天下第一好师尊's Topics (242)

Ikr. But Idk what to do. I like sourin too. And recently I saw some SouMako that made me confused cuz it was awesome. But also the Rinmako is good. T_T foursome and that's it. The only match I'm sure of is NagisaRen

Uhm, yeah they did. It killed me, too. There's this prequel called Diary of Sangchul. It was explained there. It's ok if it was in the past but really, why did Mookyul have to sleep with the old man when he already have Ewon? Well, at least everything worked out in the end. Guess, it was kind of karma for Ewon since he was cheating with his ex, too. *sigh*

Okay... *takes out a knife* Thank you so much for the information. I'll see you in the afterlife.

Well. To me reading the part where he said the old man doesn't like making/piercing hole on him. Kinda made me think well at least he was (and is) topping both relationship

Well. As long as he is topping, it's still fine i guess. But I'm not really a fan of uncle uke... I'm not...*covers uncle uke pictures on phone* This is just reference, alright...

They did have a sexual relationship but without penetration. It consisted of frotting (Rubbing/holding/masturbating two penises together for sexual pleasure) where Mookyul played the submissive part and the old man was dominant. That's what Mookyul means when he tells Fox Jun that what he did with the President was "different" than what they did. I really don't want to further traumatize you, sorry! I know for a fact that most of us had and still have a really hard time with the whole thing between Mookyul and the President. It's a matter of second-hand sense of betrayal on behalf of Fox Jun because whether there was penetration or not, it was still a sexual relationship so that makes it unequivocally cheating.....oh, the thought that it was also on the same bed Fox Jun slept with Mookyul! ggrr!!!!!!!!

And to top it all off, we got that extra manga that gives us the backstory of the old man's, Mookyul's and Sangchul's relationship which drove a lot of us over the edge. That was one story I could have done without!! (#－.－)

finally someone who gets me!! i really can't see why this manga is so popular and loved when everyone ignores the cheating lol. i've read it years ago and wanted to kill someone after, and i still want to do it now

M knew he was cheating, that's why he lied to E. if he actually thought it was okay he wouldn't have kept it a secret, especially after being confronted about it.
just don't get how E could forgive him, especially so fast, it was literally 'oh i have another emotional problem so all is good now', at least make M suffer or have him wait a few years, proof is love idk..

i never touched the doujinshi about the relationship, i honestly don't even know why the mangaka decided to make it? that old uncle was just irgh, and their sorta family-relationship made it even worse. also, if you include the cheating details to make ir 100% clear, do it in the original work so all those die hard fans can see too lol

sorry rant, just saw this in the comment section, and i still hate M to this day. in my theory E will hopefully break up lol (esp. , i don't remember it well but didn't E ask M not to see his uncle? and he ignored it? or was E seriously so dumb to be fine with M keeping on seeing the uncle alone? (even if they only talked, just no))

Don't you think you're being a little too emotional over this manhwa?

I can relate...if only the so call relationship of him and his 'father' didn't exist at all in this manhwa, then this would have been one of my top fav but that whole event just ruins the whole story for me e-e It started out great too and then -that- happened...the author really shouldn't have included that in there. Jun should've just left completely to elsewhere instead of going back to him.

Trust me when I say that I feel you, wholeheartedly, but I don't hate the Manhwa, I actually love it, and that is exactly why the whole Mookyul/President thing torments me. I love both Mookyu'ls and Euwon's character, precisely because they are not one-dimensional because they are both complicated and emotionally damaged, and most likely will never overcome many of their issues.

The scene where Euwon confronts Mookyul regarding his relationship with the President is probably one of the most emotionally charged scenes I have ever read in Yaoi. It is electrifying, and it made me love and respect Euwon immensely. I love how he confronted Mookyul and I love how he walks away. This is the scene that still gives me goosebumps, no matter how many times I read it, and I have read it hundreds of times!
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/totally_captivated/mh/c035/13/

I also kind of disagree regarding Euwon easily forgiving Mookyul. Relative to time, it may have been just a month or weeks, but Euwon paid Mookyul back in the worst possible way by sleeping with other people, and even worst, by sleeping with his best friend; and the reason why that was the worst punishment is because Mookyul has to be one of the (if not the most) Jealous Possessive lover in the history of Yaoi, compounded by the fact that Euwon is really the first and only person Mookyul has really ever loved, so his possessiveness is intensified by this fact, his fear-based obsession in losing the only human being he has ever loved. In his specific case, it would have been less painful if Euwon would have made him wait a year, but remaining celibate; but instead, he really tore Mookyul's heart out and stomped on it by sleeping around, tormenting Mookyul to the brink of insanity knowing that his Fox Jung had slept/and was probably sleeping with other men, and worst, with Moon, because he knew that Euwon cared for his best friend. It hurt me that Euwon went on that spiral of self-destructiveness, but I was also kind of glad he did it, that he made Mookyul suffer.

Also, there is real pathos in Mookyul's feelings and relationship with the Pres. Mookyul was an orphan in the streets and the President was the first human being (after child Euwon) that had treated him with kindness, that is why he felt genuine gratitude and loyalty for the old man. Also, since the old man took him so young, Mookyul didn't really have any sexual experience, so whatever warped idea of sex he had, he learned from the Pres, this is the reason why he was able to rationalize his relationship with the old man, because he really thought he was doing the right thing, even though deep down he knew there was something wrong. The moral responsibility lay with the old man, who obviously spat on all sense of decency by taking advantage of a little orphan. The exact reason why I hate the president with the intensity of a thousand hells.

The very last manga, the final one with Euwon's little sister, shows us just how very emotionally damaged both Mookyul and Euwon still are, and most likely will always be, but that despite all those emotional issues they really love each other, and that in fact, for the two of them, there can never be anyone else but the two of them, because they elevate each other. Anyways, that is a small part of my literary analysis of their story and relationship, and I understand exactly why people were put off by Mookyul's cheating with the Pres, because I feel the same way, but despite all that, I recognized that it ended up serving as a complex and dramatical element of the plot, and I was able to appreciate their love for each other, the struggles they went through and where they ended up, emotionally, at the end of it all :)

i have to disagree. i really don't think you get me.

tbh i don't know how to write this without bashing the manga, but it's not like i said i like it.

first of all, i don't find M deep or a 3d personality in any way. i've read this stories years ago, but there was nothing special about him, i' don't know how long you read yaoi and since when, but at the time this came around, semes like M were super popular. it became a (overused) trope to have a cool, good-looking seme, who was powerful, had a bas past and 'never ever loved anybody before, wasn't even able too, until the uke came along'
M fitted exactly in there. the same goes for the entire manga, it's full with tropes, clichés and typical yaoi plot, at least for the time it came out. actually, the only remoting SPECIAL thing about this WAS M's relationship with his adoptive dad. it was really unusal to have the cold seme to actually cheat, to maybe even have the bottom role, with an old bastard. because it completely destroys the image built beforehand. maybe this paradox behaviour of M made him appear deep for you, but for me, it just made him an asshole that lost all the little appeal he has beforehand. ionly cares fot this story because of E.


when i analyze a story, i actually focus more on the storystelling, the story itself, and what the mangaka thought. probably because i write stories myself, but also becausw i think that only focusing on the fictional charactera feelings etc. doesn't give you a whole image, and often leads to overanalyzing and even justifying all they did, which is kinda what you are doing. the 'they have problems, are faulty, didn't mean it' are all nice and all, but in the bigger picture it's still not accurate.

i also think you understood me wrong. in no way did i meant that E should tell M to wait for a year and that's it, i meant it in a way that E keepa on living normally and then, maybe, when M comes around after a year gives him a second chance. i also could go deeper into how sleeping with othera to punish your ex is just unhealthy, stupid ans childish, like a teen taking drugs to make his parents worry, but you know it's destructive so..
i could have accepted it if it was a way to make M suffer and for E to get his revenge to move on, but all it did in the story was M being unhappy but still not seeing the wrongs he did. like i said, long time ago so pleasw correct me, but has M ever apologized? did he ever sat down to really talk about how E's trust in him was completely shattered? more than the cheating itself i hated that M never came around, i still have the feeling he didn't understand ans will continue his relationship with the pres in the future, because that's the way he came off.

that said, their pasts were total bullshits. again, completely nornal for all yaoi ppl to have (unbelievable bad pasts), but E's bad past came out of nowhere and had absolutely no duty in this story other than bringing E and M back together. idk whether the mangaka couldn't decide beforehand or just thought of it, but there was no building up to E's past like to M's. (and yes, plottwist need build ups)
also, the 'they actually knew eaxh other as children and were friends etc.' trope, omg i forgot that but thanks for reminding me, because this is everything i dislike about the story. (glad that trope is dead except for shoujou)
the fact that E's whole 'dark past' suddenly gets more attentiok than the cheating, which then is just ignored, is what bothered me the most

i don't think the manwha is deep or even tackles realistic problems, shows problematic characters etc. this manwha just is full of tropes and story devices, and really like most mangas at the time
you never found fluff or normal pasts, it was always people dealing with super problematic issues. and

i could go deeper into M's behaviour (srsly he was old enough to grasp the concept of sex, even abused children are aware that what was happening to them is wrong, don't try to justify his cheating and denying it with that lol)

but i still think that this manwha has many story issues, the biggest one putting the cheating in there and then not dealing with it appropriately, i don't think super analyzing their personalities is gonna help that in anyway. i didn't care for M, his past or anything, i was only hit by the cheating because i liked E and it was a disgusting relationship (not dealing with cheating, rape etc. was and is one of my squicks anyway)

i probably wouldn't even care for E as much if it was not for M being an asshole. so it kinda goes hand in hand with the cheating. the thing making this story stand out is the bad thing

i also haven't read the DJ nor will i, but if it's not in the main story it has little to no relvance here. if the mangaka wasn't able to show and portray something there, then it's simply not in the story. (also because i think publishing fricking DJ of your own manwha instead of at least a continuation is either money grabbing or one of those authors who had one succesful story and now can't let go)

the drama made reading it more emotional, yes, and if you likes that good for you. but for me it felt like killing a few beloved characters just to give some depth, substance, meaning and drama. and i think we can agree that killing characters just for an emotional reactiom of the readers doesn't speak for a good story. and for me, this story did just that, it killed M's and E's relationship instead

Actually, the entire process of literary analysis requires the evaluation of not just the plot or author's voice, but the evaluation and interpretation of many many other devices, including the characters; an exercise in nuance, context, and symbolic reading and much more to attain understanding without being straightforwardly told or shown by the text, and I know this because literary analysis and symbolic interpretation is part of my academic background in the social sciences. Being a writer does not make one an effective literary analyst, or vice-versa. Criticizing a Yaoi story as cliched sheds light on two things, that you have a poor understanding of the Yaoi genre and most probably a poor understanding of yourself; why you might ask? because simply put, Yaoi is, and I emphasize the word "is", a cliched genre,(the entire romance genre is cliched) with stories here and there that transcend themselves, but that ultimately, a genre that is formulaic, and most Yaoi readers (and romance readers) understand this and are honest enough with themselves to admit to being ok with it (a guilty pleasure indeed). Neither the genre nor its readers presumptuously claim or expect profundity. However, this manhwa despite its common cliched elements did differentiate itself for many of the reasons I already stated, because it is not the typical one-dimensional romance where the characters are faithful to each other and/or follow the typical rules of romanticism and the happy ending, which I happen to also totally enjoy, btw. To not like or abhor this manhwa or Mookyul's character or accept the DJs as canon is your prerogative. However, based on your feedback I can infer some things about your interpretive skills, for example, when you complain that Mookyul never apologized to Euwon; which he actually did, but it seems that you are not able to capture that, which makes any further discussion futile. At the end of the day, your opinion is not less valid than anyone else's, but based on what you have shown here, it is not an opinion based on knowledge.

no, but being a writer means you study how to bring something across, how you manipulate the reader or get them to feel something etc. you analyze the story not from the readers pov but the authors. also, lol, congrats. literal analysis is part of nearly ever shit you study, but this isn't some famous piece of writing, it's a fucking manwha. i'm not writing my bachelor degree on this, where is your analysis? where are the quotes? in korean of course? ffs

get the stick out of your ass seriously. i wrote my opinion on this manwha, and i said it was mine, and it was you who came at me telling how you feel the same, but then did go trying to justify what i critisized by the ' they are flawed characters so it makes sense' lol

no, i don't have a poor understanding, how does it even relate with myself what i think about yaoi ?, but 1) you're confusing tropes with clichés, tropes are the guilty pleasures 2) yes, like you may have read, if your reading comprehension is actually able to do it, that i said most yaois at the time were like this. (and still are) i brought this up because it was YOU who claimed that this story is somewhat special, while all it does is using the same story devices, clichés and tropes yaoi used at the time, except for the nature of M's relationship with his father.

it's actually funny how you try to undermine my opinion by using ad hominem instead of actually saying anything about what i said. i will repeat again: flawed characters, flawed relationships, no fluff and happy-go-lucky stories were like 90% of yaoi that time. this WAS normal then, and the standard. and if this is your argument for saying this story is special it's probably not me who has a bad understanding of yaoi.

i've read this story years ago, like i said more than once, so please excuse me for not analyzing every panel and every scene, but as far as i remember M didn't show remorse, but sure, instead of maybe telling me how he did, ad hominem again. it's people like you who make comments sections like this painful.

i never said my opinion was the only truth, i just said why the stories has errors and why i don't like it, it's you who can't have a dicussion on the matter as your comment shows obviously, so you maybe want to think twice before you start one the next time.

I actually responded to the OP, and then you jumped in making the wrong assumption and when I clarified things to you, that I actually didn't hate the manhwa as you wrongly assumed, it made you feel like a fool, and thus you responded back defensively and instead of learning from your mistake (that people that erroneously assume, end up making an ass of themselves), instead of acting graciously, you just continue to keep digging yourself in a hole. For someone who professes not to care, you are way too emotional about a simple "cliched" manhwa. You continue to insist this manhwa is garbage, and try to refute my viewpoint, but utterly fail because, again, you lack the knowledge and self-discipline, because you are operating from ignorance, and no matter how many mile-long pages you write, or how much of a writer you tell yourself you are, you simply cannot present an intelligent argument. That you don't recognize your ignorance about yourself and your lack of understanding of the Yaoi genre is evident in your erratic posts. My sincere advice to you is to self-reflect, take a good look at what you have written and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something about yourself. Then again, maybe you are aware of your ignorance, and that is why you are acting so emotionally. Either way, best of luck in life to you; you will need it.

no, clarifying would have been telling me that you didn't meant it like that, liked it, whatever. not writing an ass-long paragraph about E and M, and even then, this wasn't the problem? i mean come on, don't act as if you don't know it. you told OP your opinion, i agreed, you 'clarified' what you meant ie. writing your view down, i disagreed with that, you apparently got offended and told me my opinion isn't worth shit because of my lacking interpretive skills lol. i never offended you, i just 'clarified' my opinion just as you did. what did you expect honestly? that someone says they disliked the cheating (heads up, the OP did too) and you write them how it's good for the story though and they kiss your ass for it? just agree? this discussion was in no way personal until you made it that way, and still, instead of focusing on anything said about the story, you go on and on about me.

what else can you write instead of ad hominen and spouting bullshit? how about actually talking about what i said? the only ignorance here is coming from you, you're acting all mighty and high and unable to accept that other people can have a different opinion on a thing you like, without being dumb. i hope you don't actually write scientific papers like that too. (maybe you need the luck a lot more than i do)

also again, learn how to read. i didn't say this manga is garbage, i just said it's not special and i don't think the second 'drama' half is well done i even explained on completely valid points where my view stems from. i'm not 'hating'. i said that only criticizing it will sound like 'bashing'. but i don't remember the good points nor were we focusing on them anyway.

yeah, yeah. my understanding of the yaoi genre. that's why you presented me with so much arguments against my statement. also, for someone trying to defend a whole genre i never even bad mouthed (when yaoi being clichéd is a well-known fact (except for my ignorant ass of course) how is stating that it is clichéd (by me??) ignorant? also, just because many shit is produced in a genre doesn't mean you can use it as an excuse. it's still bad to use clichés. (if none of the artists were able to draw decent hands you wouldn't say 'you can't criticize the hands, they all draw them that bad' either. or maybe you would. but that would be stupid. and aren't right?)
and because i have such a bad understanding about the genre, i know many yaois that, oh gosh, don't use clichés. how do they exist? who knows. (also i hope you googled trope. since well, you completely ignores that. even though that was my job)

i don't care much about the story anymore, hell i even forgot their names. but i care about people like you, living in a time where trump was voted president because people aren't able to hold an actual discussion on the internet anymore, thinking they're more clever than the rest and only their opinion is the truth like you do, just makes me sick to my stomach. maybe listen to what you preach, it's not good walking around with a plank in your eye.

Funny how according to you the opinion of everyone that thinks this manga’s great is not valid, but your opinion that this manga is shit “is”. Riiiiight! and blowing off on the previous poster when you are the asshole that jumped to conclusions, even though there was nothing in their post that implied he/she shared your vitriolic hatred of the manga/mc and when they put it straight to you, that one can actually enjoy an overall story even if there are things we hate, instead of doing the mature thing like apologizing for stupidly assuming wrong, you just continue to pile on the horseshit, accusing them of doing what YOU have been doing all along. Your histrionics over a manga that you claim is crap is just fucking abnormal

You are the perfect example of why the idea that “everyone’s opinion is valid” is poison to public discourse, because it creates a false equivalence between the literate and the ignorant. It empowers dumb shits like you to think that their amateur anecdotal opinions are as valid or even more valid than the logical argumentation of educated people. And the sad thing is that you’re so fucking dumb that you’ll never get why. In the world of the mature and informed, people are only entitled to what they can logically argue for and you haven’t done that here with your diarrhea of the fingers… and you arrogantly state that you’re a “writer”, which supposedly de facto makes you a literary pro…..DELUSIONAL MUCH? don’t make me fucking laugh...

One month and I'm still waiting...
(=〒ω〒=)

kinda agree kinda don't either it's like 50/ 50