Cyrano's Topics (213)

Especially if the mangaka is a fan of the serious that means that they wanted to share it with people, right? You can't get someone to want to read or watch the original content if what you present holds nothing of interests and even more only confuses the reader.

Series*

Exactly. This weird thing certainly didn't make me want to read the actual series at all, quite the contrary.
I'm not a fan of doujinshi to begin with, in general. I'd certainly never do it with a series of mine: I'd always want to write stories for the actual series. I'd also never have my fixed personages do things totally out of character in a seperate story, the way it's done in doujinshi. That is something we Belgian mangaka never do! If your character is like this or like that, you keep him that way for ever. Our characters are sacred! Imagine Tintin or the Smurfs do weird things they'd never do in the real series? Never.
Plus: we think the script is just as, or even more important than the drawings; we're storytellers trough and trough.
I often wonder what the real reason of making 'doujinshi' actually is. I'd have to ask one of my Japanese colleagues, one day, if ever I get to meet one...

this dj was made for people who are fans of dtb, it was drawn because people like that show. theres no "should be this way or that way", the mangaka may even have drawn it because they enjoy dtb, not just for money. of course i understand your wanting to read it without having to watch the series, but the mangaka can draw whatever they wish.

Well duhhh, of course he can. That's not what I'm saying, I just don't think it's a good idea, that's all. Even if I question the quality, that doesn't mean I deny the author the right to make what he wants. I just never would do it myself, for the reasons I mentioned. And just as this mangaka, I have the right to do as I please, don't I? And also to say what I think...

you do, which is why i never said anything about you not being able to say what you did. where did it seem like i was telling you that you couldn’t say what you wanted? i was just saying that a dj isnt bad just because people who havent seen the original cant understand it.

Well, that's exactly what I found was bad. I happen to think it should be good on it's own, even for people who haven't seen the original series. Else it's like a waste. That's what I think. That's all I meant.

ok, thats fine, but this way its like an inside joke and doesnt waste pages explaining things that the fans already know. Besides, if it was an all-can-understand dj, how is it different than any other original manga? This one gives a little secret twist at the end that wouldn’t be as exciting if it was all laid out, and wouldn’t make sense to put if this was meant for anyone. This dj may be confusing for others, but its pretty exciting for fans of the show. And again, I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything, I’m just explaining why it may be a "waste" for others but a jem for fans.

I guess.
Where I am, mangaka don't draw dj because most of us only publish albums right away, the comics magazines having all gone bakcrupt or closed down a few decades ago. In Japan, they still sell thousands of issues a week, so the mangaka are all hired by those magazine publishing companies, who ask them to make a certain number of stories a month, or a year.
Mangaka (and our predecessors from like 30 years ago, when the magazines still existed) all first publish their stories in things like Shounen Jump, and when their story is successfull in the magazine, they make seperate stories sold directly to the fanzines, editions paid and published directly by the fans of the mangaka or the comic series. Doujinshi aren't published by the same editor as the original story: that's why they usually are often different from it in genre. If the fans ask for, say, a yaoi or hentai or yuri or shotacon or lolicon version of one of their favorite series, be it Naruto or whatever, then the mangaka will have to make that in his spare time, outside the hours of his original series. The fans maybe pay better or so, which bring some mangaka to make them, eventhough they're busy enough without it.
But we don't have that opportunity: we depend exlusively on the end publisher, just albums, no pre-publications magazines.
So we aren't going to waste our time drawing stuff that hasn't got but remotely something to do with our real story. And we don't have legions of readers either. Most of us can't live off it anymore: selling an album now and then doesn't pay your rent. So we all have a day job to make ends meet, except for a very small few. That too makes a difference.

i thought a lot of dj were made by different people than the original author though? Cause a lot of them have completely different art than the original does, and there are some people who specialize in dj.

Yeah, those are the fans themselves, or wannabe mangaka who make doujinshi from stories that are very popular in order to make their name and art known, hoping to get the attention from the publishers that way, and find a contract. It's one of the ways for beginning mangaka to start a career. But originally doujinshi are stories for 'fanzines', magazines that are created by fans of a mangaka or a series, or of "manga' in general, and who get the mangaka who makes the series to make a seperate story for their fanzine. A famous mangaka would have to be paid for that, of course; but a reasonably unknown, aspiring mangaka would even do it for free, as long as it's being spread widely... so big fan groups who are getting a name for themselves will attract beginning mangaka. Everybody wants their spot in the sun, and there are a lot of spots in the sun. The market is huge, Japanese people read tons of manga each year, the magazines sell enormous amounts of issues each, and so even the fans own publications are attractive. Sometimes one of those fan groups get so big they actually become a real manga publishing company.
It's something to be jealous of, in Europe, really.

When you buy a game some times the creator company can make and sell separately an expansion. But you have to have the main game in order to play the expansion. That's the rule. Yes you pay additional money, but you can use it only if you had purchase in the past the main game. Same here. Most DJ are saying nothing about the story, no exposition. You are suppose to know it. And it is a "fan service" to present a sentimental or a sexual scene of some beloved characters. For example for many Tiger and Bunny DJs you really had to know the story to comprehend the DJ as it has reference to a specific event and its aftermath.

I see. They probably do it on purpose, then, in order to leave the original story unharmed, so to speak. Stil, I would never make my characters do things that don't befit their personality. That just would feel wrong to me. And I wouldn't allow any fans of mine do it either. (Provided I had fans that would want to do it, which I don't, at least none that I know of)

I recommend watching the anime so you don’t get left out. :

I might. It's bound to be better than this!

DEFINITELY better than this imo! I hope you check it out. o:

Oh but I only watched the anime back when I was still in high school so I might be wearing rose-colored glasses. I look back at it fondly though.

Those memories are pleasant things, aren't they. I've got plenty of those too

I would recommend you to really look into the Japanese's doings during World War 2, how they oppressed the whole of Asia. Then, only comment on why Chinese is still resentful towards Japan to this day. Thank you :)
Plus, a manga does not mean anything when it only portrays Chinese culture to a T, it's irrelevant to talk about Chinese sentiment in a manga comment section.

Please, don't paternise me. The Chinese government is every inch as horrible to its own people as the Japanese ever were. But by enticing them toward Japan, they take away the attention of the people to what they actually do themselves.
And why would a Japanese manga be unintitled to talk about Chinese culture? There are thousands of novels and comics and theatre plays that talk about an other culture. Why not? Ever heard Danemark complain about Shakespeare's Hamlet?

Well, you've got a point, but I don't believe that the readers of yaoi are kids. At least not outside the internet xD

Yaoi is supposed to be geared towards responsible adults. I'm sure something as trivial as this won't influence older readers to take up smoking. A younger audience though ... (￣∇￣")

Are you serious? Kids are not supposed to be reading this. This is for adults.

#－.－) ...more shocked by a smocking character than 2 guys getting on in the heat of summer.... ╮(￣▽￣)╭

don't mistake me,2 hot guys is my daily pleasure of my fujoshi life (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Especially after one passed out from heatstroke. That seems a bit irresponsible to me. But it was hot so I overlooked it.

It might be a problem if this was a kids manga. In any case, smoking in Japan isn't as big a deal as it is in the West.

It is getting a big deal in Japan too, these days. But I guess we must realize most of these manga have been drawn and published several years ago, when smoking was still allowed and considered cool everywhere, just as it was in America and Europe...
Still, I hate just looking at it. Yuck :-{

I think they are merely being reflective of Japanese culture.
Smoking is still pretty popular in Japan despite recent anti-smoking successes.
If they consider it part of their identity, it seems judgemental to say they shouldn't be able to depict it in their literature, art, etc...

Don’t agree. Saying it's wrong to display a very hasardous habit in your art and depicting it as cool, isn’t being judgmental, it's just saying it's wrong. It's not like Japanese, Chinese & Koreans don't know smoking is bad for public health! When I was a kid, just after WW2, youngsters had no idea. They saw Humphrey Bogart and Clark Gable smoke in the movies, and imitated them. That caused everyone to get addicted. It took lawsuits to make the tobacco industry admit they knew about the toxicity of cigarettes all along and still made adds for it, for mere profit (remember the "come to Malboro country" adds?) They had to pay the actor who played the "cowboy" in that add, who was dying of lung cancer, millions of $$. That’s a long time ago. It's not like this has to be "rediscovered" in each country separately! Everybody knows it's toxic and addictive, not just in America, where the law suits took place. Influencing young people to smoke by making their manga heroes do it, keeps the myth of “smoking is cool” alive, and therefore leaves the mangaka complicits in the crime of giving their public a lethal disease.
So no, I don’t feel guilty when I mutter against stupid mangaka drawing characters huffing and puffing stinky fags.
And btw, it’s not part of Japanese culture anymore than it is of ours, since tobacco was introduced into Japanese society same time as it was in Europe: in the 16th century. Besides: bad things that are part of culture shouldn’t be maintained merely because of that! I can think of more than one “cultural” tradition nobody wants to be maintained or reintroduced, such as witch burning and flogging and slave trade and Inquisition… Culture is no excuse to revert or stop progress. (crusader mode off)

So? The heat of summer never gave anybody lung cancer or a heart disease!

no, it isn't. It's meant for young girls and young woman, many of which are under 18. Besides, since when have over 19-year-olds become immune for bad influences?

It is aimed towards 18+ adults in Japan... Just because a younger audience read it as well does not mean that it is geared towards them. It is also widely accepted that older people have more sense in terms of not being influenced by things such as smoking as seen in this manga.

Yeah... do you really believe what you've just said? About +18-year-olds being having more sense than younger ones? :-P
Just look at their voting behaviour and think again...

Reading it won't make me wanna smock !!It's not really life and moreover yaoi is not for under aged people (as for cigaretts of course). I don't think it's a such a problem to have a smocking character in manga, just my opinion.

Reading it maybe won't make YOU smoke, but you're not the only person in the world. Plenty of people aren't as stong-willed as you consider yourself. And don't forget that mangaka not only draw yaoi but tons of other manga, among which a lot that are aimed at younger people. You don't think it's such a problem? Tell that to people who's loved ones have died or are dying of smoking-related diseases! Underestimating a problem doesn't mak it go away... that has never worked.

Obviously you have some personal history that makes smoking a hot button for you; however, you fail to recognize that it is a legal drug, just like coffee, that some people choose to use, despite knowing the risks. Consequently, it's perfectly reasonable that mangakas would opt to include it in their work without intending any deeper meaning to it.
It's so telling that you are fixated on smoking when there are many unhealthy behaviors portrayed in mangas; of which, it is but one and nowhere near the most dangerous or offensive.
Seriously, why are you more worried about smoking that unprotected sex, sexual violence, drinking, etc...? All of which appear in yaoi mangas with alarming frequency.
Honestly, if we force artists to remove any reference to anything even remotely unhealthy, the stories won't just come across as unrealistic, they'll be boring as heck.

That is besides the point haha voting has nothing to do with this. With the UK voting to leave the EU a larger percent of people voted to leave because those people collectively thought that we would do better outside of the EU than in it. That is the UK's and its peoples choice. Smoking is a personal choice. It is up to a single person if they smoke or not. The author should not be blamed. It is not their intention to encourage young people/any people to smoke (Once again Yaoi IS NOT aimed at a younger audience). The author just wants to spread Yaoi goodness. If you are so impressionable to even consider smoking because of this manga ... Welp you need to reevaluate your life choices.

You guys are all missing my point by a mile. Maybe you only watch yaoi, to each his own; but manga come in all genres, including kid's manga. So whoever yaoi is aimed at, is irrelevant; I'm talking about ALL manga. Kids' manga included. And the rest, about it being a "choice" to smoke and all that, is just nonsense. It's an addictive drug; your own 'choice' gets annihilated: that's kind of the whole idea of an addiction, duh... and you can't deny it's causing deadly diseases, a lot more than some other drugs, includig illegal ones! Nobody can deny it. All you can say is " there are other things that are bad too..." but that is irrelevant in the topic as well. The existence of other bad things doesn't make one bad thing good.
I don't have any personal history regarding smoking; it is just my experience that whenever you mention some dissaproval over smoking, you immediately face a mile of dispute and discussion. Funny phenomenon, that.

Talk about "missing the point"...
No one here is advocating for smoking, they are merely advocating for personal and artistic freedom.
And as far as smoking "annihilating" choice, that's simply ridiculous.
Nicotine addiction does not magically rob anyone of free will.
When I was younger, I smoked for a while. Then I got sick of the smell and the expense, so I quit. I know some people have difficulty quitting, but I didn't. I decided I didn't want to smoke anymore, so I stopped. It was literally that easy. Moreover, even when people have difficulty quitting, they can make the choice to keep trying until they find a method that works for them.
More importantly, we are not talking about a genre aimed at kids, which is a very critical point.
Yaoi is aimed at adults, the vast majority of whom can handle being exposed to subjects and ideas that might be considered unhealthy, dangerous, and/or controversial without being adversely impacted by them.
Perhaps the real problem here is that you are not one of those adults.

Maybe YOU just expect that all mangas to be some kind of "rolemodel" for everyone, but for me I prefer it to reflect the culture and the society to some extend. Is it bad for health to smoke : YES / Is it bad to drawing it : I DON'T THINK SO. I respect your opinion and I'm not against it, there is nothing wrong in discuting it ...If you're fed up with "arguing" just ignor ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Yeah, yeah, yeah (yawn). Smoking always gives you the same old futile discussion. Doesn't change anything about the fact that it's a lethal addiction, period. And nobody is able to deny it: all they can do is come up with arguments that have nothing to do with it, like artistic freedom en so on... As if that made it right.
BTW, the plural of manga is not mangas but manga, and the plural of mangaka is mangaka. No -s's at the end. There aren't any plural suffixes in Japanese. One samurai, two samurai.
(just to change the subject)

thanks for the lesson sensei !!(￣∇￣")

Yup, you can never get enough life lessons from an egotistical douchebag.

I don't even get the point you are trying to make any more. Honestly, enlighten me. Why are you getting so worked up over being proven wrong? You are obviously the minority here who thinks that Yaoi is aimed at kids... The artist has portrayed a realistic character. Are you saying that no one should write or portray smoking at all? But that is unrealistic. Smoking is a pleasure people take up in the REAL WORLD. Berating the artist of this manga for drawing one little scene with a cig is just silly. It has very little influential power and will not solve smoking in the real world.

A sample of someone who can't seem to accept that their reasoning is so stupid lol

Like seriously, so if someone read a manga with a character who is smoking, they will try imitate them?

What about manga with rape? What about tv series with murder? Suicide? Robbery? Will people imitate those things too? Rape people, kill people, commit suicide, steal... how come smoking is such a big deal I don't get it lol.

Well, in a lot of cases the author writes onomatopoeias over th picture, so they would write a sound, such as "clunk," rather than "throws on floor." I don't mnow about this manga specifically, but translators often change the sounds into actions because everyone in Japan would understand the sound but there would be no equivalent the translator can think of in english. Japanese people have a lot of evident onomatopoeias that we don't have and a lot of natives don't even know all of them.