LoverOfYaoi's Topics (269)

Ikr???? Like why

I don’t understand how people hate him when he was the victim from the beginning. Sad

of course, it’s easy to hate someone based on one perception. but even then, sasya could’ve easily done things different. and he’s being despised for a very good reason. at some point he had enough. but he really had to sell himself to get somewhere for god knows what reasons he couldn’t even fathom himself. even with his pov, there’s not much to justify or excuse.

you don’t understand or is it your compassion one dimensional? just because he became victim of something—doesn’t equally mean that everything he does should be justified in that same manner that pity perceives or make him out to be. saying he’s the victim for every action that he does is like beating a dead horse.

I never said that he’s a victim for every action what did he do? That is so terrible and not justifiable?? just because he said he was a Goddd and he wasn’t. Y’all make it seem like he committed something so terrible and so vile. matter of fact, yes, my compassion is one dimensional because at the end of the day, he may have told a lie, but he never deserved what happened to him. y’all are acting like it was him that made a society so bad

@rey no, but you certainly do imply that just because he’s the victim he should not be hated. if you didn’t, it was a mistake on your part for construing it wrong. that’s quite literally the same as justifying what he does, “because you cannot understand why people hate him.” did he do something terrible? yes. did he do something so vile? again yes. was there any effort on his part to mend things back the way it was or to clear sth up? no, he always ran away from the problems and never tried to solve their issues. Sasya went above and beyond everything they’ve done with other people to achieve whatever by whatever means that he felt previously disgusted by doing it with someone that actually loved him. he’s doing all that disgusting shit for years while not even having a clear objective for why he’s doing what he’s doing. it’s clearly hypocritical, selfish, beyond the point of shame, 2nd hand embarrassment and unnerving when he wants Karel back after all he’s given him in return for abandonment. he was never grateful for being saved from torture. the audacity to ask what’s wrong with Sasya? many things. just because he came around after realizing that karel is alive doesn’t make him any better. sure there are many things yet to unfold, but for so far—you cannot excuse what Sasya did towards Karel.

@rey again. nobody deserves to be mistreated. but quite literally he mistreated someone who spent a fortune to find a stranger no less + served in prison FOR him. lets not forget that. this is what you call dismissive behavior in favor of promoting toxic positivity. don’t fill in context you don’t know anything about.

it’s kind of funny; “the lack of regard and consideration for another’s feelings is violence.“ in itself doesn’t make sense, feelings aren’t physical and will never constitute as an act of violence. it’s quite the contradictory statement from a hypocrite. but let’s see if there’s a redemption arc enough to cleanse him from what he has done.

Yeah and what’s funny to is how people are hellbent on trying to make him the sole villain in this whole story. Lol everyone is looking the other way when it comes to Karel possessive love, they think it’s cute and justifiable but not some of Sasha’s actions. The whole story so far we’ve legit only seen mainly Karen’s pov, we don’t even know why he never got the letters from Sasya but nooo we have to hate Sasya right? Please

When has he sold himself? Coz so far how he got where he is it’s because of his hard work abd that was also stated in the story. We only saw parts when he started to entertain that old man because his boss was forcing him to in the name of keeping the theatre going and his career but is funny because clearly you’re the one whose compassion is one dimensional

Just because something isn’t physical doesn’t mean there’s no violence. Violence can be introduced in a plethora of forms. Ever heard of emotional/psychological/economical/etc abuse? There is so many ways you can hurt a person without having to get physical. Here’s one, controlling a person’s life is a form of abuse. Karel may have been on the lesser side of this (the controlling part) but so far from what we’ve seen in the story, he very much got to dictate Sasya’s life from the moment they met. Going so far as proclaiming in every instance they were together that Sasya may never leave him, which is imprisonment. And don’t say that never happened because he literally went through lengths to get him back both of the times Sasya left. Sasya didn’t ask for any of it except to get further away from Russia because he had no choice at that point. Also, you’re seriously getting mad at someone who basically and quite literally got forced to love someone?? I’m not saying everything Sasya did was great because it wasn’t. But to despise him so much for the very one sided story we’ve gotten so far and misunderstanding the bits of information surrounding this story (like how you said he sold himself for years when in multiple occasions, from various people at that(the director of the ballet company, the one ballerina and the socialites who were present when Sasha and Karel met again), the story let’s us know Sasya never did anything more than chat with the socialites until that old piece of shit and it was literally only once. You can’t count the sexual assault as him selling himself) just means you’re not really looking at this story objectively. I can’t blame you for that because it’s what makes great storytelling, introducing the different point of views. But that’s why you shouldn’t rush to form biased opinions yet, because we didn’t get to see the full picture yet. We got to see Karel’s pov, now we’re finally seeing how it really was from Sasya’s pov and tbh so far it looks like he genuinely got to care for Karel but things became far more complicated than we thought

It’s funny how you say “don’t fill in context you don't know anything about” when that’s literally what you’re doing. Sit back, let the story unfold and stop assuming you know all of the context when we’ve literally only got Karel’s one sided pov this whole time. PS, I really think you’ve gotta take a step back and realize you’re promoting toxic positivity yourself. Karel’s love, as endearing as it looks at times is actually really toxic, to the point that he decided to go to prison, and consequently to war, for himself, not for Sasya. Firstly, because he knew Sasya would not survive had he gotten caught for the crime which would mean no more Sasya and secondly, to not be away too long from Sasya.

Don’t confuse the names, it’s Sasya, not Sasha. The whole thing was about why people are hating on Sasya. Also, why can’t we hate a character? The author made it that way. The hate is justified, you don’t get it? An empty husk asking someone to fill its void when all it did was bring harm its way, like a dog biting his owner. Just because you are being abused, mistreated and manipulated doesn’t mean you can and should inflict the exact same thing to someone who has done nothing to you. Get the difference right, I NEVER painted Sasya as the villain. Receiving hate doesn’t correlate to something being or becoming villainous. Those were your exact words YOU put in people’s mouth.

To lead Karel on and make him invest into him for what? Also quite literally made him abandon his brother—his only connection and indirectly caused a fatal blow to the reputable House Ludwig. I’m not projecting, it’s quite literally 1+1 and isn’t hard to proximate the causal links. Also I’m not even talking Karel’s possessiveness and I have never justified his actions—he’s a total stupid idiot. We’re talking about the heat Sasya’s getting, remember? Besides, have you seen the other way around or are you turning a blind eye like how Karel irrationally got blindsided by his “first love?” Don’t forget, Sasya WAS also being passively obsessively possessive. Did you forget that or what was the exact logic behind for bringing in Karel’s possessiveness? Sasya was being opportunistic, calculative and selfishly reached what he could reach only to be “hurt” in the end. It shows that despite being portrayed as “unstable and irrational” that his brain is working, or perhaps only when it concerns his survivability? No. It doesn’t work like that.

Yes, we don’t know what happened to the letters. BUT it doesn’t diminish what he has done. Are letters the only way to contact prisoners? Was there really no way of telling from the letters he received that none of them were answered for the past years? It’s quite common sense at this point that things could’ve gone differently if he even questioned and grew observant during those years. That’s if, he really cared. But get this, even WITHOUT this letter problem, it doesn’t justify nor solve anything. It’s only PART of the problem.

We have not only seen Karel’s pov, just not enough yet. However, that “atonement” of Sasya only goes to show that he has some sense of guilt that’s haunting him back for not giving more than for what he owed. It’s coping and not even gaslighting at this point; you believing is the voluntary act of accepting to be manipulated.

Now you’re looking into the depths of what could be applicable. Generally, when physically talking about violence to another, it holds relative to any physical force exercised causing in some way or form destruction onto something. Though, in any case, I have no problem conceding to that there are definitely other things that could’ve been interpreted under violence where such things could fall under.

I am not angry or mad at Sasya to set the record straight. I just can’t fathom how people don’t or are unable to understand why the hate for Sasya isn’t justified. The story had not been one-sided, have you read the story to date? That’s quite literally the author’s intention to portray him despicable. Humor me and tell me the reason for why we cannot hate characters? There’s plenty of cases when people tell others to know that there are two sides to the story, but really they never listen to their own advice.

Anyways, I never mentioned anything much about the bad things of Karel, so you may think I don’t understand or am blindsided by the things Karel has done. But I’m well aware that he’s at the point of no return of being controlling, obsessive, possessively irrational and delusional. But you have to understand that that seed wasn’t sown yet, until Sasya led him on “to never blow the fire out” and to keep it ignited. YOU have decided to look at what happened AFTERWARDS and either feigned ignorance to the premise or overlooked the importance of what manipulation does to people. With this I’m not saying that what Karel has done afterwards is “justified”—but again that’s not the point of what I’m trying to say and if you misinterpret it that’s on you—and this literally follows from a chain reaction of cause and effect. This is rather a tale of how Karel fell prey first to Sasya and Sasya not knowing he picked the wrong fight.

Point is, you DON’T repay someone with your body when you damningly KNOW that that person whom you don’t even like-like, likes you a whole obsessive lot. WHILE knowing that he doesn’t love Karel or actually felt any attraction whatsoever for him. He may be “your savior” but in what world does that mean you should be doing that. That’s not right, that’s beyond borderline messed up. And right after deciding that he “returned the favor by paying with his body,” he felt used and gave him the cold shoulder. It demonstrates a very illogical sequence of pattern thinking. Because remember that he refused to be the grand duke’s paramour, who exercises a lot of influence, but he didn’t even went to that extent? So, why is he doing all of this to Karel? Is Sasya afraid that Karel will hurt him while he has time and time again proven that he had never been physically violent with Sasya? Sure, it’s hard to build a trusty relationship—but that’s all the more reason why you shouldn’t play with people and dip your toes in something that has previously shown him nothing, but plenty times of pain, no? The logical sequence is that traumatic people learn from their traumatic, negatively imparted experiences. Which only applied to the only situation when Sasya was on the run from the grand duke. But how does that make sense when the rest doesn’t? Though, really, why poke your nose into something where it doesn’t belong? 

I mentioned that he has been selling his body. It was my bad to have said “for years” however around the chapters 20-21. It’s relatively unclear how he achieved glory in just a mere 9 months time. But it was implicitly expressed that he has committed sodomy to get where he is now. It’s not hard to deduce which of the options he did and didn’t do, after all it was given that it was partially right—of which two relate to one thing—kissing up to socialites’ asses to get their favors. I really don’t think it’s only my impression, but Sasya seems to have experience bedding nobles for his favor. A favor in such pretext never happens once, that’s really wishful innocent thinking; especially when mentioned that the people of arts are basically prostitutes to the nobles. You can’t deny that.

Just because I haven’t shared my thoughts on Karel doesn’t mean I’m promoting toxic positivity nor am I to your dismay delusional enough to think that all Karel has done is cute and adorable. Now that I have done that, take a greater look at yourself with your toxic positivity protecting the “victim” of the story; doing all sorts of questionable things without a clear objective.

Sure, you might argue that we don’t know the full robber-to-murder story; however, there’s enough nuance from both Karel’s expression and Sasya’s guilt that he did take the fall for Sasya. Besides that, I haven’t filled in any of the contexts; I only restated what has been stated and questioned those dubious scenarios. The irony is that you cannot differentiate that I only raised questions that should’ve been logical during that moment.

Chances are only given to those who truly deserve it; for story’s sake we’ll have to see the prowess of Sasya’s redemption and whether that really can reverse the irreversible. But really, you can’t undo mistakes that have taken years from someone else’s life and happiness and expect that repenting is sufficient.

Oh yeah—another thing. Sasya lost all my sympathy the moment, like said, tried to seduce Karel for his own gains and finds himself at the mercy of none other than the result from his own actions. That is the very moment he soberly threw away his victimhood and remember this was the beginning of everything. While remembering his mother’s last wishes to be wary of kindness, he did the exact opposite and extorted as much as he could from his so-called then “savior.” That’s not how you show kindness in return. At the end of the day, most of it is Sasya to blame; to say that the missing details or resulting misunderstandings from not communicating properly is really not sufficient to eradicate what all led to this point. All by all, construes an objective opinion in my opinion—but if you insist on feigning ignorance to how such small detail could’ve escalated to this; that’s your biased perspective for neglecting a major based factor.

For so far, I still can’t really say that Sasya got to care for Karel. Now and then, he drinks alcohol and lays in bed; there’s no difference. But let’s see what the story tells.

Lol girl I think you’re responding to the wrong person haha

Or not haha, I thought you were responding to me.

I’m not reading none of that. I’m just gonna say I stand on my opinion and I’m not wrong. I don’t care what you think about him, him running away have having problems or whatever the fuck you said. He doesn’t deserve it.

Lollllll you’re doing so much just to make him seem like the bad guy, acting like it was him that did that personally and told that person to do that. You’re directing all the blame it on your hatred onto one person and that’s very unfair. stop trying to make the story fit your narrative when it doesn’t.

Literallyyyyy. Like bitches are really writing paragraphs, of why they think he’s the villain like

Can’t say shit, so they use underhanded tactics like insulting and even searching for validation among themselves? Same feather flocks together am I right?

If you are not even bothering to read, that’s fine, it only shows how fickle you are with that shallow personality of yours with nothing to back up. Don’t start something you cannot finish. Oh, and by the way you’re wrong.

Being aware and having knowledge, but not realizing that leading someone on is despicable makes you a twofold hypocrite.

No, I’m merely correcting your statement of “feelings aren’t physical therefore it can never be violence”. I think at this point we can both agree that violence and abuse is not limited to just the physical aspect.

I have read the story up to date and the matter of fact is you’re proving me right. The author has been portraying him despicable through Karel’s pov. In case you’re misunderstanding me, I’m not stating that the story has only ever been from Karel’s pov from the beginning, though it has for the most part, I’m specifically talking about after they fled Vienna. We’re now seeing more about how it was from Sasya’s pov. I never said characters cannot be hated, that’s the whole point of a story. Not all of the characters are designed to be loved unless it’s a comedy. My point was to be objective because you’re painting Sasya as the worst thing on earth when in reality, he isn’t. And all of the arguments you provided prior to this reply were very much biased as you were not considering or weighing both of their involvement in what’s happened so far.

That’s where you’re wrong. By the time Sasya actually decided to use him, solely because he had no choice in the matter anymore, Karel was already obsessive to the point of wasting a fortune in hiring private investigators to look for Sasya. Julian himself even told him he’s just obsessed because he wants to sleep with him and should therefore just bed anyone who looks like him to get over it and he happened to run into Sasya right as he was going to sleep with someone with hair dark enough to remind him of Sasya. If you seriously tell me that he was not obsessed by that point in which Sasya hadn’t done anything with or to him yet, then I’m sorry to inform you that you are not caring a bit about the facts of the story. I’m not ignorant to the manipulation that took place the night Sasya decided to get drunk and “feed the flame” of Karel’s obsession, but you’re completely ignoring his entire reasoning for doing so. Like I said, Sasya did make choices that weren’t all too great, like leading Karel on but you can’t in all seriousness tell me that you can’t have even an ounce of sympathy for him when he was forced to act like that, both by Karel and Julian and by circumstances themselves. And when looking at the flashbacks from Sasya’s pov where he talks about how hard it was to even kiss Karel outside because it would cause Karel issues as he was already accused of sodomy, you realize that the whole leading on bit was really on the beginning when they were living with Julian. Things certainly changed when they were living alone but we still don’t know to what extent, because the story hasn’t revealed much from Sasya’s pov yet. And again, to reiterate, Karel was already obsessive and basically imprisoned him by the time Sasya did anything, so this narrative of “Karel fell prey to Sasya first” is just wrong.

Okay let me stop you right there. You’re ignoring the whole point that from his CHILDHOOD, Sasya learned that every bit of kindness comes attached with something and usually must be repaid. It’s the way he lived his entire life, do you really expect him to change his mindset in a split second? I normally would’ve agreed with you, and ask the same question “in what world does that mean you should be doing that?” However, I’ve come to realize throughout the years that life isn’t as black and white as I once thought and that there are many things that affect a persons choices, even ones they should know is only detrimental for themselves and others. Also, if he didn’t feel anything at all for Karel (he didn’t feel much at that point but it clearly was enough to make him go through with it), then he would’ve physically hurt him and fled once more, just like he did to the grand duke. It’s not only that he felt used, did you miss that entire chapter? Karel wasn’t super lovey and sweet in bed on that night, which he warned him about. Right after, Sasya quite literally said to himself “no woman would’ve been able to handle him”, which is why Karel himself said he wasn’t going to stop at all once he starts. (Which is very fucked up btw, consent can be initially given at the beginning when you think you’re okay with something and taken away after realizing you’re not actually okay with it. Respect should be above all else) The reason he felt used was because in that moment he thought that Karel, who always portrayed himself sweet and courteous, really was only lusting after him as did many others before him. Again, life isn’t so black and white my friend, I wish I could tell you that trauma keeps people from repeating the same mistakes or continuing on patterns but it’s actually the opposite, which is why it’s so important to heal from it. There is no such thing as “The logical sequence is that traumatic people learn from their traumatic, negatively imparted experiences.” Trauma isn’t logical, at all, which is why oftentimes these “traumatic people” don’t actually learn from their experiences. Not when it repeats itself and certainly not by themselves. The reason people who’ve been abused or used or lived in toxic situations, especially from childhood, seem to continue the same pattern is because it’s actually (as horrendous as it sounds) comforting to them, it’s something they’re used to, so even if it’s irrational to outsiders, it’s very rational to them. But anyways, I’m deviating from the story at this point. Point is, we don’t know the reasoning for none of those questions and that’s because, as OP said, we haven’t been given a full pov of Sasya’s feelings and thoughts throughout the entire story so far. As is the author’s intention with their storytelling.

I went back to read chapters 20 and 21 to remain objective and I’ve gotta inform you that you’re not wrong in believing that, as it was the authors intention to make you believe Sasya had became this way but, as I said before, the story itself from that point on let’s us know that Sasya never actually did entertain any of the socialites to climb to greatness until the old pos and the reason for that is right on episode 20 where the director insisted that he must have a sponsor even though Sasya already had sold out shows. The director himself says on chapter 22 “I DON'T ASK YOU TO ENTERTAIN THEM
LIKE I ASK THE OTHER
DANCERS TO, JUST SHOW YOUR FACE AND NOD AT WHATEVER
THEY'RE SAYING!”. Then in the next chapter a gossiping socialite says “HOW STRANGE. I ALWAYS HEARD HE
WAS THE ONE TO PLAY HARD TO GET…”. Lastly, in chapter 25, the ballerina says “I ALWAYS
THOUGHT YOU WEREN'T INTERESTED IN THINGS LIKE
THAT... BUT YOU WERE JUST WAITING TO CATCH A BIG ONE,
WEREN'T YOU?”. If these are not the biggest indicators that he wasn’t selling himself out, I don’t know what is. I don’t know where you got nine months from, its been years. The assistant housekeeper herself has worked for him little over a year and by the time she was hired he was already a well-known dancer. What you’re referencing to are the rumors, which that might be the portion he says is true but you’re forgetting that he was in a relationship with Karel for 4 years so the sodomy he speaks of may or may not be while he was in that relationship, as Karel was accused of sodomy and so they had to keep their relationship under wraps. But also, when the rumors are presented, he had just spent the night with the old pos so it could also be in reference to sleeping with him. I also think it’s not only your impression, it’s also your quick assumption without looking at all of the facts. No matter how things may seem (because again, such is the point of storytelling), when multiple sources in the story, not only the character in question but also multiple people with multiple other angles, express over and over again that things are so and so, then that’s most likely the truth, in this case that Sasya didn’t bed the nobles until the old pos. Literally the only character in this story, aside from the rumors, that calls Sasya a prostitute is that old pos. Everyone else in the socialite circle and around him are like oh he’s hard to get or he’s not interested in these kinds of things. Even his housekeeper says his life is uneventful, that should tell you something. You took the sentence “the people of arts are prone to harlotry” and decided to run with it and add more reasons to “why Sasya is such a horrible person” instead of taking the time to assess what is factual and what isn’t.

What exactly did he extort? Because all he did was give Karel affection, he didn’t ask anything other than to get further away from Russia, which not only benefits him but Karel as well as he gets to stay with Sasya. Again, you want to only blame Sasya for how everything but you’re ignoring the fact that it was Karel who looked for and essentially imprisoned Sasya in the first place. There is such thing as cause and effect, had Karel never looked for Sasya, they would’ve both gone on their own ways (which would’ve probably led to Sasya’s death and Karel doing whatever else) and Sasya in turn wouldn’t have led him on after being held against his will which wouldn’t have made Karel even more obsessive and so on. You wish to remain ignorant yourself to the root cause and that’s fine if that’s how you wish to interpret the story for yourself, however, when you speak to others about it as though it’s a matter of fact when you’ve been proven to be wrong, it just shows you don’t care much for the facts of the story.

So you’re just gonna ignore the bit of flashbacks then, is what you’re saying. I do see the care, and I know there’s more to come as the story unveils.

Im not “protecting the victim of the story” nor did I ever promote toxic positivity. I, unlike you, in my very first reply acknowledged that Sasya didn’t make the best of decisions because leading someone on isn’t okay. But when you put it on a scale against imprisonment, control, and obsession, which one weighs heavier? And spare me from the “Sasya made him like this by leading him on” because he was already like this by the time Sasya did anything. If you don’t think so, I suggest you reread the story and throw all of your biases away. What are all the questionable things he has done with no clear objective? You can’t say something like that and not elaborate.

I’ve not once said he didn’t take the fall for it, that’s been established in the story already. What we don’t know is what really happened because we haven’t gotten the full story yet. Anything more you say about this is mere speculation and filling in the contexts. There is no irony on my part as what I replied to didn’t include you raising any sorts of questions as you wanna make it seem. Neither did you really accomplish that with your prior statements to anyone here precisely because you’re not proving any facts, merely your own opinions of the story and characters.

Again, you speak with certainty as if you knew the whole story. As it unfolds, I hope you sit back and won’t have to chuck on your words.

I did not address this priorly, but Karel took the fall not for himself; that’s a half-assed assessment and you projecting a general coping mechanism onto someone else. We’re talking obsessive love disorders here. That’s quite literally the whole reason why he went to prison and took the fall for Sasya. He’d do anything to keep his one and only obsession. It’s a huge red flag for sure, but we all could see from afar that Karel almost came too strong. Sasya put up a wall, was aware, but then decided on to pursue him with a motive. Have we ever seen Sasya, at any given point, properly protest to not to be with Karel within the same vicinity, or even directly? No, and perhaps it’ll be uncovered, but I honestly highly doubt it.

You’re reaching like your fellows. I never painted Sasya to be the worst piece of shit on this planet nor am I blaming Sasya for everything. That is your strawman argument to rebut something I have never said. I thought you understood my message, I guess you did not.

What I DID say is that Sasya is guilty as the enabling hypocrite he can be and to NOT ignore that factor. What YOU ALL seem to downplay, which indirectly favors the preposition of promoting toxic positivity in this case. The difference between our stances is that I’m talking about the specifics of one’s actions. Whereas you’d like to bring in the complete picture when that isn’t the point and blatantly act on account of negligence. We, or should I say I am not talking about the effects, that’s another strawman you’ve construed. I’ve been meaning to shed light on the cause that Sasya commit with intent. There’s definitely cause and effect in everything. You dismissing that is again promoting toxic positivity. Even if Karel found him again, he could just TALK to make sense—as he was still rational at that point; maybe not to Julian, but he could certainly listen. Can’t communicate? Ask Julian to translate. It’s. Not. Hard. You’re missing the point and arguing for the wrong cause that I’m not about and act. As if you’re trying to tell me that I don’t see the gravity of Karel’s following actions, which I do and you don’t have to tell me that.

If characters can be hated, then why oppose the idea of hating Sasya? If you are not in on it, then that’s fine and only just express that. Why try invalidate others’ opinions and make it seem like Sasha has been innocent for the most part? Anyone who says that Sasya is innocent or not guilty for what has happened is a hypocrite. EVEN if you haven’t seen his pov yet; and there’s quite no need to establish an opinion. If the hate changes to not hating anymore, that’s for the viewers to think about and to see how it goes. But for now, it certainly goes that way. Because like you said, it’s how story goes right? My opinion will not change just because you say what happened next is the worst part of it all or worser than X without realizing what went wrong before it escalated. Because that’s not what you call being objective. Rather, that’s what I consider pushing the narrative in your favor to get your point across. That again, isn’t relevant to my point and certainly does not stand in this argument. If you don’t understand, then you’re not reading; just stop “reading” here.

Now take for example, if someone was heavily bullied and took their own lives because nobody stood up for them. Then, are those same bystanders, that did not stop the bullies from bullying the victim, not guilty? Legally, they aren’t. Morally? They are most definitely guilty—but will they be punished for it? Do they know they are wrong? Well, they better fucking do.

How about we change the outcome. The bully stands up for themselves and kills the bullies. Who’s now at fault? The bully or the victim? Would you still say the bully?

This is a chain reaction response following from a cause and effect. Causes are finite and at other times variables. In this particular case, Sasya could have possibly assumed the result from his actions ESPECIALLY as I will mention later to have figured Karel’s character—and still intently proceeded to do so. What’s before us is not like A dating B, a sociopathic killer, only for D to get killed by B for liking A. Because you cannot mistake a sociopath for a killer, like how you can pick up signs of an obsessive person.

You’re contradicting yourself. You DID say that it has ONLY been retold from Karel’s narrative. Here, let me personally quote it for you:

> Sit back, let the story unfold and stop assuming you know all of the context when we’ve literally only got Karel’s one sided pov this whole time.
>

Here’s the thing, if you want to see the very objectivity of something—then we should be seeing eye to eye that Sasya has been objectively the cause for what happened so far FROM BEGINNING TO END and is certainly to blame for a major part. Because so far, you’ve been trying to justify how enabling something to happen is not “the” problem or the logical sequence of someone’s indirect consequence—because what Karel did outweighs Sasya’s actions. Know that Sasya figured Karel’s personality and attachment for him long ago—that’s a given from noticing the change in present Karel’s demeanor. There’s no way he didn’t know what leaving their place would mean; did not even think to leave a letter at home if he (even) liked him.

On the notion of choice. I cannot accept your preposition of Sasya not having a choice. He always had a choice; how it’s executed depends on the wielder of the maker. Clearly, he did not make good use of it. You believing that he did not have a choice is akin to being complacent to your blatant delusion that should in no capacity be considered as factual information.

This story for so far, by all means, certainly follows the Karel-fell-prey-to-Sasya-first. Your judgement is clouded by Karel’s first love at sight. Any advancements approved by Sasya only further reinforced his obsession and he knew that. Sasya came to his conclusion after his trauma, that Karel was someone who didn’t expected anything in return after a brief few encounters. Then the question raises, but then why do something unnecessarily as to ..? Clearly, like you, I and many others have read—he wasn’t feeling anything if barely for Karel. Sasya, himself, insisted that kindness is NOT free based on his OWN experiences and his mother. But his perception turned out to be flawed; equally doesn’t mean that because of trauma his reasoning should be diminished. Later on goes to think, “I wish… this man would take me with him.” Knowing that “kindness is not free” but is willing to be taken away by him and knowingly that Karel craves for a strong intimate connection. Besides, there has been plenty warnings given by Julian; Sasya dismissed how steep his obsession was for his own personal greed and ponders how to go about it—not long after wonders whether he’s being loved. Then goes back to thinking “Too much and he’ll tire easily. But too little and he might explode.” Now w hen Karel went a bit “too far” he slapped him. This was yet again, another warning he dismissed in the end. If you love someone, you don’t think about that and let the course flow. Like I’ve said and surely from a physiological standpoint, overcoming adversities like traumas follow from negative experiences. It teaches you to not do it again, raise awareness of something or at least be cautious about or of something. At this point in time, Sasya already knows that Karel doesn’t even want to consider himself one of nobility—by calling himself a mute. This raises another nuance of how Karel perceives and values his life, especially so after forcibly dragging him away from Rambouillet and calling him “his treasure.” Piecing it by together, it’s not hard to see part of the picture that he’s willing to do and go wherever so long there’s a reason for him to do so. While that’s happening, all Sasya thinks about is how he could make up to him and feeling relieved that he STILL likes him—even though he quite literally only feels flattered and has no reason to genuinely love him, yet. Still, Sasya decides to go through because he’s anxious, he wants to assurance and security: “I want him to want me. More for longer..” Sasya drunk himself to a state of intoxication while retaining some sense of rationality. And before all that he still came onto Karel—when Karel told him to call it a day after a long night. Karel was aware that he was drunk and decided NOT to touch him. At that point, he knew Sasya did not like foreplay and probably sex as well. How do I come to that conclusion? Because he still had the chance to still say no and scoot away before penetration. There was no great communication from BOTH sides. However, it was ultimately Sasya’s decision.

Also, let me get this straight, I DO understand Sasya’s decision to leach to survive, but his execution was just wrong like I’ve said before; and Julian falls part to blame. But I’m not going into that. Sasya quite literally went from, I will get a job, to I’m making sure he’s not losing interest in me, in a snap. Throughout this WHOLE journey, Sasya grew observant and could already see how SEVERE it was for someone who wasn’t his lover. If you really have self-respect, you just don’t have sex with that person where mutual interest isn’t present. Even Karel questioned WHY he isn’t pushing him away and now continues to live within his fantasies because of Sasya. All what I have said were all iterations from none other than Sasya himself.

Anyways, I’m not going further into this, as I don’t think you’re understanding my pointers. There’s no use in bickering back and forth, if all you consume is to intend on weighing and comparing things that were never the focal point of the issue. I am regurgitating and it starts to feel redundant, for me too as I’m tired of explaining. I feel at least solace knowing that there’s some part of you that knows that Sasya didn’t do everything right.

SInce I can’t edit.

EVEN if you haven’t seen his pov yet; and there’s quite no need [for his pov] to establish an opinion on something.

Don’t worry, I’m not willing to continue participating in this discussion anymore either as you’ve clearly very much remained biased to your own opinions and refuse to take in what is factual without letting your judgement warp you. “if all you consume is to intend on weighing and comparing things that were never the focal point of the issue. I am regurgitating and it starts to feel redundant, for me too as I’m tired of explaining.”—the feeling is mutual. You twist and turn arguments to your own convenience and judge on what’s moral or not whilst completely ignoring whats morally incorrect on other characters to benefit your own viewpoint. Have a good day.

I already said Karel was obsessed, once again, you’re not reading. It’s fine. You can say all you want, but so have you been—not truly acknowledging what went wrong in the first place—and just shrug it off with “not the worst compared to X, Y, Z / the mere beginning” and unable to make “logical choices” following from a traumatic experience and childhood. I don’t downplay trauma and upbringing factors, but that doesn’t add up to this particular behavior and most certainly doesn’t eliminate guilt in such a voluntary act. Imagine talking about morals and reasoning, but keeps defending WHILE not realizing they’re defending the character that has violated morals beyond reasoning. Don’t even get me started on you contradicting yourself, yet again, and talk as if nothing happened—completely ignoring the situation; the given context handed before your eyes; but twist it ultimately to gaslight yourself to believe your own delusional argument: that Sasya never had a choice in the matter and was forced to act a certain way, Whatever, I’m done. Keep day dreaming, fellow stranger.

Weren’t you done with the conversation? Go back to being Ms./Mr. perfect since you think you live in a delusional perfect world in which everyone is beneath you. Funny how you deflect all that you’ve done with your half-assed arguments onto me. Hope life doesn’t hit you like a bullet train to pop that perfect egocentric bubble you so awfully wish to remain in.

That doesn’t mean that I can’t reply back? Sorry to burst your bubble, but that possibility is always open in public forums. Don’t worry, Ms. / Mrs. Mary Sue, I don’t live in your delusional world; where lacking the capacity to remain objective in the slightest is improbable by projecting your reaching and hypocritical views; to uphold your pretentious double standard. You don’t have to worry about me, instead worry about keeping your eyes on the road, and make sure not to cause an accident, okay? You’ll be doing everyone a favor for not being distracted, and actually pay attention to the traffic on the road, as you should. Now, please be on your way, thanks.

Actually, the moment you refused to continue with the discussion and I refused to participate any longer, the conversation was over. You decided to open it back up because you cannot possibly not have the last word, like you’ve done throughout this thread so far. Again, quit projecting. The only person who’s been biased during this whole thread has been you. Not once to anyone here did you admit Karel’s wrongdoing until after I called you out on it and even then you still downplayed it. You downplay trauma, you downplay Karel’s obsession and the consequences of such, you downplay abuse, I guess that’s all you know to do. No, wait, I guess you know how to be a comedian now too. I’m in the least worried about you darling, I’ve got my own life to deal with, unlike you who must have such a miserable life you’ve got to express your superiority complex even online. Tadaloo

Superiority complex? Pfft. Sounds like one of your other problems—misdiagnosing. You’re clearly projecting again and reaching with your half-wit conclusion. Called me out on Karel’s wrongdoing? No, you dimwit, that was not the point; just like that, you keep missing the point. Don’t even talk about downplaying, when contradicting yourself is all you ever do; like an infallible hypocrite that doesn’t know their shameless bounds. You feign literacy, but you’re actually just impassively incompetent—just the very reflection of what your pernicious life has taken you. What pleasure do I owe having you here? Go back to work on the life you hope to reach, and hopefully don’t miss those opportunities, if that’s even worth dealing with. Bye.

That really struck a nerve, didn’t it? To quote your own words “Can’t say shit, so they use underhanded tactics like insulting—” go back to reading whatever other comic to unreasonably hate on more characters and make half assed arguments to feed your ego.

Tattle tale crying back to your mom after igniting a fight? Lacking brain power, again? Searching for validation after invalidating their ticket; same feather’s truly flock together.

I only hate, when hate is deserved; unlike you who feigns ignorance and glares at the obvious. And actually, it didn’t struck anything; I just defined who you were. Have a problem with that? Then, take a greater look at yourself; can’t see? Something must be wrong with your eyes, but I’ve known that already from such little encounter. But if it does you good, then okay it struck lmfao. Have fun throwing a pity party for yourself.

Love how you just proved me right, now as well as before. What is it that you said I did, misdiagnose? No, I clearly said the right thing. You have such a superiority complex you can’t even see that you’re just as ignorant and ludicrous as you claim the rest of us to be. I mean, just look at your responses for dear sake, a first grader could have said more intellectual things. Thinking your words have meaning enough that they could define me or anyone else here. How preposterous of you to assume you have such influence.

How preposterous of you to assume that you have such authority to make me feel what? It’s baffling to me that you’re delusional enough, once again, to think you’re proving something. Keep talking and deluding yourself into what I think of you, when for one you can’t read properly. That same first grader could possibly even do much better of job than you could ever do. Don’t even bother comparing. It’s embarrassing to throw jabs that’s not befitting of your own stature. And by the way, I thought you were about to resume your “own life to deal with, unlike you […].” It seems that you don’t have a life at all, now, there’s no shame in admitting or too shy? What do we have here, a cunning pathological liar that has nothing to lose at this point?

“What do we have here, a cunning pathological liar that has nothing to lose at this point?” What a wonderful way of describing yourself, though I wouldn’t have been so crude in my delivery. Do you lack comprehension and is that the reason you can only spew out such nonsense in an attempt to insult me? Get a hobby or something, clearly you’re bored out of your mind which is why you keep trying to “throw jabs”, as you said.

It was rhetorical question, haven’t figured that out? I would have expecting nothing less from the likes of you. And nope, just like I’ve mentioned before—it’s you who needs to check your vision and reading comprehension. It’s totally lacking and you keep misconstruing right what’s being spoon-fed before you. Don’t even bring up morals and reason that you’ve thrown that right out of the window from the get-go. Another thing you don’t seem to understand; clearly you have so much to deal with in your life, but actually there’s just nothing to fulfill in your life, and it shows. That’s exacting the preposition from a pathological liar. Understand concepts and nuances before you even attempt to throw vain comebacks for all it’s worth, nothing. Surely, an infant like you doesn’t know what crude is yet. Keep dismissing and remain in denial for the rest of your living reality. Hypocrite.

Actually, I’ll do you a huge honor and praise you for your very first victory, Mrs. Mary Sue. Now, you can have the last say you wish so much to take away from my superior complex and don’t have hide from your pathetic lies anymore! In before you tell me that I’m not qualified whatever, none of that is applicable and you know it~ Go explore your non-existent hobbies and life that you keep telling others to have~~~

Lmaooo the fact that you’ve remained so butthurt throughout this whole ordeal is hilarious. I was already done with the conversation but thank you for affirming once more that you were never capable of holding a decent discussion, whether it was about the story or else. Calling me a hypocrite when that’s all you have been this entire time, like when you told my peers that they lack comprehension and therefore resorted to using underhanded tactics like insults because “they don’t have shit to say” and wrongfully called them fickle to emphasize that they “have shallow personalities”, yet that’s just you, isn’t it? Assuming I don’t know my vocabulary when the one who’s been misusing words was you, both with the word fickle as well as extort—which you never even bothered to elaborate on because you lacked the comprehension of what you even tried to say, and many others. You see big words and throw them around senselessly to make yourself feel mightier but deep down you’re probably just a neglected little kid who must seek validation under whichever means necessary. Come talk to me when you’ve gained some maturity. This will be my last response to you as I have no intention on wasting any more time providing you with the validation your parents should’ve given you. Whether you find yourself a victor or not is besides me, never did I enter this joke of a discussion seeking “victory” but you’d probably never understand that. I know this may have been the most exciting couple of days in your life but now I must bid you adieu. Tadaloo, don’t miss me too much darling.

I know right （/TДT)/