Puppyboy Agend-er's Topics (923)

fr. if there's something i dont like in ANYTHING i stop consuming it because i know i will not like it. i don't get why ppl want everything to be morally-good when plots like these exist, specifically in this genre.

Couldn't agree moooooree

agreed. I was so against winter in the early chapters but still chose to stay. I keep reading and it gets even more interesting how their past shaped their character in the present.

There are literal thousands of titles in the bl genre, yet these people willingly choose to stick to the series they claim give them trauma or are "bad" for having darker themes.

I'm so tired of it LOL

They expect the entire plot to be dumped on them for full understanding within 10 chapters. It's like their attention spans can't handle more than 30 minutes of consuming something lol

Like, the moment Winter dropped a hint that they used to know each other my ass was like "ohhhhhh I am in for a long, painful ride" and have STAYED for it. I live for this shit lol and it's nice having something deeper and darker to read after I've had to sate myself with like 15 office/college romance series.

The day people learn to just move on from the things they dislike instead of continuing to consume it will be the day I finally know peace lol

Fr, I see him

That one panel of him looking up at the knight sealed it for me lol

Even the earrings put the look together for him.

We never know... Author might use him as a ref while designing that juicy wizard

Tempted to go see if they've got other socmed accounts and see if they've ever drawn Jotakak LOL

I hope Jaeshin realizes this and roll out of the blame game. His dad tho hot is such an extra

Same here. Like, sure, their relationship was hella rocky and bad at the start, but now they are both so in love I just want them to be happy.

Also, Chae-hee is the whole reason why Lee Nok ended up in the spirit world to begin with. She had already begun cursing him before Jaeshin met him.

Also, probably gonna get boo'd, but I hope Yoon is endgame LOL

Better a devil you know than one you don't and allat.

fr it was 2 am and I was like this HAS to go somewhere and it didn't

Bruh, I was expecting goofy yakuza type shit where they just basically play a game of cat 'n mouse.

The whiplash was worse than getting into Cozy Obsession thinking it was some sort of goofy omegaverse isekai caused by the mc's sister.

I have 0 idea what is going on atp, which kinda sucks and leads me to believe that whoever helped adapt this didn't do such a good job.

I only just started getting into Chaepali's works these past couple of days ((I've literally read all of them to their current updates with the last week LOL)) and this just doesn't feel right LOL

I binge read this series a couple weeks ago in one sitting, so the details are still pretty fresh in my mind.

I figured with the high rating and how majority of the people in the comments were going gaga for Sa-yan that there'd be some sort of redemption or at least emotional catharsis and reconciliation between the two. Instead, I'm confused 'cause Sa-yan is still a piece of shit and Ilic is still living in captivity, thinking about wanting to kill himself almost every other thought lol

It literally starts with Sa-yan blackmailing and raping Ilic for killing a man that attempted to rape him.

I'm not dissing it or anything seeing as I get off on fucked up shit in general or it just straight up doesn't faze me lol I just need to know why this series has such a different crowd opinion compared to others that are only half as bad.

It’s easy: Sa-yan has depth and uniqueness to him (including visuals), plus his sexual torture of Ilic was made so Ilic could also take pleasure from it (mostly). Seme from Jinx is just flat and boring, rehashed version of all rapist-semes in other BL.
And yes, in this particular case it helps that characters look pretty much like characters from Berserk.

Maybe is because they feel good reading about a 'feminine looking guy' being in control of a conventionally masculine guy, it probably scratches that itch for femdom content without it being actually that..

I'm sorry, but I don't think being raped and forced to endure what's basically sexual torture 'cause your inbred hunny is fighting the demonic voices in his head that want you dead is any less egregious than Jaekyung being an oblivious asshole with a huge cock lol

And since we're pulling the BERSERK reference out of our asses, Griffith is also leagues worse than Jaekyung or any standard asshole seme 'cause he rapes and murders the people Gutz cherishes the most while he's forced to watch, screaming out in blood curdling rage.

That, and judging by the people complaining about how flat or "boring" the ending of the main story for this series was, I wouldn't say that these characters are that much more appealing other than Ilic is a beefy bottom.

This is basically a regurgitated "blackmail then rape till they fall in love" plot crossed with historical British royalty lol except Ilic isn't ((and from what I heard from the novel readers he won't ever)) falling in love with his abuser, but instead just coming to accept that he won't be able to escape him unless he dies.

I mean, I get that I guess? If you don't squint at it too hard or don't know shit about BDSM and its adjacents lol

I figured that was the only reason why this series was getting such a hard "OK in my books" from readers despite how psychotic and abusive Sa-yan is towards Ilic lol make the seme a pretty twink who fucks a beefy bottom and anything gets a pass, I guess.

Sorry, I also forgot that people seem to excuse sexual violence if it's directed towards someone who is larger than their abuser.

The only reason why Jaekyung catches so much heat is 'cause Kim Dan is an UwU soft bean angel so if someone is just slightly mean to him people rally in defense.

Ilic literally blackmailed a man for defending himself against a potential rapist just so he could rape the man repeatedly and sexually abuse him lol but it's OK 'cause he looks like Griffith and Ilic is built like a shit brick house.

I won't deny the appeal. I play DoL and actively put my PC in various dangerous situations ((like being sent to the asylum just so they can get raped by Harper)), but I'm not the one committing mental gymnastics to justify which one is the lesser of two evils nor crashing out on someone who says they like a series even if the seme is an arrogant dickhead lol

I think both characters are just as bad. It's just that Jinx is more violent when it comes to the rape scenes while here, it's more romanticized. It has something to do with how the artists draws the scene and how the dialogue flows. Hence, it is easy for people to turn a blind eye since it is quite a "norm" (which I dislike) in these manhwas. In the end, both are rape in my opinion and Illic is your case of stockholm syndrome.

My theory is that it depends on the context of the plot. I notice a pattern and it's that people like toxic tops when it actually makes sense for them to be toxic! A king from the Ancient Age, a tyrant, a mobster. I feel like it's harder to love a toxic character who is... an ordinary man, like Jaekyung. Yes. He's famous. But he doesn't have to be like he is. I feel like BL readers (mostly women) hate seeing ordinary men being toxic, because that's what they see every day with the men around them.
We love the toxic king, because it's fantasy, we could never imagine something like that. The popular man in his 20s who treats everyone badly because he's an idiot, yes, he's everyone's ex.

Pd: this is only my theory bc personally I do love jaekyung and I do love modern bastards but i can understand why most people don't

It's nice to see someone articulate an actual point that isn't just "Jaekyung rape bad. Sa-yan rape good." Lol

I also have a theory that a lot of people are excusing or shrugging it off for this series 'cause Ilic isn't a dainty lil petite thing that looks like the wind could snap him in two. The power imbalance isn't physically visible in this series till Ilic takes a swing at Sa-yan and his guards come rushing in.

People also seem to think that just 'cause Ilic has given up on escaping that means that he's finally "falling in love", but it's like you said; it's an actual case of Stockholm syndrome wherein his brain is just adjusting to the fact that his situation is hopeless. He's realized a long time ago that he'd have to die in order to rid himself of Sa-yan so he's just resigned himself till they inevitably die together.

I don't even think Sa-yan fully loves Ilic, either. His mind his warped due to incessant inbreeding which has basically ruined his ability to think like others. It's evident by the way he has to take concoctions in order to quiet the mad voices in his head.

It's certainly an interesting read whereas some plot points go, but if you boil it down to the basics-- like most people do with Jinx-- it's basically a series about blackmail, rape and the eventual Stockholm syndrome that comes with it.

I would kinda agree with this, if it wasn't for the fact that even in series with kings, yakuza or even gods also didn't get a pass for having asshole semes lol

Between this site and mrm I've read well over 5,000 bl titles and have read probably millions of comments atp. The pattern recognition with this kind of incident is when the power imbalance isn't so physically evident or we have a pretty top x beefy bottom scenario-- mostly.

And in the case of Jaekyung he's actually like a housewife's wet dream lol he's like Dorian or whatever from 50 Shades if Dorian was actually hot ((imo ofc that book series was absolutely laughable and I only read it for comedy sake)). Jaekyung isn't just famous. He's hot, rich, very built and has an arrogant/asshole personality. I know more women who would absolutely wet themselves over having a man like than your standard rich dude. It's evident *by* how popular 50 Shades was with middle aged to older women. That and trashy dimestore romance novels that are filled with kidnapping, rape, coercion and so on lol

I think in this case it's what I stated in my second point and the fact that people just don't like Mingwa for some reason even tho compared to the shit *I've* read Jaekyung is hella tame lol

Are you giving them suckers or something??

Tf is this supposed to mean lol

you were fuckin doing your sTuDy and I'm agreeing on their theories and arguments because upvoting is not allowed in replies..???? the fuck LMAOOOOOO

get a fuckin ice or something and cool down your puppy ass LMAO well understandable for you to get so triggered with fuckin EMOJIS when you're out here over analyzing fictional stories when you're reading in a pirate site chill yo ass. yikes (▰˘◡˘▰)

Crashing out this early in the game, hun? I just asked a question 'cause I couldn't tell what the emojis were lol

No need to get your panties in a twist. Maybe don't skip out on your nappies and snackies next time, kid lol it makes you cranky.

Just realized I put Ilic blackmailed a man instead of Sa-yan lol

Truly my greatest downfall.

I love what you have brought to discussion, because it IS a fair point to bring up. Why is Sayan’s actions more “acceptable” or redeemable compared to, let’s say, the main stream BL’s that cover similar tropes?

You brought up Jinx for a fine example; I actually sat and pondered on that, obviously there are very blatant differences between the two. Jaekyung is a very vocal, physical, abuser compared to Sayan who is quieter—more analytical about his approach on manipulating Ilric and trapping him, essentially. I think what attracts people to Sayan more than Jaekyung is

1) (this one is blatantly obviously, but) his deliberate docile, warm, choice of character design. He was easily crafted to make the audience look deeper at his visuals rather than his actions. However, with Jaekyung everything about his character is sharp, rigged, and cooled. His character design already gives the audience an already negative image as to what his character is to be; which brings me to, 2) Sayan’s cruel, abusive, actions are not 1-dimensional, but multifaceted I would say. As stated before, his abusive actions seem to cater to Illric to please him. To make Illric come only to him. But with Jaekyung, his actions are not. He saw Dan as exchangeable, a usable body to cater to his favors (or jinx) without caring for Dan. He actively rehashes these views; His job field even amplifies his aggressive behaviors.

But, those two characters are also arguably alike, hell, ALLL MLs that are written in these, what many call, “dark romances” are similar. So what really makes a good rapist?! LIKE FR, IM SO— LIKE—YO. It really has me thinking this absurd question with these types of stories because like, what truly excuses these toxic behaviors if not a character being designed to visually distract the reader FROM his behaviors. Wow. This is terrible. I also would say that many writers and illustrators have these fairly large gap—hiatuses—that I really am starting to think is to make readers to recall the full extent of how abused the MC had been because they all have this stupid thing where SUDDENLY the ML realizes his twisted ways and does a full 180. And SOMEHOW the MC can look past it. I guess—you know what—it’s truly because these writers have this full idea and scope as to what they want their abusive, toxic, fucked up, MLs to be at the end of the story, but never care to expand their MCs because, if doing so, why would the MC stay?!????? UGH IM SPIRALING, YOU’VE MADE ME WANT TO WRITE A THESIS ABOUT THIS.

I turn a blind eye to problematic pretty boy's

YESSSSS! I agree with you

same gurl so everyone just calm down this is just FICTION so chill the f out. xoxo

You're all good, homie lol

I've stated it a couple times in previous replies, but I think the main reason why people are so forgiving of Sa-yan is due to there not being a physical power imbalance between him and Ilic. He may not be able to physically overpower Ilic, but he uses the threat of exposing the fact he murdered the captain's son ((albeit he did it out of self-defense 'cause the guy was trying to rape him)) as an excuse to rape him. Ilic also knows that if he were to do anything to Sa-yan he risks the very high chance of being executed. The only reason why nothing happens is 'cause of Sa-yan's mental instability. He's constantly battling his madness, the voice that tells him to just get rid of Ilic, which has resulted in him basically sexually torturing Ilic instead ((the scene where they go back to that one place and Sa-yan forces him to engage in extreme, non-consensual BDSM plays all night)).

And you're right about how the artist and writer both created Sa-yan to be visually pleasing. He's a very beautiful, androgynous man with long white hair ((he belongs on the list of white-haired psychos like Griffith LOL)). He was made to look ephemeral and disarming at the same time.

I will say this tho; why have several people now stated that Jaekyung was more physically abusive than Sa-yan lol like, is it because Kim Dan looks like he would never be able to stand up for himself so therefore what Jaekyung is doing is worse? But then that leaves me thinking how unfair that is for Ilic 'cause his trauma and abuse is trivialized just 'cause he's a big dude lol he's forced to endure sexual abuse, being kidnapped and unwillingly held captive by a psycho he had believed impregnated his sister. Now, a decade later, he's completely given up all hope of ever being able to have his freedom so his brain copes by making him have romantic thoughts about his abuser-- or suicide.

And I wish people would quit taking this as if I didn't like the story lol I wouldn't be sitting here counting days for updates if I despised it. I just find it hypocritical that people hate on other semes who are arguably far less abusive ((not Jaekyung, but it's 3 am, I'm sick and can't think of anything arm lol)) and I guess that's what is irritating me rn lol

I'm just gonna point out that yes, while my discussions have mostly been centered around the contents of the stories and not their writers or artists, it isn't all "just fiction" when some of the psychos from this site actively seek out the creators on other social media to harass them over the stuff they made lol

Not saying that the people I have interacted with here have done it, but I do follow like 100+ bl artists and writers on other platforms and have seen the disgusting shit these lunatics say to them over "just fiction."

This isn't a dig at you, btw. Just stating that it isn't always the case lol

But that's so subjective lol

Like, for example, I find Jaekyung ((Jinx)) and Zehnya ((Codename: Anastasia)) both very gorgeous. Zehnya is more on the beautiful side ((even if he is a whole ass fucking TREE my guy he is TALL LOL)) where Jaekyung is a very accurate depiction of a gorgeous Korean man who's job is a physical contact sport. If I were to use your excuse then why is it so bad for me to "turn a blind eye" to their antics just 'cause a majority of the readers despise them for being assholes, but it's OK for them to turn a blind eye to what Sa-yan is doing?

He blackmailed a man who was trying to protect himself from getting raped by another man only to end up raping him till he eventually just quit fighting it.

But it's OK to ignore all that just 'cause he's pretty? It all boils down to subjective personal tastes at the end of the day, and if you don't agree with those tastes then you're the bad guy somehow LOL

So, mangago is doing that thing where everyone's replies have disappeared for me LOL

I'm gonna take this as a sign to take my sick ass to bed.

I'll get back to replying to those who are actually wanting to have meaningful discussions when I wake up in a few hours.

To those who have come here just to be angry; I hope you get a good nights' rest and have a nice breakfast when you wake up.

(●'◡'●)ﾉ

Dude, you are so right.

I didn’t necessarily vocally take in account of Dan or Ilic’s differences in physique (and, of course, Dan’s pray-like character), but this is extremely true! I remember reading some BL manhwa where this very buff MC was being sexually assault by two twinks, dare I say, and in the comments there were a handful of people victim blaming the MC; “If he’s so buff, he should’ve protected himself better if he *really* didn’t like it.” You know, those types of rehashing, and it’s really fucking odd?

If I were to really deep dive into this odd phenomenon, I think it has to do with something psychological to readers; Not to say that my next statement is that BLs are primarily women catered—but, I think it has to do with buff male characters being in a disadvantage position/role that is usually for the petite, docile, submissive character that is pleasing for some people to read about. But what is confusing, and extremely bewildering, is when people become hypocritical in the changed dynamic, but also extremely harsh on those who question or look further into what they’re reading.

Every single MC that has been raped or sexually assaulted by the ML falls into coping and submitting to them because what more do they have? Iliac, like you beautifully put it, is no different. And it’s sad that some viewers look past him and are enamored by his abuser.

As for it being 3 am for you, it’s damn near 5 for me so I completely understand not formulating a full proper sentence or references. I too enjoy reading this story and stories that (properly, or stupidly,) cover dark subjects like this as well! As for me, though, I’m always going to be the one pointing out the oddities and cruelty even if I’m in a room full of (to lightly put it) sheep.

Honestly I like this more because it doesn't have a redemption arc.
I haven't read 'jinx' specifically, but usually when authors try to redeem a bad character it just feels like they're trying to erase everything they did, or excuse it because they have trauma.
It feels pretty manipulative to go from 'rapist asshole' to 'poor little meow meow with dead parents', and it annoys me that the ukes always fall for it...
Here I can just turn my brain off and read abt an awful person being awful.

Also the huge status difference kinda helps. Like if they were equals then it would mean that the uke is kinda... Accepting it? Being a doormat? Instead there would be severe consequences to him leaving, so it's less frustrating that he's just being there and taking it
(Only because this is fiction, I would obviously never blame someone irl for staying in an abusive relationship)

At the end of the day both jinx and this have issues which is fine because this (fictional) work belongs to someone its their story they can do wtc they want with the characters so either I can enjoy it or shut tf up. I have 0 moral expectations from any bl because most of them have SA but it's important to remember that all of this is fiction. People can watch the weirdest shit in movies but need to put up a moral standing here on illegal sites for no reason.
also people are biased they can go to any length to defend what they like over another story with similar non con issues dont expect too much from readers here lol

gurl, ikalma nana imong itlog gurl kay wa kay mabuhat ana. daghan ganahan ani na story. unya og dili ka ganahan ani, ayaw nalang basaha. dili man mamugos ang author sa imoha nga basahon ni oy. nganong strong kayka dha. wala man mi nangayo og essay sa imoha para makasabot mi nga dili ni maayo nga story kay naay SA, dili namo kailangan imong essay nga nakalist pa. haaays miga puyo nalang dha. xoxo

Yeah, I can see that and it does play into my point that people choose to ignore the abuse 'cause physically there isn't a power imbalance. Ilic *could* physically defend himself, but 'cause Sa-yan is a high-status noble he can't for fear of being executed.

But, I mean, this is if I ignore the fact that there's a lot of series with this type of power imbalance that people don't give this one the type of leniency it has lol

After talking to a few people or receiving a few replies I think I've figured out that people are just fickle and very vehement about it. There's some people who just accept Ilic's fate and ignore the abuse 'cause Sa-yan is hot. Others ignore it 'cause they feel it isn't "as bad" just 'cause Ilic gives up and they see that as him falling in love, and not a sign of Stockholm syndrome for some reason.

I stated in the edit of OP, but I have a hard time coming to grips or understanding how hypocritical some people can be. I really do appreciate the people who have taken the time to give me a reply that actually tries to explain their side of things lol thank you.

I don't use Google so the translation is rough, but I think you've misunderstood me lol

I'm not mad at the story. I state this in the edit section for clarification. I like this series and have 0 qualms with problematic themes in bl. I've been reading for a lil over 2 decades now so there's pretty much nothing I haven't seen atp plot-wise.

I just wanted to see what people wanted to say or explain about why sometimes they can forgive or ignore the abuse the seme commits and why other times they seem to be out for blood or to ruin the artist's career over it lol it wasn't meant to be an insult to the series, and I think ((judging by my downvotes and some replies)) people seem to think it is.

People tend to take things as a personal slight if someone questions their line of thinking, even if it is just out of genuine curiosity lol

Yeah, tbh you'd think that after being on this site specifically for over a decade I'd learn this by now lol but, tbf, it wasn't really like this back in the day.

The time when comments/topics were disabled covid brought in a lot of new users who were just now getting into bl/yaoi. A lot of them don't know the history behind the genre and seem to stigmatize or slander a lot of what is created due to bringing their personal feelings/morals into the mix.

I've been reading since I was 10 and I turn 32 this summer lol atp there's lil to nothing that surprises me, and aside from my own personal dislikes ((Serene Bird by BWT has created in me a pretty strong aversion to certain scenarios despite how much I loved the series lol)) I don't really find any issue with people safely expressing themselves through a fictional setting or medium. I don't try to morally grandstand if there's something problematic in a series I'm reading.

I play a text based adventure porn game where everything and one is out to rape you lol I couldn't judge someone for what they write when I'm out here trying to get my PC kidnapped and confined by my favorite love interest LOL

I feel like I kinda rambled and derailed the convo-- sorry.

Yeah, I didn't end up falling asleep till 5 am myself lol ((fell victim to my favorite videogame essayist and ended up watching a 2 hr long video about Final Fantasy VIII OTL))

I've seen comments like this, too, where people blame the victim for not "trying harder to fight back" if they are of larger physique. I've also seen people say stuff like "girl why don't you just kill him and move on" and whatnot lol it's almost like they see the fictional character as a real human actively living this stuff out and not a fictional character that has all their actions pre-determined by its creator.

Also, you'd be correct! A lot of the origin to bl/yaoi is owed to repressed women using it as a medium to express their desires in a way that was harder for men to find out about. The term "fujoshi" or "rotten girl" was coined by the men who learned about these women to label them as "undesirable", but was later reclaimed by these said women when times began to change and they started gaining their human rights. Now the creator pool is a lot more diverse to include queer folk and even hetero men ((fudanshi)). The genre has expanded and evolved to include a lot more room for people to not only express their repressed desires, but to give them a way to share their own personal experiences in a safe and healthy way.

At the end of the day, tho, it's up to the reader to determine how they feel about what they are consuming.

I just struggle a lot when I see discrepancies or things that seem to conflict with one another lol it's hard for me to understand 'cause for me these are just stories at the end of the day. I've read and watched thousands of them and I've been doing so since I was 4 years old ((I watched the first Ghost in the Shell movie when it was first released in America and the rest was history LOL)) I'm not morally bothered if there's problematic things in something I'm consuming 'cause it doesn't harm me or the world I live in. Unless the character or story is just absolute garbage, I don't differentiate or say one abuser is worse than the other and excuse the actions of them to make myself feel better for thinking they are hot LOL

If bad, why hot with a massive dong and fat tits-- LOL