About ch. 6, i haven't seen anyone bring this up so i'd like to say something thats been on my mind. I'm like 99% sure that the Uke was lying about wanting to be exclusive with the other guy, i'm pretty damn sure that the uke was trying to make the seme jealous and was going to give up and just be with the other guy when the seme didn't seem to react only to see the seme going exclusive with some women which drove him nuts because its what HE wanted from their relationship. I think they're in love and will eventually end up together, its a shame that they're going to hurt to innocent bystanders in the process though. The instances in the manga that make me think so are the scene when Kaga's drunk and his (then future) girlfriend confesses to him where he says he feels depressed after realizing he was "a little fond of him" and the whole scene where the uke seduces Kaga after they're both in their respective relationships.
I'm not as certain as you are about their being in love. I do think they liked each other enough, but to the extent of calling it love, I am not sure. It's definitely plausible but I wanted to bring up this other possibility.
I think ch. 6 was less about love than being partners in crime. From the start, the two make it clear that they're people with loose morals and innocence is associated with bad sex skills. The uke says "You wouldn't understand, Kaga-san [...] This kind of pure feeling", to which Kaga-san replies "Like you can say that. Seriously!". They are both impure, and they both know it.
When they meet up by coincidence, the uke says "To think I'd meet you in such a normal place!" is again reinforcing the idea of abnormal vs normal. They're abnormal beings roaming in the territory of the normal, and it's especially true in the uke's mind. He really believes the seme is the same as him and is constantly testing it:
"If you have some time, how about we do it?" - although they met up in a "normal place", the uke won't let the seme be normal. And when the seme says he already has plans, the uke still wants to confirm that he's the same sleazy no-good Kaga-san: "Is it the usual married girl?". It's only after that "test" that the uke reveals he was on his way to a date, which makes Kaga-san wonder why he'd even ask him out.
His asking Kaga-san to put marks on him is a test on his official boyfriend, but it's also a way to keep Kaga-san on the guilty side, by making him actively participate in the cheating.
When they bump into each other again, it's the same location as the first time. I might be pushing things but this can be read as a sign that, deeper inside, both of them have not changed. And the uke really cannot accept the idea of a Kaga-san that is different and no longer impure. He notices for the first time that Kaga-san is honestly trying to fall in love seriously, something he previously thought was impossible, and that upsets him: it doesn't suit Kaga-san, it's disappointing, the uke really doesn't want to see that happening. When they're doing it after the uke's successful attempt at seducing Kaga-san, everything he says is him pointing out that Kaga-san is still no good: "Huhh, six years younger? Really? Fufu" (which parallels the "Don't play too much with youngsters" from earlier), and "She must be [cute]. You've always been about the face after all", implying the seme didn't genuinely fall for his girlfriend. And then there's the "You don't have sex that much?" and "You're still amazing, Kaga-san", which reads to me as "even though you were in a serious/pure relationship, you're still the impure Kaga-san" as purity is associated to bad sex. Finally, the line that needs no explanation: "I'm relieved to see you're still the same good for nothing, Kaga-san."
I'd also like to point out the title, "Fellow Traveler". According to Wikipedia, the term "identifies a person who is intellectually sympathetic to the ideology of a political organization, and who co-operates in the organization's politics, without being a formal member of that organization". The Japanese title, "道連れ" (michizure) can be translated directly as "fellow traveler", or "someone unwillingly made to take part, being made to take part in something". http://jlearn.net/Dictionary/Browse/1454280-michizure-%E3%81%BF%E3%81%A1%E3%81%A5%E3%82%8C-%E9%81%93%E9%80%A3%E3%82%8C
I think it's a particularly telling title; more than lovers, they are partners in crime.
This is a good theory and you do bring up some good points here with the parallels and the hidden intonations. Personally, i still stick with my own theory (sorry, there just wasn't really enough here to sway me : / ) but you clearly put a lot of thought into this and it is definitely a possibility. To me, the fact that the uke was so willing to have sex with kaga at any point in the story is proof that he was never really invested in his new seme and if he wasn't invested in him then why would he talk to kaga WHILE having sex about another guy that he is supposedly getting serious with... to me this is clearly him trying to make kaga jealous, but kagas dense. It really seems evident to me that kaga's dense when he says the whole "i'm gonna miss him" line when he's drunk, but doesn't acknowledge or realize he has some kind of special feelings for him. Hell, the fact that he has sex with him even after having gotten into what he himself views as a serious relationship points towards him having feelings for the uke, but i guess it's all up to interpretation. Neither one of us has been proven right or wrong and both are definitely a possibility.
Oh I definitely didn't intend to prove you wrong or anything! I just wanted to point out my thoughts but I think you are just as right as I am, and tbh both theories aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sorry if my tone was aggressive;; It's the effect of having too many papers to write for school-- (hesitation doesn't sound too good in academic papers)
I totally agree about the opening being about making Kaga jealous by mentioning the other guy while they've having sex. The only reason why I didn't take that as the uke being in love for sure is because to me, it doesn't have to be about love? And same for Kaga giving in at the end (I guess this is really a personal opinion because I'm basing this off... personal experience...... *sweats*)
But this exchange has been fun to me! Thank you for actually reading and answering my long wall of text!
Oh you're fine, (づ￣ ³￣)づ I didn't feel attacked or anything, i was just responding to your response. I really did like your theory and did think that you put thought into it which is why i said so. (⌒▽⌒) You're exactly right on what you said in that these are both just possibilities based solely on our own interpretations of what happened which was what i was actually trying to say as well in my previous response when i said "these are both possibilities and neither of us has been proven wrong or right", if any of my response came across bitchy or confrontational/defensive it wasn't intended to; it can be hard to communicate through text. ╮(￣▽￣)╭ I was essentially saying "great response, i like your theory and while you DO make some great points that i'm not sure i could even debate without proper time, i'd like to respectfully stick with my own theory and keep yours in mind. When i made my own theory it was like a crap ton of blocks fell into place for me, i had been confused as to why the uke acted the way he does and when i realized that it could be because he was acting the way he does intentionally and looked back on the instances that confused me they were easily explained by the idea that the uke was actually in love with the seme and trying to manipulate him." The seme reciprocating this love was kinda a side point to the theory based solely on the drunk scene and can be interpreted as mere fondness, i just like to look further into it.
I think he's just a prick, lol.
yes, i believe he's definitely a prick as well, i also believe that the uke was the first person he started to build an attachment to as well though.
If you meant the uke, then i suppose it's possible he's just a prick, but whats the fun in theorizing if going with such a simple solution?
-that scene where he takes off the uke's handcuffs and replaces it with rope because their wrists were a little hurt- #relationship goals If you can't tell, i'm joking. Though i did think it was adorable in a twisted way. I'm so excited for the next chapter, can't wait.
I like that he's on bottom, i love it when the uke is the taller/manly type. I also love it when the couple looks like they could go seke at any time, so i love that while the seme looks like the uke in their relationship he's also not girly. Two masculine men who can fuck and look good taking either position, though i do personally like that the taller of the two is on bottom.
i also love when the 'uke like seme' rather than girlish look uke (most manga, the uke looks like a girl / feminin face)... But not really like seke, but might considered it...
yeah, i prefer established roles as well. I didn't say i liked seke, its just that most seke couples are both masculine which is what i like, that's why i said "i like it when they look like they could go seke at any time". Seke's not so bad though, it's interesting seeing them switch since one'll top and look to be the seme, but will then later be teased and topped.
Cliche AF. When the first thing i saw was the tried and true 'author sexually harassing his attendant' plot i decided not to read this. Maybe that's a little harsh, but i just really immediately got turned off. It was only made worse by the whole "i'm not gay i just insert vibrators into my ass on command.", I bet they'll try to turn him into a blushing confused uke later despite him already having put a vibrator up his ass for another guy... i'm not even in the mood to deal with the silliness that is apparent in this. Maybe it'll be someone else's cup of tea, but i'll pass.
Go write one yourself then. #－.－)
I'm sorry if i was rude to the mangaka, i just couldn't really leave any other thoughts... Good for them for getting one out there, but i reserve my right to say i don't like it.
not every manga is likeable to everyone and if there is something that I don't like I don't see why I can't write it without get answers like yours every time. Sorry but she/he wasn't even rude, it's just her/his opinion. I don't get your comment, instead :/, let's respect others' tastes without being polemic
True, I appreciated reading yours. Thank you.
You to (⌒▽⌒)
Don't get me wrong, the manga is okay so far, i'm enjoying it. I'm probably going to get quite a few dislikes for saying this, but am i the only one irritated on the uke's behalf? He clearly doesn't want to be a part of all this, but is basically being forced into it. it's supposed to be okay because they laugh it off and smile like it's a joke, but i honestly don't feel like it's okay... No one should have to do a job like that if they're uncomfortable. He's a homophobe being forced into voice acting a gay man, that's not really okay, especially since he didn't want to do it. The BI guy and the boss are really pushy and it's supposed to be brushed off with them smiling and joking about it, but it's really annoying and i feel like they just completely disregard the uke's feelings. Btw, i'm a gay man and even i find this to be too much. I even feel like the 'waking up next to each other' scene is a little disturbing, the uke is obviously shaken, but rather than explain anything the BI guy just tries to act all cutsie and joke around saying "remember it on your own" and i'm all like: "stop joking around bitch! he's seriously freaking out about this! this isn't the type of scene you're trying to make it out to be, its not some 'look what we got ourselves into~' scene, it's him freaking out and you acting like a jackass." He feels violated and you're making it out to be funny! I'll keep reading, but i don't know how long if this is how it's going to be...
I wouldn't think you deserve any dislikes for stating your honest opinion~
Yeah I'm still debating if I want to continue. I hate when their forced or cornered. Like not cool not cool. I literally was like at the end of the chapter "the crap."
I waver on it.
He's a voice actor and well actors have contracts.
He could sue and try to show proof he was unable to consent to it but it would probably ruin his career to do so because of the bad publicity along with the time and money to fight it.
It's just easier to give in. But he has the right to bitch about it.
I don't think he's a homophobe...I think he's DEEPLY in the closet because of WHOM he's attracted to and he's shy, embarrassed, and has self-hatred. He's a tsundere.
Which is why they are laughing at him even when he says homophobic things because they know he doesn't mean it.
The bed thing was creepy...but if you both collapse drunk in the bed...? The other guy was being an ass but I think he might have cause to be one.
He's got a crush on the mc. The mc is a tsundere who has probably been avoiding him and saying shit about him...and something happened when he got drunk.
Maybe not sex, but I definitely expect kissing to happen since they got him roped into doing the BL part. Hell, maybe he came out to them?
When I'm reading the first two chapter, i was feeling something feel a bit off. Now i know what it is, thank you!
agreed.
I'll have to keep reading to see if he's actually tsundere or not. If he IS just tsundere and he doesn't ACTUALLY hate it, then it won't be a problem, but i honestly don't think he wants any of this... I don't think he IS tsundere. What i think is going to happen is that he's going to be forced into doing something he doesn't want to do and then he's going to fall for the seme while voice acting the gay guy, which won't make what happened ok...
I could be wrong. It's just he gives off the embarrassed 'I don't want to do this/I don't want to like him'' vs the 'fuck this shit I really don't want to do this and I hate you all' type of feeling to me.
You could also be right, only time will tell.
Huh, latest chapters seem to show I'm right.
He's just a tsundere all embarrassed about his feelings and so forth. I wonder what happened after they hooked up years ago. Did he just run away out of embarrassment? Or did he get his heart broken in some way?
I-I'm sorry... what? How did any of that point towards him being tsundere? if anything those chapters just proved ME right... Its exactly as i said, he has literally NO interest in the Bi guy and is just being swept along which as i said doesn't make anything okay. What do you mean about that having "hooked up in the past"? It doesn't show anything like that. To show respect for your theory on him being a tsundere i'll give reasons as to why i can't understand how you got "tsundere" out of that instead of just saying you're wrong. I'll list various points in the released chapters that show what i mean:
ch 3 page 26 "my life really sucks!"-he's not happy AT ALL about living with the Bi guy. ch 4 page 7 Bi guy: "we already slept together." Uke: "It was against my will." This alone should be enough to show you that he wasn't happy with what happened. ch 4 pages 7-8 show the Bi guy trying to hit on the uke and the uke not liking it. ch 4 page 11 "i don't like the lines"-he's still showing that he's kinda homophobe and doesn't want to voice act a gay man as he'll have to make sounds he doesn't want to make. ch 4 page 12 "i really do hate homos" and "besides, the scene where i seduce the guy, i hate it!"- once again, homophobe not wanting to voice act a gay man. ch 4 page 14: "hating it is not the problem here"-the boss is clearly not worried about his subordinates discomfort. ch 4 page 18: "i do not like homos!"-he's literally stating that he doesn't like homos, at this point it is canon by definition that he is a homophobe. ch 4 pages 19-23: the uke saying he doesn't like the seme's advance and the seme just hitting on him regardless. Just because the uke gets swept away with the mood doesn't mean that he was okay with it... ch 5 page 17 shows the uke demanding to know what happened the night they were together, its been a while and he's STILL worrying about that. If he were tsundere he'd secretly be happy he had sex with his crush so why would he be freaking out about it. ch 5 page 22 shows the uke out right stating what he thinks of the seme, that being that he doesn't like him. ch 5 page 23 shows that the uke just looked up to the seme, nothing more. ch 6 page 16 shows that the uke has a heterosexual relationship with someone and because of his trauma over what happened he feels like he needs to break up with her. ch 7 page 17-18 show the uke being forced into a sexual act that he doesn't want to do, even saying: "Hey, are you crazy!", "I, I don't need it... Hey! don't do it!", and then giving in to the pleasure which doesn't make what happened right...
If all of this wasn't enough, then i don't think i could even convince you that you actually physically exist in this world... What seems to be obviously happening to me is exactly what i said from the start, the uke is a homophobe with a predator boss/coworker collaborating to "turn" the uke gay... my personal belief is that the boss just thinks its a fun pass-time so he's agreed to help the Bi guy get with him. Don't you think it's kind of strange how his house randomly went up for auction? Also, how the boss immediately suggested living with the Bi guy and then telling the uke that he needs to "practice at home" which would totally give the Bi guy all the chances in the world... The boss also will not let him out of his voice acting contract despite his clear discomfort. I think the boss is using the job to get them closer together and give the Bi guy all the chances he could possibly need. I really don't get how you saw "tsundere" here... like, at all. The entire time it's clearly a straight guy freaking out about literally every single thing that happens between him and the Bi guy, the only reason they even kiss and what-not is because the Bi guy absolutely WILL NOT stop no matter what and the uke eventually gives in. It is literally everything i said would happen.
Do you realize you're reading a manga about a straight guy who was raped and forced into a gay voice acting contract while drunk? Or that the boss seems to be in on the whole thing? i honestly think he acts all innocent in front of the uke to lower his guard. I'm serious, i think he is THAT manipulative. I believe that the boss and the Bi guy are seriously working together. The Bi guy is doing his damndest to make the uke think he wanted it despite the uke obviously being straight. Seriously, i'm pretty sure the seme is actually trying to manipulate the uke mentally, he keeps repeating "you actually want me, don't you?" literally AS the uke tries to FIGHT HIM OFF. He touches him in places that will react regardless of if you're actually attraced to someone to confuse the uke and then repeatedly says "you want this, right?" and "the look in your eyes tells me you want this." which is literally a quote in the 'what to say while raping someone' handbook. There isn't a single sexual encounter between them that is consensual... You aren't reading some tsundere uke being all cute with his secret crush, you're reading a straight man being violated and manipulated to feel like he might be okay with a man's touch. Don't mistake his blush for him having FEELINGS for the seme, he's just physically turned on because the seme is mentally manipulating him.
Was he raped? I thought he was seduced? And was angry that he gave in to the seduction like he was being considered easy or his issues with being in the closet.
The translation in the series is a bit off and so I go more by body language to try to figure things out. Especially as the uke keeps blushing around him and not showing fear but embarrassment and shyness.
you just said literally the most controversial thing you could've said. "Its not rape if the uke likes it in the end." Btw, i explained that the reason the uke blushes is because of mental manipulation, the seme has a method that he uses to manipulate the uke's mind, i'll explain: he first touches the uke all over which will naturally turn him on regardless of if he actually wants it (which he clearly doesn't as he fights back saying "no, don't!" literally every single time. Someone touches your penis and it doesn't matter, it WILL get hard, its a natural physical reaction), he then repeatedly says things like "you actually want this, right?" which is clearly NOT the case as the uke literally has not wanted ANY of the advances up to this point (if you can give me an example of a scene where the uke doesn't fight him off the entire time feel free) to plant the idea in the uke's head and then he points out that the uke is "feeling it" (which of course he is, he's physically been stimulated so of course he's all blushy and hard...) as some kind of "proof" that the uke wants it to. Do you understand? He's manipulating the uke into thinking he's okay with the touch of a man. I don't know if you're a guy or what your sexual orientation is, but imagine this situation: there is a guy you don't like who keeps sexually assaulting you by touching you all over your body, while you're telling him not to and trying to fight him off, and then even going so far as to touch your penis and jerk you off against your will. Naturally your body being caressed and your dick being rubbed has got you getting hard during these times, now the guy at this point start pointing your reaction out to you and saying that you clearly wanted it because you got hard and "the look in your eyes tells me you want it", which is just ridiculous because it's a physical reaction and not you consenting to the sexual advances. The guy has been telling you the ENTIRE time that you clearly wanted it and using your physical reaction to him touching you as "proof" that "wanted it" so you start blushing around the guy because you're SO confused about your sexuality (as shown when he talks about how he feels like he has to break up with his GIRLFRIEND because of what happened). He's blushing out of genuine embarrassment, he's a straight homophobe that has, seemingly, had sex with another man while drunk and is now being hit on by that guy RELENTLESSLY so of course he's getting red all the time around him... i don't know why i'm arguing with you on this, go read the new chapters again, it's clearly not consensual the entire time and i even gave you pages you could look at to prove this. If you can't see that he's indeed NOT tsundere than you need your eyes checked...
I think we are talking around each other here.
I'm saying that the translation is disjointed, hard to understand, and doesn't flow right (in English) that it is difficult to say if the incident was rape or if he was seduced and then upset at himself for giving in to his own desires.
Because it feels like the mc has been in love with the guy and just refuses to admit it. He blushes around him a lot (even in the flashbacks it seems this way). His anger seems stemmed not from hate at the guy but at himself because of his internal homophobia and how he feels it's wrong for him to like the guy.
As I said, it seems that way but it's hard for me to be certain because the translation is off and doesn't flow right and the scenes don't always seem to match the text as if we are missing something. At least, it feels that way to me.
The author is trying to make this a cutesy reencounter story with angst of internal homophobia and will they/won't they...and for that to happen we are missing their past history with each other. The scenes cut in and out and sometimes don't make much sense.
It's why I've been paying more attention to the scenes and not so much the text.
And that's all I have left to say.
what flashbacks? the only flashback we see is when it shows his girlfriend leaving him for someone else. i explained that the reason he blushes around him is out of genuine embarrassment as a straight man who thinks he actually slept with a guy, even if he was drunk. I also think the reason he blushes is because the seme keeps telling him that he's feeling it too and that the evidence of this is that the uke gets hard when the seme touches him which is just a physical reaction and doesn't mean the uke wants it. In fact, the uke says the entire time that he doesn't want it and fights him off every single time only to be pushed through so that the seme can get what he wants and blame it on the uke. He's blushing around the seme because he thinks he, as a straight man, allowed a gay man to stick his penis up his and because the gay man keeps telling him that he actually wants these things. The only reason he blushes during the sexual scenes is because of physical stimulation (when you're turned on your pulse increases) and because of embarrassment.
How is it hard to understand the text? if you read all of the uke's text it literally nothing but him talking about hating homos and freaking out/telling him to stop when the seme tries to hit on him. How does any of that sound "tsundere" to you?
Holy shit this is intense. I'm really hoping that it ends up a little more fluffy, but the intensity sure got my attention from the start. I'm curious as to whether or not he's purposefully trying to induce stockholm syndrome on him. I think he was a classmate that was one of his "inner circle" back in high school that the MC forgot about over time as shown in the last few pages of ch. 4, my reasoning for this is the captor's reaction to the MC not remembering him, he gets PISSED. It's possible he was a bully to the MC back in high school and THAT is why he's pissed that the MC doesn't remember him, but i don't see that as the likely scenario as in the flashbacks so far the MC seems to be pretty popular, because of this i think it's a friend that he forgot.
Maybe he's a friend-gone yakuza who decided to take his old crush by force now that he's lost all his fucks to give. I mean, he's already committing crimes as seen in the part where the profiler old man calls him and asks for his assistance in apprehending a person and i think the scar on his face is supposed to clue us in on him being yakuza. If this IS the case i could see it going two ways, either it's going to end up (probably FAR into the story) being a cute/creepy story about a yakuza taking his wife and said "wife" learning to accept and be okay with the situation or its going to maintain the suppressing ambience of the story so far and the poor guy's just going to be imprisoned until he loses his mind.
That was literally just disturbing. The word "love" is used, but i don't really feel any from Sunbae, just obsession. Honestly, to me their relationship is worse than Bum/Sangwoo because at least there appear to be love vibes between them, but this is just... It's love on Sun Hwa's side and just a pure all-consuming obsession on the Sunbae's part, Sunbae just wants a faithful doll he can keep at his side.
Hyunwoo is starting to show an interest in Subin, though he's imagining him as a girl which is a little bit hetero, interesting. I had thought that there was NO chance for Hyunwoo to be Subin's seme-kun, but now theres like a 15% chance. I'm still very sure that they (subin and hyunwoo) didn't have sex that night.
ikr wtf why on earth his imagining him as a girl
Well, i imagine it's because he's always assumed he's hetero so he's only able to look at Subin in that way if he imagines he's a girl. It's still too early for me to say anything on how this might turn out.
maybe he needs to just submit to the subliminal message and "bang subin". ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
at least it without boobs
Jesus he's adorable! If it hasn't already, this needs to be made into an anime. Now i'm just waiting for moemi and saitani to get together so everyone gets a happy ending. He really reminds me of a male version of sawako from kimi ni todoke (except the fighting, of course. though i guess some girls do get physical with her when ayano and chi come and save her.), hes got the same issue with making friends and people misunderstanding because of outward appearances. btw, i personally love wakatsukixruiji, i loved moemi as well but felt as though she is supposed to be the support character and that the mangaka did a good job of portraying this while still giving her depth and making her lovable.