The only question that stuck, so Beon answered they'll be happy in their own way with a question mark. We're still in that gray area however the picture of Seungho looking over a sad NaKyum sitting on the ground makes me nervous lol
Furthermore if you translate it the answer usually applies to making the most out of a difficult situation. That makes me extra nervous cause it might be implying that NaKyum and Seungho might be stuck with each other. This will either go the Harada route (which, tbh, I wouldn't mind personally) or the rape to love route (yikes I'll drop it if that's the case.)
I wonder if this means they will end up in a stockholm relationship? I mean I want NaKyum to be actually happy but I guess I can prepare myself for that too T-T tho that would be so predictable and like every other yaoi so idk
Byeonduck seems smarter than both of the scenarios you've mentioned and seems to be aware of both possibilities being less than stellar. I think her answer means they will figure out something that is unique to them.
Yea idk Beon so I still am going to consider all possibilities. Let's not act like authors haven't pulled a 180 before. I don't trust yaoi mangakas since their romances rarely make sense at times.
Trust me I want to believe what you're saying but I got trust issues. we'll see what happes I guess lol
Ahahahahhaahhahaha we all have trust issues it's ok they do fuck with us. I'm more interested in her making a modern day or role reversal spin off. Can we get out of this shitty scenario and just see these two happy???? Crying over here
Also I think it's hilarious that she noted people like Seungho are usually in prison haha..... ouch
OMG I didn't see that lol even the author know he trash bruh I can't lmao
Maybe I should have more faith XD
And yes I would love that too since I still find Seungho to be attractive. I would love to see Na get a good consensual dicking down from him. We all know Seungho's hotter when its a mutual fuck ;)
Ikr haahah byeon knows. And yass a good consensual dicking down for Nakyum and Seungho is all I wanna seeeeee
What is harada route pls
The korean movie The King and the Clown. Yoooooooooo this is the fucking manhwa version no WONDER I like this story. AND the movie is gay too w/ a talented prettyboy protagonist being pursued by a selfish and obsessed nobel. Pls watch that movie if you haven't already it's so fucking good. It will tide you over until the next POTN chapter trust me. Anyway,
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Seungho taught Na-kyum how to give proper head and proceeded to shove his dick down Na's throat and told him to swallow or else he'd put it in his ass instead. Y'all usually that type of shite is my jam being into rapeplay and all but because it's not a BDSM scene and Nakyum looks like a helpless child my boner just dies. Which is sort of good because this is suppose to be realistic but it hurts man.
Seungho told Nakyum that he wanted him to look in a mirror and learn his own face. He plans on having Na paint his own sexual assaults. Seungho gave him the mirror to do just that. Dude, that's so fucking cruel to do. That's like recording the rapes and making the victim watch it, no its WORST.
No wonder he broke the mirror after that, almost like a fuck you to Seungho I guess. Seeing him sit in his room crying only to be haunted by that image was heartbreaking. He's starting to lose his mind y'all. He ran cause it was his breaking point, I bet In-sackofperiodblood-hun caught him while he was running off cause he seemed pretty fed up after being told to paint his own goddamn rape. But who knows.
See this is what the Seungho fangirls don't get. People aren't just against Na/ho because they hate Seungho, it's because it's damn near impossible to see Nana suffer that much only to go back to him. I notice that when ppl hope for Seungho to change they don't talk about how Na could possibly come around. How long will it take Na to trust him if ever? Will they ever be able to mutually fuck w/o Na flipping out from the past memories? More importantly, would /you/ forgive Seungho?
I ask that because as readers we're supposed to empathize with the protagonist of the story not the antagonist. Sure it's okay to want to know more about the antagonist and sympathize with their pain but to disregard a man who's been crying and traumatized to fangirl over how "gentle" Seungho is being for doing the barest of minimums is just really baffling to me. It's like people don't care what Nakyum wants and that he deserves better. It's like they don't care about Nakyum at all actually.
I get it, it's partly because he isn't developed and he doesn't have much of a voice and let's be forreal its hard to connect w/ an objectified character. However people act like him and Seungho are just having a bit of a lover's quarrel that can be solved with a personality change and some grovelling. Seungho is determined to stick to his cruel and controlling ways, the more I see the translations the more that is becoming evident.
If and only IF he does change it will take something drastic, someone will get permanently damaged first. Even then it's up to Na to forgive him and tbh he don't owe Seungho shit, not even forgiveness. If he does forgive him he should do it for his own closure (Kind of like the end of The Color Purple). I'm tired of bottoms having to heal shitty tops, why can't the shitty top grow on their own w/o getting what he already feels entitled to? Seungho can't have his cake and eat it too, he doesn't deserve Na's cakes anymore bruh.
Not to mention Nakyum never loved Seungho in the first place, he never wanted anything to do with him. They didn't meet mutually he was hunted down and kidnapped. Seungho was fixated on him in a very unhealthy way from the jump and now he wants Nakyum to immortalize their bond, this dude REALLY reminds me of the king from The King and the Clown a lot I'm telling you. Him wanting paintings of them shows this is a fixation, that this is continuing his obsession which is getting worst because of his new infatuation with Na.
P.S.
Can we accept that ppl have different opinions and stop trying to silence people who don't agree w/ the majority? I mean the ones with the "stop being negative about the story, don't say anything if it ain't positive" attitude who pop up when others criticize the story or just react negatively to things that are bloody meant to be upsetting.
People don't have to shit rainbows for you. Yea it's annoying to see but you think the pro-Seungho pro-romance people don't annoy me? They do. Just thumbs the shit down or disagree if you don't like what the person is saying. You have no right telling someone not to speak just cause you don't like what they're saying. Everyone has a right to their opinion even if it's a shit take in your eyes. Get over yourself.
Holy shite, it does really parallel with each other. Thank you for pointing that out since I love that movie and I seriously recommend people to check it out.
Bruh I was jumping up and down earlier when I finally put my finger on what this manhwa reminds me of lmao. Seungho even has a childishness to him too like the king, it's kinda similar though not as extreme as the king. Like dang are all nobels like that? haha
Now that I think of it maybe that's why it's hard for me to ship Nakyum and Seungho, because it reminds me too much of that movie XD cannot unsee
It is a really good movie though I recommend it to everyone! You have good tastes my friend!
Well said
Dude I was fricking clapping reading this! Rape apologist is the right word! I'm going to be honest for a minute, they remind me of myself when I was younger.
It find that it gets easier to see past looks when you mature and learn to value personality more over a pretty face. I understand to some extent that the art is made to look appealing but ppl damn near cheering on a rapist got me having existential crisis every time I come to this comment section. It's really bizarre if you really think about it.
Real talk tho, we have got to stick together being the minority voice. The only reason I still come back to the comment section is because of people like you who are able to see the story and characters in a multifaceted way<3 so thank you too T-T
I don’t know if I accidentally downvoted. This system kinda stinks. But I agree completely and really appreciated you contributing your two cents. I keep reading this for the beautiful art, and hopefully a Kill Bill-esque revenge arc from Nakyum.
Is for Nakyum to smile again. This nigga been through it, he ain’t smile since like page one.
Pls I just want him happy for one panel. Even if it’s a damn flashback, or just him taking a nap. I’ll take any relief rn
We can always reread chap 7, 10 and 17(before Jihwa gets mad) :3
*lights up and shares some Christmas cookies* thank you!
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I was trying to think of who Seungho reminded me of after he snapped and started beating the shit out of his servants. Bruh reminds me of The Hunchback of Notre Dame when Frollo burnt down the city of Paris looking for Esmeralda. Homeboy probably would've burnt down most of Korea to find Na-kyum whew chile it's scary having a powerful man want you.
I feel like people keep going through hopeful phases of Seungho/Na-kyum developing into an actual mutual romance but then the translations reveal him saying some pretty fucked up things. People are interpreting his actions as passionate like he missed him dearly.
I didn’t get those vibes personally, I got aggression and thirst lol, tho either has potential to be right I guess? But like right before he kissed Na he was choking Na-kyum and intended to beat his ass once again only to be stopped by Inhun’s bitchass trying to pretend to be a mediator. So it seems weird to say something was more romantic about that scene.
Felt more like Seungho reasserting himself after having the shock of his life. He didn’t like Na challenging him like that so this is his way of regaining control. Sure it’s a desperate way to sear himself into Nakyum’s head but
I don’t think it’s affection the way normal people express it. Never will be until he sees Na-Kyum as more than a precious toy. You can genuinely love your toys and get attached but you will never value them like you do humans, they still exist for your pleasure and whims.
This story to me is starting to not fit a tragic end or a romantic one. It just feels too gray right now to determine either. But I’m sorry, in my opinion if your first instinct is to put your hands on someone when they come back after running away from your abuse it doesn’t feel romantic idk, feels possessive.
Ugh. I just keep looking at how this isn’t tagged romance and I’m wondering why. Maybe somehow it could develop into a relationship that’s a complex mix of genuine infatuation and resentment but it’s never going to be healthy. As long as the author makes that clear I might be on board with said development
**Just to clarify I’m not saying I’m right, they wrong. Honestly I’m bias in my own ways and that does color my POV too. I just want Nakyum to be with someone who will love him fully an unconditionally. I don’t see that in Seungho right now. Probably never will.
But Nakyum didn’t ask for love in the first place, his life changed after they found him in the fucking town drunk and passed out. He wasn’t hunting Inhun, he was trying to live a peaceful life. I hope he can go back to that more than him falling inlove
I agree with both of you. I wish Nakyum to get as far away as possible from both those manipulative, self-centered and conceited men. Nothing healthy can come from his relationships right now because they are abusive. I can see the development of a sick attachment from Seunghom to whom he can't subdue and because he witnessed Nakyum's naive and simple love toward someone else. But I hope it desn't end up in stockholm's syndrom
That's a really good point
I see the bright-eyed children have read my post lol
What if this is the start of Na-kyum Survival Mode?
Hear me out:
Inhun’s crusty ass is almost CERTAINLY going to continue to push Na-kyum on Seungho after seeing just how openly desperate Seungho was. I mean the cool-faced top we know just evaporated into this openly emotional (dare I say vulnerable???) person. Again Beon coming with the excellent fucking art, you could feel the frantic need Seungho had to get his hands on Na-Kyum again. Nana is a drug and he’s hooked baby.
Seungho may just have shown his cards to Inhun. Na-kyum is becoming Seungho’s Achilles heel and you best believe Inhun will use that poor child like a tool.
Now this is my theory, Nakyum will comply with his beloved teacher but he’ll have no other choice but to learn to be a bit manipulative himself just to survive Seungho and navigate his chaotic mind. He might even get good at taming Seungho.
But of course dealing w/ all that abuse is bound to make anyone harden and become a little cynical. It’s hard to believe Na won’t become at least a little resentful towards Inhun especially if Inhun continues to show his true self.
Now let’s say Inhun goes too far and they finally have a falling out. Let’s say our little Na has been a bit tainted by too much trauma and being used as a tool. Let’s say his emotions get to him and he suggests something that puts Inhun in danger.
What if he even ends up asking Seungho to hurt Inhun? Or even kill him?
Seems improbable I know but I’m allowed to hope
I’m just so tired of mangas where the abused bottom either ends up in tragedy or forced into an unrealistic romance. I want more bad bitch shit where the bottom actually ends up escaping or exacting revenge. That’s just as interesting tbh why can’t the bottom just fight for some damn independence sometimes?
I would love Na-kyum to have more character development in that direction.
Y’all love to say “it’s just fiction” but there sure nuff are ppl still in the comments rooting for Na Kyum/Seungho to become a legit healthy romantic relationship even tho the author has gone out their way to be realistic.
Hmm I wonder where they might’ve got that idea? What genre is infamous for unrealistically developing romantic and happy relationships after building that relationship on rape and abuse? Hmmmm almost like that genre has influenced ppls POV no?
It’s nothing wrong with telling off ppl who deserve it but let’s not start throwing misinformation around about how society and media influence works. Yes ppl should fuck off if they don’t like realistic rape but you ain’t no better trying to dismiss the idea that fiction can have an impact on ppl.
Jeez the comments were fine, everyone was just chillin then these crusty anti-sjw types come out of nowhere complaining about a non-existent comments n shit
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girl preachhhh
There are plenty of movies, tv shows and books that depict violence and glamorize mental health and violence. I think the matter comes not with the content, but with the immature minds that delve into it.
Education is the key ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
this!!!
Media tends to perpetuate social norms and toxic ideologies. While young people are more susceptible to this it's a dangerous myth to think it doesn't apply to mature and educated minds. We're all subtly influenced by media no matter how young or old,worldly or ignorant. It's about socialization and conditioning too not just maturity.
Media shouldn't just stay the same and trust that everyone will be aware, it has to evolve with the times. As an activist my job is studying social politics (obsessively lol) but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly closed off to influence. Okay cool I can tell when a yaoi rape scene is romanticized that's good but that doesn't change the fact that the scene still shouldn't romanticize rape.
Repetition of a trope will affect your mind on a subconscious level regardless. If yaoi continues the rape to love trope ppl will continue to associate rape with love when they read these stories. It's only when we discard those tropes that we can actually start de-conditioning toxic ideas.
I urge you to check out the youtubers Pop Culture Detective and Renegade Cut. Especially PCD, they talk about the nuances of how media is influenced by preexisting world views and how media in turn perpetuates those world views in the minds of their audience.
This one specifically talks about harmful tropes in romance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWoP8VpbpYI
It's about het romance but lets be forreal yaoi is heteronormative and uses the same tropes and dynamics lol
Yes. When I typed "immature minds', I meant that for everyone, not just teenagers. I'm just taken aback at the idea that some people believe that media always has a negative impact on others. And as a writer, I'm not sure I want a group of people trying to take away someones creative outlet because they believe it hurts society. Violence isn't something the people of today created. Humans have been violent since we began plotting land for crops thousands of years ago. I don't think shielding the eyes of innocents by taking away a piece of violent fiction will help that.
Like I said, education is the key.
"If yaoi continues the rape to love trope, people will continue to associate rape with love when they read these stories" < This is your opinion. It is not a fact. Simply put, you can't speak for every reader. Do I think some of the readers on this site are too young? Maybe so. BUT, if you really want to help people, help them understand what rape truly is in the real world, not in a fictional one, not in something purposefully smutty created for people who understand and enjoy it. Your job as an activist shouldn't be pointing the finger at fictional characters, it's to educate people in the real world who don't understand.
Take away the harmful trope. Sure. Everything will be peachy after that and no one will ever romanticize rape ever again. It's like when sex ed is taken out of schools because adults are afraid that teens will see it as a green light to go ahead and have sex. They're still going to have sex...they'll just know absolutely nothing about their bodies, birth control or STDs ┑(￣Д ￣)┍
Dude seriously. Watch those videos I think my point went right over your head. Perhaps I didn’t explain myself well enough.
You make certain vague/sweeping statements that come across as... confusing.
"Media tends to perpetuate social norms and toxic ideologies. While young people are more susceptible to this it's a dangerous myth to think it doesn't apply to mature and educated minds. We're all subtly influenced by media no matter how young or old, worldly or ignorant. It's about socialization and conditioning too not just maturity."
One of the goals of education is to expose people to other perspectives, and enhance critical thinking. With education, people possess the required braincells and foundation to make judgements; which in this case, allows them to understand that rape IS bad; why it is bad, what constitutes rape etc.
Therefore, they are now equipped with the necessary skills and knowledge to differentiate and analyse negative aspects of certain media, or in this case; 'media' that romanticises rape. That's why, with education, people gain the ability to become self-aware, and see the 'socialised norms' and 'conditioning' in their surrounding environment - and take steps to counter it.
I use 'media' because this is a piece of creative work, and I want to differentiate from media as social media/journalism media, etc. I don't deny that 'media' has an impact on people who are less self-aware. But as Lucy In The Sky says, education is the key.
Creative works can always be used to educate, and there's always something people can learn from it.
Honestly I think both of your arguments are valid but the reality of the situation is somewhere in the middle.
Don't want to get involved tho I just got notifications for this thread and thought I should say this, so I won't say anything further, it's a nice conversation tho :D
"take the steps to counter it" Lucy literally said that they don't think art should be compromised or changed when the audience should just be educated about it. Which led me to think they assumed media doesn't need to change to help solve the problem. That we can still have really problematic things like rape culture in media and expect no one to internalize it if they're educated. My argument is you can still be influenced even with education and that the problem shouldn't be there in the first place to influence young minds.
Deconditioning will never happen if the toxic tropes are in media. Your comment makes sense and I'm not disagreeing. I think you need to read Lucy's statement again because you look kind of stupid right now defending them blindly.
I admit I wish I was more clearly about my point. I never said it was one or the other, I simply said just educating and not changing the status quo isn't enough. I know educating leads to change, my problem w/ Lucy is them saying we shouldn't have to change the art it should be able to exist as long as we know what we're absorbing. That's an unrealistic way of looking at things. I anything they were the one really arguing that its one or the other.
I'm kind of annoyed right now because I knew I could've been clearer but that's why I put the videos there to help clarify my damn point and them niggas clearly didn't even bother to watch it. Ugh, sorry I'm on my period.
When I mentioned "take the steps to counter it"; I was referring to the individual person taking the steps to decondition himself.
The 'problem' with rape culture as you term it is that the men or the women that perpetuate these toxic mindset grow up with the notion that "women" are inferior - they have internalised misogyny.
An analogy if it helps:
What you're saying is similar to how people condemn violent video games for making children violent. If I understand where you're coming from, you believe that violent video games should be entirely removed from the market.
What Lucy is saying that taking away violent video games doesn't make people less violent; saying that (taking away violent video games) is a solution not only doesn't correct the issue, but also creators who make media (art/books/games/etc) are suddenly vilified and have their creative outlets taken away.
I agree that 'rape to love' trope you bring up in your discussion is a terrible thing. It is unrealistic and gives young, impressionable girls the wrong idea. I also agree that toning down on such negative influences - the 'rape to love' trope - is a step in the right direction. However, entirely censoring rape, and pretending that it does not exist in society is also irresponsible. Notice how I differentiate from 'rape to love' and 'rape'?
On a similar note, 13 Reasons Why came under fire for not being responsible about the way it handled the sensitive topic - suicide didn't it?
Here is an article: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/29/18644448/netflix-13-reasons-why-teen-suicide-rates-rise (Which I will summarise the main important points) :
1. Scientists found a 13.3% increase in teenager suicide deaths after the release of the show.
2. However, the study 'does not provide definitive proof' that the show is the direct causation of the rise in suicide rates.
3. Experts worry that at-risk groups (people who might identify with the story) now exposed to such depictions of suicide/suicidal behaviour can be a trigger for possible future instances.
4. Most of the experts quoted in the paper view 13 Reasons Why as a wasted opportunity to educate/spark a conversation about mental health and suicide prevention - instead, the focus became "responsibilities of the entertainment industry in the SAFE portrayal of suicide".
5. Netflix commissioned a study that found out that their audience, after watching, became more aware of the surrounding risk factors, and took steps to educate themselves on suicide prevention, on reaching out for help, etc. A separate, unrelated study revealed that that the show did not increase in thoughts of suicide.
6. In summary, sensitive topics such as suicide, have to be handled responsibly.
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So if 13 Reasons Why did not exist would teenage suicide be eradicated from society, or in any case, lead to a drop? I very much doubt so.
In conclusion, both the creators/audience have parts to play about the 'media' they consume (read/watch/listen) - but 'media' with sensitive topics can be a platform to educate and raise awareness. The issue is how it is done.
Now if I could only write my dissertation like this. LMAO.
This guy is like a psychologist wet dream with his damn personality. I've been really obsessed with studying psychopaths, sociopaths, and narcissists lately because he seemed to be in that realm. The more we find out about him the more I realize he's a narcissist or has narcissistic tendencies.
This video about falling in love with a narc was sooo enlightening I kept thinking about Seungho and poor Na Kyum when she lists the characteristics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLM94DnKkQo
It's a 21 min video but it's super interesting. She talks about being in love w/ a narc in the beginning and is2g the gaslighting and inability to take criticism (like when Seungho went ham after Na Kyum rightfully told him off), the mood swings, the entitlement. Very Seungho. He doesn't fit all the characteristics but he does fit a good amount.
At 7:10 she talks about what causes narcissism usually and how narcs lack the ability to navigate their own emotions. The part I found most interesting was about how parents are a big problem. Narcs tend to have parents who don't emotionally indulge them or who are not very present at all.
We just found out that Seungho's family abandoned him. For all we know he was probably not very nurtured by his parents anyway. He might not know what real attachment feels like so jealousy is probably foreign to him, he lacks emotional intelligence.
Anyways the video explains it way better than me, there were so many moments that made Seungho start to make sense as a character. I suggest watching the whole thing.
*Disclaimer: I'm not saying this excuses anything he does, just think it's fun to explore such a twisted character I guess. Also, this is just a theory about Seungho, not saying he's a textbook narc just very close to one.
I was literally shaking with anger by the end of the chapter. To actually hear him be open about his manipulation knowing Na-kyum will say yes. KNOWING that he was raped and seeing the broken look on his face yet still telling him to endure it, I just--
I never wanted to punch my computer screen so bad, and to think I considered he might change when he found out about the abuse. Gross, I want to throw up in my mouth. I hope Seungho beats the shit out of Inhun and they better show every detail. Too bad Seungho is too busy abusing Na-kyum and Na will keep protecting that sack of dogshit from Seungho's wrath Dnjfhbjdffahbjq I'm so fucking PISSED right now.
This fucking manhwa just ass fucks you with despair. This chapter made me almost cry I felt so hopeless for Na. And yes, Inhun is definitely the worst because he /could/ be that olive branch but his dusty ass is too much of a selfish, heartless prick. Y'all say Seungho is a sociopath, naw son, he's a piece of shit narcissist but he's not as cold and heartless as Inhun.
This is not me defending Seungho either, some of y'all really trying to use Inhun's actions to say "Seungho is better". I totally get seeing him as the lesser devil because he is more upfront with his bullshit but he doesn't deserve Na-kyum either, or are we going to forget Na-kyum's tears were triggered by a flashback of Seungho raping him? The look on his face man....I literally hugged the screen when I saw how torn up Na looked. It was heartbreaking, I will never pretend Nakyum x Seungho is a romantic ship because I can't stop sympathizing with Na and his pain.
Anyways, back to Inhun's BITCHass. He's the true sociopath here. Seungho might be cruel and emotionally starved but I don't believe Inhun is even capable of feeling emotions for others in the first place. Sociopaths tend to see others as nothing but objects, pawns that they can play with. They're also incredibly good at manipulation and are very socially intelligent in that way. I honestly didn't think that he would be a straight up sociopath but here we fucking are.
Na-kyum is in love with a fucking sociopath and being abused by a goddamn narcissist. Beon please stop tearing my heart out my chest I need it to live T-T pls give my baby a break.
God. At this point even the old servant dude is a better match for Na-kyum.
Or just happiness, yea, I ship Na-kyum with happiness the most.