I like porn just as much as any one else, but this was just so hard to finish. It's trying to be a story and also trying to be porn but it ends up as neither - so now it's just a shitty manhwa...
i downvoted accidentally mb
How do u do that it keeps upvoting mine when i dont even agree to it like these fuckers here saying they enjoyed the side stories like the creppy disgusting shit they are
LMAOOO yeah its just rhat the two options are so close together ppl often press the wrong one
No but i literally pressed the downgote snd it still upvote it
Ahhh... the uke is basically a doggo. Happy and cheerful creature existing on a single brain cell.
I didn't think my porn would get a romance arc but here we are... GIMME MOREEEEE!
Very shocking, really didn't think this was it would go down. But hey... I live for these uncomfortable, hard truth stories so let's go!
Everyone is hating on Ao here but they're forgetting the initial world building that the author so painstakingly did in the start. Allow me to explain why Ao behaved the way that he did (it is a LONG read, so buckle up).
What do you think was the point of having herbivores and carnivores of different species? It's a device to easily identify the possible attitudes and personalities of each person at a glance. Let's look at the main ones we saw - the large and small herbivores.
The large herbs we saw were the Stag and Bull customers. They were able to confront Asuka at the beginning because they are much larger and stronger and are known to handle a fight or confrontation well. Meanwhile, Ao and his family are Rabbits! They are so small and exist on the lowest rung of the food chain. They don't eat anyone and are hunted by as small a predator as a fox. So, their submissive and conflict-avoidant behaviour is completely valid.
Meanwhile, the point of emphasis the author has been trying to make this whole time is that VIOLENCE ISN'T THE ANSWER. It is what the Sakuragi clan has been trying to instill in their way of operation. And perhaps the most important being that violence was what killed Asuka's father. In fact, perhaps the most important use of the species mechanic was to use as juxtaposition for each gang's behaviour. You either live by violence/conflict like the Hirosakis or you subvert it and are able to live peacefully like the Sakuragis.
While some may see "forgiveness" as being a flaw in the writing, I think it's realistic maturity being displayed by both Ao and Asuka. Technically speaking, Asuka entered another gang's territory and didn't explain why he was there. Any real gang would think it's some shake down or or move to expand their territory. As already pointed out, Asuka is the next gang leader and naivete is a poor excuse for poor conduct.
Also, think about an alternative ending and what the possible outcomes would have been should Asuka take a violent approach. The Sakuragi clan going to war with the Hirosakis, and the latter escalating their violent attacks on Ao's family as revenge? Ao, Asuka or both ending up injured, maimed or dead from some gang fight? What is the endgame of going with this approach? It would go against the whole narrative of the story.
I honestly think the way Ao and Asuka have been behaving throughout this manga is rather consistent with his species. I truly applaud the author for having taken the time to world build and create an underlying message that was the core of this manga. While I'm not so naive as to think my explanation could change minds, I hope that it at least shed some light on the subject.
Well said! I know a lot of people are upset that Ao wasn't mad about almost being raped but also... Not everyone holds a grudge. How you react to painful situations is different for everyone. We tend to jump to violence online because saying we'd kill each other or fictional characters doesn't affect anyone in real life.
Point is, very well said. I agree with the whole post.
While I have no prior experience with sexual assault, I can agree that people have varying thresholds for grudges. Some people don't even hold any and blame themselves.
And yes, while I'm not sure if I'm generalizing, people nowadays tend to attack rather than problem solve. An attack can be a solution but it's not the only solution. Sometimes understanding and helping is a better solution. But the loud internet folk are generally for revenge or hurt. Thinking about it makes me kinda sad sometimes...
I can’t speak for everyone but the frustrating part about this story is that the “violence isn’t the answer” is only held against Asuka. Ao not wanting to hold a grudge about possibly being raped and human trafficked is whatever, it’s the fact that he blames Asuka for “using violence” when Asuka was put in a situation that it was necessary to do so. Ao then falls off the story until Asuka has gone to rectify the situation and simple just is now ready to accept that he loves Asuka? It feels cheap and doesn’t really do any favors for the story after the author set up the scene.
I get that writing is difficult and trying to tel a story in a single volume means cutting out details, but I don’t think it’s unfair to be critical about what you’re reading.
Forgiveness is not the fatal flaw in this manga. The author decided that escalating the conflict with the local gang was what the main characters needed, but didn’t follow through on developing both of them after it. Asuka is the only one that has any major development following the destruction of Ao’s family restaurant. He also makes the decision to rectify the situation without any input from Ao.
While Asuka was in the wrong initially, the conclusion makes it seem odd that the other clan would react to him simply visiting. The reason everything was solved incredibly easily makes the initial actions of the clan seem excessive. There was a connection there, it wasn’t like Asuka was from a clan that they didn’t know.
It makes the last chapters feel like plot for plot’s sake. And when Ao suddenly appears again, he’s just ready to accept Asuka and they don’t even get to talk about the way they left things between each other.
I love the world building and the life the characters bring to it. But that is why I’m going to be critical of it.
I apologize, this is a very long rant not directed at you specifically. You wrote your thoughts vey well.
Meh, fair enough. Personally, I don't have the energy to be picky. I do agree, the ending is a bit rushed. But I mostly mentioned the sensitivity of people because newer people are coming to this website and it's becoming painfully obvious they have high standards. I'm not saying rape and human trafficking is good thing. I avoid the "dead dove, do not eat" on Ao3 like the plague.
But I've read yaoi and BL since Junjou and Sekaiichi and it wasn't really a big deal back then but newer people reading this stuff are getting high expectations from the Japanese/Korean gay porn they're reading. (I'm only mentioning these two nationalities because I've only seen this problem on manga and manhwa comments). I'm not trying to sound like an old person, I'm literally from this generation.
I'm mentioning this because when it comes to yaoi, complaining (not specifically you. Your reply was very elegantly put) gets you nothing. Read it or don't. I choose not to read dead dove, do not eat. I ain't gonna complain if I do read it and something I don't like happens. That's fiction and that's yaoi. Unsavory things happen all the time and the media is surviving because, clearly, some people like it.
And honestly, the correct response would be to go to the authorities. There's no fuckin way this town has no police. But also, there's no win situation. Doing nothing means nothing, beating the shit outta someone means they're coming for you. If there's no satisfactory situation or win win situation, just don't write the damn manga unless ya really wanna.
I can definitely agree with the points you've raised. While I fully understand why Asuka has to be the one to rectify the escalated gang violence on Ao, the sudden reconciliation between Asuka and Ao was rushed for sure.
My only way of resolving this dissonance is that Ao is just very conflict avoidant plus he was still on the fence about how to treat Asuka. Since he sort of raised him as a little brother, his attitude seems somewhat consistent with how you'd reprimand a sibling's bad behavior. After some distance, perhaps it has given Ao some chance to explore his romantic feelings for Asuka that eased their reconciliation?
As for the need for escalating the violence itself, it's likely for the sake of emphasizing the juxtaposition I highlighted before. By making the gang seem more ruthless, it can better differentiate the approach used by both gangs. Though to be frank, there are a few things I'm not quite sure had to happen.
(1) Firstly, I doubt Ao is that gorgeous or androgenous to illicit that level of sexual violence - could have just been a hostage situation (that's just my taste).
(2) Secondly, I'm not sure how gangs operate in Japan but I've seen gangster throw paint on building facades as a threats. Perhaps destroying a whole restaurant sends a larger message?--I don't know...
(3) Lastly, the Hirosaki head is a newgen just like Asuka (for comparison sake likely), but if the prior chairman was the solution, I feel that there was no need to have the newgen exist/condone the violence. Since the Asuka's dad was killed by an underling, maybe there's a way to incorporate the Hirosaki boss' treatment/handling of the underlings and the latter's eventual reflection on their behavior as a better way to tie up that loose end. But hey, that's just my take.
Anyway, I do feel it is really difficult to cram into a single volume the content necessary to please everyone or address all plot holes. So I've definitely given a lot of leeway to the author in this regard. I don't dislike criticism though, it offers a great way to discuss and debate civilly, and that's fun!
Hmmm I don’t think comparing yaoi manga to a tag on Ao3 works here. The Dead Dove tag works becomes it comes in a package with other tags that allow you to make a decision without reading it. Manga doesn’t have such complex tags. So yes I can avoid Incest or Shota, but there isn’t tags for everything that I’d rather not see when I pick a manga to read.
I know your rant wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll respond because it’s interesting-
I can’t recall the first yaoi I’ve read but it’s been 20 years. Back then I would pretty much read anything within reason (as long as it didn’t involve children). As the old person here, I have to say it’s not really a matter of having higher standards, at least not in regards to rape. Those popular Korean webtoon are full of rape the same way the old yaoi manga were. If anything they’re even worse because the length of them allows the artist to really draw out the sex scenes and plot. So you get characters that are assholes and rapists for 50+ chapters sometimes!
I have noticed a lot of newer readers are very picky about art style though. I’ve never seen so many people shit on an artist before but now it’s so normalized. They also want longer comics (and vertical) which is why we keep seeing manga get cut up into a “webtoon” format.
The biggest difference I’ve noticed though is how many younger readers I see that can’t remember any names of the characters (so they default to MC or ML in discussion). They’re consuming so many ongoing series that they can barely retain the information. I’ve seen people complete a 100 chapter webtoon and then comment that they didn’t know what was going on (but they kept reading because the sex scenes). In my experience, I don’t think it’s a matter of higher standards. As long as the art is nice and the sex scenes are good, they’ll read anything.
Which is why I think it’s good to discuss what you’re reading in a critical way. You don’t need to avoid a manga just because it’s not 100% to your taste, and you don’t need to stop yourself from commenting about where it fell flat for you either.
Ao wanting to reprimand Asuka from the position as the older brother figure is exactly why him appearing as a willing partner to suddenly reciprocate his feelings feels so off. I said in a separate comment on this manga after chapter 5 that it desperately needed a time skip so that it would feel more believable. We desperately needed some introspection from Ao.
As for the gang stuff, I don’t think I was clear enough. So let me break this down:
- Asuka visits the town with Asahi, which puts the Hirosaki clan on edge.
But prior to Asuka coming, we also know this:
- Hirosaki clan wants more money from the town.
- They have threatened other shops.
- Other shops have closed down.
- Most importantly, the Hirosaki and Sakuragi clans knew each other and were even on good terms.
Everything about the major conflict in this manga just feels off because of that last point. If anyone should be incredibly sensitive about violence, it would be Asuka’s clan. But they encourage and allow him to go alone to Hirosaki’s base. Why? It doesn’t make any sense.
And then the entire conflict ends because the old head knew Asuka’s grandfather and liked his Dad? That was it? If that was the case, why are we even here? What was the point of everything that happened? If it happened for Ao and Asuka’s romance, how come we don’t get to see that either?
That is why it feels weird and off, and that’s why a lot of the comments seem unhappy after chapter 4.
So yeah, writing and condensing a story into ~200 manga pages IS hard! Condensing a story for any medium is hard. But sometimes you have to make significant changes if the story ends up reading poorly. Obviously we can’t talk to the mangaka, but amongst ourselves we should. It’s healthy to critique work we’ve consumed because at the end of the day, not everything will be amazing. This manga was just okay.
Being critical of a story is chill and all but if it's a core factor of the story: why finish it if you know you'll dislike the ending?
The last few chapters have been unsatisfactory to many people. It's clear the manga isn't going in the direction people want. Why finish it???
I've dropped plenty of series because the plot is clearly going a direction I wasn't hoping for and I know I'll hate it. A big part of Internet culture is complaining, I get that. I'm not saying everyone has to act like me.
I'm using webtoon for this example since it's closer to manga: there's a weirdly large community on YouTube that really fucking hates Webtoons. Which, sure, whatever. But I've watched three videos about three different Webtoons: Boyfriends, The Fate, and Lore Olympus.
It's fine to share opinions on the Internet. It's fine to not like something. But all these videos about these Webtoons have something in common: They're critical about something in the series that is the main core of the story.
Boyfriends, it's the writing and how it feels very fanfic/Wattpad. The Fate, furry comic with student teacher relationships (said student is 18). Lore Olympus, Persephone's character and how she acts.
These are all kinda major things in the story that can't and aren't going to be changed anytime soon. They're the building blocks for the stories.
If you know you dislike the idea of "Violence isn't the answer" or Ao in general: why keep reading? Why did you see this manga through? Other than it's five chapters and a quick read. Fanfic readers drop stories that use first person or don't put spaces between their paragraphs. That's similar to disliking a story for their art. And even then, I barely see people drop a story for the art. They just say it art is ugly (which is already kinda a dick move).
So why keep reading if it makes you upset or angry or uncomfortable?
Again, it's okay to be critical of stuff. It's okay to dislike stuff. All those Webtoons I mentioned, it's okay to be critical of them. You made a lotta good points and honestly, have been on this website far longer than me. But it makes no logic to see a story through if someone knows they dislike it.
Many reasons to finish a manga like this: I
t is short enough and I’ve invested enough time into it to finish.
-The art is very good.
-The main character is still present and I do like them.
-And for some, they knew it would have the sex scene (I personally don’t care)
-I could be wrong and the ending could exceed my expectations (which has happened plenty of times!)
-I personally just like to finish things (unless they’re REALLY bad)
For fanfics/Ao3 stuff in general: Again, you can tell the formatting from a glance (so essentially judging the way someone may judge an art style in a manga as you mentioned) so it can’t be compared to not liking 2/5 chapters.
I’ve seen many videos on Lore Olympus, Boyfriends, Lookism, etc. I personally just like to listen to video essays when I’m at work. Some videos are just a result of someone being passionate about something that turned out to be kind of bad. So they want to talk about it. Or they were told to read it by their fans. So of course there’s a video about it. I don’t find an issue with it unless the video is just hating on the comic. If there’s good and constructive criticism, it’s a good video in my opinion. Why? Because the people that benefit from it may not be the actual artist, but other artists or writers that get to see the perspective of a reader.
I guess my point is, you see it as complaining to complain, I see it as criticism (when it actually is critical, not just “omg Ao sucks!”). I can just as easily ignore nonsense comments on this manga as anyone else can just stop reading said manga.
Crying because I wrote a reply to this already but I’m guessing it didn’t actually go through because I don’t see it anymore
Is it okay if we just delete this whole conversation? I just mean the replies between you and me because I feel like I was a huge asshole and I'm really sorry for coming off so rude. Legit, please. I really don't want this to be on my account and I really regret a lot of the shit I spouted as soon as I woke up. I'm really sorry if I worded my replies too strongly or was sounded uppity.
Nvm, I learned you can't delete replies. Well, fuck me. Imma just end my whole bloodline instead--
I actually found you to be pretty chill to talk to, unsure if my replies came across in a way that made you feel like you were being anything other than cordial with me? Don’t worry about it, I thought it was a good discussion.
Hahaha no worries. I'm sure it was a greatly reply. Really enjoyed the discussion btw ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶
I agree as well. I wouldn't say you were rude but more so frustrated with the situation. That's a valid emotion you're feeling given that something negative is happening in your space of interest. Don't worry about it, I'm sure anyone reading these replies will find that you were more than fine. (▰˘◡˘▰)
Damn this is one long ass comment & reply sections.
Hey, your reply came through! I read all of it and totally agree with the points you raised.
There are definitely inconsistencies with how the Sakuragi clan portrays themselves and how they act. They are sensitive to their own townsfolk but not when they handle things in another gang's town (hmmm?). I know Asuka was meant to be a naive would-be leader but you can't expect me to give the same level of leeway to the older cousin, his uncle or his mom.
Doubly agree on the conflict resolution. When one creates this kind of high-stakes tension, if the resolution is too quick and overly simplistic, the tension ends up feeling cheap. The audience will end up thinking, "why have it exist in the first place?" Honestly, if I really wanted to describe every plot hole this comment section would be an entire essay.
Having said all that, I really do commend the author for trying to make a piece with deeper meaning. A lot of the newer stuff out there is rather superficial and focuses on just the two leads with not much else (as little meat on the bone as possible). Probably because the masses seem quick to lap up anything if the art is decent enough. (I believe someone previously pointed this out, can't quite recall)
As I grow older I find myself very selective with what I read since time is so precious and the mountain of adult responsibilities never end. This manga wasn't the best but I did find it interesting enough to read to the end, so in my books, not too shabby!
Can relate with criticisms about SA and cougar-minor thing. There are probably better approaches to achieve a similar outcome.
BUT I really really like the overall process of seeing Hayakawa grow out of his trauma through observing and befriending the very juxtaposition of himself. I also found the over reliance on external gratification and stumbling through teen crushes quite relatable. What's even better is that the mangaka's artistic skill is amazing. It was able depict the subtle changes in emotion and the scenes' emotional tone perfectly.
I couldn't care less about the cougar-minor (since it's just a side part of the story), but honestly the author could simply change the nurse with any other girl and it would work just the same ╮(￣▽￣)╭ Guess it's just the author's taste to use a nurse x student trope
Yeah true. I mean, when you can fulfill a harmless fantasy... Why not? ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Holy shit, this is fucking reverse gap moe! Our puppy turned gangsta! IT'S HAMMER TIME!!!
I've only just started and they swapped out the hunk for a child (￣ε(#￣)Σ. I sure hope he regains his hunk-ness soon...