I keep thinking how bad the authors fucked up. The startup for this story started for Cain and even the title belongs to him but he became the 3rd character and the author tried so hard to keep his story in not realizing they should've saved his story for another time because they just changed to much of their original thought. That's why Cain feels out of place for some readers. There was literally no point in making this a love triangle. Cain backstory is only important if the MC remembered too.
Anyway, im glad Cain is happy and travelling and tbh I think he's the real winner here.
I agree. I think this was largely influenced by his likeability. In the beginning he had a more sinister vibe which was thrown out of the plot to maintain his popularity and general popularity of the manhwa but that just ended up ruining his character and role in the plot as it was originally intended. For the most part he feels like filler material than a well though out part of the plot. The author tries to make him important but so much of his character arc is so out of place with the main plot. Eventually he is only left as the nice guy down bad for a man that doesn't want him.
That water kiss was so cute it got Ian topping and taking the lead after being teased
Ngl if the author has to explain this much in the creator's note just shows how bad they couldn't convey the message they wanted to show. Even with the message they wanted to show, it still goes out the door when the MC doesn't even stick to his own words.
Even though he couldn't convey what he wanted but as he said he doesn't want to make his readers sad who wanted happy ending with JY. So ig it's fine. Love won in the end.
What kind of lame ass letter was that? Did a middle schooler write that, "meanie, i hate you" I'm trying understand Jooin thoughts but he doesn't seem to know his own feelings or refuses to actual say it. Even when there was a opportunity to say I love you he didn't. I remember someone said that Jooin falling in love felt more like pity and this chapter kinda points to it. Something is lacking I feel like chapter 100 would've been perfect to end it there than this actually chapter.
The author trying hard to give credit to Jooin for Cain life trying make him important when he did nothing for him. They're trying hard to make jooin still part of his life. Cain realize YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DECIDED not Jooin. Cain was ready to leave before their talk. This is what you did for yourself, not the idiot.
You can tell the author wants both ML's to constantly remember Jooin when Jooin gave nothing to be remembered.
The difference is Cain didn't run back and ruin his happiness that he learned over the years, Cain really is the winner.
"Cain didn't run back and ruin his happiness that he learned over the years" so fucking true. But I don't get the author they obviously want show Cain being free but are still schackling him to Jooin talking it was an order and still calling him master... they really do want Cain story to center around someone who does not care for him. The author so obsess with first love they refuse to let the 2nd ML move on.
Like it or not Cain isn't a real person, doesn't have a real personality and doesn't live in the real world. If the author uses him to say it was Jooin who decided, and not him, then that's the truth. If the author gives credit to Jooin for Cain's life, then that's the truth.
Time to just accept the story and characters are badly written, instead of projecting stuff onto them that contradicts what the creator themselves says.
This looks like it's trying to justify all that bad that happen making it as if Jooin was only at fault for his choice in leaving. Like he didn't try ,which he did unlike someone. Just wanted to laugh because I saw a reader on twitter say Jooin is replaced by a jeff and I agree because this Jooin is different from the Jooin who was consistent in keeping distance from the toxic one that hurted him..
This jooin also doesn't lie about how he actually feels. This jooin faces things head on than pretending to be tough and "keeping distance" when all he needs was to accept himself with his feelings regardless of how ugly they were. He only used Cain as an escape route like how all immature people do when they're heartbroken.
It's called growing up mate. If you're the same today as you were 5 years ago, then, I'll be fucking worried.
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING!! Saw someone say the condoms don't fit yahwi because he's too small, that they slip off easily
PLEASE
Story aside I really love how beautiful the art is and how some scenes are portrayed so smoothy and so sensually. God I just love how Doya hand placements are drawn. I just know once it's time we'll see how passionately their scene are
I came to check a dialouge everyone was talking about and in the eng it isn't noticeable but wow what a disappointment. The dialouge is a huge turn off. Basically when yahwi said "that's one way turn a guy soft" after seeing Jooin have condoms, it implies seeing condoms like that will make their pp soft, implying if someone saw that they wouldn't want continue and lost desire... Author you're supposed make this look passionate wtf is this?
Curiosity settled. Have a good day.
I feel like he was implying that jooin was having a lot of sex and needed condoms. He hadn’t slept with anyone since and I think he was upset thinking jooin had all these partners this whole time. That’s why jooin said it’s not what you think
Yea that's exactly what he's implying. Jooin didn't need to defend himself either way because why can't he, they weren't together anyway. I find it distasteful it was written in as if its was wrong for Jooin to have partners during that time and make yahwi imply he lost desire after he saw the condoms. It's not cute.
If they wanted to include a way to say Jooin was single the whole time they could've done it better than in a degraded way. Like Jooin saying he's been single and alone since yahwi left.
It kind of gave me the ick when I read that. I didn’t like the way the authors made it sound like Yahwi was “shaming” Jooin for it when it’s not bad at all. At least Jooin had protection and he shouldn’t have to explain himself because as you said they weren’t together and a lot of time passed. It wasn’t cute at all and it suddenly brought me back to season 1. Also the thing about the condoms not fitting when an average condom can fit a whole arm if someone wants to... yeah idk what’s going on these last chapters but it is what it is.
Exactly that was my problem, like this is supposed to be about two lovers enjoying their time but made into something a bit shaming. Then proceed with cringe dialouge. I instantly knew the two reasons they wanted to add it
1. Say Jooin hasn't slept or been with anyone during the timeskip
2. Say Yahwi "big"
Please a snug condom can fit any size, I think it's stupid BL writes always write that in. This should've been a sensual moment but it felt like a teenage wattpad story.
PFTTT I came here too to check out the line people were referring too. I was able see the spanish and korean versions. The english is close to the korean line while the spanish is still saying the same message but explained it more detailed. But I agree with your take. This was a whole miss opportunity. It's been years you think they make it passionate as you said they should and make Jooin be seductive but he's acting like he was in season one. Definitely disappointing.
This is simply trash writing at his best. Ad as if it wasn't enough what you pointed out, even the reply is worse: "None of these fits", like he scanned all the drawer one by one e not just because he wants to paint the MC like a poor slut who will still want to do it without protection. And then there are still braindeads out here writing poems about how much everyone has grown up in this story. Like GTFO, if you don't have basic comprehension skills!
Can I ask what the korean directly says?
"Way to make my erection die/go away, Jooin"
Basically, saying his ity weenie got soft and is no longer standing
My goodness this chapter should've been written like a first love embrace by its all child play writing thank you for answering me tho. Maybe they'll improve next chapter.
Kinda crazy seeing tj stans say Jo doesn't have a chance because he's trying monopolize Ian. What do yall think tj been doing for the pass 16years?
they're a bunch of hypocrites for real lol
hopefully this manhwa show how different jo handles his possessive thoughts about ian compared to tj, hope he doesn’t become tj 2.0 as if one is not menacing enough
Agreed. The author is showing that both do have extreme flaws but is protraying the difference in reaction of both ML's obsessive love as both are quite opposite of each other. There's bound to be parallels between them as well.
i’m sure there will be, we haven’t even reached the conflict part where jo getting involved with the gang drama
Jo is the one trying to prevent Ian from seeing TJ tho. TJ left them alone when he saw them together. And TJ is fine with Ian fucking other guys, Jo isn't. TJ never purposefully cut anyone out of Ian's life, he was simply the only one to stay with him willingly and even felt guilty about being happy about that.
as if ian want to fuck other guys out of fun, he does that so he can tire himself to sleep at night, all jo said was “don’t toy with ppl’s feelings like that” and ian take that into consideration and actually did it WITHOUT jo forcing him to, even jo asked him why he hasn’t been sleeping around lately, and this change is A GOOD THING for ian. also let’s not act like jo doesn’t feel bad for preventing ian to talk with tj, he said it to himself “i’m not as good as you thought i am” yes first it was out of jealousy but then he saw ian fresh from crying and can’t stop thinking “what happened that day?” jo ain’t no saint but he’s DEFINITELY the better choice for ian than TJ
Thank you.
Didn’t they also try to justify him indirectly hurting Ian? I don’t think I’ve seen ONE TJ Stan on Twitter admit how TJ indirectly hurt Ian—emotionally and physically.
We're not talking about what Ian gets from the other guys, we're talking about TJ and Jo's reactions.
Jo's been creepy and manipulative about Ian. He's been reacting weirdly to TJ calling Ian before he even knew the guy. He's been jealous since the /beginning/ when he barely got to know Ian. He immediately starts asking invasive questions like "Then what about someone you liked...". "Does that guy come by often?" "Most? Most are cool?" and then he clenches his jaw and gets weird. He gets rejected and goes "This has never happened to me before and I'm not sure what to do". He gets upset because he's "not that close" or didn't know sth about Ian after seeing him literally a couple of times. "He probably slept with that guy, too... I wonder for how long..." and then a panel of him looking pensive. "I'm definitely not going to tell him that guy stopped by" but then when TJ disappears he talks about it all of a sudden and changes the topic when he doesn't get the reaction he wanted. "[...] people can't help but stare at him. It's pissing me off-", he can't stand people even /looking/ at Ian and at that point they're not even close to being together. He literally gets a gun, zones out and leaves his childhood home early to go confess. The whole confession and sex scene are weird for me too, but that might be just me. "How great would it be if he was mine forever?" And he's the one having a dream about another guy fucking Ian, telling him "I've been inside him so many times...", then hovers creepily over Ian and makes a hickey where the other guy kissed Ian in the dream. He's obsessing over "Who he met and what he did...", "It makes me angry". He's even creepy about the Chris situation? And Chris is actually scared of him. He literally just ignored Ian, used his body and fulfilled his own fantasy without consent. "Don't do this with anyone else. Only do it with me from now on-"
Yeah, Ian stopped sleeping around on his own. It doesn't make Jo constantly thinking about it any less weird. And he didn't do it after the "don't toy with people's feelings", he did it after TJ disappeared and they started spending more time together. And I don't get your "even jo asked him" like it's a good thing. The "What do you mean it's been a while...?" "Really? Why...?" is... weird, he's not surprised, he's prying. And he gets ridiculously excited and /pushy/ when he's told that it's because of him, because Ian considered his feelings.
I don't know why you think he feels bad. The "I’m not as good as you thought i am" is one of the biggest red flags and he doesn't look even a bit remorseful in that panel. He looks /determined/, it's literally after he admits to himself "[...] am I being posessive? [...] Does that mean that this feeling is dangerous? I definitely can't say it's pure. [...] it doesn't matter. [...] I know clearly what it is that I want", he's willing to be manipulative because he's going after what he wants. He went with the "Don't dismiss that consideration of his", using TJ's "consideration" for his own gain. Earlier he would catch himself on his weird behaviour and go "What am I thinking?", he doesn't anymore because he's okay with it.
He /wanted/ to prevent them from meeting. He was waiting for Ian (lied about that too), saw Ian running after TJ and /sprung/ to action. There's literally a huge red-colored panel that certainly doesn't scream innocent intentions. He sees TJ, has a calculated (imo crazed) look and desperately calls Ian's name and then catches his hand when Ian doesn't stop.
While TJ distanced himself since their fight all the way back in season 1. He had some revelations after the accident and told Ian to stay away and stayed away himself.
They're both posessive and TJ had a couple of creepy moments at the start, but the further we go and more we know, his seem more justified, while Jo only gets weirder. I'm not saying Jo's doing it to purposefully hurt Ian or that he's doing it by force but he is manipulative and he aims to get Ian for himself. He believes himself to be justified, that's one of the problems.
“ He believes himself to be justified, that's one of the problems” —Now I don’t think he thinks that. He knows what he’s doing is wrong and is self aware.
“ TJ had a couple of creepy moments at the start, but the further we go and more we know, his seem more justified” — What things that he did are justified?
Also I ageee that Jo is getting more obsessive/possessive.
I should probably stop using the word 'justified', huh? sksk maybe idk how to use it well
Ah no, yeah, he thinks he's "not kind" etc. but he 'wants well' for Ian. He believes he's 'good for Ian'. Or that TJ is 'bad for Ian' even tho he barely knows them and anything about their relationship.
There are moments that seem creepy but then start making sense. I mostly remember things from the raws now tho since there was a lot of backstory lately. Like him getting mad over the name David Kim seems more reasonable. Or he had a whole internal monologue about how he trapped Ian with guilt a while ago but the scene actually shows him trying to be considerate and not like it was his conscious decision to make Ian feel indebted. It might be that he didn't even think about it that way until Ian used his own words when he got his leg broken. Or the flashback where TJ said "So now... it's really just the two of us left" was already shown and seemed weird then but in context he's feeling conflicted about it, guilty about being happy that they're close because Ian is in a bad spot. Once again, he didn't cause that, he was simply the only one who remained by Ian's side while others cut him out. They were friends while Ian had other friends and girlfriends before. TJ tried to help Ian, he didn't try to take advantage of him. There's also a theory on why he didn't like Jo from the beginning that seems plausible to me. From the older ones, the scene where Ian's leg was shattered was chapter 17 but when we got a depiction of TJ's trauma in chapter 26 it made more sense. I said "seem more justified" because while they're still there, the scenes don't seem as ominous or creepy as they did before, they're easier to understand.
On the other hand the scene where Jo prevents Ian from talking with TJ seemed innocent at first and just got revealed as Jo being possessive and manipulating the situation.
It's like the more insight we get, the more we get of TJ's 'good' side and Jo's 'bad' side.
Yin Yang shit. And honestly I’m kinda not too surprised that Jo has become possessive although I don’t see why he’s so into Ian despite knowing him for a few months or less (I don’t remember but it’s short time).
We can be mad that he’s kinda stepping between TJ and Ian, but that is part of the story. Without Jo’s intervention, I doubt the story would’ve started or progressed, I think the author is going that way. Otherwise she would’ve just started it off with Ian and TJ rather than focusing on Jo mostly and Ian. And then we see TJ and Ian’s backstory.
With the Orion and Hunter story theory, all main leads are involved and play a role. So we can be mad, sad, but all is part of story and one can’t progress without the other in my opinion.
And I’m just frustrated that some people are actually mad at Ian for sleeping around. That isn’t even an issue nor problematic. Both male leads know he’s doing that. Jo isn’t okay with it clearly but he and Ian have not established any relationship nor w TJ.
I’m sure TJ feels remorse for some of his indirect harm to Ian. That’s why he’s redeemable in my opinion. There hasn’t been any of those common stuff like “rape” “Uke being constantly assaulted”, if I remember correctly.
While I agree that TJ tries to help, he focuses on the gang life a lot and Ian doesn’t have the same priority as him. I think TJ is doing this all to somehow protect Ian but he doesn’t realize Ian is hurting and is on the edge every time he feels like the other is going away.
I do think TJ took some sort of advantage of Ian’s guilt for him. It was even said in one of the chapters (below ch 30 I think or less). BUT that doesn’t mean I hate him, he knows what he was doing and was guilty for that. I don’t hate any of the characters right now. Do I dislike what they did? Yeah. Are they irredeemable? Nope!
Compared to other MLs from other stories, TJ and Jo are on the calmer side…and for Jo specifically, hopefully he stops manipulating cause that shit isn’t it…although it adds more drama to story and I do enjoy it, it can’t be a forever thing.
Same, that’s one of the things that made me wary of him since the beginning.
Yeah, the story needs all of them, they’re all driving it forward, leading other characters to grow. It’s about all three of them and their relationships. They also all have their flaws. The author is crafting the story really well. And it’s one that kind of needs to be reread to wholly grasp it.
Yes! The comments are vicious about Ian. The slutshaming is atrocious.
Nah, their relationship is wholly consensual, they just made a mess out of it because of the circumstances and by being codependent and emotionally constipated. They both try to protect the other and both feel guilty and make it even more complicated. As Ian said they’re “going in circles” but are also unable to let each other go.
I think that’s the moment I was talking about. He probably leans on it, thinks that’s the only reason why Ian is still with him. But it’s not like he manipulated Ian into it and we haven’t seen him bring it up either. And even then he feels bad about it.
Overall: yeah, I agree.
I've been looking at some chapters and it reminded me of something.
It seems like Ian became numb to killing (”I don't feel anything... Should I feel something? (Words like "unconditionally" and "for each other" were just my arrogance.) This isn't normal unless something's broken.”). I think TJ is worried about that. Like when Ian says “I’m gonna kill them all”. Imo it might have something with why he let Ian go to prison but that’s just my theory. And TJ seems to be having doubts? “What exactly... have I been doing this for... all this time?” - since he’s been doing everything for Ian but it doesn’t make him better off? And I might have also missed something but do we know what Jason promised TJ? The promise he said he can’t keep that TJ’s been worried about.
Also Ian doesn’t want to let TJ go. There were already signs of it since the beginning but there’s only more and more of them. At first it could seem like TJ was more obsessed with Ian (a red flag if you will haha), but Ian is just as obsessed with him. The relationship was portrayed as more one-sided when the story started but with time it became clear that it’s not. Ian is the one who always says that he’ll go away but never does ("Asking 'why don't you go abroad...' what a useless question" with TJ's smile as the background, always answering "When are you leaving?" with "I'm not sure", and he was supposed to go away when he gets the money after Jason’s death but instead he came to the funeral to say ‘TJ you need me’). And even if he would leave it would be for TJ, he thinks /he’s/ ruining TJ and TJ’s life ("That'll be enough time for him, too", "I knew everyone I love eventually becomes miserable", “How much longer am I going to be selfish…?”, I think there was also sth along the lines of ‘it’s my fault’ somewhere). He's the one leaving things at TJ’s place, sth people do to have a reason to come back. He had a breakdown and started looking for TJ “Is this what I really wanted?” immediately after their fight. He waited for TJ to call him. He went “I’m gonna kill them all” and showed up at the funeral with “It’s not like we only have today”. He even forgot that TJ /can/ leave him, “If there’s one thing I overlooked that day, it’s the fact that you also had a choice, not just me. And just like that, Oh Taejoon disappeared without a word. Oh Taejoon… Where are you?”. “Is he determined to bear the burden of everything? All by himself? After badgering me over and over saying he needs me and that he wanted me to come back, why is he doing this now…?!”. Ian is looking for TJ, hiring someone to dig up information, going constantly to their favorite places (”I have been coming around here too much lately”). “Maybe you really decided to let me go. And this might actually be the end of us.” - he doesn’t seem happy about that. And even when he leaves the burger place it's 'for TJ's sake' - “I better lay low even more instead of poking around for nothing. That’ll be the best thing for Oh Taejoon too. I’m only a nuisance to his plans right now anyways”.
So what I'm saying is... now we really can’t say that Ian is 'trying to run away from TJ' like lots of people did in the beginning and still do. People are stuck on that first impression of a one-sided obsessive relationship.
Sorry if I'm spamming you sksk it's just it's been great discussing it with you and I have a lot of thoughts
You read nice and enjoy analyzing I see. All I think is that what you described is an unhealthy codependent relationship mixed with unresolved traumas and feelings. This is something needed to be solved before they reach somewhat of a story conclusion.
They’re constantly thinking of each other and while that may sound nice, it’s really codependent and sad.
Yup! It is. I'm not saying it's not, it totally is. It's just not a one-sided relationship - TJ being the only one chasing Ian and Ian trying to run away. Maybe they're breaking the cycle now with TJ refusing Ian's help, or maybe they're just doing the same as before with TJ 'protecting Ian', we'll see.
I don’t think it’s a one sided relationship but it’ll remain a codependent relationship which is personally worse than one sided love. Codependent isn’t healthy one bit. Maybe they are going to break the cycle. It’ll involve all main characters for sure, one can’t progress without the other, Vice versa.
omg speak on it. I've given up on trying to look at what people are saying on twitter when it comes to Wet Sand. it's genuinely so bad