NyaruLee's Topics (619)

I might have nightmares....

I agree, the third was outrageous. I enjoyed it.

I think i stop breathing when 'Bang' word appeared on the paper. I feel sorry for Doumeki. He is loyal af but look what he got in return.
Doumeki does not deserved this!
JUSTICE FOR DOUMEKI!

Link?

Try looking for them at instagram. I mean, posting the link would put the people on trouble

I kinda have the feeling that they either ran away or died together.

wow thank you!

Agreed. It's alarming just how homophobic yaoi still is. This manga was released in 2018. Now, yes Japan doesn't have equal marriage, same sex couples adopting and the same level of acceptance, but many countries and societies are not like this. The author in this very year, said that gay men can't have committed or long term relationships, get married, have families just be mundane members of society like everyone else. Instead they tried to frame it as though all gay men must behave the way that one character does, and made no reference to this potentially being influenced by the specific context of their country. Even in Japan same-sex couples have long term relationships, and can get a partnership certificate in one city (obviously not the best, but it's a start albeit a very slow one), so even in the authors own country there are gay men who are partnered up and not behaving like the character. I think people are losing patience with such problematic stereotypes peddled in some yaoi. The author should have said that the character behaved the way he did as an individual, and was in no way representative of all gay men. And the reason why marriage is not something he has access to or can thinks about is due to his personal insecurities and that in Japan equal marriage is not yet legal. Then again this manga has it all, in the first chapter we have the 'evil yaoi woman", false information as to what marriage fraud is, homophobia, and a man who likely identified as being straight minutes before, sleeping with a man because in yaoi logic people can just decide to be gay or bisexual.

I agree with the post and everyone's reply however I don't think he said the line 'relationships between homosexual men have no future' to make this manga homophobic. I think he only said that because of something awful that happened to him. It seems as though he had also fallen in love in the past but the person left him for a woman. I think the character said that because he probably hasn't experienced having a long term-relationship with a man. I hope that his idea of gay couples not having a future together changes when this story develops! Sorry if I might have interpreted what you said wrong

Exactly. Oh God, thank you. I really thought I was the only one who found it so annoyingly biased. I can't get in my head that people who are writing about homosexual relationships have that disgusting concepts about same sex couples in 2018. Authors, THAT'S not what happens in other developed countries, it is yours that is anchored in the past. Not all of them, and definitely monogamy is a thing for gay people the same as for straight people. As if there's no cheaters or sleeping around in heteronormal relationships...

Just ugh. Gays can't get married (in your country)? Well that's definitely not ok and it's something you should work on, but that doesn't make same sex relationships neither abnormal nor meaningless. And if you think that, then you ARE homophobic too. Viewing gays/lesbians/bisexuals as a bunch that like to sleep around and hate commitment like the plague? Well you are incredibly rude and an homophobic (again) and even if the fault lies in the archaic mentality stuck in your country, you can start changing that by changing yourself first. Or at least trying.

I'm sure the way the mc uke is acting is due to some trauma (surprise! That's not a topic overused at all) because, more likely an asshole (doesn't matter what they are, gay straight or bisexual, assholes are assholes and that's it) left him to marry off someone. His way of coping with a heartbreak is to sleep around and blame all men and to think that relationships are annoying? That's perfectly fine. But stating that that's what ALWAYS happens with men and men relationships, that homosexuals can't commit and their relationships are meaningless... that's wow. Like the worst. The mc is pictured as an homophobic gay (?) Which I find disgusting, in all honesty.

The worst is that this way of thinking appear in an annoyingly huge amount of m/m manga, another cliche more, and that's terrible. Because it makes me think that even the people writing about lgbt topics are stuck in the past, and keep viewing lgbt relationships as something bad. That's harmful for the collective. And they definitely should take a look at other parts of the world because they are the ones in the wrong.


About bisexuality, ah, I can't even start on that. I'm sure they don't even know what it means. A supposedly "straight" guy sleeping with another guy "just because I love you, but not other guys just you". More cliches. Bisexuality is an unicorn. Either that or "bisexual people can't commit with partners of the same sex because in the end they choose the woman (man in g/g)". Like wtf dude. Being bisexual doesn't make you a sex addict. Or a cheater. Or an asshole. Cheating and being assholes are things that depend on the individual, stop freaking generalizing.

And even if you only find attractive ONE person of the same gender, THAT'S called bisexuality. To a minimum degree, or whatever, but STOP saying it's not because you're not helping to destroy the discrimination. Sort of the opposite. That's implied homophobia/biphobia too.


Thanks for your response, Anon, and sorry I wrote so much lol

The problem was that the author did not relate this to an individual character, but gay men in general. "It's great that there's still a man with respectability. It's rare to see a man who is aggressive about getting married in this society. I wonder if there are actually a quality of my partner that I actually like (this translation seems a bit off) . Love is too heavy and it's definitely a pain. Having to stay together with your chosen partner, isn't it better to look for a partner only when you feel like doing it (one again translation seems a bit off, as a partner is not a one night stand or a fuck buddy)." All of this related to the characters insecurities, and that he can't get married in his country due to the law. Then the author messes up by ending with "Well there will be no such conversation like that in a relationship between homosexual males", as this was in relation to his earlier conversation with the other MC who was enthused to be married. The author generalising like this, is making the claim that all gay men are not able to be in long term relationships or think about marriage and plan for it. The author could maybe have ended with "Well I'll never be able to have such a conversation (about wedding planning), let alone our country hasn't even made it legal yet like others have".

I agree on that, but then again, that's another overused trope in yaoi, and the fact that he/they blame it on the fact that THAT happened because they were gay (and not because his partner, who happened to be a man, was an asshole) is what makes it homophobic.

He could've said their society forces gay people to act according to heteronormal standards. That social pressure makes his life miserable and that would've been perfect and accurate regarding their situation in Asian countries. But he didn't. He blamed it on the fact of being gay. And stating it like that is awful, and a poor way to explain a situation that yes, happens in Japan because their culture is outdated in that matter, but that it is not the norm. Gay, straight or bisexual. People is just people. You commit, or you don't. You sleep around or you don't. Being gay doesn't make you fickle. By generalizing they are maintaining their own discriminatory views.

+1000
Couldn't have said it better

Agree.

Honestly what a great post. Don't have anything else to add, that you or I haven't already.

I'm gonna reply in general, but I don't think the manga itself was homophobic. But if you're talking about how the character, the MC himself, is the homophobic one, then technically kinda yes, in the way where he basically simplifies homosexual relationships as meaningless.

The author just presented a scenario where the character so happens to not believe in committed relationships, nevertheless of genders. The author did NOT, and I repeat, did NOT generalize gay men in general, just that particular character. Although his outlook may have probably rooted from past experiences, and while it's a popular trope in yaoi, it doesn't necessarily make the story homophobic. It's strictly just the character's personality and beliefs.

Though on the topic of the MC's outlook, specifically about him not blaming the society itself for being heteronormative -- isn't that still part of his characterization? It seems to me that he is just narrow-minded on the matter, or maybe even too prideful to say that he or his past partners are just not committed to relationships, hence he insists that "Relationships between two guys have no future!" or something similar. You could say that it was bad writing but I just don't think that the author intended for the story to be discriminatory, to the scale of blatant homophobia. I mean, after all, we only see one (or two if you include the 'mama'), so it's not really fair for you to generalize a character's outlook to the whole story itself.

Besides, isn't the focus of the story the progression on how the noncommittal man discovers that there's truly a meaning to relationships in general by falling in love with the other male lead and thereby forming a real long-lasting commitment? So isn't that counter-homophobic?
At least I would think so.

Sorry down vote button clicked in error. I really appreciate the long well written posts in this posting and find it very informative. I do not know myself if this is actually homophobic, it is only chapter 1 and maybe it will become a story that will develop beyond typical yaoi cliches.

It's not at all alarming that yaoi is homophobic. I may be wrong but homophobia is almost prominent in every other society besides the American society. I think you're projecting a little too much. This is YOUR perspective and interpretation of the author's work but it seems a bit much. I'm fine with homosexuality and whatnot. DO what you want but the ideal is marriage with opposite sex partners which coincides with biology and evolution. I'm pretty sure its not that deep. Author just meant that "men together have no future" maybe because they can't get married in Japan or have their own biological children; all of which is true. That said, change is definitely needed because its boring seeing the same stuff and no representation that don't fit the cliche.

There's no such thing as "ideal" marriage. Marriage is a formal contract between two people where they agree to share their life, the good and the bad things. What's wrong with that happening between people of the same sex? Just because something is viewed as "normal" and "standard" it doesn't mean it is right. Many values operating in a lot of cultures are wrong in many ways (denigrating women, abusing children) and thankfully most of developed countries things have changed.

The thought that having children is the final and decisive and more important step in our lives, is outdated. Because it's not true. Even heterosexual people choose to not have children and no one sees them as "people without a future". Marriage is one thing, and the biological ability of having children that lies on women doesn't have an actual correlation made by "nature" but by social standards that can and should change.

As there's women that don't want/can't have children. That shouldn't exclude them from the possibility of getting married. Neither should we exclude same sex couples from doing the same. In both cases there won't be children, but why one should be more valid than the other? M/W, M/M, W/W. Every possible combination is perfectly acceptable. Producing offspring it's not the end line of marriage. Maybe it was in the past, but that was heavily influenced by religious views. For some people still is, but legally in many countries (such as mine, that's not even big nor advanced in general) that doesn't happen anymore.

So yes, thinking like the MC does reflects the homophobia that exists in his environment, which is what I'm criticising in the end. That plot is overused and shows the lack of knowledge about how things have changed (for the better) in other parts of the world. It's extremely unrealistic also. Even if Japan is extremely closed minded the information it's there for everyone to see. I would assume that an out of the closet gay guy (not talking about telling others, just accepting that he is gay) at some point has tried to know if people of their collective is equally harassed all over the world. Or even heard of a fellow gay friend getting married overseas. So he should know that things can be different, that in other places is, instead he generalized saying that there's no future for same sex couples. And I'm tired of that way of phrasing it because it is not true and it does not reflect (thankfully) how things work in other places. There's a lot more to do in regard of equality for the lgbt collective but things are changing for the better.

And I wish that the autors who write about m/m relationships would try and look outside of their own biased society, or at least, that they would try to make a different approach. Picturing a gay guy (MC) as homophobic is terribly painful. He is literally hurting himself by saying all that.

I never claimed that ideal means good. Marriage itself isn't what I'm trying to point out as biological or whatnot. I'm trying to point out that on a biological/evolutionary perspective opposite sex "mating" is the only thing that makes sense. Hence why it is the standard and not only that most people are heterosexual. In this era, we really like to mislabel things that aren't normal as normal just because people think the word "normal" is offensive in the ways its used but objectively and in science, normal is used to identify what is the majority and what is standard.

Producing offspring is the biological goal, not necessarily a goal within marriage. I might be wording it wrong. But all animals and species have two goals in life which is to survive and pass on children. Humans are different but not THAT different, because it clearly partly explains why so many give birth and DON'T adopt. Of course now, not everybody want children or can have children but most can. That's like saying well some cant give birth so I guess it just isn't meant to be that women should be able to give birth. People have health problems, defects, ad whatnot; thats the exception. You keep talking about religion but religion is only part of the reason. You seem to completely cut out the biological aspect of it and only talk about the environment aspect. I'm just saying in this aspect, its understandable why some are opposed to it. I don't oppose lgbt relationships in any way and they definitely shouldn't be harassed but you also can't ask for acceptance from everybody because not everyone will agree and simply disagreeing isn't deplorable or a crime; harassment is; the most you can ask for is tolerance.

Its completely great that things are changing but it doesn't change the fact that BIOLOGICALLY every other sexuality doesnt make sense except heterosexual. You're talking about Japan, a place where lgbt marriage is not yet legalized and not only that, the manga was not really meant for international audiences. This is a pirating site where fans or other translate this, not official official translators. Not to mention, these "authors" aren't actually the best writers which is why we keep seeing the same ass cliche shit. They're using the same plot formulas. Talking about it here is great and all but won't change much; just have to wait for time to pass by and change to come along with it.

All the yes to your reply. Most coherent thing I've read today.

Not sure why you keep bringing up the legitimacy of relationships on the ability to reproduce. Many people in straight relationships, can't or choose not to have biological children, that doesn't mean their love for one another is "fruitless" to use a common manga phrase. Having children is not a "goal" of a relationship or marriage, nor a test to show if each person loves the other. The normalising that gay relationships aren't "real" is something seen in a lot of mangas, which normalises this homophobia and shows ignorance of the authors. Same sex marriage, couples who are in same sex relationships raising children, be they adopted or biologically related is common elsewhere but not in Japan. That doesn't mean that without such, gay men can't be in a relationship respected as such and validated by society, instead yaoi authors like to peddle the "straight guy plsying around " "room mates" "ugh it would be odd if two men ate dinner together" "gay men can't be in relationships, get married, be a family" nonsense. These stereotypes would be offensive and ignorant in their own country, let alone to international readers.

The point is that the writing wasn't related to one character, whose personality you describe well, or contextual to his specific country's laws and society. Instead the author or translator generalised which is why claims of homophobia are being made, ditto that it's not just this manga which has similar wordings, but it's so common to have gay characters say similar things without any respect that this is specific to themselves and their own country. Only a few mention for example that whilst same-sex marriage is not legal in Japan it is elsewhere. As to the last part, I'm not sure. In yaoi there is this idea that people who are straight fall in love with a man, and have a relationship with them, they never identify as being bisexual or gay. It sort of normalises the idea that being gay isn't an innate trait, or that people can "play" being gay or bi . The character brought up what could have been a nod the the discrimination he faces in his own country, as in not being able to be married, but instead the author generalised to say that all gay men can't get married, thus the author avoided being a smidgen political and instead used a topic which is important, as simply a plot device where the straight guy falls in love with the previously non committed and presumably in the closet (apart from being out to people in the club he goes to) gay guy, the end.

Thanks. I was struggling as how to answer to that comment. English it's not my first language so it was hard for me to say what I wanted to say without sounding repetitive. Basically, I meant the same. Even if we are talking about a single character (as there is only one chapter, we don't really know if it's just the MC that things like that) the fact that the approach is based on an homophobic view that stereotypes same sex relationships as "meaningless", remains the same. Something that is alarmingly extended in this genre, as it is the explanation of "not being gay/bi, just falling in love with a man" (which is, by the way, another homo/bi phobic statement) that many authors pull.

Exactly. It seems like such a common trope in this genre for characters to identify as straight, yet be in a relationship with the same sex. The straight guy is written as the "ordinary" one (whereas the gay character is viewed as an outsider, keeps his orientation a secret) and in sex, he is the one that usually tops, he says things like "I'm straight but you are my first and only man" and the "gay character" says things like anal with a man is no different to a woman or refers to their bits as being a pussy or vagina just to express to readers that they gay guy is the "female" whereas the "straight" guy is the one with the dick, he's the seme, he could marry a woman but instead he's with a man for love, but only that man, he's not one of those gays like the other character (ffs). It's not only homophobic, but biphobic too.

Omg... its really complicated...so these guys who you said is neither straight nor gay .. So what is it ???