hachi leaf's Topics (961)

you said it so well i agree with you

Yeah I had hopes that he would take him on dates but it be the platonic kind. I go on dates with my friends all the time and it’s just us hanging out but calling it a “date” just means we planned our outing in advance. But him trying to figure out a way to get him to like him romantically back when he’s even doubting he is even romantically interested himself is worrying. I hope he realises that he can’t make uke feel anything and to do things uke wants. If uke is more reserved, rent a room in a library where you can read comfortably or go to a comic book store or play games at home or rent movies for an indoor movie night. Those are great “dates” for introverted people. I’m still holding out hope tho. I want the best for these two idiots

It's not that I'm trying to deny that he's aromantic but I think he's actually not to begin with. I mean, if you feel possessive toward someone, especially one you're sleeping with, isn't that love already? Well, then again, since I'm not an aromantic I don't really know how it feels.

yeah that's why ive always been in doubt that he's aromantic. tho it gets complicated cause apparently a bunch of terms under the umbrella says you can still fall in love as an aromantic (which i disagree with because of many reasons). i believe he's a very specific kind of demiromantic (still under aro apparently, which again i disagree with)

im getting kind of uneasy with how this is going though. i feel kind of bad for the seme. he's walking on ice. he wants to move so he would be loved but at the same time he must consider the fact that he probably won't ever be "loved" it's kinda sad

but his end goal has always has been to make uke fall in love with him. if he was an aromantic himself or someone who just likes having friends around then it would be a different thing. that's why it's a dilemma, it won't work for the both of them if this continues. at this point, if this continues i just hope he can find someone else.

That's the problem with these stories, the author could've simply said oh i haven't had much experience with long term relationships so I haven't really felt deep love or dk how to feel deep love rather than being yeah I've tried I don't think I'm wired to feel love....they want that fairytale moment of oh you're the only one thats made me feel this is fate and it's just gross...it's the same with making characters straight but "gay for eachother" it's a spit in the face of the ace and gay communities... like sure maybe one in a million something like this could happen but when any story depicting it ends like this its just disproportionate and fetishizing...

exactly! ive had this convo with another user as well. it feels cheap when they do that so the only way this could actually end up "good" is either seme finding someone else in the end or this manga taking several mooooore chapters before it ends to actually properly build up the romance

Even if he's aromantic, it can still work out. BeiNg aromantic does not mean romantic relationships won't work if you decide to be in one. I'm aroace and my marriage is actually great. I explained it to my husband too, that being aromantic does not mean we detest love or romantic relationships, rather it means that we want to love and be in a relationship but we just don't have the emotional capacity to, which is why we think that our partner may get disappointed. We do develop affection for our partners, maybe not to the point that we can call it "head over heels in love", but it is love in its own way. We very, very rarely get jealous, we don't experienxe giddyness, we do not crave much attention or sweetness, we don't really miss our partners much even when we don't see them for a long time, and sometimes it will appear like we do not care. So when we are in a relationship, the pressure to always be self aware of our actions towards our partner so as not appear dismissive and uncaring is very high. But when there is proper communication between both parties and your partner understands, a relationship with an aromantic can actually work even better than other relationships. So, even if Fukami turns out to be aromantic, I think they'll be okay. I know he has developed a certain affection for the seme (forgot his name, sorry), and as long as the seme is okay with it, and if the author manages to portray it well, I think that would still be a great ending. I don't think that would be destructive to the seme actually, because aromantic people are mostly the most loyal partners you can find once they develop an affection for their partner.

thank you for sharing! very insightful. though again i have my own reasons but i generally dislike the aromantic umbrella being vague and enclosing multiple different terms where their definitions are very different to each other. it makes it very convoluted and complicated cause even if you classify as aromantic, your feelings about romance wouldn't really be the same as other people who are aromantic. i believe i am one, i actually do not crave for it and treasure friendships more. why would i need a lifelong partner if in the end iust wanted to be friends with them? yknow. i believe having a partner isn't necessary and that i would dedicate my life for my dogs. but again im open to the possibility that my mindset or that things might change in the future but I don't feel any need and desire to be with anyone.

since it's different for you, it's different for me, and it's also a different case for the uke here (he clearly gets jealous/possessive unlike your experience), i really prefer it if the terms were not just combined as one - reason being, it would suck for people to think they have a chance with me just because other aromantic people gave romance a go and continue to be pushy. if they separated these things, this topic really wouldn't become this complicated in the first place.

that's just my thoughts though. im happy for you and your partner and that you're living happily and secure!

and yeah i really just hope the author portrays it well in the end, which for me requires seeeeveral more chapters. cause so far the progress makes me uneasy. it doesn't seem to be in line with your experience and tbh, i hope im not being rude or sounding weird, your story as a manga definitely sits with me more than this one. this one has the seme wanting for that romance and feeling sad when he gets reminded he isnt loved like that and the uke getting jealous so i dont really think it would end up similar to your experience. anything with this progress is just waiting for more hurt tbh

Yeah but there are many types of love someone is capable of having. It’s possible the author will show him that he can accept a slightly different type of love than the one he was expecting and that everyone shows affection in different ways. I would personally put my love for my cats over any loving relationship I have with anyone else. I love my cats a tiny bit more than I love my half baby sister. And I really REALLY love her. It’s just that my ability to cherish my cats is higher than my ability to cherish another human being. I’m not aromantic or aroace or at least I don’t think so because I have fallen in love before but it’s sorta hard for me to get there. I might be closer to Demisexual because I have to find a soul I vibe with that isn’t too complicated for me to work out and then I can allow myself to feel stronger feelings for that person. I hope he is aro cause they don’t get represented enough and it would be great to see a story where love is shown slightly different from what’s broadcasted everywhere. Loving a friend (platonically) can actually be a stronger emotion than loving a partner can be sometimes. But if he isn’t aro, I think it would be a nice transition into him being Demi and never found a soul he vibed with enough until now. Demi can appear aro or aroace until they find someone they have a proper connection with. I’ve only had 3 partners in my life and before that, everyone assumed I was aro because I was never interested in relationships or relationship drama from others or anything like that. I still don’t really care much for it. I do like that the author is opening up the topic to different sexualities and bringing a spotlight to them tho. It’s great representation.

the problem i have is moreso about the umbrella term in general. it's very convoluted and makes using the label useless in a sense. as you said, there's different kinds of love and putting different perspectives of romantic love under the same umbrella (aromantic) makes it very complicated that at that point it makes using the term useless.

so yeah my problem about this is if the author is intentionally selling the uke as aromantic then they aren't actually doing a great job if they don't dive deep into it. that's why im saying the only way this could go well is either if the chapters will go on for a several more (to expound on the topic, like skip and loafer for example) OR the seme comes in to terms with uke never reciprocating his kind of love and finds someone else. but as everyone is predicting, this might end soon, and uke has already possibly shown signs of already falling in love (romantically). he also gets quite possessive and jealous as seen in the previous chapters which opposes the example someone gave above.

so yeah! as i said originally either he isn't really aro (which will make others disappointed) OR he is and the author completely butchers it by ending it in a few chapters (unless they extend it ofc). it was also acknowledged by another user here that BL manga tends to do this "fairy tale" kind of premise where they want to sell it as "i never really was interested in this or that until i met you" which could be the case here and im getting major vibes that it's like that

I'll have to leave one last tldr/clarification.

I generally disagree with the aromantic term being used as an umbrella for actual varying and different perspectives of romance for the reason that it makes using a label in the first place useless.

If uke is really "aromantic", him and seme aren't a good match since seme is very keen on the romance and gets obviously down when he realizes the uke doesn't like him romantically. This only gets solved if the chapters go on longer with proper pacing.

If uke is really sold as aromantic and the chapters end in a few then it's a really cheap render of the same "I wasn't like this until i met you" bs that other BL manga has done.

If the uke isn't aromantic, it's fine by me and I prefer it that way since as I said I don't like using the term as an umbrella anyways. It also wraps the story up faster and better than it being sold as aromantic love and then getting butchered. But for sure people here are gonna be disappointed if he isn't cause they want rep.

now this is more understandable. I was reading comments but there were a lot of terms and stuff but nobody explained like you about how aroace/aromantic people feel, act in the relatinship. Now i understand better

It feels very reductive and gives the same as you're not aro/ace you just haven't met the one yet which is so frustrating like aro/ace ppl aren't taken seriously anyway and content like this that reinforces that you just need to meet the "right person" so you can magically "turn on" your feelings and finally be a "normal" and "whole" person....like most media and the world in general is centered around the idea of romance and having a "happy family" growing up in such a world most aro/ace ppl either don't even think that's an option or are genuinely waiting to become "normal" like everyone else that maybe someday if you're just open to it it'll happen...it's just a phase or you're just a late bloomer , we can't be complete or happy beings until we find "the one" who can "fix" us..its just gross tbh....there's so many different ways to portray something like this without like diminishing aro/ace ppl as like even real? Or even play around with characters being on the spectrum but making it like straight up I'm just falling for you cuz you're the destined prince I've been waiting for is ick

It also kinda parallels how in a lot of books they'll make the uke like a virgin with no experience until they meet "the one" yet when the uke is experienced they'll make it well they've never been in "love" before so they're still "fresh" like everything is dependent on finding the one person and saving your "firsts" for them and just ick ick ick

demiromantic is also in arospec so it'll be fine either way, but i really like them together.

this tbh is also one of the reasons why im so against about several terms getting mashed together under the aromantic umbrella. it gets pretty frustrating for several people cause different people view romance differently and have different receptions of it. like say the person above say they're not really against being with a partner as an aro but as for me i dont really like having a partner. that makes it complicated cause on one hand people will think aros will give you a chance if you or they just tried and on another people will think aros wont give you a chance at all. it's really a bad idea to put the two under the same category for that reason imo. it makes using the label practically useless. this is just my take on it tho! im sure a lot of people disagree but i hope i explained my point well (im bad with words lol)

this topic really is convoluted tbh cause you see him also saying he has tried forming a bond to see and try and well... it ended sourly for both parties. in my previous comments i explained my dislike for the mishmash. my general take for this is just i dont wanna label him anything. it might end up differently from what people expect so it's best to not just do it. i brought up this topic cause a lot of people was saying "aro rep?" before and... well... i genuinely doubt it is, and if it is, im afraid it's not done so well if it's gonna end in just a few chapters.

so yeah in the end i just want them to be happy. and if this manga wanted to be deep it would need several chapters more so maybe people should expect less...

i do agree, i am aroace myself and pretty much fully at that even on the spectrum + i do not desire for a relationship like at all, but i still really love reading romance (only bl and gl though lol). i guess i'm looking more in terms of self-indulgence here because i didn't really come here nor expect to get representation ? i mean good for them if they decide to go that route, but let's see. i haven't seen demiromantic or non-traditional aroace rep either so i won't mind that.

i understand! im the same as you haha guess im just preparing myself for the chaos if ever people gets disappointed for wherever this is headed. that's also why im hesitant on labeling him anything tbh cause it makes people expect something good that would come out of the *possible* rep and if it ends up not being that or it is but isnt a remotely good rep (which is the case for most BL) after all then...

That's the point tho, we didn't come here for aroace rep cuz we know this isn't what we want irl so like why tf would we expect to see ourselves in a romance comic, which is why it's so weird to see a hamfisted additions of it in stories where all they're trying to do is "fix" being aroace out of the person yk? It's like the story along with society is telling us "it's just a phase wait till you meet the right one" just like what the person above said, they even showed his failed attempts at falling in love and having long term relationships with others and still not feeling "love" for them so you can't even really argue the author is going for a "demi" thing like we all know most bl authors don't really care much or know much about realism or reality of being lgbtq+ and just wanna write the same old stories which is fine whatever but like given that we know this story isn't trying to be nuanced about anything it's just showing being aro as a "hurdle" for the couple to go through before their happy ever after which feels gross...I just wish authors would leave us out of things tbh we anyways come here for escapism lol - like the entire plot line of him taking him on dates and shit to see if he finally feels something is literally trying to "convert" him and it just gives me the ick..

Sameee and i thought avel gonna get eaten by the sharks or he gonna out of breath

I think it was plot convinience,autor probably run out of space and said fuck it and shoved that explosion in.

Sameee, I scroll up and down to compare the moles, so glad it's not him. Though there's a part of me thinking that ml is blaming himself of MC being bullied.

Rather than his face, it was his hair. She questioned him about it, and you can see that it looks choppy, my guess is that he was already experimenting with haircutting (or probably just didn't have the money for it?) and as a little kid, he did a bad job. His mom is clearly emotionally disturbed, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just an excuse to abuse him.
But as for the bully, I also thought that they might be related somehow. Ngl, at first I nearly got a heartattack, thinking it's the ML, but thankfully he doesn't have the second mole but it's really sus, that they have one in the same spot.

hmm it could still be that the mom purposely made him have long hair to cover his face and got angry he cut it cause she'd clearly see his face! but we'll see. and yeah it's like the EXACT same spot

LMFAO this was me. literally paused and scrolled up and down multiple times

Who's shaming and screaming....

they’re referring to people in the comments

Ayi, i really found a person or two acting like reading this makes us so so so bad....sigh

had also an encounter in another manga's comments with someone like this this is why i prefer the mrm comment sections but i dont like getting jumpscared by the ads and homescreen there so!

I feel like less people should stop preaching abt shit being morally bad and maybe come to the conclusion that maybe just maybe the story and characters are just really badly written, even with all the romanticizing abuse bs aside

I was actually more disappointed this wasn't supposed to be a psychological abuse BL than the fact that it had rape and shit in it
Dan and JK also are also one note as hell and somehow we as the audience are supposed to believe these 2 feel romantically for each other when like almost all their scenes prior were sexual or abusive lmao ok sure

But ngl I enjoy it cuz I think it is extremly fun to look at trash fires like these, but if you geniunly it honestly good for you for being able to see worth in it lol

nah im the same as you it had potential at first but the way the author's selling dan falling in love with jk is so bad. every time i read an update i just prepare myself for comedy i wouldn't have mind if this continued being abusive if only the romance was actually plotted right lololol

Damn, finally another argument, but also you're so right. Both of them are so one dimensional and have basically same temperament everywhere and there's no development in either of them. Then there's added emotional burden of sexual abuse on top. How is the romance supposed to happen ayo I can't remember any series like this fr

I feel Mingwa just wanted to make a story about two people suffering. Dan is poor and has to save his grandma. Jaekyung has a shoulder injury and still yearns to stay at the top. I feel she's trying to construct a story for the two romantically. And with the pace she's taken, I feel any author would do the same. I also like the fact that Jaekyung isn't easy like most Yaoi semes. I'm just tryna be patient with how the story’s flowing. And why does it matter if a story is progressing through abuse? Is this the first time shit like this is happening? Why are people so baffled by it? And they always come to the conclusion that the author is romanticizing abuse. This is simply the reality of things where people romanticize shit all around, any adult would be smart enough to not romanticize abuse. And the little kids who aren't of age reading this are also wrong.

I also feel we should highly consider the fact that Dan and Jaekyung are not in a romantic relationship…yet. So people should not be expecting Jk to be all lovey-dovey with him. Yeah, we're expecting them to be together but comprehend the situation before you judge. Anyway, I hope we read this to the end though

And honestly, if anyone hates this story, just drop it I beg. There are a lot more manhwas to read and if you continue torturing yourself, I'll name you a fool. You're ruining the experiences of other readers. Peace.♡

It is most definitely romanticizing abuse though. One cannot tag something as 'Romance', put abuse that is not shown as being a bad thing by the story into the main couple we are supposed to root for and then claim it doesn't romanticize it at all. Now does that mean people shouldn't read it? Nah people can read whatever the hell they wanna but be media literate/mature enough to understand that this is a romantization of abuse

Also gods I love stories about two people suffering together (and either getting worse or better) but the way this story is doing it ain't it.
We don't get any insight to what Dan is thinking about the abuse JK is putting him through except of pity or worry for JK... which not only is quite unrealistic that he hasn't had a mental breakdown or at least mental monolouge about it yet but also makes him a hella boring character. The reason the abuse moving the plot forward doesn't work is because it tries to make it seem cute and hot (as in Dan catches feelings for JK even though their romantic interactions are almost non-existant in a manhwa wanting to have a romance between them) rather than a serious topic or even horrifying to the reader as you see in works such as KS or Warehouse for example

The reason why I critizise Jinx so much is quite simply because it really is worse than the average BL, yet it is immensly popular even though there is a million better BLs both in characters and story that would never get this type of attention.
I geniunly think most people are only still in on it for the smut or because it's so bad it's good and has us hooked like a low budget soap opera

I think my comment got deleted.

I said a lot of things. I'm kinda tired so I can't rewrite that. But I talked a lot about Dan’s personality and why he would develop such feelings.

Lack of insight on both character's behalf (monologues) frustrates me so bad like bro "what are your thoughts on this?" Please

I really don't know why my comment isn't posting

Hey, I decided to reply now that I'm free.

On L3hzin ( the official site), there was no romance tag included but it's safe to say this is bad romance. I actually don't care what people do, read whatever and kill yourself because of it, I actually dgaf. It's just foolish to read something you despise so much, complaining about it every day considering it's just fiction. Foolishness.

I also don't think the author wants to romanticize abuse at all. Look at the situations of these characters. Kim Dan having no one by his side apart from his grandma, grew up with no knowledge of self-respect, no friends, shown no kindness from the world, bullied, beaten, and duped, he has been at the lowest of the low both physically and emotionally, his life has been threatened, having to work tons of jobs for his grandma, received no rest, a pushover throughout his life, no experience in sexual or romantic activities, an inexperienced virgin. And suddenly Jakeyung shows up and clears every single misery like it was nothing leaving Dan to choose what is obviously better for him.

Jaekyung clears Dan’s debt, saves Dan from being gang raped, lets him live in his home when he allows no one and Dan is aware of that, food on the table, visits grandma in the hospital when Dan was unable to due to tiredness, makes granny happy, shared an unexpected kiss which completely shocked Dan, he's insanely attractive. And considering that Dan was aesthetically attracted to Jakeyung before the abuse is already shaming your opinion. (you can read up on it). And then finally proceeds to call Dan “one of his own”

Why wouldn't Dan fall for this shithead despite all the abuse? Yes, Dan acknowledges the abuse, I think in chap 36-38, Dan said, “Yes I admit Mr. Joo can be rough but I've been handling it well and it's not like it's that bad” Dan knows he's not being treated well but he's completely responsible for JK. And also think about Jk too, having that kind of jumpscare about the article. I have many friends who are athletes and I will tell you that Jk reacted perfectly when scared or stressed. I'm not saying it's right but be in his shoes and comprehend the situation. (I'm talking about the time he found out about the article and treated dan wrongly).

Dan is in a situation where he feels entitled and indebted to Jk so he ignores all the terrible things because he feels Jk has done a lot for him so why should he complain . Very realistic. I've seen so many situations like this where their partner doesn't treat them right but they still stay in hopes that they could change them or because they're far too deep in love. I've also read many articles of people telling their experiences of how it took them a while to get over their partner who doesn't treat them right, it's called leaving a toxic relationship. Very realistic.

There was a time when Jk told Dan to think of himself first before others, this just proves that he can't even have a mental breakdown because he's doing all these for his grandma, as long as his grandma is okay, he's okay too. So why should he have a breakdown? You should remember that not everyone is the same.

Mingwa’s pace is flowing through and I feel any professional author would have gone with this pace based on their personalities. Mingwa's pacing is very unique and different from those rushed unrealistic developments. And the way each character reacts to situations is just perfect if you understand the personalities of these two.

Mingwa is simply merging two imperfect and suffering characters, molding them to perhaps form a bond afterward. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic here.

Finally it posted

I forgot to add the part where he has been sexualky harassed at the hospital.

I apologize if this is long but please you have to read it thanks

Ok fair point. Still, pretty sure Mingwa herself claimed Dan and JK are gonna be in a romantic relationship so...

And look maybe Mingwa didn't try to romanticize abuse but she's still doing it no matter if she's aware about it or not, I can already see it coming that Dan will forgive JK for all of it. And just because JK is the lesser bad (and hot) still doesn't deter from the fact that he's an absolute pos abuser.

I never said it is unrealistic for Dan to fall for him in such situation, since yes stuff like this happens in toxic relationships. What I think is unrealistic is that it tries to cater that to reader as them having geniune romantic chemistry which they really do not

I meant having a mental breakdwon as an example of building interest, because having no insight in Dan makes him an awfully boring character. All his thoughts are surface level and we never get to know what he is thinking beyond "Poor JK :(" or "I love granny so I'm fine :)", yeah sure not everyone reacts the same but Dan would at least have a very huge hit in self worth or any spiraling thoughts because of JK yet we don't ever see any of his thoughts about it beyond surface level.

My problem with the story isn't the pace but rather how it presents itself and it's boring characters.
There is no real intrigue to see these 2 characters suffer and then form a bond afterwards. There is geniunly more intrigue to see how these 2 carboard cutouts are going to get written into your standard forgive the abuser yaoi.

Also, this is quite opinionated but so is your idea of the story, as I said if you find worth in it knock yourself out. I just absolutely love writing critiques of stories that I don't deem as good (well and good ones too actually)

Let's just read to the end and see how things turn out pal

Ok uh I just wanted to mention I been reading all your comments and it's so fun to read such deep insight and opinions on this story other than the braindead arguments and insults people have been throwing in the comments always.
Thanks you two (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Me too! I saw yours! You're so real for this

I'm glad (▰˘◡˘▰)