woah the amount of replies
Hmm, I’d say the absolute lowest threshold to determine ‘a non-enthusiastic participant’ would be a state of unconsciousness solely based on the assumption that a human being has had sufficient exposure to the act of SLEEP from birth to right fucking now to accurately and reliably interpret it’s presentation as a non-foreign non-verbal communication of, “NO CONSENT”…but I do concede that I can only speak for human beings NOT FUCKING MONSTERS LIKE YOURSELF. Enjoy eating your words over the next few chapters buddy. Also, FYI: if you have to resort to “technicalities” re consent, you’re doing it wrong.
What part of a drunk/sleepy person is an incapacitated person don't you get? He said he wanted to sleep few panels ago.
The drugs example is a false analogy. Drug possession/use laws are about criminal behavior. Consent laws are about a person's capacity to make decisions. Your example anyway shows a case of an informed decision to partake in reprehensible activities; if the law says "consumption/use of drugs is illegal", whether you buy it or not does not matter. Our issue is very 101: Drunk people do not make the best decisions.
"Someone who is incapacitated cannot consent to sex." — RAINN.org
“Penetration... without the consent of the victim, including instances where the victim is incapable of giving consent because of... intoxication.” — FBI
"Consent cannot be given when someone is incapacitated—whether from drugs, alcohol, or unconsciousness." - NSVRC
"“Drunk means no. Passed out means no. Silence means no. Only an enthusiastic, sober yes means yes.” 101 ED.
Non-verbal “consent” is not reliable, not safe, and absolutely not a defense when someone is visibly drunk, tired, or otherwise vulnerable. Being passive isn’t consenting. Being too drunk or sleepy to protest isn’t consenting. Ambiguous body language can’t override clear signs of incapacitation. You won’t even manage to win a case— In real life, if a case goes to court, ambiguity benefits the defense, and that’s why it’s crucial to stress that only clear, sober, affirmative consent counts. I can hardly call the MC ‘enthusiastic’ here. He just looks taken advantage of at best.
Furthermore, r@pe victims also orgasm, but we do not go ahead and conclude things were consensual. if the MC decided to pursue charges (which will never happen), he’d have strong legal grounds in many jurisdictions. Finally, marital or domestic rpe is one of the most under-discussed and under-prosecuted forms of sexual violence, precisely because of these blurry lines.
They are "technically" incorrect, which is even weirder.
You must be fun at parties - like the other guy just said. Accountability is another blurry concept with you.
I'm sorry, I cannot always side with one. Because there is as much as falsely accused people, as there are actual perpetrators. Anyone can claim to be assaulted, even if at the time they are actually fully conscious but because they have consumed alcohol, they can claim it was assault. Can be used for revenge or just simply incriminating someone. It's their word against the other person.
I am not saying victims are non-existent, nor I am victim blaming. Just saying, every choice leading to that event must be accounted. Knowing the risks and possible outcome yet still going is accountable.
You’re literally victim blaming. And sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes. Raping your wife wasn’t even legally considered rape until the 90s in the UK. And in the US, the current president and multiple members of his cabinet are sexual predators but, alas, they maintain their position because of people like yourself and a justice system that doesn’t treat it with the seriousness it deserves. It isn’t just about what happens physically, it’s what it does to you mentally. It fucks you up for life and unlike other survivors of violent crimes, victims are burdened with additional shame and anxiety that is a direct result of a culture that blames / disbelieves them and a legal system that, more often than not, fails to provide any justice for what they experienced and carry for the rest of their lives. If you had any real knowledge on the topic, I’d take you seriously, but you are very clearly speaking from a place of ignorance and a complete lack of empathy. I pray for you.
Yeah. Fucking yikes. And people out here saying I’m not fun at a party. The fact that they are implying rape makes parties fun…….. (⊙ _ ⊙)
You really trying to say that rape makes parties fun? wow….uhm… u trying to tell us something?
thank you pennyinheaven
No girl. Thats on you again. Lol. I'm just going to go with your logic, if someone can say no at any point during the act, then they can also say yes at any point. Being fully aware matters. Our MC? He is.
Ma'am/Sir or whatever, if you have the time to gawk at a fully erect penis, you are aware and conscious. He regretted the next morning but he is damn aware he wanted that penis.
The fact you keep insisting that a drunk/sleepy person is fully aware is legally and medically incorrect. Please, make your point without perpetuating misinformation.
‘Knowing the risks and possible outcome yet still going is accountable’ — that’s textbook victim blaming. Same vibe as saying people may rp at bars, so by going there, you're accepting the risk of being rpd. That’s a fallacy, and it’s simply untrue.
Back to our case — going to the ML to talk is not an invitation to be drunken (MC did pour more wine in his throat to "ease" him and the MC was confused about what he meant) or taken advantage of. Implying otherwise edges close to justifying predatory behavior.
And for the record, laws and moral philosophy are VERY clear on this. I’m sorry to inform you, but this incident — and the chapters that follow — do not depict anything close to ‘enthusiastic consent.’
If you truly believe this incident qualifies as enthusiastic consent, I need to say it plainly: your sophistry doesn’t override basic legal standards or sex education. You don't have to side with anything or anybody, you just need to stop spreading misinformation or I don't know, take a 15 min to read about it online. Knowledge ain’t infused. Resources ain't lacking.
Oh boy. You don't have to ACCEPT getting raped but ALWAYS be cautious because it might happen. So you're saying, if you go to a bar, you are not cautious? You just drink EVERY drink given to you, even from strangers? Not considering that it might have been spiked? You can't control how bad the people you might encounter, so how do you help yourself? Isn't it by being prepared the best that you can? By avoiding what can be avoided? Do just trust that people around you are safe to be with? It's on them for doing bad things, but it's also on you to protect yourself. If you did everything that you can to avoid what can be avoided, at least you can say you did what you can. You didn't just jump into a bad situation by being naive or dumb.
What do you think waivers are for? In the context of rides or whatever. Because you are informed of the dangers the activity but you are willing to still go at it.
So in this case, MC is AWARE the ML is dangerous. Yet he still went to his apartment. Still drunk wine.
It's the same thing when people insist of cheating and saying, they were drunk. They didn't know any better, when in fact they knew what they were doing. There is a range. Not all drunks are the same. You can't say that being tipsy on 50ml of wine is the same as dead drunk at 1L of tequila.
To give you a break down. ML, being as cunning as he is, purposefully gave MC just enough wine to loosen him up. Combine the amount he drunk, it wasn't even a full glass. ML is gauging what MC will do.
1. He could have run and try to leave - which (a) ML will either let him go or (b) force him to stay, tie him up and all.
2. Or SEDUCE him to having sex - which exactly what happened. Is seduction not a thing anymore?
Another example. There is this area in my country where it is always crowded and robbery or phones/bangs/jewelries being snatched from your body is rampant. So if you go there, people already warned you to be careful, would you still not be cautious? Would you still wear jewelries? Wear luxury bags? Keep your bag open? Hold your phone instead of putting it in your bag?
In the end, it's your job to protect your belongings.
That’s not my logic at all lol
Wow i love how people are like “I’m not victim blaming” then proceed to write multiple paragraphs on different ways to blame assault victims for getting assaulted.
atleast hes askijg sooyoung for permission.. sometimes