Lmao, people here trying to explain what Taesung did was a crime and that makes him a criminal. Like helloooo, did y'all somehow forget that he's a literal gangster boss who most likely dabbles in illegal businesses/transactions and has killed several people already? Like did that not already establish he's a criminal and not a good Christian boy? lol. I thought the dark theme was pretty obvious.
Right?! Like what do they expect him to do? Treat Soo Young like some princess in distress. He's a freaking gangster not a knight in shining armor
This is why Mokhwa is the best and the best lover for Changkyung. Mokhwa knew Changkyung didn't do it to cheat on him. Mokhwa knew Changkyung just didn't knew better, that he has to teach Changkyung even more why what he did was wrong and Changkyung is willing to learn and to repent. Because Mokhwa knows that his lover ain't normal.
Idk why y'all are so stubborn in saying that he was cheating and that you want him to suffer more. Changkyung only wanted the money, he didn't do it to have sex with other people or to make Mokhwa jealous. It almost feels like y'all will even consider holding hands as cheating now. The way y'all think is too black and white, and frankly quite spiteful. Instead of directly confronting and communicating which is what Mokhwa did, y'all actually wanted him to drag it longer to "punish" Changkyung and make him suffer more. Like what???
EXACTLY!!! Thank you for sharing bestie
Bruh, the Minhyuk stans scares me more than both Minhyuk and Taesung themselves.
literally the one below this comment just defended minhyuk by saying "love makes you do bad things like rape"
ive never been speechless
I'm one myself, so I know how you feel
ur comment is literally right above that comment bro like what the fuck
Yooo peeps, just letting you know that that bitch did something so horrible to Isaac's dad. Like I'm not even sure if I want to see it in the manhwa.
…. Honestly FR ….it was so disgusting to read but what came after that was enough to wash that disgusting piece of shit away….was sad but fuck omg….
I really want to find out at the same time
Read the novel on wattpad name : dear Ben the scene starts around - chap 10 part 2 but you can read where the manga left off befor this chapter
can i get a link to the novel? or what is the author name so i can find the novel on wattpad
The first one is a mistake. This should be the one:
https://www.wattpad.com/1002033123-dear-ben-chapter-10-part-2
Oh thats- oh god I don't wanna read anymore- dear god
As much as it’s terrible this is a really good story
Oh what the actual f***
@Colorless_skeleton69 LMAO, bold words for someone who BLOCKED ME FIRST in the first place because they couldn't handle the arguments XD. You people are cray-cray. I didn't even call you out directly hahahahaha. Suck it ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
Changkyung is more like essentially prostituting himself rather than cheating. And come on, they barely even did anything and he stopped because he went with his instinct that what was happening was in fact wrong. It's pretty clear that he's not fully grown up yet morally and emotionally.
I'm surprised someone can see the gray line, a lot of people seem to associate prostitution, sexual abuse, and cheating as one thing it's tiring to point out the differences due to how stubborn and toxic they can be in forcing their opinions...
I wish there were more people like you.
It's getting kinda tiring pointing out something which I think is obvious. I despise cheating but I'm pretty this is not called cheating. I don't understand why they are so eager to call this cheating. It sometimes feel like they'll even consider holding hands as cheating at this point.
It is cheating. He never consulted with his partner about it. And clearly his partner disapproved of this attempted prostitution. But Prostitution or not, sex is the most intimate bond that you share with your lover. Even kissing and shit. You’re not supposed to give it to someone else even if there’s no feelings invloved.
That's too black and white thinking. You're being indiscriminate about it. It's almost like you'll even consider holding hands as cheating now. The important point is that Changkyung did this not to have pleasureable sex with other people. He wasn't event emotionally and sexually invested in it. They barely did anything, like they didn't even have sex. The most important point is that Changkyung is not human. It was so obvious that he had no understanding on what cheating was. Even Mokhwa knows this, that's why he didn't drag this issue. Mokhwa knew Changkyung made an honest mistake and that he needs to tell him and to make him understand that it was wrong so he would know that he shouldn't do this again. In the end, Changkyung eventually figured out that what's happening was in fact wrong.
I'm personally more disgusted by the people saying Mokhwa should drag the problem more to make Changkyung suffer more. It's gratuitously spiteful and I'm concerned that many people don't see how wrong this is.
Wether he knew it or not, its cheating regardless. N no one said holding hands is cheating. Ur misunderstanding us.
He has been in human form way longer than the other two yet the other two knows better. And mokhwa already told him how it makes him feel when he shows love or intimacy with other people. Yet he still did it. What r u on?
It was very clear that he's the least intelligent among the other two. Even Rino knows/thinks that Changkyung is stupid.
Mokhwa really haven't taught him about cheating. That's what I'm on about.
Yeah no. I said it's almost like, I didn't say you said or someone said holding hands is. I said that because of how rigid you guys think.
"Whether he knew it or not"
Yeah no, it matters a LOT if he knew it or not and Changkyung definitely did not.
Being dumb or not, cheating is cheating. He doesnt need to know what cheating is. They already had a similar problem and resolved it. Mokhwa already explained how he felt when he does things like this. He shouldve learned the first time.
I didnt word it right. No one is saying that something as little as holding hands is unforgivable. Theres a HUGE difference with holding hands and kissing/attempted sex. Even if u dont agree, u seem to be dismissing that its valid to feel hurt and feel hatred when someone messes up big time even if “they didnt know”
No he didn't. Even in the recent chapter Mokhwa knows this and that he is to teach him this time.
Being dumb or not matters being consciously knowing what you did is wrong matters a lot.
"Theres a HUGE difference with holding hands and kissing/attempted sex."
They didn't kiss, they didn't have sex, and the attempt is totally one-sided as Changkyung was feeling uncomfortable the entire time.
"u seem to be dismissing that its valid to feel hurt and feel hatred when someone messes up big time even if “they didnt know”
Lol, did I ever dismissed Mokhwa getting mad about it? I'm pretty sure I said before that Mokhwa getting mad is correct and that he is in the right. The intentions matters a lot. It's like why murder and manslaughter are different things
Again, even Mokhwa knows that Changkyung just didn't know better. I feel incredibly uncomfortable reading how spiteful/hateful some of the comments here were. Literally a lot of y'all wanted Mokhwa to drag the issue further to make Changkyung suffer more. I'm glad Mokhwa is a mature individual and he didn't do that, instead he directly confronted and communicated with Changkyung.
Wdym no he didnt? Reread their arc again please.
Since you seem to recall it, can you kindly give me the chapter number then?
How was it one sided when he agreed to it in the first place. Even if he was uncomfy, he agreed in the first palce which led to it. N kisses on the body and touching and rubbing his dick is just as bad as just kissing. He never asked mokhwa for permission n Mokhwa never gave consent to him selling his body. He cheated. Point blank period wether he knew it or not. If its wrong, its wrong. Hence why the author even made this a conflict to begin with. N the author made mokhwa’s character full of forgiveness n shit. Obv thats how he would resolve it. N i dont remember u saying that mokhwa was correct for getting mad. If u did, tell me which reply it was.
I cant. I dont specifically know which chapters it were. But lets just agree to disagree since this is gonna continue on forever.
"How was it one sided"
Because he didn't want it or enjoy it. He just wanted the money.
"N kisses on the body and touching and rubbing his dick is just as bad as just kissing."
They barely did anything. It was hardly intimate.
"never gave consent to him selling his body."
What?? They are in a relationship but Mokhwa doesn't own Changkyung's body. He's not his pet/toy. He's his own person.
"Point blank period wether he knew it or not. If its wrong, its wrong"
You see the flaw with this logic is how rigidly black and white it is, on how it directly ignores and doesn't consider the circumstances around it. Take for example what happened to a distant friend of mine. His drink got spiked and there were scandalous photos of him with other people that spread and eventually reached his gf. His gf abandoned him and accused of him cheating, even tho he tried to explain that he didn't know what happened nor does he remember what happened. Even tho there was indeed proof that he was drugged, his gf, along with her other friends, still adamantly accused of him cheating and she broke up with him. With your logic, the circumstances doesn't matter. The guy technically cheated so he's definitely a cheater and he was wrong, point blank period.
"the author made mokhwa’s character full of forgiveness n shit."
Nope. He made Mokhwa a mature and rational individual. Someone who knows that his bf is not human and has still has not 100% fully grasped human morality and principles.
"i dont remember u saying that mokhwa was correct for getting mad. If u did, tell me which reply it was."
I never did since I never said Mokhwa was in the wrong for getting mad at Changkyung.
Suuuuure ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Both semes are bad in their own way, yes that's true. It's a given considering they're gangsters and that the theme is clearly on the darker side. But both are clearly not equally bad/evil. I disagree with people that indiscriminately lump the two together.
One is a fleshed out character. Plenty of dialogues/monologues and visual cues that reveals/shows an in depth view of his character, personality, etc. And yet people would often outright either misinterpret the information or just ignore and make gross overexagerrations.
The other has little screen time. Not that much dialogues/monologues that is substantial enough to fully justify his actions nor enough in depth view of his character for me to somewhat empathize. And yet people shower this character with praise and glory just because of his character design. Let's just be honest here because y'all aren't exactly being subtle about it.
Those are the issues I have when y'all lump the semes together. You're essentially wasting the authors efforts in writing the story when you don't even attempt to read them properly, and that all it takes is a pretty face for y'all to get easily swayed.
Most of the comments is about how bad Minhyuk is? Lmao, literally a large part of the comments are either praising him or thirsting for him. There's not that many that criticizes him and most of those only started coming in when the spoiler for the rape came out. That's where some people started drawing the line, lmao.
Lol, some people are triggered by Taesung's and Sooyung's harmless puppy-dog talk yet they remain so absolutely unbothered/indifferent with Minhyuk's abuses to Dohyun, as well as his casual hobby of fucking around with many other people, or even assaulting Sooyung that even until now didn't know he was assaulted by the person who he trusted and even liked and cared for as his junior. Riiiiiight. What a fascinating set of standards you people have (▰˘◡˘▰)
bro don’t put all the blame on min-hyuk. Both semes are absolutely horrible. Taesung is the reaaon for the uke’s brain injury. He would’ve been dead without min-hyuk that first time he got beat up
"Taesung is the reaaon for the uke’s brain injury."
Wrong. Sooyung's brain injury is caused by his boxing career.
"He would’ve been dead without min-hyuk that first time he got beat up"
I didn't deny that tho? In fact I give Minhyuk that credit. I give credit where credit is due.
his brain injury is literally so much worse now BECAUSE of taesung. All the near death experiences he had to face just because taesung wanted to hold sooyoung out long enough until he came crawling back all affected his brain injury MASSIVELY
"his brain injury is literally so much worse now BECAUSE of taesung."
Wrong again. It got worse because he badly got beat up in the previous chapter. Who told Sooyung to snoop around a gangster's territory and then get beat up by the gangsters? Hmmm?
"All the near death experiences"
Bruh, there was only one, and that was the stabbing incident. If you read the manhwa you'd know that Taesung didn't expect the stabbing and he regretted his decision and even acknowledged that he could've killed Sooyung, that he fucked up.
Is taesung paying you to defend him so hard? you’re so infatuated with him you can even see his wrongs. He’s a possessive asshole that keeping sooyoung like a pet. I would explain further but you’re a lost cause
Lmao, keeping him like a pet, one of the many red flags telling me it's a waste of time to argue with you so bye Felicia.
Lmao fr
Do you even read this manwha correctly?
yeah did you?
I did and both of them are shit but the way you told the plot are totally misleading, the part where taesung want sooyoung crawling back to him i got it but the brain injury... but we all believe what we want so i don't want to argue further.
What even is this. "He's treating Sooyung like less of a human being. He's treating him like a dog". If someone who doesn't follow/read the manhwa read this comments, they would surely think that this Sooyung person is being treated like not a human e.g. not provided with basic human needs/necessities, treated like a pet for recreation, etc. , when in fact none of those shit come even close to what has actually happened, which is that Sooyung only got cuffed and locked up.
Bruhhh, he's a gangster boss, surely you'd expect he would do this sort of extreme measure.
Did y'all even at least slightly read the manhwa? It's essentially this:
Taesung is possessive and afraid of losing Sooyung +
Sooyung goes missing for quite a while with the possibility of him being already dead +
Sooyung got badly beat up +
Tension between other rival gangs is rising +
Taesung knowing full well that if these rival gangs comes for him, they'll come for Sooyung as well +
Sooyung has a well known history of not listening and staying put which is why he got beat up and kidnapped in the first place =
Taesung locking him up, probably both for his protection and to keep him close for himself (possessive duh).
Like bruuuh, just stop slandering Taesung with overexagerrations and misleading out-of-context bullshit and just directly say that you hate him because you prefer Minhyuk to be endgame with Sooyung (even tho he's totally nasty as well and his "love" for Sooyung is absolutely one-sided lol). Just stop with this "oh no, what he did is not a very Christian thing to do" nonsense.
The author will be the one to decide with who Soo Young will end up with, whether we prefer Taesung or Minhyuk (I love both Taesung cause he’s just so damn handsome n Minhyuk but Minhyuk a little bit much cause he’s a cutie plus he seems pretty serious about Soo Young and wants a safe and normal life for him and that’s why he wants to run away with him). They’re both fighting for Soo Young. Instead of acting like dumb kids and argue like ‘noo Minhyuk is trash and he’s a rapist’ or ‘Taesung is better than Minhyuk’ (even though both of them did what they did) just let us enjoy the manga as it is. ┑(￣Д ￣)┍
Hm yeah I get what you're saying. I think this manga is a little more plot heavy and more complicated than a taesung vs minhyuk as a main love haha. I think people always simplify these sorts of mangas. i.e., main love = good guy.
Except that's totally not the case, everyone in this manga is batshit crazy. Like legitimately mentally unwell mixed with a predisposition for violence in jobs which values these traits.
The way Sooyung is treated is meant to make us uncomfortable and feel weird. It's not really 'just' getting cuffed up there's the psychological aspect of Sooyoung being 'kept' (or "safe" as Taesung perceives it, but I think both mean the same thing to him).
Your 'sooyoung has a well known history of not listening and staying put' is a little hmm. He's a whole person haha, with autonomous actions thoughts and feelings, not a pet like you've implied lol. The reason this even happened was because Taesung hasn't told him anything and values control over any sort of communication.
I feel just because the actions make sense in the context of the character doesn't mean any opposition to his behaviour is a 'goodness what an un Christian action!". Like it's a legitimate yikes dude that's a lot - because it is alot more than a *just* cuffing him to a bed.
You're right tho, Min is gross and taesung is also gross. Sooyung is like, seriously unwell. Nobody is okay hahah and that's kind of the fun of the story.
I think you may have understood me, well I guess it's kinda partly my fault as I've written that under intense emotion. Anyway,
"I think people always simplify these sorts of mangas. i.e., main love = good guy."
That's actually kinda opposite of what I think. I pretty much acknowledge Taesung's flaws, but I would see more often than not, overexagerrationd and misleading stuff about him. That's what I take issue of. If you want to criticize him at least do it properly and factually. People would often simplify and overexagerrate when it comes to Taesung while people would often downplay or ignore it when it comes to Minhyuk. That's what irks me.
"Except that's totally not the case, everyone in this manga is batshit crazy."
I mean I did acknowledge he's a gangster boss. What I don't get is why are people so overly conservative about this stuff (and it's particularly skewed towards a specific character as well)
"The way Sooyung is treated is meant to make us uncomfortable and feel weird."
I didn't say it was a good thing either. What I was trying to say is to stop making an overexagerration about it which can lead to some quite misleading conclusions.
"He's a whole person haha, with autonomous actions thoughts and feelings, not a pet like you've implied lol."
What??? I'm sorry but how tf did you interpret that as me implying he's a pet? I'm basically saying he's stubborn. That is one of Sooyung's defining trait. He doesn't really listen unless something happens.(sorry for the rather aggressive reaction but I despise this pet thing, much more being accused of liking or implying it).
"The reason this even happened was because Taesung hasn't told him anything and values control over any sort of communication."
Partly true. It's both. It's because of Taesung keeping his secret and Sooyung wanting to know that particular secret and we all know why Taesung doesnt what the secret to be found. It was inevitable in this setup. Plus, you wouldn't normally snoop around gangster territories, lol. But not Sooyung of course, because that's what he is. He is stubborn and brave. He wants to know the truth and he suffered the consequences for it.
"I feel just because the actions make sense in the context of the character doesn't mean any opposition to his behaviour is a 'goodness what an un Christian action!".
I'm not saying what he did was good, lol. That was just me basically calling out the hypocrisy of some certain people saying this sort of stuff while barely even criticizing the more un-Christian stuff that Minhyuk did. I wrote that in a heat of moment.
The reason why I have hope for Taesung is because he has a very huge chance/possibility for character development. It has been shown time and time again in the manhwa that he has the capacity to do better and be better for Sooyung but his over possessiveness always makes him do shitty stuff. What needs to happen is Sooyung confronting Taesung about his involvement with his uncle's death as well as some other stuff.
I forgot to add this in my previous reply.
"I think people always simplify these sorts of mangas. i.e., main love = good guy."
Well you see, ever heard of the lesser of two evils? That's basically what I'm rooting for. Because it's kinda highly likely that the author will end Sooyung with Taesung and that this story is clearly on the much more darker side.
Reading this comment of mine again in a much calmer state made me realize what a mess it is, lol. Eh, I guess I'll let it stay there, I'm curious on what other type of response/reaction I'll get.
No, you've completely misunderstood my comment and need better reading comprehension. I was just responding to your comment because I thought you made some interesting points and wanted to discuss a cool storyline, not attack you. It's odd you've decided to go through point by point, but I guess I'll do that too?
1. My first point was me agreeing with you. Of course it's opposite to what you think - I'm saying that's how people who do the whole simplistic Minhyuk vs Taesung nonsense see this story (e.g., the people YOU disagree you).
2. The second point was ALSO me agreeing with you.
3. ALSO me agreeing with you.
4. You tried to say how Sooyung is being treated isn't actually that bad, but it's happened cause he's stubborn and Taesung wants to protect him. My reply was pointing out if that's the case, Sooyung is a full grown adult who makes his own decisions and isn't like a pet to be told what to do and when to do it, which is exactly how Taesung is trying to treat him.
5. Yeah I agree.
5. Yeah I know you were calling out the hypocrisy. But again, if we take away Minkhyuk vs Taesung crap - discussing Taesung's actions doesn't mean we've missed the darker tones of the manga and are too "conservative" to get it. It's just people discussing the story and the character's actions. (Side note - you've used the term "unchristian", while I know the term, it's not commonly used where I'm from. Do you say it alot?).
6. I agree. That's how story's work, there's character development. I'm hoping Sooyung changes and grows and manages to change his environment rather than waiting for it to change around him.
As for your "lesser of two evils", sure whatever. Idc who ends up with who, I'm more looking forward to the character development of our main dude and seeing him become an independent healthy person.
It's highkey bummed me out I replied to your comment thinking oh cool, interesting points and you replied in this weird angry way aha. It doesn't bother me when people disagree with me it's cool to discuss different viewpoints and opinions. Maybe you should keep that in mind.
Dude, let me say this first, I think you also misunderstood my reply as well. That reply wasn't referring to you. That was a criticism towards me. I didn't perceive your reply as hateful at all. That's why I took the time to reply to it properly.
Let me make it clear again since this seems to be spiraling into a complete misunderstanding. That reply was a self criticism made by me, directed towards myself. I did not perceive your reply as an attack towards me at all.
Okay, no worries. All good
"need better reading comprehension."
Quite uncalled for but okay I guess since it was from a misunderstanding (and I guess I might need to lol)
Ah it seems I see where I started to misunderstand you. You had a paragraph that I perceived as you talking to me when in fact you didn't. So my mistake.
" Sooyung is a full grown adult who makes his own decisions and isn't like a pet to be told what to do and when to do it, which is exactly how Taesung is trying to treat him."
Ah you see I really don't agree with the pet thing. I just dislike it. Sooyung is a full grown adult man, yes that's true but you see to Taesung, Sooyung needs him that's why he tends to tell him what to and what not to do. It's not because he treats him like a pet, it's more like a controlling overbearing authority of some sort. I'm not saying it's good, I'm just want to really drop the pet thing.
"discussing Taesung's actions doesn't mean we've missed the darker tones of the manga and are too "conservative" to get it. It's just people discussing the story and the character's actions."
I'm pretty confident that you didn't miss it. That was more just directed to those who did. To those who frequently overexagerrate stuff. I'm pretty sure you're not that type of person so I would like to clear up that that wasn't directed to you.
" you've used the term "unchristian", while I know the term, it's not commonly used where I'm from. Do you say it alot?)."
Ah, sorry about that. It was just brought out by the heat of the moment. It's actually the first time I've used it. I don't really use it all. It was just due to the lack for better words during that time.
Again, I didn't mean to come off as an angry reply to you. Just know that it wasn't really. Well I'll admit I did get a bit mad at that pet bit but other than that, I wasn't really angry at your reply nor did I perceive it to be hateful.
I hope this clear things up.
Ahh finally someone with common sense!