I would like to respectfully disagree. Only the readers know that he has feelings for someone shitty. All jaekyung knows is that his employee bought him a gift for a birthday, and then he was cruel and violent for NO DAMN REASON. Its not like dan had proposed any changes to their relationship, or confessed his feelings or anything.
In the author's other manhwa, BJ Alex, the mc did get and confess feelings where the ML was not interested. Though the ML's behaviour also wasn't good there, he wasn't violent, and he had reason to cut off MC because of the MC's feelings (It has been a while since I read it, so I may be remembering some details wrong). In that one you can say they both could share some blame for things going sideways.
In this manhwa, it is completely, totally, 100% jaekyung's behaviour that is the source of all the problems. The MC has done nothing wrong here. Its not like Jaekyung had solid proof of dan's feelings, or that dan's present was actually causing any issues with the treatment. He is just a shitty piece of work, and I am rooting for Dan to get away and to never come back.
Yes, many people are blaming Dan. But some are trolls and haters trying to get attention.
I am with you. However, I am not with your opinion on Jaekyung. He has bad behaviors and toxic but he isn't as bad as other semes from toxic stories.
Jaekyung knows more than that and while not justify his actions, he does have a reason.
First, he is already injured.
Second, he has a headache via having a hangover.
Third, he was bombarded by unwanted expensive gifts that is invading his space.
Fourth, he is confused about last night.
Fifth, nothing is helping him get better.
Sixth, he learns the reason Dan has been going out, sleeping when he should be working, and rubbing blood on him without noticing. It was for him. He has been worried and he learns all that was for him. It is probably something that has never happened to him. Someone so close to do something so genuinely.
He covered his emotions but anger and lashing out.
seventh he is a man-child and doesn't know how to handle that.
Dan needs to teach him but he needs to learn other ways when angry of communicating like the ones that attack you for noticing something.
Jaekyung does not say what he means sometimes and hides most of his emotions. He is a tsundere.
All kinds of emotions pop-up that he does not know how to deal with it while feeling like crap and he lashed out. It is what he knows but it is bad behavior that he needs to change.
While Jaekyung causes some problems he does not take the full 100%. Dan does take some of that for not speaking up and other factors.
In your rooting.. It is a waste of time .. They are endgame and as you are against people blaming Dan for not seeing the story, you are not seeing the real JK. It could be because she has made it that way on purpose.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with this comment. Dan is a clear case of being a victim and making good with this situation and people are saying “ he deserves it”. I’m sorry, but a victim of violent verbal, physical and mental abuse never deserves getting disrespected like that. as someone who has heard irl people talk about how they were in A similar situation to dan, I can hope these readers never get into an abusive relationship.
I agree with what you say about jaekyung being a man-child who doesn't know how to deal with his emotions. But that doesn't make it okay for him to berate and be so cruel to Dan. That is the point. He is an adult. It is not justified for a grown-ass man like jaekyung to be so verbally, and borderline physically abusive (he hasn't hit dan yet, but he smashed his present, and is very rough and hurtful during the r18 scenes, even when asked to stop).
I know they are endgame. This is their story. I am still allowed to have an opinion on how I would rather prefer it to end, while the story isn't complete yet. That is the privilege of a reader. I am against people placing blame for this event on Dan, when clearly even the author intends to show that jaekyung is a cruel and pitiless man. People taking this chapter and concluding that Dan is at fault and jaekyung is just the way he is is wrong, because people need to realise that the author is not condoning jaekyung's actions either.
The author is literally making it painfully obvious that Jaekyung is a bad person, and that Dan has fallen for the wrong guy, and that with this event, Dan will remove his rose-tinted glasses.
"Jaekyung knows more than that and while not justify his actions, he does have a reason."
vs "It is not justified for a grown-ass man like jaekyung to be so verbally, "
Bad behavior is not justified. I was clear his reasons were not justifiable. how you worded that makes it seem I was justifying him. I was not.
We can forgive the person if they change for the better. This is where I bring up the example of "Amazing Grace". ""Amazing Grace" lyrics are based on John Newton's experience of receiving God's grace and mercy, despite the terrible things he had done."
John was an "English slave trader who became an Anglican minister, a hymn writer, and later a noted abolitionist, best known for his hymn “Amazing Grace.” His transformation from a faithless seaman to a man of deep faith is echoed in his work."
His actions as the slave trader is never justifiable. However, he changed, and he is justifiable. Not the actions.
While Jaekyung is an adult, he may not know of other ways. He has to be taught new ways. So you agree with me that he does not know how to deal with his emotions. He has to learn and he may need guidance due to these seem to be deep-rooted behavior. These patterns may be challenging for someone on their own. While I don't know his story, people who are only taught one way will not know other ways unless they focus on personal growth. Jaekyung simply did not have a need but he will. He will find new ways of interacting with others.
If you go back Jaekyung ask if he had sex before. Then said there is no need to go easy on Dan. The Doctor even said something about his style. Dan had an hour to confess he was a virgin or to tell him to go slow. Dan didn't.
Dan did say stop but right after he is giving Jaekyung the okay.
Why? ---> I am still allowed to have an opinion on how I would rather prefer it to end, while the story isn't complete yet.
"when clearly even the author intends to show that jaekyung is a cruel and pitiless man." Yes, she intends writing to look bad but that is only at face value. Look deeper.
Most of his personality, NOT BEHAVIOR is a facade. He also doesn't say what he is meaning to say. He hides his real feelings.
To be fair, Dan should have waited. Dan is not at fault since Jaekyung accidentally took the cup of soju. Jaekyung is under a lot of stress and pain. He is hangover. It is not really his fault either. His bad behavior is his fault.
"The author is literally making it painfully obvious that Jaekyung is a bad person, and that Dan has fallen for the wrong guy, and that with this event, Dan will remove his rose-tinted glasses"
This is not what she is doing with all the hints.
Now if you respond to me again, would you please make sure it fits what I actually said? ... I mean your reply it is like you think I am telling you, the you can not have an opinion. Like What? And a few things did not fit. This was not about your opinion. This was about the story.
wow, you said a lot of words without making any sense. You are reading into and trying to justify his horrible character.
'Most of his personality, NOT BEHAVIOR is a facade. He also doesn't say what he is meaning to say. He hides his real feelings.' where are you getting this from? He doesn't hide shit, he is very rude and obnoxious, and those ARE his real feelings. He especially doesn't have any tender feelings he is covering up.
I know he is hot to look at, but he has had no redemption, he has had no tender moments of introspection and affection, no change of heart, so stop trying to justify his behaviour without any solid ground. You can quote all other works to me (comparing him to a slave trader in another story? Seriously?), but his actions have shown no remorse or change, so stop trying to read into his character before he's even had any character development. Please read the latest chapter before you say anything.
"wow, you said a lot of words without making any sense."
TROLLING TRICK!
". You are reading into and trying to justify his horrible character."
FALSE!!!!!
I am not justify anything. I am not reading into anything that either.
"'Most of his personality, NOT BEHAVIOR is a facade. He also doesn't say what he is meaning to say. He hides his real feelings.' where are you getting this from?"
- From understanding the story. She provides many clues. Hessung even knows he hides his feelings. You are falling for the face value. Look deeper. All your rebuttal did was tell me you are reading it with biases and not reading the actual story.
You are being rude and obnoxious.
Is he hot? How is that a counter point? He has redemption but I don't know if your comments do.
" he has had no tender moments of introspection and affection,"
FALSE
" no change of heart,"
FALSE
" so stop trying to justify his behaviour without any solid ground."
I am not justifying anything! Thanks for the lie! but you are now justifying your false opinion by lying and attacking me. I condemned his bad behavior. What are you on?? GROW UP. What I was talking about has solid ground.
"You can quote all other works to me (comparing him to a slave trader in another story? Seriously?),"
I did not compare him to a slave trader. You are showing you don't comprehend English just because you don't want to admit you are wrong.
"but his actions have shown no remorse or change,"
Where is this about his actions? I am literally against them.... --> "He has bad behaviors and is toxic but he isn't as bad as other semes from toxic stories. Jaekyung knows more than that and while not justify his actions, he does have a reason."
It is funny you are saying the opposite of what I said in comments about me. GASLIGHTING!!!!
"so stop trying to read into his character before he's even had any character development."
I am not reading into anything. She is giving hints. You and he are easy to read when you know how to read people.
"Please read the latest chapter before you say anything."
I read it twice and I don't think it does a damn thing for your throwing a child-like tantrum. You are lying about what I said and my actions. That is a red flag. You are imposing a position on me. That is a red flag.
Your insecurities are showing. You know you're wrong and instead of being an adult and accepting it, you impose, gaslight, and lie. How immature.
Nothing justifies your actions here. I was talking about the story and you focused on attacking me with BS
What ad hominem says...
Ad hominem: in other words, a personal attack, attacking the person instead of attacking the issue. an example of Ad hominem would be, "poisoning the well" which is the direct attack on the trustworthiness of the person making a statement instead of addressing the statement.
Ad hominem refers to attacking the person making the argument rather than addressing the argument itself."
They must not have a very good argument with the imposing and ad hominems.
"When someone lies about you to others, it may be because they are insecure, jealous, or resentful of you. They may want to damage your image or gain an advantage over you. They may also have a distorted perception of reality or a personality disorder that makes them lie compulsively"
When someone's imposing something upon you, they're trying to remove your choice (and overstepping your boundaries). "Interrupt, influence, or disturb, burden, intimidate, interject, or coerce, are words that came to mind"
You are intimated and trying to take control with BS and gaslighting.
If this is how you handle being wrong, seek professional help. Why could you have a conversation with me? Why can't you accept you are wrong or have a conversation to understand? I am being factual.
Your beginning statement is gaslighting and trying to discredit me. It is a lame trolling tactic. Figures you would cower and hide yourself.
Thank you for sharing you know you are wrong and lost.
Stop the BS. Open your eyes.
i see no point in arguing further. You clearly aren't getting my point at all, and aren't able to get your point across without essays. And you aren't reading the same story all the other readers are.
At the beginning I was all on the bandwagon of 'Winter is shit, trauma doesn't justify his actions, leave his ass'. But the later chapters after she left are SOO GOOOD. THIS is how redemption should be done. Its slow burning, but its visible how much he regrets. And there are setbacks, neither of them go 'oh, i see where i was wrong now, and now on everything will be smooth sailing'. They both (but winter mostly, of course) really feel the weight of each other's misery and their own faults. Really doing justice to the title 'what it means to be you'.
I'm at chapter 122, and man... this is the most organic relationship I now. There are disagreements, grudges, differences in temperaments. But there is also banter, teasing, concern, and most of all, thorough loyalty and (almost) honesty at this point. It isn't just one or two interactions just showing a generic couple in a happily ever after (like most mangas and manhwas), they seriously think about each other, feel for each other, get angry, cajole, talk, show affection, anger and everything in between. To think that it could have been like this from the beginning if winter was a bit more open and willing to change at the beginning of the marriage, instead of hiding himself (due to his past of course). But this is one of the few where his redemption feels earned to me.
Bonus, I love how she didn't go back to him just wishy washy or just completely avoidant and oblivious of his actions of affection. She was reserved but open to communication, because she had found some peace and happiness in the time apart. It isn't being so stupidly in love that you easily forgive a terrible ML, but it also isn't unnecessarily torturous where she keeps avoiding over and over without any cause. She is really depicted well as a good leader.
Your words resonate so much with me. I hated winters guts and he will never be one of my favorite characters but i was able to forgive him. I literally could not have put it in better words tha you.
Thank you! I had been looking for a manhwa that shows people being people and relationships being a lot of work but also being a lot of fun, with a lot of affection in them. And how they get there and stay there is really organic too. I think this is one of there rare ones which pulls it off really well, and I love it for that.
Why does no one ever ask the basic questions or apply the minimum IQ of an adult in these romance manhwas and mangas? Almost ALL of them have an MC so oblivious its surprising they don't keep running into walls with their eyes wide open. Exactly how far deep are both their heads buried in the sands? In fact, I can't blame the ML here, at least he's making regular attempts. The frigging MC...
But so far, chaeri is the hottest in the story. I mean, WOW. Doya is second, second ML is third (I really want him to end up with the werewolf childhood friend, their bickering is cute and comfortable, and he's far less sus with her), and lastly the MC.
I'm reliving the horror that is the ML. Honestly, If it wasn't for Kyle's mother, they would've ended up happy together. But Matthias is scum of the earth. Very well written, attractive scum. Honestly, towards the end I got a bit frustrated with Layla because
1. she easily played into his hands each damn time.
2. Uncle bill died when escaping with her to leave the duke behind, but then she goes right back.
The beauty of the story is that all of these horrific things play out with some great prose and real depth of character.
People being down bad for murderous psychos is nothing new.
But I think people are forgetting that this guy is a liar. He gave the order for hyuon to be thrown off the cliff then blatantly lied about it. I am 100% CERTAIN that he didn't let taehyuk be away, he was simply unable to find him due to hyuon's magic, which the deer said he was unconsciously using to keep humans and beasts away from their mountain. He also mentioned he won't be able to use this magic when making the bead, which is EXACTLY when the emperor found him.
The emperor also knows that taehyuk is too kind hearted to simply let him die. Everything he does (remember, threatening suicide and self-harm is a known tactic of abusive people to keep the victims with them) is to keep taehyuk under his thumb. Nobody would want a guy like the emperor in real life (unless you want all your friends, loved ones, helpers and confidants to die a brutal death).
we're back in time. Where she is keeping secrets from her husband and planning to divorce him, in spite of him asking repeatedly for her to be honest with him, and treat him as a spouse. When he was sick she wouldn't tell him of the agreement shit coz he'd be angry and throw her out. And now that he's treated, she won't say anything about infertility and its STILL coz she thinks he'll be angry and throw her out.
Are we in a loop? The author is recycling all the plot points to death
Its surprising how she is freaking out about a woman texting mr fox, but she sees nothing wrong with getting dinners with seonu who actually confessed his feelings to her before. Also, both jobs she had with seonu, she went to lengths to hide the fact from gumiho rather than being upfront, but there would be pitchforks in the chat if the ML behaved with another girl the way she is behaving with seonu.