Oh for sure, I agree with you. Such a shame - the art is gorgeous but the story is so fucking lame
I can actually agree with you on this- in most cases, yes, this would cause distrust and trauma and conflict. In a more realistic situation, Chanwoo's response wouldn't be impossible, but it would be highly unlikely that he'd be able to be ready to jump back into it the way he does- on both sides, actually, because it looked like MD was really drained and hurt by it all during that chapter but suddenly now he has no problem turning it into a game.
BUT the poor writing does mean that in the story, Chanwoo ISN'T experiencing these things, and he isn't acting based upon the trauma and feelings this could have caused. What the author has clearly made his motivation out to be is stubbornness and pride, and he is making conscious poor choices through those.
Now, if the author could actually create that level of emotional conflict within the characters, I'd probably entirely take back my statement because Chanwoo wouldn't be acting on his own and he'd probably be way more hurt. But the reality is that this isn't the case, and both MD and Chanwoo neglected their responsibilites with nothing more than shallow pettiness and spite to show for it.
You're absolutely right. They could. And if they did, my comment would be entirely different. But whether it's due to poor writing or just Chanwoo's personality type and way of thinking, my point is that it didn't, and it's clear that Chanwoo is making these choices consciously and out of spite and stubbornness.
I agree that as readers, we should be wise enough to recognize and understand that these things shouldn't be used as cheap plot devices, and we should never confuse these actions as healthy for a real life relationship.
BUT I also don't think that we should fill in the blanks to make up for her cheap writing and create emotions and depth that are clearly not there, and then react towards the fake depth we've added to them.
Someone angrily said that Chanwoo was struggling with his inner demons due to his past and I'm wondering where in the story she could have pulled that from, because it's apparent in the writing that that does not exist.
No, Chanwoo is not making these decisions out of spite. He just wants to keep the dom/sub relationship. That’s it. But MD can’t deal bc he got romantically rejected. Man, who would have thought MD was such a loser lol He definitely had no problem discarding and ghosting his past subs but the moment one of them is like ‘hmm let’s just stay professional for our cam show’, he loses his shit.
He chose to not use his safeword out of spite for the situation despite knowing he could be in actual danger, and refused orders from his dom to say the words that would free him. That's what I'm referring to him doing out of spite. Then, he chooses not to give up the dom/sub relationship even after all of that.
A dom/sub relationship requires both the consent and cooperation if a dom and of a sub, if the dom doesn't want to, then the sub should accept that and vice versa.
Also- if a person is hurt because of heartbreak and doesn't want to continue to have sexual relations with someone else, that's perfectly valid. Any person can choose who they want to have sex with, and it's not childish to be hurt by romantic rejection. That can happen to anyone at any age. He had never gotten romantically interested in any previous sub and could drop them easily but unexpectedly grew attached to Chanwoo so now everything isn't so easy, he's never dealt with that before.
MD shouldn't have gotten so emotional and he was 100% in the wrong to push it that far, but Chanwoo was in the wrong to also violate the rules and refuse to give his safeword. That was his decision. My point was that they were both not making the right choices, but each DID have a choice.
Even with your logic gymnastics (lol), this doesn’t mean Chanwoo is doing anything out of spite. He seriously only wants the dom/dub relationship. That’s it. He thinks that if he says yes to everything MD says and endures the plays longer, he can still stick around as a sub. Also... Why would he want to get into a relationship when each one he’s had ends up with him getting abused? Kuro, tbh the more you write the less you make sense - I’m not sure what your point is anymore. If it’s to justify MD’s sketch behavior as a dom, then nah I can’t agree with you no matter what you say.
That is away from my topic and from what everyone is commenting about. They aren't talking about the author(who I agree has absolutely neglected so many vital emotional conflicts), they are talking about the characters themselves and the nonexistent (in the story) trauma and pain and consequences that have occurred, and then refusing to see the reality of the story- that is, that it IS nonexistent.
Now, if you want to talk about the author and think we should be talking about WHY it is nonexistent instead, I absolutely agree. I love this story, but the amount of pain and anguish and trauma that the scene should have caused was completely washed over and condensed into a short period of under-the-blanket sulking and solved with a simple apology and a promise for a date.
That was a very cheap move, and unfortunately, it happens way too often in any kind of story. In real life, that kind of a move (from MD or Alex) can do permanent damage on one's psyche, trust, and the relationship as a whole, and a person may not be able to handle being touched by that person in weeks or ever again, depending on the severity and the nature of the relationship itself. I do wish we got to see that, and I wish they could have worked things out in a more realistic way and time span.
he literally said that the only reason he didn't say the safeword was because he didn't want MD to "Win"
Spite means a desire to hurt, annoy, or offend someone. What MD is doing now to Chanwoo is out of spite. Chanwoo holding out and wanting to win is stubbornness with a dash of dumbassery.
I'm not justifying MD's behavior as a dom, just the emotions he had as a person because he keeps getting called childish for reacting like any normal human being in terms of what je felt. But as a dom, like I said flat out, he was entirely in the wrong.
My point is and has been from the very start of this topic that they BOTH were wrong as an argument to the idea that Chanwoo did nothing to be in his situation and was 100% a victim. No matter what reason Chanwoo had to do what he did, he made the decision ON HIS OWN to do it.
He violated the rules of bdsm, just as MD did, by not saying the safeword as was his own responsibility and continued to prolong the danger he was in (because while MD was screwing up BIG TIME, he made it clear he would stop in Chanwoo said the word).
And he also didn't use it after the slap and manipulation, nor did he choose to leave when given the choice.
Thus, both messed up, and Chanwoo isn't the fragile, helpless victim people are painting him to be.
I do think that wanting to "win" in the case of the choking chapter when he knew that MD was irritated, butthurt, and angry was pretty spiteful, but if we disagree on that that's okay.
So then yes, it is out if stubbornness.
Chanwoo is literally a victim of domestic violence. He just got callously used by someone he was attracted to - mentally super unstable. He feels like the only way he can keep on playing with MD is to say yes to everything he asks him to do. Like wtf are you even talking about?
ugh use your brain cells. If English is not your first language I get it, but if it is you have no excuse. Spite is a really strong word. Chanwoo is not acting out of spite - if he was, he wouldn’t care if he was a sub or not. Bro is not interested in MD romantically to try to hurt him that way.
He's a victim of domestic violence to all of his ex-boyfriends. Then he dumps them when he gets hit. He states it himself.
I'm not denying he is a victim in those relationships.
I'm strictly talking about his and MD's relationship- in which case, he has continuously made bad choices just as MD has, and is also choosing on his own to stay for the play rather than walk away from these people who are in no way forcing him to stay, given that they even told him up front that he did not have to stay.
If he had said the safeword and MD didn't stop, if MD made it clear to him that he never had a choice and that MD would do what he wanted with Chanwoo no matter what, then yes, I'd say Chanwoo was a victim and only MD was in the wrong, but that isn't the case.
If MD wants him to say the safeword then he shouldn't even been doing the play in the first place.
You are trying to blame this whole shitshow on Chanwoo and then feebly adding that MD is not perfect when you started getting rebuttals to your wordy, aimless messages. It's exhausting talking to you bc you are so dense.
Kudos to you for being so respectful throughout the entire thread, and acknowledging the faults and mistakes of both sides despite some people insulting and trashtalking you. :) Also to the people siding on Chanwoo and actually tried to understand your points.
Heh, thank you
I guess I didn't do a very good job at illustrating my point in the end, though
well said post (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ good job! too much there are too many trolls that love to victimize Chan with no good reason attacking people for their opinion.
too bad there is too many* fix
No one here is a "victim" and due formal concern for REAL LIFE circumstances, you REALLY need to understand that. People are flawed. People make mistakes. But people's poor choices that put themselves into bad places do NOT make them victims.
Yeah, MD knew that Chanwoo was susceptible to manipulation, but Chanwoo was also well aware that MD was 1. Hurt by rejection, and 2. Sadistic. It was NOT okay that Chanwoo decided to bring a guy who he wanted to have a romantic relationship with to the guy who he just rejected that relationship from. You tall about how MD made Chanwoo "uncomfortable" but ?? How uncomfortable and hurtful do you think that was for MD? And if Chanwoo didn't have any feelings for MD, then from MD's perspective, it shouldn't be that big of a deal that MD would choose someone else to be his partner. Him easily dropping subs was one of the first things we learn about his personality. And any human would most likely not react well to that kind of situation- not saying it's okay to go as far as he did, but? What was he supposed to do? Smile and accept it with open arms? He may be older, but that doesn't mean he'll act super mature and make all the right choices. Chanwoo is a grown ass male too.
Chanwoo has a bad history of choosing manipulative and abusive lovers because he's too weak to their attractive faces and falls for them without paying attention to red flags. Awful, but it's a mistake he has yet to learn from. The problem is that Chanwoo, as we've seen time and time again, is incredibly stubborn and prideful, even if it means he'll get hurt, but that's HIS character flaw. HE chooses out of his own volition to be that way. MD should not have been manipulative, but he didn't threaten to harm him or try to guilt him or anything, just said he'd choose a different sub, which he, as the dom, had every right to do. So no, it's not like an average abusive relationship and you can't compare it to that. Chanwoo is not a victim if he is aware of the entire situation, was given an out, and is consciously choosing to continue EVEN after being slapped (which, contrary to y'alls beliefs, IS a common thing in BDSM) when he could have said he didn't want it or given a safe word. That's called a poor choice, that's called pride, and that's called (to us, as the audience) making a mistake. But to him, clearly spite and being a sub was more important than the humiliation.
There is some sympathy for both sides, but both sides have flaws and things to work on, and neither side is completely correct or should be victimized.