I'm so bored

Ok, so now you are telling that you are against sa porn. I agree, I aslo against sa depicted as something sexy in any media. But it's not what you have written earlier.
"When straight women consume gay male porn made by other straight women, they ARE fetishizing a marginalized group." What is porn for you? What if there are compeling romantic plot and sex scenes. Is it porn?

Can't leave any comments anymore...
"When straight women consume gay male porn made by other straight women, they ARE fetishizing a marginalized group." Your words. No distinction between good bl bad bl, romantic bl with sex scenes.

no one gives a fuck if ur an asexual women, we don’t need ur background. She was calling out ppl who fetishizes gay people and majority of time it’s women , that’s a fact u can’t deny. You do not need to write abt gay ppl while fetishizing them and making weird plots. And you do not need to mention bl in every straight story, it gets to a point. That’s all she was talking abt n ppl including u created a whole fuss, u are triggered its not abt bl like always, it gets to a point. I’ll put it in a baby words u understand. Old men making sexual content abt underage girls . It’s weird right? That’s the whole point . If it’s a wholesome old man treating an underage like his own daughter without making it weird, there’s no problem. Put that logic into what she’s saying and use ur reading comprehension skills. Please and thank you

No, her words 'When straight women consume gay male porn made by other straight women, they ARE fetishizing a marginalized group.' That is why I stated my sexuality. You need to learn to read.

Did you really just compare bl and child porn? wtf is wrong with you.

Omg u are so sad.. I feel so bad for u.. I’m saying the whole concept of fetish is similar u need to look at the big picture holy shit

Ya again she lowkey never asked for ur sexuality.. so idk man, that sentence sure did hurt u huh. Truth hurts

What truth? It's just a stupid opinion on the internet. I've tied to show her why it's stupid, but hey she just likes judging people i guess.

similar to what? to being a pedo? you have compaired reading bl with being a pedo.

Hi tarspoon let me explain. Individuals can often become aware of how their identity group is perceived and may feel pressured to either reject or rebrand that label. This often leads people to “police” behaviors among peers to transform the negative image imposed on them. This act of regulating what is seen as right or wrong within identity groups shapes how individuals construct their sense of “self.”
Many study participants brought up the idea of fetishism when reflecting on their experiences in the BL fandom and their identities as consumers of BL media. The concept of fetishism appeared frequently enough that it required deeper discussion. Being accused of being a fetishist was seen as a form of discursive constraint something people pushed back against both individually and collectively, often as an act of activism for BL media consumers. it’s helpful to explore Marx’s concept of fetishism of commodities alongside sexual fetishism to understand how power, desire, and alienation intertwine.
Lewin and Morris (1977) explain that Marx’s theory of commodity fetishism highlights how, under capitalism, material goods take on mysterious power. People begin to see commodities as having “inherent properties” that exist independently of the labor that produced them (Lewin and Morris 1977:173). This alienates workers from their products they no longer connect their work to what they create but only to what can be bought and sold. The capitalist system thus values profit over people.
In such a fetishistic world, capitalists embody capital, workers embody labor-power, and everything revolves around exchange rather than human connection. Marx describes this as a “topsy-turvy world of appearance,” where not the people, but the commodities themselves, seem to possess the power (Lewin and Morris 1977:175). In this sense, fetishism becomes a kind of social blindness people worship the product instead of understanding the process that produced it.
This alienation mirrors how individuals can fetishize human identities treating them as objects of fascination, not people. As Donham (2018:29) wrote, “[People] produce an ever-expanding array of wealth, but ironically, they experience the very things they create as having power over them.” Likewise, those who fetishize others, especially marginalized groups, often assign exaggerated value or desire to traits while ignoring the humanity behind them.
The Oxford Languages dictionary defines fetishize as “to make something the object of a sexual fetish; to have an excessive or irrational commitment or obsession with something.” Sexual fetishism is not just about attraction it’s about objectification, when a person or identity becomes valued only through the lens of desire or fantasy.
Engmann (2012) discusses this in the context of colonial photography in Under Imperial Eyes, Black Bodies, Buttocks, and Breasts, explaining how Europeans fetishized and exoticized Black women’s bodies turning them into objects of consumption rather than human beings. This dynamic still applies when marginalized identities, such as gay men, are depicted primarily for the pleasure of audiences outside that group.
When straight women consume or create gay male content for entertainment, especially when the focus is on sexualization rather than representation, it risks echoing this same dynamic. The line between appreciation and fetishization is crossed when the humanity, struggle, or authenticity of the group is erased in favor of fantasy.
Now, Tarspoon, since you seem eager to twist words, let’s clear this up with both logic and theory. No one said all BL is porn, or that women can’t enjoy stories about gay characters. What was said and what you keep dodging is that fetishizing marginalized identities, especially by people outside those identities, is a harmful pattern that’s been historically tied to power, alienation, and objectification (Lewin and Morris 1977; Donham 2018; Engmann 2012).
You’re clinging to your hurt feelings instead of engaging with the argument. The point isn’t that “reading BL = being a predator.” The point is that fetishizing is like what Marx called commodity fetishism turning people (or identities) into consumable products stripped of their real context. When straight creators sexualize gay men for profit or fantasy, it’s not “representation.” It’s exploitation masked as romance.
And if you had a vast open mind you would realize my comparison wasn’t “calling BL child porn.” It was a logical analogy showing how fetishism, whether of minors or marginalized groups, comes from the same root: objectifying someone for fantasy without considering the harm or humanity behind it. That’s not an accusation. That’s a sociological fact supported by centuries of theory.
People who aren’t gay shouldn’t fetishize gay relationships, just like no one should fetishize any marginalized group. Admiring love stories is fine but turning someone’s identity into a sexual aesthetic is dehumanizing. It’s not “judging people”; it’s demanding respect. There’s a difference between representation and consumption and pretending not to know the difference just proves the point I made.

The BL and yaoi industry does that exact thing turning gay men and their relationships into commodities to be enjoyed by a majority audience of women who aren’t part of that community. It’s not “representation,” it’s the eroticization of someone else’s identity for profit.
And before you twist that again yes, women can create art about men, and yes, BL can have meaningful stories. But the problem isn’t women writing romance. It’s the overwhelming pattern of straight women mass-producing pornographic stories that center gay male rape and call it “romance.” That’s not empowerment, that’s exploitation with better lighting. You’re treating the existence of a few thoughtful works as if they erase the entire structure of fetishized consumption around them. That’s like saying Nike can’t be exploitative because one shoe ad showed a happy worker. It’s willful blindness.
You asked if “there’s research that says it harms anyone.” You don’t need a peer-reviewed paper to see how gay men themselves have spoken about discomfort with fujoshi culture being treated like mascots, walking fantasies, or decorative queers instead of people. That’s harm. When your entertainment relies on people’s marginalization to turn you on, you are participating in a system of fetishism, not allyship. You might not want to admit it, but that’s the uncomfortable truth.
And comparing Brokeback Mountain or Moonlight to yaoi is laughable. Those films were crafted with respect, consultation, and a desire to tell stories about love and repression, not to feed someone’s fantasy. Yaoi is built on voyeurism the consumption of intimacy that doesn’t belong to you, stylized into a safe spectacle for women to enjoy without confronting real queer experience. It’s literally the textbook definition of fetishization: assigning exaggerated emotional or sexual fascination to something precisely because it’s distant, forbidden, or “other.”
Your “what if a lesbian or asexual person writes it?” argument doesn’t work either. Identity doesn’t erase power dynamics. A lesbian writing rape fantasy about gay men isn’t immune to fetishization just because she’s queer. It’s still using someone else’s orientation as material. Being marginalized doesn’t give you moral immunity from reproducing other hierarchies. Ask any feminist scholar , oppression isn’t a free pass to exploit someone else’s image.
You said BL is “changing.” Sure, it is , slowly. But pretending that the industry’s roots in straight female consumption have vanished overnight is naïve. You don’t get to erase decades of patterns because a few queer authors now exist in the genre. That’s like saying Hollywood stopped being sexist because Barbie came out. Change isn’t erasure.
And the “you’re generalizing” defense is tired. Pointing out structural patterns isn’t the same as saying everyone is guilty. I’ve literally said multiple times: thoughtful BL that treats gay relationships with depth isn’t the problem. The fetishistic, assault-heavy, mass-produced yaoi is. If that distinction keeps flying over your head, it’s because you don’t want to engage you just want to defend your comfort zone.
Also, stop acting like calling out fetishization is “hate.” It’s not hate, it’s criticism. The same way feminists critique the male gaze, I’m critiquing the female gaze when it commodifies gay men. Both can objectify. Both can harm. You don’t get moral exemption just because your gaze feels “softer.”
And let’s be real your “what’s wrong with being fine with homophobia” comment told me everything. You claim to care about respect, but your line of empathy stops where your fetish begins. You’re not defending queer people; you’re defending your ability to consume them without guilt.
So yeah, I’ll keep calling it what it is: fetishization. You can keep pretending it’s harmless “romance” if that helps you sleep at night, but at least own the contradiction. Because the cognitive dissonance of shouting “representation!” while jerking off to someone else’s oppression is exactly what Marx would’ve called fetishism the worship of a fantasy that hides the truth of the labor and pain behind it.
You can keep calling me anything all you want, but the irony is that I’m the only one here actually looking beyond the fantasy.

Also there is something called research, it’s nice to try out some new hobbies! Hope this helps.

I'm against SA being romanticized and used for sexual gratification, yes. That's been consistent throughout.
When I say 'porn,' I'm talking about content where the primary purpose is sexual arousal rather than storytelling. Yaoi as a genre is explicitly sexual , that's the distinction from shounen ai (romance-focused BL).
Can something have both a compelling plot AND sex scenes? Sure. But when the sex is the main draw and it's made by women for women to consume gay male sexuality, that's fetishization, especially when it's dominated by non-consensual content.
Again. Is the story exploring gay relationships and experiences respectfully with sex as part of that, or is it reducing gay men to sexual objects for entertainment…. Most yaoi falls into the latter category. They make it about providing sexual content featuring gay men for straight women.

‘Just a stupid opinion', funny how you've been arguing with me for hours if it's so stupid. And you didn't 'show me why it's stupid,' you kept missing my point, making false equivalences, and putting words in my mouth.
I'm not judging people for reading romance. I'm judging people for fetishizing marginalized groups and treating gay men as sexual objects. If you can't see the difference at this point, that's on you.

Lol fujoshis calling you homophobic is hilarious considering some of them actually are homophobic. Honestly I read yaoi and write mlm (romance not porn though), but even I can agree that 99% of the time the stories are fetish content that I have to stop reading because it's not actually queer media. It's straight porn but the girl is a cis man.
What you said is homophobic and I'm like. A nervous lesbian who is hyperaware of people's lowkey homophobia.

*WHAT YOU SAID IS NOT HOMOPHOBIC jesus me

Fellow ace friend you need to get on webtoon and read actually good gay romance. Yaoi is very different from queer media with gay men protagonists. Yaoi men aren't actually gay, they 99% of the time follow a straight couple dynamic. I swear once you start reading good queer media it's hard to go back to yaoi.
Here's some rec :
- Heir's game (violent but great and written by a non-female writer, on webtoon)
- Even NPC can save the world (it's on mangago, written by a queer man)
- Matchmaker (a queer slice of life, main characters are a gay man and a lesbian)
- Ranked Competitive Breast Growth (a wild card as it's only trans wlw but it's like my favorite shit ever)

Last two aren't on webtoon, just Google them.

*NPCs Can Save the World Too!

Thank you. I was honestly baffled.