Amberwaves's Topics (354)

lmaoo i agree

That's true. Even if I'd rather not have anything to do with with people, I would still want to save them. I'd rather face the pain of getting bullied. It's my conscience screaming.
And yes, those girls are nuts. I don't get this school.

Uh, Wtlef? You're blaming the victim rather than the effing rapists, sweetcheeks. Sick. I've been bullied. If a person was about to be raped, I would save them, but I know not every bullying victim CAN do that. Guess I just have compassion...? I bet if someone was NOT a victim of bullying and tried to stop the rape then were bullied because of it, you'd blame THEM for putting themselves in the position of being bullied. Yuck. In fact I can kinda see you doing that, already. After all, the other boys, such as Munechika, are aware of the girls' viciousness yet you aren't saying anything about them coming to Mizutani's rescue. Oops?

The only self-centred ones I see, here, are the girls who'd want to rape someone, Seriha and people like YOU. Sad enough that I have to see them in real life as well as fiction, but also, here, online? Sucks to be me I guess.

And, btw, I have news for you, naive sweetcheeks. Amanda Todd and Rehtaeh Parsons killed themselves because of BULLYING not because their sexual rights were violated. Oops, again?

Finally, it's sad that you people can't even keep your stories straight. You say that she did nothing but then another poster then goes on to blame her precisely BECAUSE she did something. It's almost as if I were right.... You people are like fictional characters such as Seriha, damning others if they do AND if they don't. Again, very sick. Ktbn.

I just don't know where to begin. First I most certainly was bullied as a child. So harshly that I had to seek refuge in the principal's office. And yes I hated it, and wouldn't like to be bullied again as I was then, but even as a teen I understood better and grew to hate what bullies did. I would never have stood by and just ignored other people being bullied, never mind raped, even if that meant the spotlight would turn on me. Thankfully I never encountered in any of the schools I was in, neither to myself or others, any actual cases of bullying since. But I wasn't in the US.

Rise most definitely does NOT want to get involved or be known as his GF because of her own self-interest, despite knowing that he will be raped by the other girls if he doesn't have a GF. Her concern is being bullied again while his is being gang raped. Which would you say is worse? So while I do understand her desire not to be bullied as who would wish to be, her attitude is selfish and self-centered because she seems to think that he ought to leave her alone, be gang raped, just so she can avoid being bullied. Even though this time Rise wouldn't be facing it alone, which you should know helps a lot.

My problem with this story was manifold. The unlikely unbelievable premise was first and foremost. But also an unsympathetic MC, who despite knowing full well what was going on and what would happen to the guy but only cared about herself. And even when she starts "caring" about him it's still in a very self-centered way. All along I felt that Rise lacked empathy. I would have understood and liked it better if the character had been more nuanced, someone who did agree to the plan, and without the resentment, but with the obvious fears that Rise has. It was going to be bad for her.

Having bad things happen to you in the past, and fearing that bad things might happen again shouldn't stop us from doing what is right. Or the bad guys win.

And just because I don't approve of Rise's attitude doesn't automatically equate me with the girls who would gang rape guys. That is plain NASTY and DISGUSTING! And I think you owe me an apology for making any kind of suggestion of the sort.

The problem is that whilst he’s sincere about apologising, he’s clearly still selfish and immature. All his actions that are considered selfless (such as waiting for a long time for her) are actually quite selfish. There were more about getting closer to her and less about helping her move on. Whilst he showed concern about her wellbeing (such as waiting for her at the station in chapter 3 because he’s worried that she may have gotten into an incident) it’s only when he is not the one who caused the suffering.
He acted taken aback when the subject of what he put her through was brought up, as if there’s something wrong with her if she didn’t forget her trauma in a split second.
At no point did he did anything that shows that he’s at least trying comprehending what she had gone through. The closest thing he did to that was in Chapter 2 when he said that he is sorry of what she had to go through and he will make it up to her. It was said in an insincere manner and again it’s done mainly to further their relationship rather than any reconciliation.
Essentially, he was still belittling her trauma (until end of chapter 4/start of chapter 5, after she ranted at him) and he never properly apologised in the first place. He changed, but not to the extent that he truly understood what he did, so it can be argued that his change was not good enough.
I hate the fact that she was trying to get revenge (although I’m not angry at her because I sympathize with her) but I think it’s important to call him out on all the things mentioned above. Basically, it would be better for her to say what she said at the end of chapter 4, to say it at the very start.

Whether or not you consider his apology sincere (and that I think is a matter of subjective interpretation), the fact remains she was still overreacting to something that had happened long in the past. I speak as someone who not only was bullied as a child, but actually did run into the bully as an adult. I can't say it was comfortable, and that person didn't even apologize, but I was aware that we had both grown up and didn't start ranting about the past. All we did was perfectly polite small talk. And if I'm any judge that person had changed a bit since we were children. Did I wish to friends? No, but I was happy leaving it at that. Certainly no big elaborate schemes for revenge. I was quite happy just knowing that I was way past all that, that it really didn't get to me any more, and that I had moved on. Yurina's problem is she is still stuck in the past, in fourth grade and hasn't gotten over something most of us get over when it happens to us. Or at least as she is written.

lmao just because u were bullied and the pereson changed later on, DOES NOT mean that you have to immediately forgive them. You can both still move on and be polite to each other later on, you can even forgive them but its easier said than done and you shouldn't be condemning someone who couldnt easily forgive someone who bullied her and told her to go die.

It doesnt matter how long ago it was done. Or when it was done. The point was this shit still gives her nightmares and even u clearly see it than she is unable to move on (news flash thats what bullying does to most people) - and you blaming her for someonething that was a result of the bullying and then expecting her to just up and forgive the guy is thoughtless of you. You expect her to care more about him than herself.

Heres the bottom line: Its called consequence.

Its the consequences the bullies have to face- whether or not their victim forgives them does not depend on whether or not the bully had later on changed as a person.

^ this does not mean the person has to be condemned for life for their past mistakes but they too should move tf on and accept the consequences of their actions- that is all.


"Forgive and forget" is a nice concept, however it will not work for everyone and every situation and isnt always the most "mature" option. Why? Because the saying "forgive and forget" is frequently used ON victims themselves. Because throwing the responsibility to others is easier than accepting any consequences.

Its the same as "boys will always be boys" mentality. That shit leads to guys getting away with bullying and abuse. Rather than addressing the boys for the behaviour- it is encouraged instead.

Same difference. Rather than having someone accept the consequences of their actions, you are instead encouraging victims to be the ones to forgive and go to lala land and fuck themselves.

There's a difference between forgiveness and just moving on and getting over stuff that happened in the past. I'm not saying she had to like him or be friends with him, but going so far as to want to take revenge that many years later for something that happened in the 4th grade when you're an adult is out of all proportion of reasonable consequences for actions. And I speak as someone who was bullied in the 4th grade. Thoroughly. I did meet one of those who bullied me as an adult, and it was with great satisfaction to see the change in both of us (I had little use for the person but remained polite) and to know my past was firmly in the past.
The only people who still fantasize of giving their childhood bullies "consequences" as adults are those who are still stuck in the past and never let go. Most people do move on and get over it, even if bullying is wrong and shouldn't happen. And possibly end up stronger and more compassionate in the end.
Nor is it the same attitude as "boys will be boys", you are conflating two completely different things. One gives a pass to what would normally be considered a crime by trying to relabel it as simply being the usual things that boys will get up to in their youth. The other covers a broad spectrum of social behavior that can be found in any age group and any part of society in a variety of ways. You can be bullied by co-workers or socially by being shown in subtle ways you don't belong. None of which is a crime. Depending on the situation there are different ways to respond. But not years later. Unlike the first case, since it likely does involve an actual crime.

That may have been their reaction if the bully was just someone they met again later on in passing or even if they had a relationship as simple enough as being coworkers. In this case the bully intended to have a deeper relationship with her.
Thats a bit more complicated because hes asking more from her than had it been, say, just happening to meet each other again and wont have a long-term connection or even if it had later on turned into friendship (which would be a much steadier pace for both parties to connect and understand) vs than reuniting with your victim and immediately wanting to be their lover.

I am not saying revenge was the right course. But her reaction, her being frustrated was understandable when her past bully shows up wanting to be her lover. She did not chose the right method and was as much of a human as he was - made a mistake. She deserves the same amount of understanding as the bully.

Bullying does not always make their victims stronger. And when i was talking about the bullies having consequences i was not relating that to revenge. Rather, that it should have been dealt with earlier on and taken seriously not just between the two involved but by the people around them as well. But instead most are even if not explicitely said or acted out, ignoring and dismissing things like this and focusing more on the victim instead and throwing all responsibility at them as "this will make you grow stronger", "thats just life" etc

Somethings ARE going to be like that. But seeing people ready to jump the gun when a victim doesnt react in the most positive or "acceptable" way and immediately puts that high expectation on them isnt a pretty sight either.

The point was, if you were able to have such understanding of the bully then that same compassion and understanding should be given to the victim too. This work in particular really is not this deep. You disagreeing and not liking her wasnt a big deal - but the generalization and expectation that every one who has been bullied has to immediately move on and implying that if they are unable to it is their fault is the problem. That is the issue.

These things can take time and many trails and error for some. Just because you yourself have been bullied and had reached a positive outcome does not mean that it can be applied to everone. There are so many more circumstances and situations to be taken into account. The reason why i brought the topic of boys will always be boys was just an example of essentially the same concpet - we're always quick to let people get away more than addressing the problem itself, and even more so to defend the bully rather than its victim.

A lot of human behavior is understandable but nonetheless wrong, and no more likable for being comprehensible. I may understand why someone does something without liking it or approving of it. Nor does it automatically follow that I sympathize with bullies or give them a pass. Given my personal history I'm more likely to understand where the victim of bullying is coming from than a former bully. But it is exactly because of my personal history that I KNOW how much both victim and bully can change since the 4th grade, and NOTHING excuses taking revenge on anyone for something that wasn't a crime after all that time as an adult.
If the MC didn't want to go out with him, or have anything to do with him, she should have just told him so, and why. My original complaint was the revenge thing was immature, exactly because she was getting back at someone over something that happened in the 4th grade as an adult. That is petty and childish, and even if I can understand why she may want to, I don't like it one bit or her for making that choice. Of the two, the bully who grew up and gave up being a bully, and the victim who is still stuck in the past enough to take revenge for it so many years later, the FORMER bully came off more likable and mature to me. Not that I like bullies as said, but I credit people for changing.
Sure people are different, but it doesn't always justify the different ways people react to similar situations. Some people will make better choices than others, while some choices will be equally valid. The reason I had a "positive outcome" was because I allowed myself to gain proper perspective on the past, and had other experiences that over time would claim greater emotional immediacy than those of my childhood. So while I remember them, I don't get all emotional about them. In other words, I moved on, as it is healthy and normal to do.

"go down that yaoi rabbit hole"? don't you mean become the hole.
( ° ʖ °)

Not that I didn't realize the pun (?) when I wrote it but I just don't see how someone can become and disappear down yaoi rabbit hole at the same time. So sadly I had to choose. Besides being a hole and a rabbit hole are surely two very different things, and I doubt many semes out there are inclined to jump rabbit holes. But- oh yes he will most definitely become a hole and will have talked himself into it. :)

agreed

You read my mind (u_u)