Tonikaku's Topics (23)

if you read ch. 17 then itd make sense but if you’re waiting for officials, then next week itll make sense for you lol not a writing flaw

I read the fan translation. He couldn't cry is one thing. But missing his parents is another. One can miss someone without crying, especially when they are not there. You miss their absence, you adjust to it, you think about them. If your parents die, you might not cry for some phychological reason but you would definitely show some other indication of grief or missing. True not everyone grieves the same way but reader hardly gets to see anyway. Even when the vampire is explaining his family to the loan shark, he still does it so cheerfully. It definitely feels like something is amiss. This boy acts like everything is completely hunky dory and nothing has changed.

The point of chapter 17 especially Changdeok’s words was reassuring Jongwoo that there’s different ways to grieve, like you pointed out. He also let out the tears after hearing those words because they’re something he needed to hear in regards to how he felt towards his parents’ death. He admitted he was sad but that he just didn’t cry. People react differently when sharing vulnerable sides like smiling to brush things off yknow? Not everyone is gonna be crying or facially expressing their grief. I’m sure he misses his parents and is completely devasted inside; he wouldn’t have visited them at sea if he didn’t. Or even had their pic as his profile pic.

You miss my point. You assume that he misses his parents, we don't actually get to see it anywhere. That's not how it works when you tell a story. Show don't tell. One might not cry or show facial expressions of grief but one would still think about them, feel their absence in some way or the other. I mean your parents dying is a BIH event in one's life, especially when one is a still a minor. It would literally take 2 panels to show it too. It was as simple as the vampire cooking something for changdeok, followed by one panel showing how he used to watch his parents cook the same dish. And then back to his face, even a close up of his sombre eye would have sufficed. No crying, no overt emotion. He even mentions that he learnt from watching at his parents restaurant. So there's already a context set up. I mean cmon, he lived with them for 18-19 years and the reader isn't shown a single panel of missing or him thinking about them? When it's been a week since they died? You may not show any grief but you still grieve in your head. There is such a huge change in his life but the reader doesn't feel it at all. The reader is shown absolutely nothing that might indicate that he feels their absence especially because he is a vampire, different from others, his parents were the only ones who knew what he was. That's a big deal.

The reason why it feels weird to the reader is completely natural and instinctive. Any reader would ask this question, especially when other manhwas in the genre where the event of main character's parents dying defines his entire life and his tragic backstory (so many orphans in Bl manhwa genre hehe). It feels weird because it is weird.

the story isn’t about grief and angst. that’s it and that’s all, it really isn’t this deep.

It doesn't have to be about grief to show a well rounded version of the characters. Just like how a character being a good son doesn't make the story about parent child relationship, it's still a BL. its like some of y'all are allergic to critical thinking lol.

critical thinking isn’t necessary when you have common sense. obviously, the death of his parents is not important. it’s sole purpose is to force him to live with mc. it wasn’t introduced to be dwelled on. the main plot is vampire ml with momentarily unrequited love for mc. again, that’s it and that’s all. you’re chasing structure where there’s nothing to anchor it. some things are genuinely only surface level deep. this isn’t a writing flaw, just doesn’t fit your standards.

Lol what are you even taking about? Of course the death of his parents is important, it's the 'inciting incident' that starts the whole damn story. An inciting incident is a story means an event that changes the status quo and gets the ball rolling. The loan shark dude only finds the vampire sitting on the curb because he is a helpless orphan now, and that was the day he brought his parents' ashes home. And the whole issue of his parents passing is very much relevant to the vampire because HE TALKS ABOUT IT, WHERE HE ISMT ABLE TO CRY AND FELT.LIKE A MONSTER BECAUSE OF IT!

Chasing the story with nothing to anchor it??! Bwahahaha, just typing words doesn't mean they make any sense. This definitely is a flaw BECAUSE THE CONTEXT WAS ALREADY SET UP. The vampire missing his dead parents that changed his life trajectory is not supposed to be deep, just logical, natural and intuitive.

Like your comment so bwahahaha, like seriously? You are gonna sleep such blatant scenes under the carpet just so you can type an argument online?? Do people here even know how stories are written???

you’re contradicting yourself and disregarding everything i said. no matter how much of a professional you think you are in analyzing, you must read to comprehend and not respond. i never said it wasn’t relevant to the vampire. i said it wasn’t important to the plot outside forcing him to live with mc. even adding some emotional baggage. you reiterated that by saying it’s a inciting incident. again, comprehension is key. i never said you’re chasing the story. i said you’re chasing STRUCTURE. you want there to be depth emotional wise and there clearly isn’t. specifically because that’s not the focus. all your “could’ve” and “should’ve”s don’t matter in eyes of the obvious. it’s just a bl. you say it’s not supposed to be deep, yet complain about how he isn’t in shambles or “that concerned” about his parents death. then in the same sentence, you talk about logicality. would you prefer the author force it in our faces or give the story time to progress. mind you, you’re coming to all these conclusions with a week of storytelling. i could be wrong too and the author may very well dive into the weight of his parents death, but as of right now that’s not the agenda. how strange is it to call someone’s writing flawed because you’re reading with your mind somewhere else. assuming you’re an adult, you’re way too invested in this. don’t like the brand of tea? don’t buy it rather than senselessly criticizing the business.

That's a lot of words for saying nothing.

Showing the character thinking about his recently dead parents doesn't make the story about grief or angst. You said that the parents dying wasn't important. But it very much is, both to the sorry and structure. The vampire thinks of the impact his parents' death caused so obviously it's important to see how the vampire feels about it. Like I said in one of the comments above, it would literally take two extra panels to show it and the reader won't feel swayed from the BL plot or his relationship with the ML. How is it forcing the issue. If the author uad shown those two panels, it would have made the vampire's character and situation even more believable and authentic. I still don't understand how am I contradicting myself when I say missing his dead parents is natural and instinctive, lol. Sure the story isn't finished yet, but there is a relevant place and time in the narrative to show emotional beats. And this place, where his parents have JUST died, because of which his life CHANGED DRASTICALLY is definitely a relevant place to show those emotions. If my mind weren't focused on the story, I wouldn't even have thought of my arguments. I find your replies very baffling. i get that a lot of readers get offended when you criticise something they like. But try to keep a level head and look at things objectively. It's not that difficult.

you’re right i’m wrong and offended

I mean, just bc he was an athlete does not mean he will retain the same physique just bc hes a coach. It makes sense that he wouodnt since he suffered a severe injury and isn't an athlete anymore. Hes not out of shape but hes also not at peak condition anymore. I'm not sure what you were expecting. He has no reason to maintain peak performance anymore. I think he looks good and its great that he still wants to be involved with a sport he loves even though he lost the ability to participate at such a young age.

That's just plain wrong. Athletes who train their bodies since childhood don't just lose it that quickly, even if they don't play for a while. Also, have you seen pro football team physical coaches? They have to maintain good physique as well to be able to do their job well. Also, the uke here was a defender. If you have seen actual pro football, defenders are usually taller and bulkier because of their game position. Defenders are taller and bulkier than strikers, the seme is a striker and yet is taller and bulkier than the uke. This is not believable characterisation. Also, as if there aren't other BL manhwas where ukes are flanderized to suit fan service and not because of the need of the story itself. This manhwa's aesthetics are no different. The only difference between my point and your counterpoint is you simply want to excuse the fanservice, and I don't.

I agree with your point but we do have to factor in how our boy had an injury which literally made him immobile and not being able to move properly quickly takes away muscle mass ya know. just a month on the hospital will change you. And for an Injuriy like our boy i bet it took months upon months to heal and another months upon months on physical Therapy and only after that can he doo mild cardio and work out to build up his stamina again, change his diet, and only after that can he properly work on hus muscles again. Although abs are easier to gain for men because of their low fat percentage, it is in fact the hardest muscle to build over all, so bro could be really fit and not have abs or only show lines if he huffs and puffs.

It is definitely fanservice as well ....Just like Seme is somehow able to have really defined abs any time of the day, which is also unrealistic. And yes Defenders then to be bigger but doesn't mean thats the set body of a defender, if a person performs well enough doe it preferable if the defender is bigger person its still a variable. And yes Ukes tend to be too much like twings and such but in this case i think this Uke is one of the more okay cases, hes skin is definitely ghostly i have to admit.

Nope. This case is the same as the rest. Yes the rare defenders are not as tall but exception isn't the rule. If it were an exception, the writer would typically justify it in her writing but there no talk of that in this manhwa. I can't just assume something because it helps me with the guilty of justifying the fan service.

The uke's body is toned at best and has no visible muscles. Even the physical coaches' bodies are muscley in real life, this is international sports, it's hella competitive and extremely high stakes. You gotta be strong to treat strong bodies. Plus optics.
And this isn't the only manhwa where where I have seen seme and uke in the same game but highly different musculature (blaze out, melting point, both smaller petite uke, big muscley seme and they are baseball and ice hockey players where the players need to have the buffiest bodies, just a nature of the sport).

Similarly, this manhwa is also typical plain fanservice AND twinkification because I am one hundred percent sure (and I bet you can't deny it either) is if it were the seme who were the defender and if it were him that had the accident, he would STILL have the eight pack abs and above six feet tall anyway.

That quickly??? Bro did you see that scar? I've known people who get badly hurt and are bedridden and lose plenty of muscle bc they can't continue their regular routines. I'm not sure how you expect someone to maintain a body at peak condition when they were probably healing for months on end. And like I said, there isn't really a reason for him to be at a gym or practice especially if he had to work a job and go to school to be a coach. It is believable just not to your unrealistic standards.

OP needs to realize that you can lose muscle quickly. Just look it up. There's plenty of examples. Also, the bottom isn't fat or so-called twinkified. Hes not even that feminine. He just lost a little muscle and isn't the same height as the top (i forgot their names lol)

The defined abs is definitely fanservice lol but thats in almost any romance. Whether it's bl or hetero, etc

You are ignoring all the rest of the sports manhwas where ukes are deliberately drawn smaller and daintier than the seme where they both are playing the same sport. It's NOT a coincidence. And you are worng about the physical coaches. Even if the uke here quit football, he became a physical coach in the field of international professional football, who need to have good physiques themselves. Look them up, they boast of quite the musculature themselves. If he became a physical coach, it's obvious that he didn't sit on his ass or was bedridden all that time. This isn't your neighborhood football, this is pro football, high stakes and extremely competitive. Also, it's pretty obvious if the positions were flipped, if the seme were the one who were in an accident, the artists would have still drawn them to have six or eight pack abs. Like let's not be delusional about the unspoken rules of fanservice in bl category. Whether it be bl or hetero doesn't cancel the toxicity of fanservice body shapes and portrayals, it's pretty clear to see that most bl creators assign feminine characteristics of their their ukes after the females characters in misogynistic media. The nuances are pretty much nil except for a select few works. Also look up the defenders' heights in international pro football, like it's just not believable that all of these things can just be excused. He is shorter, has no visible muscle mass, even though he is a physical coach, if not a player anymore. But okay, it you want to ignore all.of that, go for it. The creators don't care because the majority of the audiences don't care.

Omg, you're really butt hurt about feminine men. If you want ultra masculine men go read straight romance.. and they can be excused. At the end of the day its not your choice how a writer or artist depicts their characters. So you can bitch about fanservice all you want but what you want would also be fanservice. Having a constant six pack showing is far from realistic. The majority of the audience doesn't care bc it's NOT something TO care about.

Also, how do you know the artist would do what you say? About the positions being flipped... you're just stating what-ifs. Seriously, being upset this upset bc of someone's body is so weird. You just sound like you dislike any feminine traits in men... you're talking about toxicity but youre being toxic yourself with those ideals. Also, do you have any gay friends at all? Bc I have quite a few (im also gay) and many of them are feminine... an author making ome of their male characters feminine does not equal to copying female characteristics from "misogynistic media" Be so fr

Lol if you didn't really CARE about such portrayals, you would not be here arguing with me. You would have left after speaking your mind once. But you are here repeating yourself so you do care about the issue, it's the hidden insecurity and guilt speaking.

First of all, just because I point out obvious flaws in a piece of work (read misogynistic work) doesn't entitle you to tell me to read something else. Because like, who are you to tell me that? Lol. I don't have to conform to your biases to be able to enjoy something critically. It is absolutely my choice as to what I want to read, I am the consumer and this media that is targeted at me since I am interested in this genre. The consumers should ideally dictate what they want to consume, but the capitalist machinery gives you an illusions of choice and you have to pick one, sorry to be such a downer but it isn't such a free will that you think it is. It is because of uncritical and complacent readers like you because of whom the rest of the readers have to deal with misogynistic and cookie cutter copy paste, unoriginal and unrealistic writing. And i think misogynistic writing sold to impressionable readers as sex positive writing, or feeding the same meaningless and misogynistic tropes in the name of queer content is definitely something to care about. YOU don't care about it because you like this type of tropey writing (maybe you do t wanna use your brains so much idk) and you like this type of problematic portrayals. If you think the role flipping situation I talked about is a what -if situation, you are simply deluding yourself. You know in your heart I am right about this but you simply don't want to give me a corner because you don't wanna lose the argument as it will hurt your ego. Like it couldn't be clearer. I have lots of gay friends and yes, SOME of them like to adopt the feminine side but that's different from the case in bl manhwas. There are ALL types of body types and dispositions even among gay men, most of them aren't buff or twinky, they have average builds, they go to gym and keep themselves healthy. Just like the rest of us. That's all. BUT in bl manhwa genre, Majority, yes majority of them, are not only drawn in a feminine manner but also written with misogynistic characteristics attributed to women. They are often written to be fickle or extremely reactive, or easily swayed or non-self-composed, who unravel at the smallest threat even if they are the vice president (or something) of a company, like in Paid by fujoking or an elite lawyer like in swapping by Chaepali or roses and champagne and there are so many more examples). Writers can make them them the king of the world but still write them with these type of characteristics that are often seen in misogynistic pieces. It goes much deeper han what you think but you don't wanna see it because otherwise it will make your options very limited. Men, gay or not, don't have the same issues as women, there are nuances but very few writers care. In fact it's easy to tell that most of these writers have never met with a gay man, much less gotten to know their sides, that's how asspull their characterization and plotting are. Don't even think one thing isn't anything to do with the other. Just replacing one archetype with another and calling it 'queer content' is an ignorant and dangerous thing to do.

I think this clear from your responses that you want to sidestep my arguments because it makes it easier for you to enjoy the fanservice, you want to be in denial and I don't want to repeat myself. If you want to have the last word, go for it. In my eyes, you have already lost the argument. So goodluck.

Holy shit, I am not reading all that. You've clearly lost your marbles

Not surprised, figured you would give an immature reply. Your type are all the same lol

Dang bro what when down here bro.

"your type". Like we actually know each other. It's not my fault you lost it over a less muscular bottom lmao

You really are immature. Ah i shouldn't have replied to your meaningless babble. That's on me. Anyway. I hope you grow up. Take care now little person.

soccer players w four packs arent realistic at all... if u want buff ass ukes when they play golf then go on ig

Lol

damn this is so stupid, a quick image search of soccer defenders on google and 98% of images of body types looks exactly the same as the uke.
Soccer trains a different sets of muscle, which is mostly from the lower body. Getting an abs is absolutely far and NOT the actual goal.
The seme’s body is far weirder here, having a higher body fat percentage over average soccer players. But of course you ignored all that to conveniently twist them into ur narrative. Seeing as all your references of body types are from different sports, not soccer ur “main” argument and that seemingly they are…… fictional characters. Considering that ur arguing for an social issue and ur argument being “twinkification is inherently misogynistic.” Following ur logic all soccer players are misogynist because they are all “twinks.”

Hell this is even worse, u actually want “portrayal” but you want buffed up muscly men. That’s not soccer, thats just porn. Please touch grass and look at actual soccer players and then howl for their media representation

Lol. Are you high? They have eight packs. It's an intense sport. Look them up again. It's like people don't know what footballers' bodies looks like.

No dude. Soccer players's strength comes from their core and legs, they need to train it all. Are you fucking with me right now? Lol. Being fictional doesn't mean they would be drawn so far from realistic images, they won't even look believable. The uke here has at most times body and visible muscle mass. The more convincing and image or story or characterisation is, the more impactful and sincere it is. Seriously people on this site don't even know basic media perception. No dude. I mean bl ukes are typically drawn as twinky. Soccer players have very hard bodies, eight packs. your comment is bwahahaha. For real I am laughing my ass off. Sorry but can't take you seriously when you don't even know how to use Google search.

*at most toned body

Nah you are definitely fucking with me. Either that or you have bad eyesight. Anyway you have an account where I can send you images? Because you sound high af right now.

Ah so you could have just told me you only want to see whatever you want to see regardless of what I am trying to say. I don't WANT buff muscley men. I want less disparity between the uke and the seme because most times, tropey and insincere, and yeah, even misogynistic. Projection much? Lol

Anyway I checked out your bio, and woah, I think you aren't really the right person to argue about this, talk about hypocrisy lol. I will take a raincheck from this wasting my breath. Toodloos.

exactlyyy seme has a body w higher fat which makes him slower, strikers w that type of body dont go far, soccer players look skinny but acc have muscultature esp on the lower part of their bodies, so u cant ask for logic when u urself arent logical ifykwim

Lol Christiano ronaldo has that type of body. So does Messi. Check out his 2025pics. But I guess they didn't go very far....

talking abt the seme n the seme does NOT have the same body as cr7, bro litt has the body of a boxer not a soccer player

Ikr the uke is a legend