I’m asking you to use your empathy.
“Betray yourself” yesss yesss guys when victims of abuse don’t stand up to their abusers we should tell them how they’ve betrayed themselves instead of putting the blame on their abusers who have probably worn down their sense of self so much they lost the ability to stand up for themselves altogether this is a tried and true method of helping people out. We should tell them that after months, maybe even years, of them trying to stand up for themselves, and nothing coming of it, that it’s their fault for giving up, that they’ve betrayed themselves for giving up and learning, like the human brain is built to do, that the thing they are doing doesn’t bare results but only pain. Please please please think about what you are saying. I’m so serious.
Like dude yes I get what you’re saying and it’s not necessarily wrong but at the same time it completely misses the point. It fails to take literally anything else into consideration. I’m begging you.
AGAIN... I never said that he had good choices. So, I don't know where you getting that from. But what I'm saying is no matter the consequences he still has a choice. So, please don't misunderstand me. Because I'm not saying that he should let himself become homeless and all those things. He should of course do anything he can to keep himself from that fate. But if he really doesn't want to do all those things with Jaekyung, he shouldn't.
That's all I'm saying.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I didn't mean it like that at all. You're just twisting my words to your liking.
I’m not saying you’re saying that they’re good choices—I’m saying that he does not realistically, actually have a choice, when his two choices are starve to death on the streets, or do sex work.
What is the point in saying something so obvious, then? Of course he shouldn’t. Even he knows he shouldn’t and he doesn’t want to. But he has to. That’s the whole premise of this webtoon. What is the point in you saying and reiterating that he shouldn’t when you offer no alternatives? That’s the thing I’m getting at. When you say that he has a choice in these circumstances and you double and triple down on saying that he just shouldn’t have signed the contract with Jaekyung, you are implicitly saying that there is an alternative. You are saying that there is a better choice that Dan could’ve made, and that he did not make that choice. Does that make sense? Because there’s no other point in saying that if you can’t offer any better alternatives, if you know that the alternatives are in their own ways just as bad if not worse.
Then what do you mean when you say these things! What is the meaning you are trying to communicate! What is the point!
It's probably because I'm not good at explaining things. But I'll give it another try. When I say "betraying yourself" I mean that when you don't say no and don't stand up for yourself you feel really bad mentally, you feel disgusting, because what you just agreed to goes against your own morals and wishes. You literally feel like shit.
Hope that helps...
That makes sense and I agree it can feel really bad when you don’t stand up for yourself, especially when you really want to and you know you should. And I will never say that it’s a bad thing to tell people to stand up for themselves. But it’s like—there’s a time and place for everything, and there’s also proper ways of framing things.
The reason why I brought up the abuse thing is because like, yeah man—imagine you ARE a victim of abuse. You probably already feel horrible mentally and emotionally just from the things your abuser has been saying and/or doing to you, even as you’ve tried to fight against them. Do you think that thinking to yourself, if/when you eventually give up, something like “I’m betraying myself” would make you feel better? Or would it make you feel worse? Wouldn’t you blame yourself more? Or feel like you deserve what’s happening to you, because you aren’t doing enough? Even though the abuse isn’t your fault regardless of if you’re standing up to it or not?
Imagine someone came up to you and said “I’m really sorry that’s happening to you, but you need to stand up for yourself, you’re betraying yourself!” They might be right—but wouldn’t you feel worse? Wouldn’t you feel like they’re not understanding all the shit you’re going through and have went through when they say something like that?
Wouldn’t it be slightly more compassionate and empowering to say, “Something horrible is happening to me and it isn’t my fault, I deserve better”?
Yes what you're saying is correct. I agree with you completely. But I'm not saying that you literally should think that you're betraying yourself, and you don't really think that way when you're right there in the moment anyway. I just call it that way because you betray yourself in that sense that you go against your own morals and wishes. So, it's just the way I like to phrase it, I guess.
And, of course I wouldn't tell someone to stand up for themselves and that they are betraying themselves, because just like you're saying; it's totally wrong.
Okay, I see. I’m sorry if I was taking you too literally, I’m admittedly sensitive to the type of language we use to talk about things. I think it’s really important, you know? To try to say the right thing—that’s one of the only ways people can understand you.
But okay—why can’t we say the same thing for Dan? Yeah he could do something different, but even you haven’t offered any better alternatives. And I wouldn’t know what to do in his situation, either. Get a fourth job? Let my grandma die? Sell the apartment? Seek some kind of financial aid that might put me further in debt? We both know Jaekyung doesn’t have to be doing anything that he’s doing and that he’s being horrible to Dan for no real reason, right? His jinx doesn’t justify all of this, right? Money doesn’t justify all this, right? Why can’t we look at Dan and say, something really horrible is happening to him, it’s not his fault, and he deserves better? What is the point in saying he has a choice, that he agreed to something he shouldn’t when he hardly has any better alternatives? When he’s already suffering so much at Jaekyung’s hands?
God you’re dumb. lol he isn’t enslaved you psycho.
His deal was that he gets paid a RIDICULOUS amount of money to be his 1. PT and 2. Be Fed whenever and WHEREVER J asked. What part of this is screaming slavery you moron
Before anything else: did you read my conversation with the other person in this thread? And I’ll just throw out there that Jaekyung said “I just bought you with cold hard cash” after paying off Dan’s debt, which sounds a lot like something a slave owner would say about someone they think is their property. Hmm and I do remember that enslaved people cost quite a lot and could be traded for all types of goods. But eh, what do I know! Maybe that’s a normal thing you say to someone you’re doing a nice little favor for and not someone you see as an object!
You retain the right to say no to something even if you’re under contract. That’s a basic human right. My job cannot force me to come into work if I don’t want to work. They can refuse to pay me, they can fire me, they can even pursue legal action. They can’t come physically force me to go into my place of work and do the work there. At that point they are in the wrong and in many places, doing so would be outright illegal.
Dan retains the right to say no to something even under contract. Part of Dan’s work is sex work—the act of having sex. If Dan refuses to work, AKA have sex, Jaekyung has every right to refuse to pay him or nullify their contract. He can’t force him to work, which in this case would be having sex with Dan. That is then rape, because Dan is no longer in agreement and not consenting.
Any contract that waives away your right to say no is a slave contract. Their contract isn’t in and of itself a slave contract (well, debatable) but when you guys argue that Jaekyung isn’t raping Dan or that because Dan agreed to the contract it means he can no longer say no to anything that’s done to him, you are saying that Dan no longer has rights or autonomy. That’s slavery.
Me when I’m definitely not a slavery apologist: but some of the slave owners were really nice! They put a roof over their slaves’ heads and gave them food and clothes! Being owned was good for them!
hmmm… https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery
HMMM…………. https://www.britannica.com/topic/sex-slavery
HMMMMMMM…………….. yeah no commonalities with what is depicted in this webtoon at all!
If Dan had no choice, how is any of that Jaekyung’s fault? Jaekyung has asked Dan to leave twice and as we've all read, he still stayed requesting to get more cash at the spice of it all. He might've hated the sex they had at the beginning but he still approved of it. You say it's dehumanizing but the same person still decided to put their self in that situation.
The same exact situation of what’s happening to Dan is exactly what happens in companies. You dare not go against the contract that you signed, that would be a resounding fail on your path which you would need to pay for.
If he's really a slave, then how do you explain the free food? The hospitality? Freedom of movement? It's time you get your head back in the game and stop putting over-exaggerated names to minor things.
If he's really a slave then howw could he leave at the ending of the season???
Y'all are doing as if Jaekyung never planned on replacing Dan many times. At the beginning of their supposed contract, he was ready to replace Dan but of course, Dan stopped him. Another time was with the toy, and then one time with the March against that asshole.
Jaekyung is an asshole but I just don't see what he did as rape.
Ngl but this thread section was longer than the manhwa itself...idk what is going on but i hope we got our final destination? But indeed people should agree that put fictional into the place of fictional..and only read what you can digest...why fight over some fictional story
Didn’t say it’s Jaekyung fault that Dan doesn’t have many/if any good options, I’m saying it’s his fault for deliberately choosing to exploit Dan. Next question.
A company can’t force me to work. If they do they’d be wrong. They can sue me for breaking contract. Next question.
1. The art is GORGEOUS ( huge improvement from BL Alex)
2. Dan signed up for this.
You hate to see it but stuff like this happens in real life. It’s called being a sugar bb. Dan knew what he was getting himself into. He made a deal for MONEY no where in their contract did it say J has to be kind and loving. ( Obviously I want that and I wanna see him grovel ) but you guys forget yourselves. He is a big time athlete with an ego and money to burn. Dan is poor and in need of money. In fact are we just going forget that J paid off dans grandmothers hospital bills? For no add on or extra requirements from Dan? Did you also forget the part where Dan asked for MORE money a month and J said sure but in turn he wanted have Dan whenever and wherever and Dan AGREED? A deal is a deal. Is J a piece of poo? Yes. Is this story meant to get us riled up for him to have some crazy redemption arch? YES. If you hate reading it, then quit. Tired of you fools yapping and not understanding how things work. Pipe down and enjoy the BL or leave and quit hate reader.