUL NATION, THERE IS ALWAYS A PERIOD OF BLOODBATH, AND THAT IS WHAT PAVES WAY FOR THEM TO EVENTUALLY MOVE ON AND BE BETTER.
- but they're not a country. they're a group. these people know each other intimately vs. a country full of millions of people who won't ever really meet each other. the circumstances are different. yes, stealing is bad, i never said it wasn't. what i'm arguing is that guwon could've used this moment as a way of establishing better principles. he needs to become a better leader. calling it warfare promotes propagandic thinking & an extremist mindset, which is what i'm trying to pull away from. --YOU'RE TALKING TECHNICALITIES, A KING COULD RULE A SMALL TOWN TOO, AND YET TREASON WOULD STILL BE A CRIME THAT A PERSON WHO COMITTED AN ACT AGAINST THE KINGDOM WILL BE INDICTED WITH. FR DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT HIM TO STAND THERE AFTER HAVING THEM CAST A VOTE AND SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT GUYS, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS QUITE HARSH, WHY DON'T WE TAKE A CHILL PILL AND GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT?" LMAO THE PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS ARE HEIGHTENED WITH ANGER FROM THE MISSING MEDICINE, THEY WANTED TO PUNISH THE PERPETRATOR AND THEY WANTED IT FAST, IT WOULD BE BAD TIMING FOR HIM TO DO THAT AT THAT TIME, THEY ARE ALREADY PISSED.
- i get what you're saying, but again you're thinking about things as black or white. nuance is KEY. murder is not a good form of punishment for a minor infraction such as this. if anything, it showcases how their system DOESN'T work if he has to steal to get his needs met. he won't be the only one. if guwon can't come up with a new way of thinking, then he runs the risk of breaking his own rules and/or showing the others that he isn't a good leader after all. me expressing this sentiment shows how much i not only want guwon to survive, but everyone to make it as well.--AGAIN, THEFT IN THIS SETTING IS NOT A MINOR THING, IT IS MAJOR BECAUSE THEY HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES TO IT. SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE TOWN NEEDS THE MEDICINE TOO, BUT THEY MAKE SACRIFICES TO MAKE IT WORK, THAT'S WHY HAVING SOMEONE STEAL INSTEAD OF ENDURING IT LIKE THE REST IS A BIG DEAL, IT STANDS OUT AND WOULD INDEFINITELY MAKE PEOPLE PISSED ENOUGH THAT THEY'LL CALL OUT FOR BLOOD.
- but their basic needs AREN'T met. stealing infers that one can't get what they need easily. what if the doctor steals next? do you think guwon could kill him bc it's the rules? this is where the slippery slope comes in. if he kills someone like the doctor who has valuable skills, he runs the risk of harming the group. if he doesn't kill them for breaking the rules, he comes across as weak and ineffective. that's why he needs to implement ethical principles now or suffer the consequences later.-- THAT'S WHAT I SAID, YOUR GRAND PLAN WANTS TO PRIORITIZE SOCIAL REFORMS WHICH IS GOOD AND ALL, BUT NOT WHEN THEIR BASIC NEEDS ARE NOT MET IN THE FIRST PLACE, HAVING GOOD SOCIAL STANDING WON'T KEEP THEM ALIVE, HAVING RESOURCES DOES, AND WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXTREMELY LOW LEVEL OF THAT TO BE SHARED AROUND FOR AN ENTIRE TOWN, THAT SCARCITY DRIVES ONE'S MENTAL STATE ON PAR WITH DESPERATION TO PRESERVE IT- LIKE A MANGLY, HUNGRY DOG GUARDING A BONE- JUST TRY AND TAKE THAT AWAY AND IT WILL SURELY RIP YOUR HAND OFF.
- they can afford it bc they have no choice but to. it's that or eventual death. life isn't binary. there are grey areas. within an environment like that, each choice made is life changing. acting first & thinking later will be costly. the needle of what is acceptable will move & before you know it, things like cannibalism & rape are acceptable bc they use these rules to justify their behavior. this ends up harming them in the end bc they need each other to survive.- ARE YOU FOR REAL? THEY ARE TAKING THE DRASTIC MEASURE OF MAKING SURE THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS BECAUSE THEY ARE AVOIDING THAT VERY SAME CONCLUSION- RAPE AND CANNIBALISM ARE DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTED TO LACK OF RESOURCES (ONE FOR POPULATION AND THE OTHER FOR FOOD), THEY DO NOT NEED THE NUMBER FOR NOW SINCE THEY ARE BARELY SCRAPING BY, BUT SUSTENANCE IS DEFINITELY AN ISSUE, THEY PRIORITIZE THE HOUNDS BECAUSE THEY SATIATE THE SUSTENANCE ALBEIT LITTLE, THEIR EVERY MISSION GIVES THEM HOPE THAT THEY WILL COME BACK WITH THE RESOURCES TO SUSTAIN THEM, THAT'S WHY THEY SACRIFICE IN RETURN, THE REASON WHY THE THEFT IS SUCH A GREAT OFFENSE IS BECAUSE IT ENDANGERS THE HOUNDS, WHICH IN TURN POSES A DANGER TO THEIR MEANS OF SUPPLIES. NOT EVEN MEDICINE = NOT ENOUGH HOUNDS = NOT ENOUGH RESOURCES, WHICH WILL THEN LEAD TO EVEN MORE GOREY AND VILER METHODS OF PRESERVING THE TOWN'S SURVIVAL, SUCH AS CANNIBALISM.
- ok, so you're advocating for their death then. you're thinking short term. they'll eat each other, then there'll be no point in survival. a snake eating it's own tail.-DAFUQ WHEN DID I ADVOCATE FOR DEATH? I SAID WITH THE TYPE OF MENTALITY THAT THEY HAVE AND EXTREMIST IDEOLOGIES, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS, EVEN IF IT'S THE ML, THEY WILL PUNISH THEM ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEFS. SIMILAR TO HOW EXTREMISTS JUSTIFY HONOR KILLINGS EVEN WHEN IT'S A DEMENTED METHOD.
- i wouldn't say you don't. he's a big reason on why the story is so interesting. you wouldn't debate with me for this long if you didn't care. it's realistic logistically, sure, but not long term. you're not willing to look at the grey areas to understand why this group's surivival is dependent on guwon increasing his EQ & building better relationships with his peers. sure, bad things happen to good people. my morals & ethics don't waver. i don't shrug it off like it's life... change is an option. principles & education matter.--CHANGE IS AN OPTION ONLY IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR IT, DO YOU SEE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR IT SO FAR IN THIS STORY? THAT'S JUST ONE INSTANCE TOO, FOR ALL YOU KNOW MUCH WORSE THINGS ARE HAPPENING BENEATH, AS IT SHOULD IF CHANGE IS TO BE MADE. THIS CHANGE AS AN OPTION THING THAT YOU SAY IS ONLY MADE POSSIBLE WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS RUINED BEYOND REPAIR, THAT'S WHY I SAID I AGREE THAT EXTREMITY IS NOT A LONG TERM FIX, IT'S BOUND TO POP AT SOME POINT, AND EVEN IF IT DOES SURVIVE UNTIL THE NEXT NEW AGE OF A TOWN, IT WILL BE OVERTHROWN WHEN THE TOWNFOLK NO LONGER HAS USE FOR IT. THIS POINT OF THE STORY IS STILL NOT THERE, THAT'S WHY THE ACTIONS AND DEVELOPMENTS, AS I SAID IS THE MOST REALISTIC OUTCOME FOR NOW. ALSO I ALREADY SAID IT FROM MY OG POST, I FIND THE STORY INTERESTING, I LIKE THAT THE AUTHOR GAVE HIM SOME LEVEL OF BACKBONE, HAD HE BEEN SOME BLOKE WHO'S ALREADY MORAL FROM THE GET-GOT, ONE WITH YOUR SO CALLED EQ, HE'LL JUST BE ON A PILE WITH YOUR OTHER GENERIC LEADS, BUT SO FAR I AM NOT ATTACHED TO THEM YET, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO BE ATTACHED TO YET, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SO FAR IS THE SETTING AND THE PLOT (SPECIFICALLY THE THEFT AND THE MOTIVE ON WHY THE TOWN HAD TO MAKE THAT CHOICE), THE CHARACTER IS JUST DRAGGED BECAUSE HE'S PIVOTAL TO IT.
LMAOOOOO oh jesus.
• "LOL HE IS LITERALLY ILLITERATE AND INEXPERIENCED IN A LOT OF WAYS, THE ONLY THING THAT HE'S GOOD AT IS BEING A KILLING MACHINE AND RUNNING THE ENTIRE TOWN- AN UNEDUCATED TANK THAT DOES YOUR BIDDING, THAT'S USUALLY THE FORMULA FOR TACTICAL MANIPULATION FOR PRESERVATION, OTHERWISE WHY DIDN'T THEY EDUCATE HIM THEMSELVES? SURELY AT LEAST ONE OF THEM KNOWS HOW TO READ/WRITE."
see? this is why i said you're turning him into a victim & you're villainizing the group to do so. this man has agency. everything said here is just speculation bc all we know is what he's told jinwoo. we don't see the group's perspectives, thoughts, ideas, etc. so this is biased. next.
• "THEY DON'T CARE IF IT'S HIM OR IF IT'S ANOTHER BRAWNY DUDE WHO CAN DO WHAT HE DOES, SO LONG AS IT WORKS FOR THEIR SURVIVAL. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE "GUWON" SPECIFICALLY, IF A BETTER CHOICE WERE IN THE GROUP, A STRONGER AND MORE RELIABLE CANDIDATE THAT CAN PROVIDE BETTER FOR THEM, THEN THEY WILL CHOOSE THAT PERSON INSTEAD SINCE THEY WOULD FARE BETTER UNDER THAT GUY'S LEADERSHIP THAN THE ML"
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. again, you're SPECULATING. we only see things from guwon, jinwoo, & sometimes, the children's eyes. this is biased. next.
• "YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KEEPS ASSUMING THAT I WANT THE TOWNSFOLK TO BE PRESENTED AS AN EVIL ENTITY, WHEN I HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THESE PEOPLE ONLY HAVE ONE THING IN MIND, AND THAT IS TO SURVIVE, AND IF THAT MEANT USING A BRAWN LIKE GUWON TO ACT AS THEIR SHIELD AND KILLING WHOEVER IS DEEMED UNFIT FOR THE TOWN IS WHAT IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT THEN THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO, THEY ARE GRAY CHARACTERS TOO, MUCH LIKE THE ML AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THEM ENGAGING AS A SET PIECES."
mind you, this is you not too long ago: "LOL HE IS LITERALLY ILLITERATE AND INEXPERIENCED IN A LOT OF WAYS, THE ONLY THING THAT HE'S GOOD AT IS BEING A KILLING MACHINE AND RUNNING THE ENTIRE TOWN- AN UNEDUCATED TANK THAT DOES YOUR BIDDING, THAT'S USUALLY THE FORMULA FOR TACTICAL MANIPULATION FOR PRESERVATION, OTHERWISE WHY DIDN'T THEY EDUCATE HIM THEMSELVES? SURELY AT LEAST ONE OF THEM KNOWS HOW TO READ/WRITE."
is it oochie wally or one mic? is that not you acting like they're evil? girl. the cognitive dissonance is CRAZY. i keep telling you that YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. the townspeople don't express that they're using him as a pawn to survive. by that logic, they're all using each other to survive. even if that is true, so what? if they're all helping each other by proxy, then i don't see the issue. my main concern is leadership & implementing good ethics to elevate the group.
• "SAY THAT AS IF THEY NEVER TRIED A DIFFERENT TACTIC BEFORE, THEY ALREADY DID AND IT DID NOT WORK, WHY ON EARTH DO YOU THINK IT REACHED TO THAT LEVEL OF EXTREME? DO YOU THINK THEY JUST WOKE UP ONE DAY AND DECIDED WHOEVER STEALS FROM THE RESOURCES SHOULD BE PUNISHED BY DEATH? LOL THESE CHANGES ARE THE RESULT OF SEVERAL INCIDENTS, THEY ARE STICKING TO THE CURRENT APPROACH BECAUSE IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR THEM CURRENTLY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S ETERNAL, THINGS COULD HAPPEN, IT'S JUST THAT AGAIN, AT THIS PART OF THE STORY, IT MAKES SENSE THE MOST."
lmaooo, you just made all that up. none of this is known in the book besides them expressing how a hound died due to there being no medicine left. YOU said they were extremists. ok, well the approach isn't working my love. if people have to steal to get their needs met, then we gotta go back to the drawing board.
• "NO YOU DID NOT. WHAT IS THE SILVER LINING OF SPARING THE DAD? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE A GOOD OUTCOME OF DOING THAT? ASIDE FROM PREVENTING A KID FROM GETTING ORPHAN?"
i keep telling you ethics & you act like i'm naive or delusional for thinking that's possible in their world. like keep up miss girl.
• "IF THE ML WAS IN THE FATHER'S SHOES, ASSUMING LET'S SAY HE STOLE MEDICINE FOR THE MC, HE GOT CAUGHT AND WAS PUT ON TRIAL TO BE KILLED, LET'S SAY THERE'S ANOTHER EXECUTIONER WHO IS TAKING THE ROLE OF THE PUNISHER, YOU THINK HE WILL BE SPARED WHEN AGAIN, THE TOWN CONSIDERS THEFT A GRAND OFFENSE? HE WOULD BE KILLED TOO BECAUSE THAT'S THE TYPE OF JUSTICE THAT THEY ADHERE TO."
right, so you get it then? if guwon wants to save himself in the future, he needs to instill better principles now.
• "DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE? YOU SAID THAT BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE AND NOT A RIGHT TO WHICH I ASKED WHEN DID HE EVEN REGARD BEING A LEADER AS HIS RIGHT?"
no, did you read what i told you? i'm telling you definitively that is is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. it's not about who said what. my argument is guwon is privileged to be the leader of the group.
• "YOU SAY IT'S A PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE TO WHAT? TO RULE A DUMPSTER TOWN THAT PRETENDS IT'S A UTOPIA? AS I SAID, THEY NEEDED SOMEONE TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS THAT ONLY A LEADER CAN DO, AND THEY CHOSE HIM BECAUSE HE IS THE MOST VIABLE CANDIDATE FOR THAT"
ok, well this doesn't matter now does it. nobody cares that you think it's a dumpster. these people live here & guwon reigns over them bc he's the leader. that is PRIVILEGE. they all make hard decisions. when the father had to steal medicine for his kid, you don't think that was hard for him?
• "YOU LEARN WHAT IT MEANS, YOU SOUND LIKE A PRIMARY STUDENT WHO JUST LEARNED THAT WORD LOL, YOU CAN READ BETWEEN THE LINES BASED OFF WHAT WAS GIVEN IN THE PLOT SO FAR, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LAID OUT FOR YOU WORD FOR WORD."
ok.. let's utilize your words again: "WHEN DID WE SAY THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE AGENCY?" "DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE? YOU SAID THAT BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE AND NOT A RIGHT TO WHICH I ASKED WHEN DID HE EVEN REGARD BEING A LEADER AS HIS RIGHT?"
when you ask questions like this, it shows that you don't understand implication. if you're expressing that they're using him, they'd didn't teach him how to read, and he's a lackey so to speak, i'm going to say, "no, he has agency & is the leader of their group. that is a privilege." how did i reach the conclusion that he has privilege even though you didn't say it? why through IMPLICATION of course. your words express that guwon is restricted in some way, which is why i'm telling you he has agency & his leadership gives him that ability to do so if he so chooses (a.k.a. PRIVILEGE).
see how i broke that down for you? if you can understand how to read between the lines, why did you struggle with understanding that? lmaooo.
• "WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DO THAT? BECAUSE THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM? WHY WOULD THEY BE SCARED OF HIM? THE MOST HE CAN DO IS KILL THEM, AND THEY CAN PRETTY MUCH GET THE SAME TREATMENT BY GOING OUTSIDE AND BEING EATEN BY THE ZOMBIES. BECAUSE HE HAS THE RESOURCES, LOL THE RESOURCES ARE THE TOWN'S, HE DOESN'T OWN SHIT, EVEN THE HOUSE THE HE'S LIVING IN, HE SAID WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY THE TOWN JUST COZ HE'S THE LEADER. SO WHAT POWER EXACTLY DOES HE HOLD OVER THEM?"
he holds power bc he's the leader. they gifted him a house bc he's the leader. he has the resources bc he's the leader. all we know is they're scared of him. we don't know WHY. nothing has been revealed yet. regardless, if he can strike fear in their hearts, then that's enough to show you that guwon isn't as powerless as you think he is.
• "WHEN EVERYTHING DOES NOT WORK, EXTREMES ARE THE ONLY CHOICE, IT'S EASY TO SAY BALANCE IS THE KEY AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, OKAY, LIST OUT THE OTHER WAYS THEN THAT THEY COULD'VE ADDRESSED THAT CRIME?"
we only know what we've been shown so far within the book. you saying they've tried everything is not rooted in anything bc you don't KNOW that. i can present alternative methods bc it's based on what i BELIEVE to be true. notice the difference? go through my page & find the list. i'm tired chile. lmaoooo.
• "LOL ALSO I ALREADY SAID THIS, BEING A LEADER IS A PRIVILEGE WHEN YOU'RE RULING A BOUNTIFUL COUNTRY, THAT'S WHY PEOPLE RUN AND FIGHT FOR POWER, BUT IN THIS TYPE OF TOWN WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AS THE LEADER, REALLY? YOU CAN'T EVEN GET MEDICINE YOURSELF WHEN YOUR SICK BECAUSE THE HOUNDS ARE STILL MORE OF A PRIORTY THAN YOU, SO WHAT PRIVILEGE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE?"
this isn't true. 1) the idea of leadership doesn't lose it's appeal just bc the group you're reigning over sucks; 2) people fight for power in poor countries all the time. like stop the cap miss girl; 3) ok, well it's a good thing your feelings about how shitty their town/life is doesn't matter lmaoo
• "AND I ASK ONCE AGAIN, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IF YOU WERE THE LEADER THEN, YOU THINK YOUR EQ AND APPEAL TO HOLD HANDS AND SING HAKUNA MATATA WOULD WORK? LMAO THEY MIGHT JUST FIND YOU USELESS IN THE END."
look for it on my page. it's there. well, yeah lol. they're humans, not beasts. why wouldn't they consider my alternative? well, you don't know that. you don't know these people yet, so this is biased. next.
• "ND AGAIN, WHAT ARE YOUR ALTERNATIVES TO THIS? YOU KEEP ON SAYING, HE SHOULD'VE DONE BETTER, SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE EFFECTIVE, BUT YOU NEVER GAVE ANY OTHER OPTION THAT'S FEASIBLE IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING."
check da page miss girl :[
• "HOPING FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE IS GOOD, BUT ONE DOES NOT ARRIVE THERE WITHOUT STAB WOUNDS AND BROKEN LIMBS. IN EVERY SUCCESSFUL NATION, THERE IS ALWAYS A PERIOD OF BLOODBATH, AND THAT IS WHAT PAVES WAY FOR THEM TO EVENTUALLY MOVE ON AND BE BETTER."
i'm gonna chalk it up to personal trauma & bad dealings with others bc this is a nihilistic way at viewing things. sure, we go through hurdles, but violence is not effective long term. you end up with more issues than you started with. plus, they're a group, not a country. so violence is an even more extreme form of punishment & it could be harder for them to pull themselves out of that if EQ isn't implemented.
• "YOU'RE TALKING TECHNICALITIES, A KING COULD RULE A SMALL TOWN TOO, AND YET TREASON WOULD STILL BE A CRIME THAT A PERSON WHO COMITTED AN ACT AGAINST THE KINGDOM WILL BE INDICTED WITH"
no, not in this scenario, i'm not. when we use words like "treason" amongst a small group of people, it's a very loaded way in expressing an action/feeling. my whole point is to move away from extremism & to provide a balanced solution. stealing to help your sick son =/= death.
• "FR DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT HIM TO STAND THERE AFTER HAVING THEM CAST A VOTE AND SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT GUYS, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS QUITE HARSH, WHY DON'T WE TAKE A CHILL PILL AND GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT?" LMAO THE PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS ARE HEIGHTENED WITH ANGER FROM THE MISSING MEDICINE, THEY WANTED TO PUNISH THE PERPETRATOR AND THEY WANTED IT FAST, IT WOULD BE BAD TIMING FOR HIM TO DO THAT AT THAT TIME, THEY ARE ALREADY PISSED."
right, this is where guwon steps in. he's the leader. i hold him more accountable bc he leads them & thus, influence their behavior. by giving them other options outside of compliance & death, we can come up with better ways to solve issues like this one.
• "AGAIN, THEFT IN THIS SETTING IS NOT A MINOR THING, IT IS MAJOR BECAUSE THEY HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES TO IT. SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE TOWN NEEDS THE MEDICINE TOO, BUT THEY MAKE SACRIFICES TO MAKE IT WORK, THAT'S WHY HAVING SOMEONE STEAL INSTEAD OF ENDURING IT LIKE THE REST IS A BIG DEAL, IT STANDS OUT AND WOULD INDEFINITELY MAKE PEOPLE PISSED ENOUGH THAT THEY'LL CALL OUT FOR BLOOD."
but look at what you just said--endure. the father is human. obviously he's not going to endure while his son is sick. these rules lack that empathetic nature in this scenario. theft isn't minor, but sickness & death isn't either. he risked his life to help his son. alternative punishment is better than just killing someone for not "enduring" enough.
• "THAT'S WHAT I SAID, YOUR GRAND PLAN WANTS TO PRIORITIZE SOCIAL REFORMS WHICH IS GOOD AND ALL, BUT NOT WHEN THEIR BASIC NEEDS ARE NOT MET IN THE FIRST PLACE, HAVING GOOD SOCIAL STANDING WON'T KEEP THEM ALIVE, HAVING RESOURCES DOES, AND WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXTREMELY LOW LEVEL OF THAT TO BE SHARED AROUND FOR AN ENTIRE TOWN, THAT SCARCITY DRIVES ONE'S MENTAL STATE ON PAR WITH DESPERATION TO PRESERVE IT- LIKE A MANGLY, HUNGRY DOG GUARDING A BONE- JUST TRY AND TAKE THAT AWAY AND IT WILL SURELY RIP YOUR HAND OFF."
you completely miss my point here & you never resolve the contradiction within my questions. if the doctor steals, is it ok to kill him? he's valuable to the group, but he's committed "treason."
if you express that it would be ok to kill him, then you hurt your own argument. if it's all about protecting resources, then why kill off your most precious asset? if you make provisions for the doctor, then your rules are not as concrete & dire as you claim they are.
• "ARE YOU FOR REAL? THEY ARE TAKING THE DRASTIC MEASURE OF MAKING SURE THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS BECAUSE THEY ARE AVOIDING THAT VERY SAME CONCLUSION- RAPE AND CANNIBALISM ARE DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTED TO LACK OF RESOURCES (ONE FOR POPULATION AND THE OTHER FOR FOOD), THEY DO NOT NEED THE NUMBER FOR NOW SINCE THEY ARE BARELY SCRAPING BY, BUT SUSTENANCE IS DEFINITELY AN ISSUE,"
i'm dead fucking ass. drastic measures means drastic behavior is ok. if they can kill someone for stealing, then what's stopping them from eating and/or eventually raping each other? remember, you said they were extremists. if that's the case, then rape, cannibalism, and slavery isn't off the table for them. you claimed that ethics isn't valuable here, so why are you getting offended? this is what people do when they lack ethics & principles.
• "THEY PRIORITIZE THE HOUNDS BECAUSE THEY SATIATE THE SUSTENANCE ALBEIT LITTLE, THEIR EVERY MISSION GIVES THEM HOPE THAT THEY WILL COME BACK WITH THE RESOURCES TO SUSTAIN THEM, THAT'S WHY THEY SACRIFICE IN RETURN, THE REASON WHY THE THEFT IS SUCH A GREAT OFFENSE IS BECAUSE IT ENDANGERS THE HOUNDS, WHICH IN TURN POSES A DANGER TO THEIR MEANS OF SUPPLIES. NOT EVEN MEDICINE = NOT ENOUGH HOUNDS = NOT ENOUGH RESOURCES, WHICH WILL THEN LEAD TO EVEN MORE GOREY AND VILER METHODS OF PRESERVING THE TOWN'S SURVIVAL, SUCH AS CANNIBALISM."
sure, that could happen, but that's not the only worst case scenario. you're not taking environmental, mental, etc. factors into account. like i said before, a valuable person could be killed next for breaking a rule & this could result in their social structure slowly collapsing, which would then devolve into them harming each other freely.
• "DAFUQ WHEN DID I ADVOCATE FOR DEATH? I SAID WITH THE TYPE OF MENTALITY THAT THEY HAVE AND EXTREMIST IDEOLOGIES, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS, EVEN IF IT'S THE ML, THEY WILL PUNISH THEM ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEFS. SIMILAR TO HOW EXTREMISTS JUSTIFY HONOR KILLINGS EVEN WHEN IT'S A DEMENTED METHOD."
understand implication & cause > effect. this is your words: "YES! IF THE PLOT JUSTIFIES IT THEN ABSOLUTELY YES, I KEPT ON SAYING IT- THE GROUP ARE EXTREMISTS, IF HE LOSES THEIR FAVOR OR IF HE HIMSELF GOES AGAINST THEM, I FULLY EXPECT THEM TO HUNT HIM DOWN TOO"
prioritizing biological needs without taking their emotions into account isn't beneficial. if guwon can't change those beliefs, he's risking his life. personally, i don't want to see him dead, which is why i think social reform is needed before it's too late.
• "CHANGE IS AN OPTION ONLY IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR IT, DO YOU SEE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR IT SO FAR IN THIS STORY?"
yes, when jinwoo expressed how much he liked guwon, when guwon killed the father, when guwon is slapped by jinwoo... change can happen any and everywhere if he that's what he wants.
• "THAT'S JUST ONE INSTANCE TOO, FOR ALL YOU KNOW MUCH WORSE THINGS ARE HAPPENING BENEATH, AS IT SHOULD IF CHANGE IS TO BE MADE. THIS CHANGE AS AN OPTION THING THAT YOU SAY IS ONLY MADE POSSIBLE WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS RUINED BEYOND REPAIR, THAT'S WHY I SAID I AGREE THAT EXTREMITY IS NOT A LONG TERM FIX, IT'S BOUND TO POP AT SOME POINT, AND EVEN IF IT DOES SURVIVE UNTIL THE NEXT NEW AGE OF A TOWN, IT WILL BE OVERTHROWN WHEN THE TOWNFOLK NO LONGER HAS USE FOR IT."
change doesn't have to just emerge from bad events. change is active, not just passive. yeah, but that's what you DON'T want to happen. waiting until everything deteroriates could mean most of them dying or them losing resources. i don't think so.
• "THIS POINT OF THE STORY IS STILL NOT THERE, THAT'S WHY THE ACTIONS AND DEVELOPMENTS, AS I SAID IS THE MOST REALISTIC OUTCOME FOR NOW. ALSO I ALREADY SAID IT FROM MY OG POST, I FIND THE STORY INTERESTING, I LIKE THAT THE AUTHOR GAVE HIM SOME LEVEL OF BACKBONE, HAD HE BEEN SOME BLOKE WHO'S ALREADY MORAL FROM THE GET-GOT, ONE WITH YOUR SO CALLED EQ, HE'LL JUST BE ON A PILE WITH YOUR OTHER GENERIC LEADS, BUT SO FAR I AM NOT ATTACHED TO THEM YET, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO BE ATTACHED TO YET, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING SO FAR IS THE SETTING AND THE PLOT (SPECIFICALLY THE THEFT AND THE MOTIVE ON WHY THE TOWN HAD TO MAKE THAT CHOICE), THE CHARACTER IS JUST DRAGGED BECAUSE HE'S PIVOTAL TO IT."
um... that's not true? there's different ways to survive as long as your capable enough & adapt quickly. idk... i guess you have a thing for morally grey men or smthn. er... i like morally grey MMCs, but i'm not going to pretend i align with a character's beliefs/actions.
see? this is why i said you're turning him into a victim & you're villainizing the group to do so. this man has agency. everything said here is just speculation bc all we know is what he's told jinwoo. we don't see the group's perspectives, thoughts, ideas, etc. so this is biased. next. - I SAID HE'S ILLITERATE AND UNEDUCATED MEANING HE'S PRONE TO BEING USED AS A TOOL, THAT DOESN'T ABSOLVE HIM THE FACT THAT HE KILLED SOMEONE, BUT ALSO DOESN'T ABSOLVE THE GROUP TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIM EITHER. MY QUALM HERE IS THAT YOU'RE THE ONE WHO INSIST ON VILLAINIZING HIM ALONE AND NOT THE OTHERS WHO WERE ALSO IN ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, THAT'S WHY I KEPT ON SAYING THAT IT IS A COLLECTIVE CHOICE.
is it oochie wally or one mic? is that not you acting like they're evil? girl. the cognitive dissonance is CRAZY. i keep telling you that YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. the townspeople don't express that they're using him as a pawn to survive. by that logic, they're all using each other to survive. even if that is true, so what? if they're all helping each other by proxy, then i don't see the issue. my main concern is leadership & implementing good ethics to elevate the group. - EXACTLY, THEY ARE USING/NEED EACH OTHER TO ASSURE SURVIVAL BY MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE COMMITS TO THE ROLE AND THE SYSTEM, MY ISSUE HERE IS THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE ROLE IS CLEARLY IMBALANCED, EVERYONE WANTS EACH OTHER TO BE ACCOUNTABLE BUT WHEN IT COMES TO EXECUTING THE PUNISHMENT, WHY IS IT ONLY THE ML WHO STRIKE AND KILL? WHY DON'T THEY WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY WHEN THEY CLEARLY VOTED FOR THAT VERDICT THEMSELVES? NOT ONLY THAT, THEY EVEN MADE AN EFFORT TO INVESTIGATE, CAPTURE, AND PUT THE GUY ON TRIAL, THIS IS A CONCIOUS EFFORT, FROM THE MOMENT IT WAS KNOWN THAT THE MEDICINE WAS STOLEN, THEY WERE ON A WITCH HUNT AND THEY KNEW EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PUNISHMENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ASK, SO WHY IS IT ONLY THE ML WHO'S DOING IT ON THEIR BEHALF? YOU SAY GOOD ETHICS AND LEADERSHIP TO ELEVATE THE GROUP- LISTENING AND APPEASING YOUR SUBJECTS IS GOOD LEADERSHIP, SO WHAT MORE CAN HE DO HERE?
lmaooo, you just made all that up. none of this is known in the book besides them expressing how a hound died due to there being no medicine left. YOU said they were extremists. ok, well the approach isn't working my love. if people have to steal to get their needs met, then we gotta go back to the drawing board. - LMAO THAT'S WHY I KEEP SAYING DON'T WAIT FOR WORDS TO BE SPELLED OUT FOR YOU, THE PANELS CLEARLY SAID "THERE WAS A TIME WHEN OVERUSE AND CARELESSNESS LEAD TO THE DEATH OF A HOUND.." THAT NOT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU? THEY WERE GRANTED ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES BEFORE, THEY ABUSED IT, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE IN THIS EXTREMIST WAY OF RUNNING THINGS. THE THING THAT YOU WANT, WERE EVERYONE GETS ACCESS TO THE THINGS- THAT ALREADY HAPPENED, AND THAT ALREADY FAILED, WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW IS THE RESULT OF AIDING IN THAT CATASTROPHE.
i keep telling you ethics & you act like i'm naive or delusional for thinking that's possible in their world. like keep up miss girl. - AND STILL YOU DON'T PROVIDE SAMPLES, LOL. YOU JUST LOVE SAYING OH ETHICS AND MORALS, THEY'LL GAIN SYMPATHY FOR EACH OTHER- THESE THINGS ARE ALREADY INNATE IN HUMANS, IT IS ALREADY WITHIN US. BUT WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN SQUALOR WITH VERY LIMITED OPTIONS, THESE THINGS ARE USELESS AND COULD EVEN BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR DOWNFALL. SO I'M ASKING AGAIN, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN IF THE DAD WAS SPARED? PLOTWISE? YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME GRAND REVELATION TO THESE FOLK AND THEY'D BE GUILT RIDDEN FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY SUPPORTED SO FAR? HOW NAIVE YOU ARE.
• "IF THE ML WAS IN THE FATHER'S SHOES, ASSUMING LET'S SAY HE STOLE MEDICINE FOR THE MC, HE GOT CAUGHT AND WAS PUT ON TRIAL TO BE KILLED, LET'S SAY THERE'S ANOTHER EXECUTIONER WHO IS TAKING THE ROLE OF THE PUNISHER, YOU THINK HE WILL BE SPARED WHEN AGAIN, THE TOWN CONSIDERS THEFT A GRAND OFFENSE? HE WOULD BE KILLED TOO BECAUSE THAT'S THE TYPE OF JUSTICE THAT THEY ADHERE TO."
right, so you get it then? if guwon wants to save himself in the future, he needs to instill better principles now. DAFUQ ARE YOU HIGH? I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S THE ML OR THE DAD, RULES ARE RULES, THEY WILL KILL THE CRIMINAL REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS. FOR A TOWN THAT AGAIN, ONLY HAS SURVIVAL AS ITS END GOAL, THERE IS NO BETTER PRINCIPLE THAN MAKING SURE EVERY LOOSE END IS ADDRESSED, AND ANY POTENTIAL FOR DISASTER IS MITIGATED. THAT IS WHAT THEY LIVE BY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN SHAPES THEM UP TO BE, YOU KEEP TRYING TO PUT PRINCIPLES THAT CAN ONLY WORK IN A STABLE NATION IN A TURBULENT ONE LIKE THEM WHEN IT CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK.
no, did you read what i told you? i'm telling you definitively that is is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. it's not about who said what. my argument is guwon is privileged to be the leader of the group. AND AGAIN I ASK HOW IS HE PRIVILEGED? YOU DO KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD RIGHT? IT MEANS YOU GET PERKS, SO WHAT EVEN IS HE GETTING OUT OF HIS ROLE AS THE LEADER OF THIS TOWN?
ok, well this doesn't matter now does it. nobody cares that you think it's a dumpster. these people live here & guwon reigns over them bc he's the leader. that is PRIVILEGE. they all make hard decisions. when the father had to steal medicine for his kid, you don't think that was hard for him? - DAFUQ YOU TALKING ABOUT? I SAID THE PEOPLE WANTED A LEADER BECAUSE THEY NEED SOMEONE TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS FOR THEM AS A TOWN NOT AS INDIVIDUALS, THEY NEEDED SOMEONE WHO CAN WALK THE WALK AND TALK THE TALK- THE ML IS CHOSEN BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD (WHICH WAS ALREADY SHOWN THROUGHOUT THE PLOT VIA HIS INTERACTION WITH THE TOWNSFOLK AND THE MC), AND GOAL-ORIENTED (SHOWN ON HIS MISSIONS TO ONLY BRING BACK WHATEVER'S USEFUL FOR THE TOWN) AS HIM, EVEN SETTING ASIDE HIS STRENGTH WHICH IS ALREADY AN IMMENSE PLUS- THESE CRITERIA IS WHAT MADE THEM CHOOSE HIM AS THEIR LEADER, OR AT LEAST STAND BY HIM IN SUPPORT.
when you ask questions like this, it shows that you don't understand implication. if you're expressing that they're using him, they'd didn't teach him how to read, and he's a lackey so to speak, i'm going to say, "no, he has agency & is the leader of their group. that is a privilege." how did i reach the conclusion that he has privilege even though you didn't say it? why through IMPLICATION of course. your words express that guwon is restricted in some way, which is why i'm telling you he has agency & his leadership gives him that ability to do so if he so chooses (a.k.a. PRIVILEGE). - FIRST, A PERSON COULD BE UNEDUCATED AND USED AS A TOOL WITHIN AGENCY, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT WHEN I ASKED WHEN DID I SAY HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE COZ YOU KEPT INSISTING THAT I'M IMPLYING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. (READING COMPREHENSION- TRY IT INSTEAD OF FLAUNTING WORDS YOU CAN BARELY BREAKDOWN LMAO) LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU SINCE YOU CLEARLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT- HE'S STUPID, AND HE'S OPENLY USED BY THE TOWN, BUT HE'S NOT OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT- HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING, WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO HIM, HE'S AWARE OF HIS ROLE, BUT HE IS STILL MAKING A CONCIOUS DECISION TO STICK WITH IT BECAUSE EITHER HE COMPLETELY AGREES WITH THE TOWN'S GOAL OR HE HAS SOMETHING ELSE UP HIS SLEEVES. SECOND, HE MIGHT BE THE LEADER, BUT HE IS NOT A DICTATOR, EVEN IF HE PERSONALLY DISAGREES WITH THE CONSENSUS OF THE GROUP, YOU REALLY BELIEVE HE CAN JUST GO AGAINST THEM IF HE HAS A DIFFERENT PREFERENCE? THE PEOPLE EXPECT HIM TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE TOWN, IF THEY DEEM HIS DECISION NOT UP TO THEIR EXPECTATION, THEY CAN AND WILL TURN AGAINST HIM. THE PRIVILEGE THAT YOU KEEP SPEAKING OF WOULD ONLY WORK IF HE ACTUALLY HAS POWER OVER THEM, BUT HE DOES NOT, HE'S JUST THE FIGUREHEAD, ASIDE FROM HIS TITLE, HE OWNS NOTHING JUST LIKE THE REST.
• "WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DO THAT? BECAUSE THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM? WHY WOULD THEY BE SCARED OF HIM? THE MOST HE CAN DO IS KILL THEM, AND THEY CAN PRETTY MUCH GET THE SAME TREATMENT BY GOING OUTSIDE AND BEING EATEN BY THE ZOMBIES. BECAUSE HE HAS THE RESOURCES, LOL THE RESOURCES ARE THE TOWN'S, HE DOESN'T OWN SHIT, EVEN THE HOUSE THE HE'S LIVING IN, HE SAID WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY THE TOWN JUST COZ HE'S THE LEADER. SO WHAT POWER EXACTLY DOES HE HOLD OVER THEM?"
he holds power bc he's the leader. they gifted him a house bc he's the leader. he has the resources bc he's the leader. all we know is they're scared of him. we don't know WHY. nothing has been revealed yet. regardless, if he can strike fear in their hearts, then that's enough to show you that guwon isn't as powerless as you think he is. - NO, NOW IT'S YOU WHO ASSUMES THAT THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM LOL, THIS ONE WAS NOT IN THE WORK, AT LEAST NOT YET, SO FAR WHAT PEOPLE HAS SHOWN HIM WAS RESPECT, THEY WEREN'T FUMBLINGG WHEN HE APPEARED, AND THEY SEEM TO APPROACH HIM EASILY TOO. MATTER OF FACT, THEY WELCOMED HIM WHEN HE RETURNED BACK FROM THE MISSION AND EVEN WHEN SPEAKING TO HIM THEY ARE CASUAL ABOUT IT, EVEN GREETING HIM IN PUBLIC- YOU TOOK THAT THAT AS A SIGN OF PEOPLE LIVING IN FEAR? LOL THE HOUSE WAS A GIFT NOT BECAUSE HE WANTED IT BUT BECAUSE IT CAME WITH THE IMAGE OF A LEADER, JUST LIKE HOW HIS "LOOKS" FIT THAT OF A LEADER, MEANING ASIDE FROM THE TRAITS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, HE IS A FRIGHTENING AND DOMINANT LOOKING DUDE TOO, AND THAT IS EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU WANT OTHERS TO BE KEPT IN LINE; NOT AS MUCH PEOPLE WOULD TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY IF HE LOOKED LIKE THE MC, UNLESS HE HAS AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF CREDENTIALS UNDER HIS BELT TO MAKE UP FOR IT.
• "WHEN EVERYTHING DOES NOT WORK, EXTREMES ARE THE ONLY CHOICE, IT'S EASY TO SAY BALANCE IS THE KEY AND THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, OKAY, LIST OUT THE OTHER WAYS THEN THAT THEY COULD'VE ADDRESSED THAT CRIME?"
we only know what we've been shown so far within the book. you saying they've tried everything is not rooted in anything bc you don't KNOW that. i can present alternative methods bc it's based on what i BELIEVE to be true. notice the difference? go through my page & find the list. i'm tired chile. lmaoooo. - LOL THERE ARE HISTORICAL RECORDS SHOWING THE VILENESS HUMANITY WILL GO TO WHEN PUSHED TO AN EXTREME SITUATION, WHETHER BY GROUP OR INDIVIDUALLY, ON TOP OF THAT THERE ARE ALREADY STUDIES CONFIRMING THAT HUMANS DO HAVE TO TURN VIOLENCE WHEN THE BASIC NEEDS ARE NOT MET. ALSO WHY DAFUQ WOULD I GO TO YOUR LIST? YOU GOT THE OTHER WAYS THAT THEY COULD'VE HANDLED THE CRIME THERE? LOL, YOU'RE JUST BLUFFING COZ YOU CAN'T REALLY PROVIDE EVEN A SINGLE ONE.
this isn't true. 1) the idea of leadership doesn't lose it's appeal just bc the group you're reigning over sucks; 2) people fight for power in poor countries all the time. like stop the cap miss girl; 3) ok, well it's a good thing your feelings about how shitty their town/life is doesn't matter lmaoo -PEOPLE FIGHT FOR POWER IN POOR COUNTRIES BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO GET WEALTH AS A PERSON OF POWER THERE. EVERY POOR COUNTRY THAT YOU CAN THINK YOU, THROW AT ME, AND I BET MY LEFT NUT SACK THAT THE COUNTRY HAS A WIDE CLASS DIVIDE BETWEEN THE POOR AND THE RICH- WEALTH IS CONCENTRATED ON VERY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN POWER THERE, AND THE REST SUFFERS FOR IT. THESE COUNTRIES ARE POOR NOT BECAUSE THEY LACK RESOURCES, THEY ARE POOR BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN POWER ARE CORRUPT. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE AND THE TOWN IN THIS WORK, AND AGAIN, SINCE YOU KEEP DEFLECTING THIS- WHAT PRIVILEGE IS THE ML GETTING OUT OF HIS LEADERSHIP ROLE? LOL HE CAN'T EVEN GET MEDICINE IF HE HIMSELF GETS SICK, SO MUCH FOR YOUR PRIVILEGE.
• "AND I ASK ONCE AGAIN, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IF YOU WERE THE LEADER THEN, YOU THINK YOUR EQ AND APPEAL TO HOLD HANDS AND SING HAKUNA MATATA WOULD WORK? LMAO THEY MIGHT JUST FIND YOU USELESS IN THE END."
look for it on my page. it's there. well, yeah lol. they're humans, not beasts. why wouldn't they consider my alternative? well, you don't know that. you don't know these people yet, so this is biased. next. -IF YOU'RE SO CONFIDENT AT YOUR STANCE, WHY MAKE ME GO THROUGH IT, PUT IT IN THE SIMPLEST WAY THAT YOU CAN, YOU WROTE IT DIDN'T YOU? SURELY YOU CAN EXPLAIN IT BEST YOURSELF TOO LOL. ALSO, THE REASON WHY YOUR ALTERNATIVE WOULD FAIL BECAUSE IT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION A HUMAN IN A STABLE CONDITION, YOU APPLY THAT TO PEOPLE WITH THEIR MENTALITY, IN THAT TYPE OF WORLD, AND THE BEST YOU CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT THEY JUST TREAT YOU AS A NUTCASE AND LEAVE YOU ALONE. ASKING A STARVING PERSON WHO HAS HAD TO ENDURE HARSHIPS JUST TO GET A CRUMBLE OF FOOD TO JUST FORGIVE SOMEONE WHO STOLE THEIR VERY SUSTENANCE BECAUSE THEY NEED IT TOO, IS ASKING FOR A RUMBLE, AND WILL ALWAYS END IN A MESS. THAT CIVILIZED WAY OF HANDLING THINGS COULD ONLY WORK, IF AT LEAST ONE OF THEM WAS WELL FED AND CAN AFFORD TO GIVE HANDOUTS, WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT THE CASE IN THIS WORK.
• "ND AGAIN, WHAT ARE YOUR ALTERNATIVES TO THIS? YOU KEEP ON SAYING, HE SHOULD'VE DONE BETTER, SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE EFFECTIVE, BUT YOU NEVER GAVE ANY OTHER OPTION THAT'S FEASIBLE IN THIS TYPE OF SETTING."
- WHY SHOULD I? SUMMARIZE THAT CRAP, YOU WROTE IT, YOU'RE THE ONE TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOUR STANCE, AND HERE I AM DOING MINE
• "HOPING FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE IS GOOD, BUT ONE DOES NOT ARRIVE THERE WITHOUT STAB WOUNDS AND BROKEN LIMBS. IN EVERY SUCCESSFUL NATION, THERE IS ALWAYS A PERIOD OF BLOODBATH, AND THAT IS WHAT PAVES WAY FOR THEM TO EVENTUALLY MOVE ON AND BE BETTER."
i'm gonna chalk it up to personal trauma & bad dealings with others bc this is a nihilistic way at viewing things. sure, we go through hurdles, but violence is not effective long term. you end up with more issues than you started with. plus, they're a group, not a country. so violence is an even more extreme form of punishment & it could be harder for them to pull themselves out of that if EQ isn't implemented.-OH HOW IT MUST FEEL TO BE A SUMMER CHILD LIKE YOU, THINKING VIOLENCE IS NOT EFFECTIVE. LOOK AT ALL THE CHANGES, ALL THE REVOLUTIONS, ALL THE PIVOTAL POINTS IN HISTORY THAT CREATED THE BEST CIVILIZATIONS THAT EVER EXISTED, EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF THOSE WHERE STEEPED IN BLOOD AT SOME POINT (AGAIN, KEYWORD- *AT SOME POINT, COS YOU KEEP ASSUMING THAT I WANT THIS THING TO HAPPEN FOREVER WHEN CLEARLY I JUST SEE IT AS A TOOL TO EVENTUALLY REACH THE BETTER DESTINATION), YOU DON'T GAIN VAST POWER AND PRESTIGE BY SMILING AND SHAKING HANDS, EVERYTHING ALWAYS END UP ON THE EXTREME SIDE OF THINGS. THE BLACK MOVEMENT, GAY RIGHTS, WOMEN EMPOWERMENT, EVEN THE FREAKING INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION WERE ALL BLOODY TO SOME DEGREE AND LOOK WHERE WE ARE NOW. ALSO, JUST FROM YOUR ANSWER, I CAN ALREADY TELL YOU'RE A CITY FOLK, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS LIVED IN A SMALL VILLAGE, I CAN PERSONALLY ATTEST THAT THE SMALLER THE NUMBER OF A GROUP, THE MORE RADICAL AND EXTREME IT GETS, EVERYONE IS BREATHING DOWN EACH OTHER'S NECKS AND EVERYONE IS TRACKING EACH OTHER'S MOVES, WHICH TBF, DO HAVE IT'S UPS- IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY, THEY CAN TELL RIGHT AWAY. BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, IT IS SUFFOCATING. YOU ADD THE LIMITED RESOURCES, AND THE EXTERNAL THREAT OF ZOMBIES, WHY IS IT EVEN SURPRISING THAT THE PEOPLE OF THAT TOWN IS BEHAVING THAT WAY? CULTS THAT LIVED IN MODERN TIMES HAD FAR WORSE MEANS OF ENACTING THEIR PUNISHMENTS, THIS IS HARDLY SHOCKING.
no, not in this scenario, i'm not. when we use words like "treason" amongst a small group of people, it's a very loaded way in expressing an action/feeling. my whole point is to move away from extremism & to provide a balanced solution. stealing to help your sick son =/= death. - HOW IS THAT NOT TREASON WHEN THE THEFT WAS AN ENDANGERMENT TO THE TOWN? BECAUSE HE DID IT FOR HIS SON? SO WHAT? YOU THINK HE'S THE ONLY ONE IN THAT TOWN WHO HAS HAD SO WATCH THEIR CHILD SUFFER BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET MEDICINE? AGAIN, AS I SAID, THEY MAKE SACRIFICES BECAUSE THEY PRIORITIZE THE GROUP MORE. LET'S ASSUME THE MEDICINE DID HEAL THE SON, WHAT USE IS HIS LIFE WHEN THE TOWN IS IN SHAMBLES ANYWAY? HE'S GOING TO LIVE IN MISERY INSTEAD. AND BEFORE YOU CAN SAY IT'S JUST ONE MEDICINE, AGAIN, THE RESOURCES ARE STRICTLY KEPT IN CHECK BECAUSE EVEN ONE MEDICINE COULD MAKE OR BREAK THE STABILITY OF THE TOWN, YOU NEVER KNOW HOW LONG THE HOUNDS COULD TAKE TO GET ANOTHER ONE, IT COULD BE MONTHS CONSIDERING EVERYTHING IS IN RUINS AND FOR SURE THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY GROUP OUT THERE SCAVENGING EITHER.
right, this is where guwon steps in. he's the leader. i hold him more accountable bc he leads them & thus, influence their behavior. by giving them other options outside of compliance & death, we can come up with better ways to solve issues like this one. - LOL, AND YET YOU FAIL TO LIST OUT THESE OH SO FANTASTIC BETTER WAYS TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE LOL.
but look at what you just said--endure. the father is human. obviously he's not going to endure while his son is sick. these rules lack that empathetic nature in this scenario. theft isn't minor, but sickness & death isn't either. he risked his life to help his son. alternative punishment is better than just killing someone for not "enduring" enough.-HE RISKED HIS LIFE KNOWING THE IMPLICATION OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE GETS CAUGHT, THE LAW WAS NOT PUT SPECIFICALLY FOR HIM, IT WAS THERE BEFOREHAND, THEY WERE WARNED NOT TO DO IT, AND YET HE CHOSE TO DO IT STILL, EVERYONE IN THAT TOWN IS SUFFERING TO SOME EXTENT, HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH A LOVED ONE WHO GOT SICK AND HE'S NOT GOING TO BE THE LAST ONE EITHER. THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO ENDURE, BECAUSE TO GIVE OUT THE RESOURCES ONCE IS TO GIVE IT OUT OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT RUNS OUT AGAIN, WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COST.
you completely miss my point here & you never resolve the contradiction within my questions. if the doctor steals, is it ok to kill him? he's valuable to the group, but he's committed "treason." -BY THEIR LOGIC, THEN YES, THE DOCTOR WILL BE KILLED IF HE HIMSELF WERE TO BE FOUND OUT COMMITTING TREASON. EVERYONE IN THAT TOWN HAS A SPECIFIC PURPOSE OTHERWISE YOU CAN'T ENTER, MEANING THE FATHER HAD A ROLE IN THAT TOWN, HE WAS ALSO CONSIDERED VALUABLE, BUT BECAUSE HE STOLE, HE WAS KILLED NONETHELESS.
if you express that it would be ok to kill him, then you hurt your own argument. if it's all about protecting resources, then why kill off your most precious asset? if you make provisions for the doctor, then your rules are not as concrete & dire as you claim they are. -BECAUSE THE RESOURCES ARE MEDICINE AND FOOD, NOT HEALTHCARE? LOL, YOU DON'T NEED A DOCTOR TO ADMINISTER MEDICINE, OTHERWISE HOW WOULD THE FATHER DO IT TO HIS SON IN SECRET? DOCTORS ARE VALUABLE FOR CHECK UP AND PROFESSIONAL DIAGNOSIS, BUT THAT'S ALL THEY CAN DO, THEY CAN ONLY PRESCRIBE, WITHOUT MEDICINE THEY'RE JUST SPOUTING WORDS. AS FOR OTHER MEDICAL TREATMENTS LIKE BANDAGING AND SURGERY- THAT CAN BE LEARNED WITHOUT BEING A DOCTOR TOO (SOME BARBERS WERE EVEN SURGEONS IN THE PAST), AND SINCE THE TOWNSFOLK ALREADY KNOW WHICH MEDICINE WORKS (CONSIDERING THEY ARE ON THE LOOK OUT FOR THIS ON THEIR MISSIONS OUTSIDE), THEN IT JUST AMPLIFIES EVEN MORE THAT THE MEDICINE IS MORE VALUABLE TO THEM THAN THE DOCTOR.
i'm dead fucking ass. drastic measures means drastic behavior is ok. if they can kill someone for stealing, then what's stopping them from eating and/or eventually raping each other? remember, you said they were extremists. if that's the case, then rape, cannibalism, and slavery isn't off the table for them. you claimed that ethics isn't valuable here, so why are you getting offended? this is what people do when they lack ethics & principles. - JUSTIFICATION, THE REASON WHY DEATH DUE TO STEALING WAS OKAY FOR THEM WAS BECAUSE IT WAS JUSTIFIED IN THEIR SYSTEM. AND DID I NOT CONFIRM ALREADY THAT THESE ARE INDEED POSSIBILITIES TOO? THEY NEED TO KEEP THE RESOURCES IN CHECK BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA GO TO EVEN DRASTIC MEASURES LIKE CANNIBALISM JUST COZ THEY LITERALLY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO EAT; AND THEY WON'T DO THE RAPE THING EITHER BECAUSE THIS HAS A CHANCE OF BRINGING IN ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED, A MOUTH THAT SERVES NO PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S LITERALLY JUST A CHILD; PLUS WHEN YOU ARE PERPETUALLY WORKING FOR THE TOWN AND WEAK FROM LACK OF GOOD NUTRITION, WHO HAS THE TIME TO BE A CREEP? NOT SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN, IT COULD, BUT THE RAPIST WOULD MOST PROBABLY BE PUNISHED INSTEAD BECAUSE WHAT HE DID WAS MORE OF A THREAT TO THE TOWN. I AM NOT OFFENDED, I AM BAFFLED HOW YOU COULDN'T EVEN GRASP THIS CONCEPT AND STILL INSISTS THAT JUST GIVING A PASS TO STOLEN MEDICINE IS A MORE APPLICABLE METHOD OF HANDLING THIS CASE LMAO.
sure, that could happen, but that's not the only worst case scenario. you're not taking environmental, mental, etc. factors into account. like i said before, a valuable person could be killed next for breaking a rule & this could result in their social structure slowly collapsing, which would then devolve into them harming each other freely.- THEY ARE ALREADY AT THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, MENTALLY ALL THEY CARE IS PRESERVING THE TOWN BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN THE ALTERNATIVE- THE OUTSIDE; ENVIRONMENTALLY, IT'S A SIMILAR THING, THE WORLD THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN CONTINUES TO SHAPE THEIR PERCEPTION AND JUSTIFICATION WHICH COULD ONLY GO TO THE EXTREMES, UNLESS THEY HAVE ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE OR ANOTHER TOWN TO GO TO, THAT ONE IS LITERALLY THEIR LIFE AND DEATH, THEIR ONLY SALVATION. THE DEATH OF A VALUABLE PERSON WOULD INDEFINITELY BRING HARDSHIP AND ADJUSTMENT BUT IT WON'T NECESSARILY TRIGGER THE COLLAPSE, EVEN IF THE LEADER GETS KILLED THEY COULD JUST ELECT A NEW ONE THAT STILL FITS WITHIN THE CRITERIA. ALSO, UNLESS THERE IS A DIVISIVE GROUP WITHIN THE TOWN, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THEY WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER, BECAUSE AGAIN, THE ENEMY IS NOT WITHIN, BUT THE ZOMBIES OUTSIDE, THEY'D RATHER SUCK IT UP AND STICK TOGETHER THAN GO TRY TO MAKE IT ON THEIR OWN.
understand implication & cause > effect. this is your words: "YES! IF THE PLOT JUSTIFIES IT THEN ABSOLUTELY YES, I KEPT ON SAYING IT- THE GROUP ARE EXTREMISTS, IF HE LOSES THEIR FAVOR OR IF HE HIMSELF GOES AGAINST THEM, I FULLY EXPECT THEM TO HUNT HIM DOWN TOO" ---BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MAKES SENSE THE MOST ACCORDING TO THEIR MINDSET AND THE PLOT, YOU WANT ME TO SAY THEY WILL ABSOLVE HIM? HECK NO, IF HE THREATENS THE TOWN, IT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT GOING TO BE ANOTHER WITCH HUNT AND TRIAL EVEN FOR HIM TOO, BUT AGAIN IT STILL FALLS WITHIN THE VOTES, IF HE HAS ENOUGH LOYAL SUPPORTERS THOSE CAN GIVE HIM A FIGHTING CHANCE TO SURVIVE. BUT LET'S ASSUME HE GOT THE SAME TREATMENT AS THE DAD, EVERYONE VOTED FOR HIM TO BE KILLED FOR COMMITTING TREASON, THEN HE TOO WILL DIE FOR IT; BECAUSE IF HE WAS JUST PARDONED FOR BEING A FORMER LEADER DESPITE THE TOWN'S DECISION, THEN IT'S THE NEW LEADER THAT'S GOING TO BE PUT IN HOT WATERS INSTEAD, AND THOSE WHO VOTED FOR HIM TO DIE WILL FOREVER HATE HIM FOR GETTING SPARED, WHICH IS WHAT'S MOST LIKELY TO START A COUNTER FACTION SINCE THESE ARE NOW A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WITH ONE SINGLE GOAL- GET RID OF HIM.
prioritizing biological needs without taking their emotions into account isn't beneficial. if guwon can't change those beliefs, he's risking his life. personally, i don't want to see him dead, which is why i think social reform is needed before it's too late.--EASY FOR YOU TO SAY, YOU AIN'T LIVING IN THEIR WORLD, NOR ARE YOU LIVING IN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THEIR WORLD. EVEN IN THE HIERARCHY OF NEEDS, BIOLOGICAL NEEDS TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN EMOTIONAL AND SOCIAL NEEDS ARE UNNECESSARY, BUT AGAIN, UNLESS THEY MEET THE BASE, THERE'S NO WAY IT'S GOING TO MOVE UP.
yes, when jinwoo expressed how much he liked guwon, when guwon killed the father, when guwon is slapped by jinwoo... change can happen any and everywhere if he that's what he wants.--LOL HOW ARE THOSE OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE? THOSE AREN'T EVEN PIVOTAL MOMENTS TO THE PLOT, TO THE CHARACTERS SURE, BUT TO THE PLOT? HOW DOES THE MC SAYING HE LIKES THE ML CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE? YOU THINK THE TOWN GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THEIR ROMANCE ENOUGH TO FOLLOW WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY WANT TO CHANGE? WHEN GUWON KILLED THE FATHER, HOW IS THAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE WHEN AGAIN, THE PEOPLE VOTED, WANTED, AND DETERMINED THE DEATH OF THE DAD TOO? ALSO THE SLAP, LOL HOW EVEN IS THAT GOING TO MAKE A CHANGE IN THE TOWN? YOU KEEP ON MISTAKING HIM FOR A DICTATOR THAT HE JUST HAVE TO SAY THE WORD AND THE REST WILL NEED TO FOLLOW, BUT HE'S NOT, HE'S JUST THE LEADER, EVERYTHING IS STILL DECIDED BY THE ENTIRE TOWN (INCLUDING HIM)
change doesn't have to just emerge from bad events. change is active, not just passive. yeah, but that's what you DON'T want to happen. waiting until everything deteroriates could mean most of them dying or them losing resources. i don't think so.-I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN, BUT BASED OFF HISTORICAL DATA, IT IS SIMPLY WHAT HAPPENS, THAT'S WHY WARS ARE A COMPLETE WASTE AND SHOULD BE PREVENTED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. BUT AGAIN THAT'S NOT THE CASE WITH THE SETTING OF THE WORK, THEIR WAR IS WITH THE ZOMBIES, AN ENTITY THAT YOU CANNOT APPEAL TO BECAUSE DUH THEY'RE UNDEAD, SO THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO HIDE, IF NOT FOR THE HOUNDS REPLENISHING THE RESOURCES, THEY'RE PRACTICALLY ON A SIEGE WHERE THEY ARE "JUST WAITING UNTIL EVERYTHING DETERIORATES AND THE LOSE ALL THEIR RESOURCES", THAT'S WHY I SAY AGAIN HOW VALUABLE THESE RESOURCES ARE FOR THEM, GETTING DERANGED AT TRYING TO PROTECT IT SO MUCH AT THE COST OF MORALITY IS NOTHING SHORT OF REALISTIC.
um... that's not true? there's different ways to survive as long as your capable enough & adapt quickly. idk... i guess you have a thing for morally grey men or smthn. er... i like morally grey MMCs, but i'm not going to pretend i align with a character's beliefs/actions.-IN A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE? DIFFERENT WAYS TO SURVIVE LOL HOW? YOU GONNA FIGHT THE ZOMBIE ON YOUR OWN AND JUST ADAPT QUICKLY ON THAT? I LIKE MORALLY GRAY CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE INTERESTING AND REALISTIC, A HERO IS GOOD FOR LIFTING ONE'S HUMANISTIC SPIRIT BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A BARRIER TO BEING RELATABLE TO THEM SINCE YOU KNOW SUCH FIGURE WILL NEVER SURVIVE THE REAL WORLD (WHETHER PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, SO ON), AND EVEN IF SOMEONE CLAIMS TO BE ONE, THEY'RE MOST LIKELY THE OPPOSITE ANYWAY. I AM NOT ALIGNING WITH THE IDEOLOGIES OF THE CHARACTERS ON A PERSONAL LEVEL EITHER, I AM JUST INTERPRETING IT IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE AND IN ACCORDANCE TO THE WORLD BUILDING, I COULD READ NOVELS ABOUT SERIAL KILLERS AND FIND WAYS TO JUSTIFY WHY THEY DID IT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'LL GO OUT THERE AND COMMIT THE SAME CRIMES MYSELF.
“I SAID HE'S ILLITERATE AND UNEDUCATED MEANING HE'S PRONE TO BEING USED AS A TOOL, THAT DOESN'T ABSOLVE HIM THE FACT THAT HE KILLED SOMEONE, BUT ALSO DOESN'T ABSOLVE THE GROUP TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIM EITHER. MY QUALM HERE IS THAT YOU'RE THE ONE WHO INSIST ON VILLAINIZING HIM ALONE AND NOT THE OTHERS WHO WERE ALSO IN ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, THAT'S WHY I KEPT ON SAYING THAT IT IS A COLLECTIVE CHOICE.”
technically, they’re all tools. everybody is a resource. understand that i’m not villainizing guwon, but holding him accountable. their survival is dependent on how well he leads the group. i’m not wrong in fixating more on him vs. everybody else bc he is in charge.
“EXACTLY, THEY ARE USING/NEED EACH OTHER TO ASSURE SURVIVAL BY MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE COMMITS TO THE ROLE AND THE SYSTEM, MY ISSUE HERE IS THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE ROLE IS CLEARLY IMBALANCED, EVERYONE WANTS EACH OTHER TO BE ACCOUNTABLE BUT WHEN IT COMES TO EXECUTING THE PUNISHMENT, WHY IS IT ONLY THE ML WHO STRIKE AND KILL?”
how is it imbalanced if they all decided that this is what their roles would be? you FEEL like it’s imbalanced due to certain things that have taken place (guwon crying, his short monologue before killing the father, etc), but we don’t actually know if this is true. i mean we don’t know why he’s the main executor except for the context clues we’re given (i.e. him being strong & a leader).
“WHY DON'T THEY WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY WHEN THEY CLEARLY VOTED FOR THAT VERDICT THEMSELVES? NOT ONLY THAT, THEY EVEN MADE AN EFFORT TO INVESTIGATE, CAPTURE, AND PUT THE GUY ON TRIAL, THIS IS A CONCIOUS EFFORT, FROM THE MOMENT IT WAS KNOWN THAT THE MEDICINE WAS STOLEN, THEY WERE ON A WITCH HUNT AND THEY KNEW EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PUNISHMENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ASK, SO WHY IS IT ONLY THE ML WHO'S DOING IT ON THEIR BEHALF? YOU SAY GOOD ETHICS AND LEADERSHIP TO ELEVATE THE GROUP- LISTENING AND APPEASING YOUR SUBJECTS IS GOOD LEADERSHIP, SO WHAT MORE CAN HE DO HERE?”
voting is getting your hands dirty. a democratic system means EVERYBODY must be actively involved for it to work. again, guwon is the leader. all we know is they found the rat. there’s a big possibility he put them on a mission to seek the rat out. this is why i can’t take you seriously bc you act like he wouldn’t have them find the rat so he can execute them. some of the stuff you’re writing is based on how you feel & speculation. good ethics & leadership means critical thinking, planning, empathy, & problem solving. killing off your subjects isn’t not a long term strategy nor is it objectively beneficial for their survival.
“ LMAO THAT'S WHY I KEEP SAYING DON'T WAIT FOR WORDS TO BE SPELLED OUT FOR YOU, THE PANELS CLEARLY SAID "THERE WAS A TIME WHEN OVERUSE AND CARELESSNESS LEAD TO THE DEATH OF A HOUND.." THAT NOT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU? THEY WERE GRANTED ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES BEFORE, THEY ABUSED IT, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE IN THIS EXTREMIST WAY OF RUNNING THINGS. THE THING THAT YOU WANT, WERE EVERYONE GETS ACCESS TO THE THINGS- THAT ALREADY HAPPENED, AND THAT ALREADY FAILED, WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW IS THE RESULT OF AIDING IN THAT CATASTROPHE.”
i’m not saying i want everyone to have access to things. i told you, i want better leadership & ethics. harsh punishment doesn’t ensure survival. their system obviously isn’t working if someone is stealing to get their needs met. they need a better system.
“ AND STILL YOU DON'T PROVIDE SAMPLES, LOL. YOU JUST LOVE SAYING OH ETHICS AND MORALS, THEY'LL GAIN SYMPATHY FOR EACH OTHER- THESE THINGS ARE ALREADY INNATE IN HUMANS, IT IS ALREADY WITHIN US. BUT WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN SQUALOR WITH VERY LIMITED OPTIONS, THESE THINGS ARE USELESS AND COULD EVEN BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR DOWNFALL. SO I'M ASKING AGAIN, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN IF THE DAD WAS SPARED? PLOTWISE? YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME GRAND REVELATION TO THESE FOLK AND THEY'D BE GUILT RIDDEN FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY SUPPORTED SO FAR? HOW NAIVE YOU ARE.”
either go to my page or fill in the blanks in your head. sympathy & empathy aren’t fully innate, which is why i want guwon to implement it. if you think i’m naive, ok. i already explained why extremism isn’t the way to go.
“ DAFUQ ARE YOU HIGH? I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S THE ML OR THE DAD, RULES ARE RULES, THEY WILL KILL THE CRIMINAL REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS. FOR A TOWN THAT AGAIN, ONLY HAS SURVIVAL AS ITS END GOAL, THERE IS NO BETTER PRINCIPLE THAN MAKING SURE EVERY LOOSE END IS ADDRESSED, AND ANY POTENTIAL FOR DISASTER IS MITIGATED. THAT IS WHAT THEY LIVE BY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN SHAPES THEM UP TO BE, YOU KEEP TRYING TO PUT PRINCIPLES THAT CAN ONLY WORK IN A STABLE NATION IN A TURBULENT ONE LIKE THEM WHEN IT CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK.”
no. reread your words again & understand my argument. 1) i want ethics, 2) guwon needs to become a better leader & implement those ethics, 3) not having ethics will eventually result in the group’s death & 4) guwon being executed. your words explain the cause & effect that i want to avoid: "IF THE ML WAS IN THE FATHER'S SHOES, ASSUMING LET'S SAY HE STOLE MEDICINE FOR THE MC, HE GOT CAUGHT AND WAS PUT ON TRIAL TO BE KILLED, LET'S SAY THERE'S ANOTHER EXECUTIONER WHO IS TAKING THE ROLE OF THE PUNISHER, YOU THINK HE WILL BE SPARED WHEN AGAIN, THE TOWN CONSIDERS THEFT A GRAND OFFENSE? HE WOULD BE KILLED TOO BECAUSE THAT'S THE TYPE OF JUSTICE THAT THEY ADHERE TO."
if you can’t understand that then idk what to tell you. they reach stability through foundational principles that involve good ethics.
“AND AGAIN I ASK HOW IS HE PRIVILEGED? YOU DO KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD RIGHT? IT MEANS YOU GET PERKS, SO WHAT EVEN IS HE GETTING OUT OF HIS ROLE AS THE LEADER OF THIS TOWN?”
it’s quite scary how you don’t understand what privilege means. it’s like you have a childlike way of looking at things. i’ve explained it to you countlessly. reread my words again.
“ DAFUQ YOU TALKING ABOUT? I SAID THE PEOPLE WANTED A LEADER BECAUSE THEY NEED SOMEONE TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS FOR THEM AS A TOWN NOT AS INDIVIDUALS, THEY NEEDED SOMEONE WHO CAN WALK THE WALK AND TALK THE TALK- THE ML IS CHOSEN BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD (WHICH WAS ALREADY SHOWN THROUGHOUT THE PLOT VIA HIS INTERACTION WITH THE TOWNSFOLK AND THE MC), AND GOAL-ORIENTED (SHOWN ON HIS MISSIONS TO ONLY BRING BACK WHATEVER'S USEFUL FOR THE TOWN) AS HIM, EVEN SETTING ASIDE HIS STRENGTH WHICH IS ALREADY AN IMMENSE PLUS- THESE CRITERIA IS WHAT MADE THEM CHOOSE HIM AS THEIR LEADER, OR AT LEAST STAND BY HIM IN SUPPORT.”
congratulations, now you understand what privilege means. you inserting how you feel about the town & the setting doesn’t negate privilege. privilege exists in every facet of life no matter how bad a setting/situation is.
“ FIRST, A PERSON COULD BE UNEDUCATED AND USED AS A TOOL WITHIN AGENCY, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT WHEN I ASKED WHEN DID I SAY HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE COZ YOU KEPT INSISTING THAT I'M IMPLYING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. (READING COMPREHENSION- TRY IT INSTEAD OF FLAUNTING WORDS YOU CAN BARELY BREAKDOWN LMAO)”
i broke it down fine. everybody is a tool, so everybody is a victim. you stating him being used as a tool & being uneducated implies lack of agency. that’s why your argument makes no sense. you keep looking at things based on how you feel about their situation to decide if guwon is privileged or not.
“ LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU SINCE YOU CLEARLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT- HE'S STUPID, AND HE'S OPENLY USED BY THE TOWN, BUT HE'S NOT OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT- HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING, WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO HIM, HE'S AWARE OF HIS ROLE, BUT HE IS STILL MAKING A CONCIOUS DECISION TO STICK WITH IT BECAUSE EITHER HE COMPLETELY AGREES WITH THE TOWN'S GOAL OR HE HAS SOMETHING ELSE UP HIS SLEEVES. SECOND, HE MIGHT BE THE LEADER, BUT HE IS NOT A DICTATOR, EVEN IF HE PERSONALLY DISAGREES WITH THE CONSENSUS OF THE GROUP, YOU REALLY BELIEVE HE CAN JUST GO AGAINST THEM IF HE HAS A DIFFERENT PREFERENCE? THE PEOPLE EXPECT HIM TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE TOWN, IF THEY DEEM HIS DECISION NOT UP TO THEIR EXPECTATION, THEY CAN AND WILL TURN AGAINST HIM. THE PRIVILEGE THAT YOU KEEP SPEAKING OF WOULD ONLY WORK IF HE ACTUALLY HAS POWER OVER THEM, BUT HE DOES NOT, HE'S JUST THE FIGUREHEAD, ASIDE FROM HIS TITLE, HE OWNS NOTHING JUST LIKE THE REST.”
you mentioning his stupidity means nothing bc he’s still privileged. everybody is being used. the whole point is using your skills to benefit the group. everything else is fan fiction and/or speculation, so i’m disregarding it. o_o
“ NO, NOW IT'S YOU WHO ASSUMES THAT THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM LOL, THIS ONE WAS NOT IN THE WORK, AT LEAST NOT YET, SO FAR WHAT PEOPLE HAS SHOWN HIM WAS RESPECT, THEY WEREN'T FUMBLINGG WHEN HE APPEARED, AND THEY SEEM TO APPROACH HIM EASILY TOO. MATTER OF FACT, THEY WELCOMED HIM WHEN HE RETURNED BACK FROM THE MISSION AND EVEN WHEN SPEAKING TO HIM THEY ARE CASUAL ABOUT IT, EVEN GREETING HIM IN PUBLIC- YOU TOOK THAT THAT AS A SIGN OF PEOPLE LIVING IN FEAR? LOL THE HOUSE WAS A GIFT NOT BECAUSE HE WANTED IT BUT BECAUSE IT CAME WITH THE IMAGE OF A LEADER, JUST LIKE HOW HIS "LOOKS" FIT THAT OF A LEADER, MEANING ASIDE FROM THE TRAITS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, HE IS A FRIGHTENING AND DOMINANT LOOKING DUDE TOO, AND THAT IS EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU WANT OTHERS TO BE KEPT IN LINE; NOT AS MUCH PEOPLE WOULD TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY IF HE LOOKED LIKE THE MC, UNLESS HE HAS AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF CREDENTIALS UNDER HIS BELT TO MAKE UP FOR IT.”
they are scared of him. in ch. 6, starting on pg. 57, we see jinwoo eating with the girl & the vet. they come across as friendly (except for the girl who is snappy, but she still converses with jinwoo). on pg. 65, guwon enters the scene, cutting their conversation short by talking to jinwoo. on pg. 68, the girl & the vet get silent all of a sudden. you can even see the vet physically sweating as if he’s nervous. on pg. 75-76, we see the two leave without really saying a goodbye. throughout this entire scene, guwon never acknowledges their existence. the juxtaposition of him being happy while they’re silent speaks volumes. it implies there’s more to guwon than what he’s letting on. so, i’m going to take everything you said here as speculation or fan fiction & disregard it.
“ LOL THERE ARE HISTORICAL RECORDS SHOWING THE VILENESS HUMANITY WILL GO TO WHEN PUSHED TO AN EXTREME SITUATION, WHETHER BY GROUP OR INDIVIDUALLY, ON TOP OF THAT THERE ARE ALREADY STUDIES CONFIRMING THAT HUMANS DO HAVE TO TURN VIOLENCE WHEN THE BASIC NEEDS ARE NOT MET. ALSO WHY DAFUQ WOULD I GO TO YOUR LIST? YOU GOT THE OTHER WAYS THAT THEY COULD'VE HANDLED THE CRIME THERE? LOL, YOU'RE JUST BLUFFING COZ YOU CAN'T REALLY PROVIDE EVEN A SINGLE ONE.”
ok, so we can skip this argument then. i already explained myself… go look for the list or reread my arguments.
“ PEOPLE FIGHT FOR POWER IN POOR COUNTRIES BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO GET WEALTH AS A PERSON OF POWER THERE. EVERY POOR COUNTRY THAT YOU CAN THINK YOU, THROW AT ME, AND I BET MY LEFT NUT SACK THAT THE COUNTRY HAS A WIDE CLASS DIVIDE BETWEEN THE POOR AND THE RICH- WEALTH IS CONCENTRATED ON VERY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN POWER THERE, AND THE REST SUFFERS FOR IT. THESE COUNTRIES ARE POOR NOT BECAUSE THEY LACK RESOURCES, THEY ARE POOR BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN POWER ARE CORRUPT. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE AND THE TOWN IN THIS WORK, AND AGAIN, SINCE YOU KEEP DEFLECTING THIS- WHAT PRIVILEGE IS THE ML GETTING OUT OF HIS LEADERSHIP ROLE? LOL HE CAN'T EVEN GET MEDICINE IF HE HIMSELF GETS SICK, SO MUCH FOR YOUR PRIVILEGE.”
right, so they’re fighting for privilege (leadership, status, etc). these countries do lack resources… that’s one aspect on why they’re poor. the resources they do have is concentrated at the top. who is at the top? leaders. who are the leaders? politicians, wealthy families, corporations, etc. future arguments that you have toward this talking point will be disregarded bc you’re dumb lmaoooo. google is free.
“ IF YOU'RE SO CONFIDENT AT YOUR STANCE, WHY MAKE ME GO THROUGH IT, PUT IT IN THE SIMPLEST WAY THAT YOU CAN, YOU WROTE IT DIDN'T YOU? SURELY YOU CAN EXPLAIN IT BEST YOURSELF TOO LOL. ALSO, THE REASON WHY YOUR ALTERNATIVE WOULD FAIL BECAUSE IT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION A HUMAN IN A STABLE CONDITION, YOU APPLY THAT TO PEOPLE WITH THEIR MENTALITY, IN THAT TYPE OF WORLD, AND THE BEST YOU CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT THEY JUST TREAT YOU AS A NUTCASE AND LEAVE YOU ALONE. ASKING A STARVING PERSON WHO HAS HAD TO ENDURE HARSHIPS JUST TO GET A CRUMBLE OF FOOD TO JUST FORGIVE SOMEONE WHO STOLE THEIR VERY SUSTENANCE BECAUSE THEY NEED IT TOO, IS ASKING FOR A RUMBLE, AND WILL ALWAYS END IN A MESS. THAT CIVILIZED WAY OF HANDLING THINGS COULD ONLY WORK, IF AT LEAST ONE OF THEM WAS WELL FED AND CAN AFFORD TO GIVE HANDOUTS, WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT THE CASE IN THIS WORK.”
i’m confident bc of my beliefs. if you want the list so bad, go fetch.
“ WHY SHOULD I? SUMMARIZE THAT CRAP, YOU WROTE IT, YOU'RE THE ONE TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOUR STANCE, AND HERE I AM DOING MINE”
nah, i don’t think i will. you can go look for it tho.
“ OH HOW IT MUST FEEL TO BE A SUMMER CHILD LIKE YOU, THINKING VIOLENCE IS NOT EFFECTIVE. LOOK AT ALL THE CHANGES, ALL THE REVOLUTIONS, ALL THE PIVOTAL POINTS IN HISTORY THAT CREATED THE BEST CIVILIZATIONS THAT EVER EXISTED, EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF THOSE WHERE STEEPED IN BLOOD AT SOME POINT (AGAIN, KEYWORD- *AT SOME POINT, COS YOU KEEP ASSUMING THAT I WANT THIS THING TO HAPPEN FOREVER WHEN CLEARLY I JUST SEE IT AS A TOOL TO EVENTUALLY REACH THE BETTER DESTINATION), YOU DON'T GAIN VAST POWER AND PRESTIGE BY SMILING AND SHAKING HANDS, EVERYTHING ALWAYS END UP ON THE EXTREME SIDE OF THINGS. THE BLACK MOVEMENT, GAY RIGHTS, WOMEN EMPOWERMENT, EVEN THE FREAKING INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION WERE ALL BLOODY TO SOME DEGREE AND LOOK WHERE WE ARE NOW. ALSO, JUST FROM YOUR ANSWER, I CAN ALREADY TELL YOU'RE A CITY FOLK, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS LIVED IN A SMALL VILLAGE, I CAN PERSONALLY ATTEST THAT THE SMALLER THE NUMBER OF A GROUP, THE MORE RADICAL AND EXTREME IT GETS, EVERYONE IS BREATHING DOWN EACH OTHER'S NECKS AND EVERYONE IS TRACKING EACH OTHER'S MOVES, WHICH TBF, DO HAVE IT'S UPS- IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY, THEY CAN TELL RIGHT AWAY. BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, IT IS SUFFOCATING. YOU ADD THE LIMITED RESOURCES, AND THE EXTERNAL THREAT OF ZOMBIES, WHY IS IT EVEN SURPRISING THAT THE PEOPLE OF THAT TOWN IS BEHAVING THAT WAY? CULTS THAT LIVED IN MODERN TIMES HAD FAR WORSE MEANS OF ENACTING THEIR PUNISHMENTS, THIS IS HARDLY SHOCKING.”
um… you talk about my reading comprehension, but i guess you can’t read either. my words: “ sure, we go through hurdles, but violence is not effective long term. you end up with more issues than you started with.”
i never said it isn’t effective. i said it’s not effective LONG TERM. i even agreed with you by expressing how people go through hurdles, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy to use. so everything else, i’m disregarding bc a) i already explained this concept to you & b) no matter what you say, ethics is the right choice for survival. take it or leave it girlie pop.
“ HOW IS THAT NOT TREASON WHEN THE THEFT WAS AN ENDANGERMENT TO THE TOWN? BECAUSE HE DID IT FOR HIS SON? SO WHAT? YOU THINK HE'S THE ONLY ONE IN THAT TOWN WHO HAS HAD SO WATCH THEIR CHILD SUFFER BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET MEDICINE? AGAIN, AS I SAID, THEY MAKE SACRIFICES BECAUSE THEY PRIORITIZE THE GROUP MORE. LET'S ASSUME THE MEDICINE DID HEAL THE SON, WHAT USE IS HIS LIFE WHEN THE TOWN IS IN SHAMBLES ANYWAY? HE'S GOING TO LIVE IN MISERY INSTEAD. AND BEFORE YOU CAN SAY IT'S JUST ONE MEDICINE, AGAIN, THE RESOURCES ARE STRICTLY KEPT IN CHECK BECAUSE EVEN ONE MEDICINE COULD MAKE OR BREAK THE STABILITY OF THE TOWN, YOU NEVER KNOW HOW LONG THE HOUNDS COULD TAKE TO GET ANOTHER ONE, IT COULD BE MONTHS CONSIDERING EVERYTHING IS IN RUINS AND FOR SURE THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY GROUP OUT THERE SCAVENGING EITHER.”
like i’ve said, you have a nihilistic pov & think everybody else in this setting should just fall in line with authoritative rules bc you feel like that’s the only way to survive. your limited worldview is not everybody else’s reality. saying his kid deserves to die anyway bc he’s going to suffer makes no sense. that’s like saying, “why are they fighting so hard to survive? they’re just going to die anyway.” the whole point of the plot is to survive.
“ HE RISKED HIS LIFE KNOWING THE IMPLICATION OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE GETS CAUGHT, THE LAW WAS NOT PUT SPECIFICALLY FOR HIM, IT WAS THERE BEFOREHAND, THEY WERE WARNED NOT TO DO IT, AND YET HE CHOSE TO DO IT STILL, EVERYONE IN THAT TOWN IS SUFFERING TO SOME EXTENT, HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH A LOVED ONE WHO GOT SICK AND HE'S NOT GOING TO BE THE LAST ONE EITHER. THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO ENDURE, BECAUSE TO GIVE OUT THE RESOURCES ONCE IS TO GIVE IT OUT OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT RUNS OUT AGAIN, WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO AVOID AT ALL COST.”
ok, well we can elevate some of the suffering by implementing better ethics. we can be both pragmatic & empathetic.
“ BY THEIR LOGIC, THEN YES, THE DOCTOR WILL BE KILLED IF HE HIMSELF WERE TO BE FOUND OUT COMMITTING TREASON. EVERYONE IN THAT TOWN HAS A SPECIFIC PURPOSE OTHERWISE YOU CAN'T ENTER, MEANING THE FATHER HAD A ROLE IN THAT TOWN, HE WAS ALSO CONSIDERED VALUABLE, BUT BECAUSE HE STOLE, HE WAS KILLED NONETHELESS.”
but that wouldn’t be their logic if they need the doctor to survive, so there’s a contradiction here. you’d be dishonest to say they’d kill him off for breaking a rule lol. this is why your arguments make no sense girlie pop.
“ BECAUSE THE RESOURCES ARE MEDICINE AND FOOD, NOT HEALTHCARE? LOL, YOU DON'T NEED A DOCTOR TO ADMINISTER MEDICINE, OTHERWISE HOW WOULD THE FATHER DO IT TO HIS SON IN SECRET? DOCTORS ARE VALUABLE FOR CHECK UP AND PROFESSIONAL DIAGNOSIS, BUT THAT'S ALL THEY CAN DO, THEY CAN ONLY PRESCRIBE, WITHOUT MEDICINE THEY'RE JUST SPOUTING WORDS. AS FOR OTHER MEDICAL TREATMENTS LIKE BANDAGING AND SURGERY- THAT CAN BE LEARNED WITHOUT BEING A DOCTOR TOO (SOME BARBERS WERE EVEN SURGEONS IN THE PAST), AND SINCE THE TOWNSFOLK ALREADY KNOW WHICH MEDICINE WORKS (CONSIDERING THEY ARE ON THE LOOK OUT FOR THIS ON THEIR MISSIONS OUTSIDE), THEN IT JUST AMPLIFIES EVEN MORE THAT THE MEDICINE IS MORE VALUABLE TO THEM THAN THE DOCTOR.”
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
NO FUCKING WAY! you don’t think they’d need a healthcare worker? so why let him join the group if he’s easily discardable? you said they’re trying to survive & resources are everything. a doctor isn’t a resource????????? you sound dumb asf.
“ JUSTIFICATION, THE REASON WHY DEATH DUE TO STEALING WAS OKAY FOR THEM WAS BECAUSE IT WAS JUSTIFIED IN THEIR SYSTEM. AND DID I NOT CONFIRM ALREADY THAT THESE ARE INDEED POSSIBILITIES TOO? THEY NEED TO KEEP THE RESOURCES IN CHECK BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA GO TO EVEN DRASTIC MEASURES LIKE CANNIBALISM JUST COZ THEY LITERALLY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO EAT; AND THEY WON'T DO THE RAPE THING EITHER BECAUSE THIS HAS A CHANCE OF BRINGING IN ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED, A MOUTH THAT SERVES NO PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S LITERALLY JUST A CHILD; PLUS WHEN YOU ARE PERPETUALLY WORKING FOR THE TOWN AND WEAK FROM LACK OF GOOD NUTRITION, WHO HAS THE TIME TO BE A CREEP? NOT SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN, IT COULD, BUT THE RAPIST WOULD MOST PROBABLY BE PUNISHED INSTEAD BECAUSE WHAT HE DID WAS MORE OF A THREAT TO THE TOWN. I AM NOT OFFENDED, I AM BAFFLED HOW YOU COULDN'T EVEN GRASP THIS CONCEPT AND STILL INSISTS THAT JUST GIVING A PASS TO STOLEN MEDICINE IS A MORE APPLICABLE METHOD OF HANDLING THIS CASE LMAO.
well based on your previous answer, i know they’d definitely devolve into depravity if you were their leader or a member in their group. you think they would kill a doctor for breaking a rule, but they wouldn’t eventually partake in horrific behaviors once things get worse. you just admitted they’re willing to cut their nose off (a valuable asset) if it means they broke a rule. that’s a depraved mindset.
“ THEY ARE ALREADY AT THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, MENTALLY ALL THEY CARE IS PRESERVING THE TOWN BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN THE ALTERNATIVE- THE OUTSIDE; ENVIRONMENTALLY, IT'S A SIMILAR THING, THE WORLD THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN CONTINUES TO SHAPE THEIR PERCEPTION AND JUSTIFICATION WHICH COULD ONLY GO TO THE EXTREMES, UNLESS THEY HAVE ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE OR ANOTHER TOWN TO GO TO, THAT ONE IS LITERALLY THEIR LIFE AND DEATH, THEIR ONLY SALVATION. THE DEATH OF A VALUABLE PERSON WOULD INDEFINITELY BRING HARDSHIP AND ADJUSTMENT BUT IT WON'T NECESSARILY TRIGGER THE COLLAPSE, EVEN IF THE LEADER GETS KILLED THEY COULD JUST ELECT A NEW ONE THAT STILL FITS WITHIN THE CRITERIA. ALSO, UNLESS THERE IS A DIVISIVE GROUP WITHIN THE TOWN, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THEY WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER, BECAUSE AGAIN, THE ENEMY IS NOT WITHIN, BUT THE ZOMBIES OUTSIDE, THEY'D RATHER SUCK IT UP AND STICK TOGETHER THAN GO TRY TO MAKE IT ON THEIR OWN.”
nope, this isn’t even a worst case scenario. once things devolve into rape, cannibalism, pedophilia, & slavery, then we should be worried.
“ EASY FOR YOU TO SAY, YOU AIN'T LIVING IN THEIR WORLD, NOR ARE YOU LIVING IN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THEIR WORLD. EVEN IN THE HIERARCHY OF NEEDS, BIOLOGICAL NEEDS TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN EMOTIONAL AND SOCIAL NEEDS ARE UNNECESSARY, BUT AGAIN, UNLESS THEY MEET THE BASE, THERE'S NO WAY IT'S GOING TO MOVE UP.”
i’m still standing 10 toes on it. either implement better ethics or die.
“ LOL HOW ARE THOSE OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE? THOSE AREN'T EVEN PIVOTAL MOMENTS TO THE PLOT, TO THE CHARACTERS SURE, BUT TO THE PLOT? HOW DOES THE MC SAYING HE LIKES THE ML CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE? YOU THINK THE TOWN GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THEIR ROMANCE ENOUGH TO FOLLOW WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY WANT TO CHANGE? WHEN GUWON KILLED THE FATHER, HOW IS THAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHANGE WHEN AGAIN, THE PEOPLE VOTED, WANTED, AND DETERMINED THE DEATH OF THE DAD TOO? ALSO THE SLAP, LOL HOW EVEN IS THAT GOING TO MAKE A CHANGE IN THE TOWN? YOU KEEP ON MISTAKING HIM FOR A DICTATOR THAT HE JUST HAVE TO SAY THE WORD AND THE REST WILL NEED TO FOLLOW, BUT HE'S NOT, HE'S JUST THE LEADER, EVERYTHING IS STILL DECIDED BY THE ENTIRE TOWN (INCLUDING HIM)”
yup, change exists in every facet of life. to be fair, the story is still in its beginning stages, but the opportunities are still there. i want guwon to utilize it.
“ I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN, BUT BASED OFF HISTORICAL DATA, IT IS SIMPLY WHAT HAPPENS, THAT'S WHY WARS ARE A COMPLETE WASTE AND SHOULD BE PREVENTED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. BUT AGAIN THAT'S NOT THE CASE WITH THE SETTING OF THE WORK, THEIR WAR IS WITH THE ZOMBIES, AN ENTITY THAT YOU CANNOT APPEAL TO BECAUSE DUH THEY'RE UNDEAD, SO THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO HIDE, IF NOT FOR THE HOUNDS REPLENISHING THE RESOURCES, THEY'RE PRACTICALLY ON A SIEGE WHERE THEY ARE "JUST WAITING UNTIL EVERYTHING DETERIORATES AND THE LOSE ALL THEIR RESOURCES", THAT'S WHY I SAY AGAIN HOW VALUABLE THESE RESOURCES ARE FOR THEM, GETTING DERANGED AT TRYING TO PROTECT IT SO MUCH AT THE COST OF MORALITY IS NOTHING SHORT OF REALISTIC.”
nah… you’ve been mixing your feelings into stuff. right, the zombies. things are already hard, so why make it harder by killing off your own?
“ IN A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE? DIFFERENT WAYS TO SURVIVE LOL HOW? YOU GONNA FIGHT THE ZOMBIE ON YOUR OWN AND JUST ADAPT QUICKLY ON THAT? I LIKE MORALLY GRAY CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE INTERESTING AND REALISTIC, A HERO IS GOOD FOR LIFTING ONE'S HUMANISTIC SPIRIT BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A BARRIER TO BEING RELATABLE TO THEM SINCE YOU KNOW SUCH FIGURE WILL NEVER SURVIVE THE REAL WORLD (WHETHER PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, SO ON), AND EVEN IF SOMEONE CLAIMS TO BE ONE, THEY'RE MOST LIKELY THE OPPOSITE ANYWAY. I AM NOT ALIGNING WITH THE IDEOLOGIES OF THE CHARACTERS ON A PERSONAL LEVEL EITHER, I AM JUST INTERPRETING IT IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE AND IN ACCORDANCE TO THE WORLD BUILDING, I COULD READ NOVELS ABOUT SERIAL KILLERS AND FIND WAYS TO JUSTIFY WHY THEY DID IT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'LL GO OUT THERE AND COMMIT THE SAME CRIMES MYSELF.”
yeah, ever watch the walking dead? there’s more than one way to sustain a community. ah… i see. you’re like one of those edgy, “realistic” thinkers who think these complexities are just human nature & people succumb to their real nature in settings like this. gotcha. it makes sense tbh. i’m not saying this line of thinking is wrong per say, but it’s cringey lmaooo. maybe touch grass & talk to more people bc you give off the vibes that you subconsciously think the worst of others.
technically, they’re all tools. everybody is a resource. understand that i’m not villainizing guwon, but holding him accountable. their survival is dependent on how well he leads the group. i’m not wrong in fixating more on him vs. everybody else bc he is in charge. --YOU ARE- THE FACT ALONE THAT YOU KEEP ON INSISTING THAT IT IS HIM WHO WILL BE PUNISHED WHEN MET WITH THE SAME FATE AS THE FATHER "IMPLIES" THAT YOU ONLY REGARD WHAT HE DID AS VILLANOUS, BUT NOT THE PEOPLE LETTING HIM GET THE GREEN SIGNAL FOR IT. THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING, YOU TAKE HIM DOWN, YOU TAKE THE REST OF THE GROUP DOWN, BECAUSE THEY ALL DECIDED IT, SO IF SOMEONE WERE TO BE ANGRY AT HIM FOR KILLING SAY, A LOVED ONE? WHY ONLY TO HIM? THE ENTIRE TOWN MADE THAT DECISION.
how is it imbalanced if they all decided that this is what their roles would be? you FEEL like it’s imbalanced due to certain things that have taken place (guwon crying, his short monologue before killing the father, etc), but we don’t actually know if this is true. i mean we don’t know why he’s the main executor except for the context clues we’re given (i.e. him being strong & a leader).-LOL, BECAUSE THERE IS CLEAR DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THEIR WANT AND ACTIONS, THE VERDICT IS THE SAME WHETHER THE TOWN OR THE ML (MATTER OF FACT THE ML DIDN'T EVEN VOTE, HE JUST WENT WITH THE AGREED VERDICT), THEY ALL KILLED THE FATHER AS PUNISHMENT, BUT THEY COULD'VE DONE IT COLLECTIVELY TOO-COULD'VE STONED HIM TO DEATH, COULD'VE BLUDGEONED HIM WITH THEIR OWN BATS TOO, AND AS LEADER, IT COULD'VE BEEN THE ML WHO'S SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE FINAL GO FOR IT, BUT IT'S THE OPPOSITE HERE, THEY WANT TO SEE THE JUSTICE, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO ENFORCCE IT THEMSELVES.
voting is getting your hands dirty. a democratic system means EVERYBODY must be actively involved for it to work. again, guwon is the leader. all we know is they found the rat. there’s a big possibility he put them on a mission to seek the rat out. this is why i can’t take you seriously bc you act like he wouldn’t have them find the rat so he can execute them. some of the stuff you’re writing is based on how you feel & speculation. good ethics & leadership means critical thinking, planning, empathy, & problem solving. killing off your subjects isn’t not a long term strategy nor is it objectively beneficial for their survival.-HOW IS WHAT I'M WRITING BASED ON MY BELIEFS AND SPECULATIONS WHEN IN EVERY RESPONSE THAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU, I PROVIDED SAMPLE AND EVIDENCE EITHER FROM THE ACTUAL WORK OR FACTUAL HISTORICAL EVIDENCE? IT'S YOU WHO INSISTS ON YOUR NAIVE IDEOLOGIES THAT ONLY WORKS IN A SMOOTH ASS WORLD THAT'S FAR FETCHED EVEN FROM REALITY. EVEN IF HE DID SET THEM OUT ON A MISSION TO FIND THE RAT, THE FACT THAT THEY WENT WITH IT, AND MADE AN EFFORT TO FULFILL IT STILL FALLS WITHIN THEIR DETERMINATION TO GET THE JUSTICE THAT THE TOWN DESERVES.
i’m not saying i want everyone to have access to things. i told you, i want better leadership & ethics. harsh punishment doesn’t ensure survival. their system obviously isn’t working if someone is stealing to get their needs met. they need a better system.-WHEN MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION HAS A TENDENCY OF ABUSING A LOOSE AND OPEN SYSTEM, THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO RESTATE THE LAW, AND DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH MORE INCIDENTS OCCUR AFTER, THAT LAW GETS RESTATED OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT REACHES TO THE LEVEL OF EXTREMITY LIKE BEING SHOWN IN THIS WORK- WHICH IS WHY I ASKED DO YOU THINK THEY JUST WOKE UP AND DECIDED THAT DEATH IS THE RIGHT PUNISHMENT FOR THEFT? LOL, IT COULD'VE BEEN THAT THEY PUT UP A LESSER PUNISHMENT BEFORE BUT THAT WASN'T ENOUGH TO DETER THIEVES, ML EVEN SAID SO IN HIS MONOLOGUES THAT HE SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE STRICTER SO THAT IT DIDN'T LEAD TO THAT CONCLUSION, BUT THERE IS NOTHING ELSE MORE TO DEATH SO THEIR LAW CANNOT BE REINSTATED ANY FURTHER THAN THAT.
“ AND STILL YOU DON'T PROVIDE SAMPLES, LOL. YOU JUST LOVE SAYING OH ETHICS AND MORALS, THEY'LL GAIN SYMPATHY FOR EACH OTHER- THESE THINGS ARE ALREADY INNATE IN HUMANS, IT IS ALREADY WITHIN US. BUT WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN SQUALOR WITH VERY LIMITED OPTIONS, THESE THINGS ARE USELESS AND COULD EVEN BE THE CAUSE OF YOUR DOWNFALL. SO I'M ASKING AGAIN, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN IF THE DAD WAS SPARED? PLOTWISE? YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME GRAND REVELATION TO THESE FOLK AND THEY'D BE GUILT RIDDEN FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY SUPPORTED SO FAR? HOW NAIVE YOU ARE.”
either go to my page or fill in the blanks in your head. sympathy & empathy aren’t fully innate, which is why i want guwon to implement it. if you think i’m naive, ok. i already explained why extremism isn’t the way to go.-NO YOU DID NOT, YOU KEPT SAYING YOU DID, BUT GO BACK TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID AND FIND THAT YOU YOURSELF CONTRADICTS YOUR OWN WORDS, ALL YOU SAY IS THAT YOU BELIEVE EQ AND EMPATHY IS THE WAY TO SURVIVAL BECAUSE THEY NEED EACH OTHER, AND I DID AGREE THAT THEY NEED EACH OTHER BUT IN THIS CONTEXT, IN THIS PERIOD OF THE STORY, THEY NEED THE IRON FIST MORE TO SURVIVE. YOU'RE ALREADY TYPING WHY CAN'T YOU TYPE IT INSTEAD? YOU WANT ME TO GO TO YOUR PAGE AND DO A GOOSE CHASE ON YOUR "EXPLANATION" COZ YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ONE, LOL NOT ME.
“ DAFUQ ARE YOU HIGH? I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S THE ML OR THE DAD, RULES ARE RULES, THEY WILL KILL THE CRIMINAL REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS. FOR A TOWN THAT AGAIN, ONLY HAS SURVIVAL AS ITS END GOAL, THERE IS NO BETTER PRINCIPLE THAN MAKING SURE EVERY LOOSE END IS ADDRESSED, AND ANY POTENTIAL FOR DISASTER IS MITIGATED. THAT IS WHAT THEY LIVE BY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN SHAPES THEM UP TO BE, YOU KEEP TRYING TO PUT PRINCIPLES THAT CAN ONLY WORK IN A STABLE NATION IN A TURBULENT ONE LIKE THEM WHEN IT CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK.”
if you can’t understand that then idk what to tell you. they reach stability through foundational principles that involve good ethics.-AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I ASKED YOU THIS- HOW EXACTLY DO YOU PLAN TO ESTABLISH THESE "GOOD ETHICS" IN THAT TYPE OF CROWD? YOU SAY YOU WANT HIM TO ESTABLISH AND IMPLEMENT IT, OKAY HOW? THINK OF JUST ONE WAY, JUST ONE FREAKING WAY THAT WOULD WORK IN THIS SYSTEM? HOW WOULD YOU CONVINCE THEM? AND HOW WOULD YOU TAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO MAINTAIN IT? YOU THINK JUST HANDING OUT PAMPHLETS THAT SAY KILLING= BAD, FORGIVING=GOOD WILL CUT IT? LMAO WHAT KIND OF CHILDISH WAY OF THINKING IS THAT?
“AND AGAIN I ASK HOW IS HE PRIVILEGED? YOU DO KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD RIGHT? IT MEANS YOU GET PERKS, SO WHAT EVEN IS HE GETTING OUT OF HIS ROLE AS THE LEADER OF THIS TOWN?”
it’s quite scary how you don’t understand what privilege means. it’s like you have a childlike way of looking at things. i’ve explained it to you countlessly. reread my words again.-- NO YOU HAVE NOT, WHAT YOU HAVE SAID SO FAR IS THAT IT IS A PRIVILEGE BEING A LEADER, BECAUSE YOU HAVE POWER OVER THOSE YOU RULE- THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO THE ML, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE POWER OVER THEM, THE VOTING SYSTEM HAS THE POWER; YOU SAID IT'S BECAUSE HE GETS RESOURCES, BITCH WHERE? THE HOUSE IS NOT HIS, JUST SOMETHING THAT HE'S LIVING IN, AND EVEN THE MEDICINE IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO HIM EITHER. HE STILL WORKS AND GOES OUT ON MISSIONS TO RETRIEVE FOR THE TOWN, WHERE'S THE PRIVILEGE IN THAT?
congratulations, now you understand what privilege means. you inserting how you feel about the town & the setting doesn’t negate privilege. privilege exists in every facet of life no matter how bad a setting/situation is.-HOW IS THAT PRIVELEGE WHEN THOSE ARE HIS MERITS? YOU THINK AN EMPLOYEE WHO GOT PROMOTED FOR BEING HARDWORKING WAS PRIVILEGED TO GET THAT PROMOTION TOO? HE WAS QUALIFIED FOR THE ROLE THAT'S WHY HE WAS SELECTED, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS SIMPLY GUWON OR THE CHILD OF SOME FIGURE IN POWER WHO WANTED HIM THERE- THAT'S PRIVILEGE.
i broke it down fine. everybody is a tool, so everybody is a victim. you stating him being used as a tool & being uneducated implies lack of agency. that’s why your argument makes no sense. you keep looking at things based on how you feel about their situation to decide if guwon is privileged or not.-- LACK OF AGENCY MEANS LACK OF AWARENESS DAFUQ ARE YOU DOING MENTAL GYMNASTIC ON HERE? A PERSON CAN BE AWARE THAT HE IS BEING USED, BUT AS I SAID, HE CAN DECIDE FOR HIMSELF WHETHER OR NOT HE WANTSIT TO CONTINUE, WHICH IN THIS CASE HE DOES WANT IT TO CONTINUE, EITHER HE AGREES WITH THEM, OR HE SEES IT AS A BETTER CHOICE FOR HIMSELF. A CHILD BEING CARRIED FROM THE KITCHEN TO THE LIVING ROOM IS WHAT LACK OF AGENCY LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE THE CHILD HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO GO WITH IT; A CHILD GETS OFFERED A PLATE OF VEGETABLE AND DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT HE'LL EAT IT, SHOWS AGENCY TO THAT CHILD- HE HAS THE ABILITY TO DECIDE WHAT HE WANTS, AND BASED ON HIS DECISION, HE EITHER ENDS UP HAPPY WITH HIS CHOICE OR NOT. THAT BEING SAID, BEING UNEDUCATED AND INEXPERIENCED DOES NOT IMPLY LACK OF AGENCY, THE ML IS CONCIOUS, HE EVEN SAYS SO THAT HE NEEDS TO ALWAYS KEEP A CLEAR HEAD, HE KNOWS WHAT'S HAPPENING AND IS DOING WHAT HE'S DOING BECAUSE HE SEES THE POINT IN THAT.
you mentioning his stupidity means nothing bc he’s still privileged. everybody is being used. the whole point is using your skills to benefit the group. everything else is fan fiction and/or speculation, so i’m disregarding it. o_o-- YOU KEEP SAYING HE'S PRIVELEGED BUT NOT ONCE HAVE YOU SHOWN PROOF OF HIM BEING ONE LMAO, IT'S YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF THAT HE'S PRIVILEGED, EVEN WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED SO FAR CONTRADICTS IT. OH SO HAVING BETTER SKILLS IS A PRIVILEGE? YOU DO KNOW SKILLS ARE NOT INNATE BUT TRAINED RIGHT? THAT'S WHY I SAID ON THE PREVIOUS ANSWER THAT EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAY IS HIS PRIVILEGE ARE MERITS, YOU KEEP TRIPPING ON THIS.
“ NO, NOW IT'S YOU WHO ASSUMES THAT THEY'RE SCARED OF HIM LOL, THIS ONE WAS NOT IN THE WORK, AT LEAST NOT YET, SO FAR WHAT PEOPLE HAS SHOWN HIM WAS RESPECT, THEY WEREN'T FUMBLINGG WHEN HE APPEARED, AND THEY SEEM TO APPROACH HIM EASILY TOO. MATTER OF FACT, THEY WELCOMED HIM WHEN HE RETURNED BACK FROM THE MISSION AND EVEN WHEN SPEAKING TO HIM THEY ARE CASUAL ABOUT IT, EVEN GREETING HIM IN PUBLIC- YOU TOOK THAT THAT AS A SIGN OF PEOPLE LIVING IN FEAR? LOL THE HOUSE WAS A GIFT NOT BECAUSE HE WANTED IT BUT BECAUSE IT CAME WITH THE IMAGE OF A LEADER, JUST LIKE HOW HIS "LOOKS" FIT THAT OF A LEADER, MEANING ASIDE FROM THE TRAITS THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, HE IS A FRIGHTENING AND DOMINANT LOOKING DUDE TOO, AND THAT IS EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU WANT OTHERS TO BE KEPT IN LINE; NOT AS MUCH PEOPLE WOULD TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY IF HE LOOKED LIKE THE MC, UNLESS HE HAS AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF CREDENTIALS UNDER HIS BELT TO MAKE UP FOR IT.”
they are scared of him. in ch. 6, starting on pg. 57, we see jinwoo eating with the girl & the vet. they come across as friendly (except for the girl who is snappy, but she still converses with jinwoo). on pg. 65, guwon enters the scene, cutting their conversation short by talking to jinwoo. on pg. 68, the girl & the vet get silent all of a sudden. you can even see the vet physically sweating as if he’s nervous. on pg. 75-76, we see the two leave without really saying a goodbye. throughout this entire scene, guwon never acknowledges their existence. the juxtaposition of him being happy while they’re silent speaks volumes. it implies there’s more to guwon than what he’s letting on. so, i’m going to take everything you said here as speculation or fan fiction & disregard it.- LOL THE GIRL? THE ONE WHO'S SUSPICIOUSLY DOING SHADY THINGS WITH THE SUPPLIES? AND THE DOCTOR WHO ADMITTED THAT HE'S ACTUALLY A VET BUT PRETENDS TO BE A DOCTOR BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY'LL SEE NO USE FOR HIM, AKA GETS THROWN BACK OUTSIDE? OF COURSE THEY'LL BE SCARED, THEY'RE HIDING SOMETHING FROM THE TOWN FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, AND THE ML IS THE LEADER OF SAID TOWN, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? THE SILENCE COULD'VE BEEN AN INDICATION THAT ML CAN ALREADY TELL THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR CONVICTIONS (AFTER ALL, THEY ARE STILL OPERATING DEMOCRATICALLY), SO THESE FOLKS TRY THEIR BEST NOT TO DRAW TO MUCH ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES, HENCE THE STILLNESS AND QUIETNESS IN HIS PRESENCE.
ok, so we can skip this argument then. i already explained myself… go look for the list or reread my arguments.- YOU NEVER EXPLAINED LOL, YOU KEPT SAYING YOU DID, BUT YOU NEVER DID, YOU GO LOOK BACK TO YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS AND SEE HOW YOU JUST REPEATEDLY SAY THE THINGS, ALSO AGAIN WHY WOULD I GO TO YOUR LIST? I ASKED FOR YOUR ALTERNATIVES FOR HANDLING THESE CRIMES NOT RECOMMENDATIONS TO OTHER MANGA/MANWHAS WHICH IS WHAT LISTS ARE FOR.
right, so they’re fighting for privilege (leadership, status, etc). these countries do lack resources… that’s one aspect on why they’re poor. the resources they do have is concentrated at the top. who is at the top? leaders. who are the leaders? politicians, wealthy families, corporations, etc. future arguments that you have toward this talking point will be disregarded bc you’re dumb lmaoooo. google is free.- NO THEY'RE NOT, LOTS OF POOR COUNTRIES ARE BOUNTIFUL IN RESOURCES- TROPICAL NATIONS LIKE THE PHILIPPINES FOR EXAMPLE HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE RESERVE OF MINERALS AND AGRICULTURAL LAND BUT THEY ARE STILL REGARDED AS A POOR NATION, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN POWER THERE HAS A HISTORY OF ACQUIRING MORE WEALTH FOR THEMSELVES THAN CREATING EFFORTS TO DISTRIBUTE THE RESOURCES WIDELY, AND THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE, YOU CAN LOOK AT INDIA, ARAB NATIONS, HECK THOSE IN AFRICA, IT'S THE SAME TRAGEDY. JUST BECAUSE YOUR CONCEPT ON THIS MATTER IS SURFACE LEVEL DOESN'T MEAN IT AIN'T SO, YOU'RE CALLING ME DUMB BUT IT'S YOU WHO LACKS SUPPORT IN YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS.
i’m confident bc of my beliefs. if you want the list so bad, go fetch.- I DON'T CARE FOR YOUR MANGA/MANWHA RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU WANT TO JUSTIFY YOUR ARGUMENT THEN DO IT, WHY SHOULD I DO IT FOR YOU? LMAO
nah, i don’t think i will. you can go look for it tho.- NOT DOING BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME A SINGLE GOOD REASON TO EVEN DO SO.
um… you talk about my reading comprehension, but i guess you can’t read either. my words: “ sure, we go through hurdles, but violence is not effective long term. you end up with more issues than you started with.”-- AND AGAIN, READING COMPREHENSION- *AT SOME POINT, I NEVER SAID IT'S EFFECTIVE LONG TERM, I SAID THEY ARE POINTS THAT MUST BE MADE AND PASSED THROUGH TO FINALLY CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
i never said it isn’t effective. i said it’s not effective LONG TERM. i even agreed with you by expressing how people go through hurdles, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy to use. so everything else, i’m disregarding bc a) i already explained this concept to you & b) no matter what you say, ethics is the right choice for survival. take it or leave it girlie pop.- AGAIN, NEVER SAID IT SHOULD BE USED LONG TERM, I EVEN SAID IT MYSELF, IF THERE'S NO USE FOR IT, IT'S THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES WHO WILL GET RID OF IT ON THEIR OWN. BUT IN CASES LIKE IN THE STORY, AT THAT SPECIFIC POINT, IT IS A NECESSITY, IT WHAT WORKS BEST, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T CHANGE, IT COULD, BUT NOT YET.
like i’ve said, you have a nihilistic pov & think everybody else in this setting should just fall in line with authoritative rules bc you feel like that’s the only way to survive. your limited worldview is not everybody else’s reality. saying his kid deserves to die anyway bc he’s going to suffer makes no sense. that’s like saying, “why are they fighting so hard to survive? they’re just going to die anyway.” the whole point of the plot is to survive.-AGAIN, WTF KINDA READING COMPREHENSION IS THAT? I SAID THE KID WILL LIVE IN MISERY BECAUSE THE TOWN IS IN SHAMBLES, THE TOWN IS IN SHAMBLES BECAUSE THE PEOPLE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM, THE PEOPLE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T AS STRICT AS THEY SHOULD BE IN IMPLEMENTING IT, AND SO THAT'S WHY IT WAS A NECCESARRY EVIL THAT WHEN GIVEN A CHOICE BETWEEN A DYING KID AND A THE ENTIRE TOWN'S SURVIVAL, IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE MAJORITY WOULD PICK THE TOWN, BECAUSE WITHOUT THE TOWN, THERE IS NOTHING FOR THE KID EITHER EVEN IF HE DOES SURVIVE. I'M NOT NIHILISTIC I'M COVERING THE BASES OF WHAT'S MOST LIKELY TO HAPPEN. YOU KEEP IMPLYING THAT THE FATHER SHOULD'VE BEEN FORGIVEN, WHEN WHAT HE DID WAS A CLEAR OFFENSE.
ok, well we can elevate some of the suffering by implementing better ethics. we can be both pragmatic & empathetic.--AND AGAIN HOW WOULD YOU IMPLEMENT THESE BETTER ETHICS THAT YOU SPEAK OF, I COULD ARGUE THAT HITTING HIM WITH A BAT WAS PRAGMATIC AND SHOWS EMPATHY BECAUSE THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT THE ML GAVE HIM A CONCUSSION ON THE FIRST BLOW AND HE NEVER EVEN SUFFERED THE REST OF THE BEATINGS? SEE I GAVE MY METHODOLOGIES ON THESE THINGS, ALL YOU KEEP SAYING IS THAT THEY SHOULD'VE DONE THIS AND THAT- OKAY HOW? YOU HAVE IDEALS BUT YOU CAN'T EVEN PUT THEM IN ACTION, WHAT'S THE USE OF THAT?
but that wouldn’t be their logic if they need the doctor to survive, so there’s a contradiction here. you’d be dishonest to say they’d kill him off for breaking a rule lol. this is why your arguments make no sense girlie pop.-- THEY DON'T NEED THE DOCTOR TO SURVIVE, THEY NEED THE MEDICINE. THEY FIND THE DOCTOR VALUABLE TO THE TOWN, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT WATER, THAT'S A GIVEN, AND I FIND MY PHONE VALUABLE. DOES IT MEAN I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT MY PHONE THE SAME WAY I CAN'T WITHOUT WATER? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
NO FUCKING WAY! you don’t think they’d need a healthcare worker? so why let him join the group if he’s easily discardable? you said they’re trying to survive & resources are everything. a doctor isn’t a resource????????? you sound dumb asf.-- BECAUSE AS I SAID, HE IS VALUABLE, HE HAS THE BETTER INSIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH AND WELLNESS, THAN JUST READING OFF MEDICAL TEXTBOOKS, THEY TOOK HIM IN FOR THAT VERY REASON. BUT SHOULD IT LEADS TO A POINT WHEN THEY DO HAVE TO GET RID OF HIM, THEY WILL, BECAUSE HE ISN'T A NECESSITY, HE'S A GOOD ADDITION TO THE GROUP, BUT THEY CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM, AND BEFOR HE CAME, THEY ALREADY DID LIVE WITHOUT HIM. DOCTOR VS MEDICINE, THE TOWN HAS A HIGHER CHANCE OF SURVIVING WITH THE MEDS IN THEIR RESOURCE THAN JUST HIM, MATTER OF FACT HE TAKES IN THE RESOURCE TOO, HE GETS FED, SHELTERED, AND SO ON.
well based on your previous answer, i know they’d definitely devolve into depravity if you were their leader or a member in their group. you think they would kill a doctor for breaking a rule, but they wouldn’t eventually partake in horrific behaviors once things get worse. you just admitted they’re willing to cut their nose off (a valuable asset) if it means they broke a rule. that’s a depraved mindset.--LOL YOU KEEP INTERPRETING MY ANSWERS IN WAYS THAT YOU THINK WORKS FOR YOU. I SAID IT BEFORE AND I SAID IT AGAIN, THEY ARE MITIGATING TO AVOID GOING THROUGH EVEN WORSE CONDITIONS AND COURSE OF ACTIONS. CANNIBALISM IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO EAT, AND THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN THEY HAVE NO OTHER RESOURCES TO GET TO. THESE ARE THE VERY SAME THINGS THAT THEY ARE STRICTLY KEEPING IN CHECK AS OF CURRENT, BECAUSE ONE SLIP AND THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO GO THAT ROUTE.
“ THEY ARE ALREADY AT THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, MENTALLY ALL THEY CARE IS PRESERVING THE TOWN BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN THE ALTERNATIVE- THE OUTSIDE; ENVIRONMENTALLY, IT'S A SIMILAR THING, THE WORLD THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN CONTINUES TO SHAPE THEIR PERCEPTION AND JUSTIFICATION WHICH COULD ONLY GO TO THE EXTREMES, UNLESS THEY HAVE ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE OR ANOTHER TOWN TO GO TO, THAT ONE IS LITERALLY THEIR LIFE AND DEATH, THEIR ONLY SALVATION. THE DEATH OF A VALUABLE PERSON WOULD INDEFINITELY BRING HARDSHIP AND ADJUSTMENT BUT IT WON'T NECESSARILY TRIGGER THE COLLAPSE, EVEN IF THE LEADER GETS KILLED THEY COULD JUST ELECT A NEW ONE THAT STILL FITS WITHIN THE CRITERIA. ALSO, UNLESS THERE IS A DIVISIVE GROUP WITHIN THE TOWN, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THEY WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER, BECAUSE AGAIN, THE ENEMY IS NOT WITHIN, BUT THE ZOMBIES OUTSIDE, THEY'D RATHER SUCK IT UP AND STICK TOGETHER THAN GO TRY TO MAKE IT ON THEIR OWN.”
nope, this isn’t even a worst case scenario. once things devolve into rape, cannibalism, pedophilia, & slavery, then we should be worried.- MENTALLY AND ENVIRONMENTALLY, IT IS THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, YOU CANNOT GO FURTHER THAN HAVING THE MINDSET OF SURVIVING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF SURVIVAL, CANNOT HAVE A WORSE CASE SCENARIO THAN LIVING IN AN ENCLOSURE BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'LL GET KILLED BY FREAKING ZOMBIES. RAPE, CANNIBALISM, PEDOPHILIA, AND SLAVERY ARE THINGS THAT ARE BYPRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, WHICH GIVEN WHERE THEY ARE IS UNLIKELY. RAPE FOR INSTANCE IS MOSTLY DRIVEN BY THE DESIRE TO OVERPOWER ANOTHER PERSON, OR IN CASES OF INVASIONS, TO PROPAGATE THE POPULATION- THE SECOND I ALREADY SAID IS NOT HAPPENING IN THIS TOWN, AND THE FIRST ONE IS UNLIKELY TOO BECAUSE OVERPOWERING ANOTHER PERSON HAS NO BENEFIT TO THE TOWN EITHER, SO HOW WILL THE PERPETRATOR EVEN JUSTIFY IT. CANNIBALISM IS POSSIBLE DUE TO LACK OF FOOD, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE EXTREMELY WARY OF THEIR RESOURCES, OTHERWISE, THIS IS WHAT'S NEXT ON THEIR PLATE. PEDOPHILIA, SIMILAR TO RAPE, IS JUST ANOTHER MEANS OF DESIRING FOR POWER, SPECIFICALLY TO CHILDREN, WHICH IN THIS TOWN BARELY EVEN HAS ANY, AND EVEN IF THERE IS AN ACTUAL PEDOPHILE, THAT WOULD MEAN THEY'D HARM THE KIDS, THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THE TOWN TO LET IT PASS BECAUSE IT JUST MADE THE TOWN WORSE, SO RATHER THAN NORMALIZING IT, THEY WOULD ACTUALLY GET PUNISHED FOR IT. AND LASTLY SLAVERY, THIS ONE'S THE PRODUCT OF TAKING COMPLETE ADVANTAGE OF SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT, HOW WOULD THIS APPLY TO THIS TOWN WHEN THEY NEED TO PERFORM CERTAIN ROLES THEMSELVES TO KEEP IT GOING? BEING A SLAVE MEANS YOU ARE WORKING BUT NOT GETTING COMPENSATED, IF IN THIS TOWN A WORKER IS NOT COMPENSATED WELL WITH THE NECASSARY RESOURCES LIKE FOOD AND SHELTER, THEN THEY'D JUST GROW WEAKER, WHICH BTW WOULD JUST MAKE THEM USELESS IN THE END, SO WHY WOULD THEY EVEN DO THAT?
i’m still standing 10 toes on it. either implement better ethics or die.-- AND I'M STILL WAITING ON HOW YOU'LL DO IT INT THIS CONTEXT TOO, YOU SPEAK CRAP THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN SUPPORT LMAO
yup, change exists in every facet of life. to be fair, the story is still in its beginning stages, but the opportunities are still there. i want guwon to utilize it.-- YOU NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION- HOW WOULD THOSE POINTS THAT YOU SAID CAUSE CHANGE? YOU KEEP ALLUDING TO YOUR IDEOLOGIES BUT YOUR SUBSTANCE IS SHALLOWER THAN A PUDDLE LOL
nah… you’ve been mixing your feelings into stuff. right, the zombies. things are already hard, so why make it harder by killing off your own?- BECAUSE THE PERSON NEEDED TO BE PUNISHED, THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY- YOU CAN'T EVEN COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE YOURSELF, AND YET YOU INSIST THAT THERE IS ONE. OKAY, LAY IT DOWN THEN. YOU SAY IT AS IF THEY PULLED A RANDOM ASS NAME ON A LOTTERY BOX AND KILLED THE MAN SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WAS SELECTED, THERE WAS MOTIVE, AND THERE WAS JUSTIFICATION, IT WAS A SUBSTANTIATED ACTION.
yeah, ever watch the walking dead? there’s more than one way to sustain a community. ah… i see. you’re like one of those edgy, “realistic” thinkers who think these complexities are just human nature & people succumb to their real nature in settings like this. gotcha. it makes sense tbh. i’m not saying this line of thinking is wrong per say, but it’s cringey lmaooo. maybe touch grass & talk to more people bc you give off the vibes that you subconsciously think the worst of others.-EVER HEARD OF REAL LIFE? I SAID IT ALREADY, IT'S A FACTUAL THING THAT PEOPLE DO RESORT TO VIOLENT TENDENCIES WHEN FACED WITH EXTREME SITUATIONS, IT'S THERE FOR YOU TO READ AND WEEP ON. WALKING DEAD, ADMITTEDLY I HAVE NOT WATCHED, BUT CONSIDERING HOW YOU RAISED IT, I ASSUME IT ENDED WITH THE LEADS SURVIVING, WHICH OF COURSE THEY WOULD- IT'S A SHOW THAT SPANNED WHAT 8-10 SEASONS? PEOPLE ARE HEAVILY ATTACHED TO THESE CHARACTERS, YOU THINK THE PRODUCERS ARE GONNA KILL EM OFF? DEFO NOT A CHANCE, THOSE THING WOULD MOST INDEFINITELY FALL TO THE SIDE CHARACTERS INSTEAD.
YOU ARE- THE FACT ALONE THAT YOU KEEP ON INSISTING THAT IT IS HIM WHO WILL BE PUNISHED WHEN MET WITH THE SAME FATE AS THE FATHER "IMPLIES" THAT YOU ONLY REGARD WHAT HE DID AS VILLANOUS, BUT NOT THE PEOPLE LETTING HIM GET THE GREEN SIGNAL FOR IT. THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING, YOU TAKE HIM DOWN, YOU TAKE THE REST OF THE GROUP DOWN, BECAUSE THEY ALL DECIDED IT, SO IF SOMEONE WERE TO BE ANGRY AT HIM FOR KILLING SAY, A LOVED ONE? WHY ONLY TO HIM? THE ENTIRE TOWN MADE THAT DECISION.
no, i’m implying that he's a leader & must set the tone by example.
LOL, BECAUSE THERE IS CLEAR DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THEIR WANT AND ACTIONS, THE VERDICT IS THE SAME WHETHER THE TOWN OR THE ML (MATTER OF FACT THE ML DIDN'T EVEN VOTE, HE JUST WENT WITH THE AGREED VERDICT), THEY ALL KILLED THE FATHER AS PUNISHMENT, BUT THEY COULD'VE DONE IT COLLECTIVELY TOO-COULD'VE STONED HIM TO DEATH, COULD'VE BLUDGEONED HIM WITH THEIR OWN BATS TOO, AND AS LEADER, IT COULD'VE BEEN THE ML WHO'S SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE FINAL GO FOR IT, BUT IT'S THE OPPOSITE HERE, THEY WANT TO SEE THE JUSTICE, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO ENFORCCE IT THEMSELVES.
you don’t know why they didn’t. maybe it’s easier to have one person do it, maybe guwon’s strength is better utilized for it, etc. who knows?
HOW IS WHAT I'M WRITING BASED ON MY BELIEFS AND SPECULATIONS WHEN IN EVERY RESPONSE THAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU, I PROVIDED SAMPLE AND EVIDENCE EITHER FROM THE ACTUAL WORK OR FACTUAL HISTORICAL EVIDENCE? IT'S YOU WHO INSISTS ON YOUR NAIVE IDEOLOGIES THAT ONLY WORKS IN A SMOOTH ASS WORLD THAT'S FAR FETCHED EVEN FROM REALITY. EVEN IF HE DID SET THEM OUT ON A MISSION TO FIND THE RAT, THE FACT THAT THEY WENT WITH IT, AND MADE AN EFFORT TO FULFILL IT STILL FALLS WITHIN THEIR DETERMINATION TO GET THE JUSTICE THAT THE TOWN DESERVES.
you didn’t. you can only guess these things, but we can’t say 100% that this is their motive. so it’s only speculation until the story unfolds.
WHEN MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION HAS A TENDENCY OF ABUSING A LOOSE AND OPEN SYSTEM, THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO RESTATE THE LAW, AND DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH MORE INCIDENTS OCCUR AFTER, THAT LAW GETS RESTATED OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT REACHES TO THE LEVEL OF EXTREMITY LIKE BEING SHOWN IN THIS WORK- WHICH IS WHY I ASKED DO YOU THINK THEY JUST WOKE UP AND DECIDED THAT DEATH IS THE RIGHT PUNISHMENT FOR THEFT? LOL, IT COULD'VE BEEN THAT THEY PUT UP A LESSER PUNISHMENT BEFORE BUT THAT WASN'T ENOUGH TO DETER THIEVES, ML EVEN SAID SO IN HIS MONOLOGUES THAT HE SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE STRICTER SO THAT IT DIDN'T LEAD TO THAT CONCLUSION, BUT THERE IS NOTHING ELSE MORE TO DEATH SO THEIR LAW CANNOT BE REINSTATED ANY FURTHER THAN THAT.
swinging in the other direction isn’t helpful either. balance is key. balance = ethics.
NO YOU DID NOT, YOU KEPT SAYING YOU DID, BUT GO BACK TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID AND FIND THAT YOU YOURSELF CONTRADICTS YOUR OWN WORDS, ALL YOU SAY IS THAT YOU BELIEVE EQ AND EMPATHY IS THE WAY TO SURVIVAL BECAUSE THEY NEED EACH OTHER, AND I DID AGREE THAT THEY NEED EACH OTHER BUT IN THIS CONTEXT, IN THIS PERIOD OF THE STORY, THEY NEED THE IRON FIST MORE TO SURVIVE. YOU'RE ALREADY TYPING WHY CAN'T YOU TYPE IT INSTEAD? YOU WANT ME TO GO TO YOUR PAGE AND DO A GOOSE CHASE ON YOUR "EXPLANATION" COZ YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ONE, LOL NOT ME. AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I ASKED YOU THIS- HOW EXACTLY DO YOU PLAN TO ESTABLISH THESE "GOOD ETHICS" IN THAT TYPE OF CROWD? YOU SAY YOU WANT HIM TO ESTABLISH AND IMPLEMENT IT, OKAY HOW? THINK OF JUST ONE WAY, JUST ONE FREAKING WAY THAT WOULD WORK IN THIS SYSTEM? HOW WOULD YOU CONVINCE THEM? AND HOW WOULD YOU TAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO MAINTAIN IT? YOU THINK JUST HANDING OUT PAMPHLETS THAT SAY KILLING= BAD, FORGIVING=GOOD WILL CUT IT? LMAO WHAT KIND OF CHILDISH WAY OF THINKING IS THAT?
i did. go reread my responses or don’t. idc. nah, i don’t feel like it. go look for the list babe.
LOL THE GIRL? THE ONE WHO'S SUSPICIOUSLY DOING SHADY THINGS WITH THE SUPPLIES? AND THE DOCTOR WHO ADMITTED THAT HE'S ACTUALLY A VET BUT PRETENDS TO BE A DOCTOR BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY'LL SEE NO USE FOR HIM, AKA GETS THROWN BACK OUTSIDE? OF COURSE THEY'LL BE SCARED, THEY'RE HIDING SOMETHING FROM THE TOWN FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, AND THE ML IS THE LEADER OF SAID TOWN, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? THE SILENCE COULD'VE BEEN AN INDICATION THAT ML CAN ALREADY TELL THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR CONVICTIONS (AFTER ALL, THEY ARE STILL OPERATING DEMOCRATICALLY), SO THESE FOLKS TRY THEIR BEST NOT TO DRAW TO MUCH ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES, HENCE THE STILLNESS AND QUIETNESS IN HIS PRESENCE.
we only know that she’s creeping around. jinwoo also lied but we don’t see him as a bad person, so i’m not going to jump to conclusions & say the vet is malicious. again, we don’t know these people yet or their motives besides survival, so your assumptions are speculation. everybody is hiding something. guwon threw up after kissing jinwoo, would i say he’s a bad person? no bc idk why he did it. i can only speculate.
so the people who put him in a position of power don’t even want to talk to him? guwon can’t even look their way & say hello? that makes no sense. yeah, no. your argument falls flat here.
AND AGAIN, READING COMPREHENSION- *AT SOME POINT, I NEVER SAID IT'S EFFECTIVE LONG TERM, I SAID THEY ARE POINTS THAT MUST BE MADE AND PASSED THROUGH TO FINALLY CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
maybe it’s bc your english isn’t good? i never said you said that. I’M saying that it’s not effective long term. i’m agreeing with you, yes, but not fully by claiming it’s not a good strategy. i’m TELLING you that this point will be hard to reach due to your claim (violence first, empathy later). read things slowly next time.
AGAIN, NEVER SAID IT SHOULD BE USED LONG TERM, I EVEN SAID IT MYSELF, IF THERE'S NO USE FOR IT, IT'S THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES WHO WILL GET RID OF IT ON THEIR OWN. BUT IN CASES LIKE IN THE STORY, AT THAT SPECIFIC POINT, IT IS A NECESSITY, IT WHAT WORKS BEST, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T CHANGE, IT COULD, BUT NOT YET.
well I’M saying that. idc that you didn’t say it. like i said, it’s not effective long term. period. take it or leave it.
Being moral is good and all, but when you are living in a dying world with resources that runs up quicker than you can say kumbayah, only the ruthless makes it to the end. Every hero is seen as a genocidal maniac from those that they've overpowered, even in modern times, a lot of those with psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies achieve greatness in life.
I find this development to be a good one, instead of making the ML a flat, strong but sensitive type of generic lead, author actually gave him backbones that make sense to his character profile- he's the leader of a dystopian group, for goodness sake, when everything is messed up and scarce, people do tend to go to the extremes just to survive, also what was he supposed to do? if he spared him at the last minute, that would be showing favor which would 1. decrease loyalty from his followers who tried their best to adhere to the laws themselves, 2. create animosity for the spared "criminal" from the other townsfolk (because why was he spared and not the others?) and 3. show weakness to the leader - if he can do it once for someone, then others could just pull a sob story and use it to justify going against the law.
Everything's cyclical anyway, once this extremity reaches a boiling point it is bound to pop. Maybe the kid will take revenge, maybe the MC will lead a rebellion against the ML, maybe they both lose their minds in the end. This story can go multiple ways and I find that's what makes it really interesting so far.