raindragon's Topics (517)

She's referring to fake Ciel, the one we've been following along with the entire story.

She's basically going "I was so happy with fake Ciel, would I have been as happy with real Ciel?"

thank you. that makes sense and I thought that, too. I have big questions about the rest of her comments, though, that surround that statement
I don't like it when ppl call Ciel a fake, by the way. No offense. I'm sure you don't mean it in a bad way. It just sounds bad to my ears

Actually, it's the other way around. OCiel came back, but she thought he was RCiel, and she was happy for him to be alive, obviously. If she had known that it was OCiel from the start, aka NOT her fiance, who survived, would she have been as happy with that information?

This is Lizzie's struggle. She breaks down after that because she couldn't believe she could think about something that horrible. And she doesn't try to justify it, like "well he's not my fiance, why should I care?". She's genuinely upset that she wanted one twin dead over the other. And that's a good thing. The fact that she's upset over it means she's self reflecting and growing.

Wasn't it more that other Ciel came and told her our Ciel has been lying for the past however long. Like other Ciel was her fiance and she didn't notice it wasn't him and so she feels obligated to back up her fiance even though she's been bonding with our Ciel so she's torn.

Yes. Lizzie is confused about whether she loved the boy (OCiel) because he was named "Ciel" or if she loved him because of who he was. But, since he lied about who he was, she believes that not only her feelings for him are false, his feelings for her could also have been false. He would HAVE to act like he loves her to pose as RCiel properly, and feign all the memories of their childhood they shared. He put up a farce; acted nothing like he used to. And Lizzie, for all she claims to love RCiel and not OCiel, couldn't tell the difference. This could either be because she didn't love him as much as she thought, or because OCiel is just too good at lying.

Along with her struggle of considering that she would have preferred the return of RCiel over OCiel when he first came back, she is also learning that she can't trust her love for either boy, which is a big part of who she is, sadly. So she abandons the liar, sticks to her duty as a fiance and knight, and chooses RCiel's side.

Now, whether RCiel is gonna love Lizzie back like he used to is a matter of argument, but I think he's gonna have a problem with her sword skills. Once she realizes that RCiel isn't gonna love all her strengths, she might consider talking to OCiel again. But again, he's a liar, and she's not obligated to trust him because of that.

(Sorry this got long, but I defend Lizzie's choices and struggle)

but shouldn't a person be happier if they get their loved one back rather than someone else? I would be. It wouldn't be a moral dilemma for me at all. I don't think it would make me a bad person with horrible thoughts for wanting someone dead. The fact is, I didn't want anyone dead. I just wanted my loved one back.
She got something totally different back. I think that on reflection she would arrive at the conclusion that she was lucky to get the opportunity to be in love with OCiel rather than RCiel, but now she has no way to get OurCiel back, and she's probably going to find out that she was right to be happiest with OCiel, and better off had she never found out that RCiel was back from the dead.
Does that make sense or am I way off?

The problem is, it IS a moral dilemma for some people. Yes, no one wishes death upon anyone, and you do want your loved ones to be safe over everything. But you're still preferring someone dead over another, and some people can't cope with that kind of burden. They actually tackle this issue pretty well, emotionally speaking, in an anime called Death Parade (it's very dark, but I highly recommend it).

At present, she doesn't know if any of her feelings for OCiel are valid, because he did lie, and he did act like someone he wasn't, and he could have acted like he cared about her. We know that OCiel did care about her, but she didn't. And there's no way she COULD have known. It's a matter of trust and communication, neither of which she can do with him now for obvious reasons.

So more information needs to be given about her current relationship with RCiel. I have no doubt she loved him in the past, but they've grown and changed since that attack on the manor. They've kept secrets from each other, and may be keeping more. Would RCiel love her for who she was, even her sword skills? Can she love RCiel as he is, as both a Bizarre doll and a suspicious character in this mystery? Did OCiel love her for who she was, or was he just placating her to make sure she didn't find out the truth? Can she love OCiel again, or did his years of lies create a permanent wedge between them? Does she love either of them anymore?

That's the essence of her dilemma. Naturally, she's going to calm down and think about what happened and what she feels, and maybe she'll come to the conclusion that OCiel did love her, even with the lies. She just needs some time.

You said, "you're still preferring someone dead over another, and some people can't cope with that kind of burden." I say that people who can't cope with that are the ones who live in cotton wool cocoons. It's a waste of a moral dilemma.
If you could pay 50 dollars and save a life knowing that it would mean that someone else would die because they didn't have someone to pay 50 dollars for them, that would be a moral dilemma. Not wanting anyone to die is just a sin of presumption.
I think that we are meant to have gotten that Lizzie knows OCiel cares about her. He's shown it to her many times, the ring incident, first he forgives her for breaking the ring then he saves her life in the episode with the ring and the doll master. He tells her he will protect her with his life on the compania. If she doesn't know he cares about her, she's one big daft whacko. I don't care if this information came from the anime or the manga by the way.
OCiel has told her only one lie. He let her think that he is RCiel. Anyone in her position ought to understand his reasons without needing any big explanation or apology, especially since if anyone should know which is the nicer twin, it's elizabeth.

I think you're getting a little off track. The line is "If it hadn't been "Ciel" who came back three years ago, would I have been as happy?"

Thus implying if it hadn't been the Ciel who DID come back 3 years ago, AKA OCiel, who came back. If it had been RCiel who came back, who she have been happy? And the original question which Ciel the line was referring to. We can argue moral dilemmas and opinions all day but we don't know what the author was thinking or what Lizzy was thinking. But I feel like the line is pretty straight forward.

a little? lol. Dude, I am way off the track. What I wanted her to say is, "The truth is that I'm glad OurCiel is the one who came back." but I just wasn't sure. I also want her to pay bigtime. Maybe less for turning on OurCiel than for humiliating him, calling him a liar in front of the police and almost everyone who matters in the entire story, and framing him as a serial murderer, which she knows he's not. She went too far. My stupid soft heart just froze when I saw the look on his face as everything crumbled around him.

mio, I apologize. I thought you were talking to me, when you were talking to Saskassama.

Stealing translations is a big yikes, sorry this happened to you.

Wtf? What are you talking about? I translated it from spanish( what made more sense for me than your translation). I checked your trans at the beginning and compare this to the spanish one and this was a bit different on some aspects(this would be so easy for me to ask for your consent. So I simply could clean and edit without any headache but i thought the spanish one seemed better)
I’m not an expert but I even searched the original trans of little prince and How can i hold you poem by Borges(what I understand very well since I can talk spanish) to try to convey the feelings and you claim that I stole it from you???? What a loss of my time.
Dont even try to come for me cus some phrases looks alike cus anyone can put the original chinese kanjis on google trans and you will get the same results cus the majority of your trans is made by google trans.
Btw I already said first season has an extra.( im not stupid).There are already three seasons.

I cant believe that I lost my time( days) for this.
Well people, go to read this girl trans since she wants this so bad.
I’m super done.

It's clear from your post that you don't have enough command of the English language to have come up with this translation on your own. Next time please be more honest. Give credit where credit is due so your integrity doesn't come into question.
I'm glad that you at least admit that you used my translation instead of denying ever seeing it. I can tell, of course, if someone takes from my translation when they use much of the same wording, same interpretation. same phrasing. Like anyone, along with all the hard work, I put a few things into my translations that will tell me if someone has taken from them.
Maybe you're not aware, but many many people read and commented on my translation, and they can see what has happened here.
Again, please be more honest next time.

thank you. that's nice of you to say so

Do you have any proof of your accusation? A link to your translation or something? Saying 'find it on my home page' hardly counts as evidence.

Here's the link from my list in case you couldn't find it on my homepage here on mangago: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/hyacinth/

READ THE FINAL CHAPTERS! Jiang xi and Xaomi's. Look over there See Pt 4&5 links~~~~>
1. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eDqjTU-5cozSocEqTeEQ1ZrvQA3J9n88eRnLsey0anA/edit?usp=sharing
2. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tfaxl6h7CaWTSliCEJk08fPZ21dzHXvaLStDnwb6TJA/edit?usp=sharing
3. https://docs.google.com/document/d/13nvB_qgAEI43bPBalFg3JE9PdoU6cjiMM7TUgjuIrVY/edit?usp=sharing
link to the raws if you want to look at the doctor's part: https://m.ac.qq.com/comic/chapterList
the docs have time and date stamps

I DID READ THE CHAPTER AND IM CONFUSED HE LOOKED DRUNK TO ME??? sos caps

intoxication is intoxication regardless of being blackout drunk or losing their memory

Adults lie all the time when they need an excuse for anything. "I was drunk!" it's the universal disclaimer. lmao The fact is you can't tell by looking if someone is drunk. Of course if they're stumbling, passed out, or slurring, you're a damned rapist if you take advantage of them.
but with some people, you can't tell by looking, so welcome to the world of adult problems. Things are not always crystal clear. LOL this should give a few of the people who are constantly calling rape some trouble

if he was drunk enough to lose his inhibitions while talking with the doctor then he likely did not have the rightest of minds im not saying it may not have been consensual!! but still something to consider

that's true. hell, some people need a drink just to get up enough nerve to have sex. of course, at that point, I'm sure you'll agree, they're still responsible for their actions. I think the doc might have used a little doctor-charm to get him to open up and spill his guts. clever.

in my opinion, no rape is rape he was in no position to consent the only reason I'm upset is that rapists constantly target drunk people and use the excuse "well they could consent" and doc-charm looks more like manipulation

Rare? He is an arrogant prick and that is not rare at all, not irl not in yaoi. I bet the author will try to rectify him in a way but that does not make him likeable.

Yeah, yeah we would and people can deny it just assholes come in all shapes, sizes, pedigrees, sexes and races. If they have the right moves you may hit it once.

The reason people are feeling bad for Dojun and against the Doc is because he did rape Dojun. Dojun WAS DRUNK and cannot give consent therefore, he isn't sexy and he's an asshole who deserves to be slapped. There's a difference from knowing what you like, RESPECTING the person you're interested in and treating another person as a piece of meat you want to bang, especially while they're drunk which isn't just in poor taste, it is rape. It's a popular trope in manga, especially yaoi, but people are allowed to voice their opinions, just as much as you. You could've handled that comment a bit nicer but it's fine.

Did you already forget all about who this character is even though he's all through the first part of the book. why don't you keep track of who is who instead of this knee-jerk reaction. Jesus. get a memory

If the doc doesn't know Doujin's drunk, if doujin doesn't act drunk, goes along willingly, and if the person himself, doujin, a college degreed adult who is old enough to know his capacity for liquor appears sober, then the doc is not a damned rapist, and you're an immorally bankrupt asshole for passing that kind of judgement on someone. This shit isn't black and white no matter how hard you and the rest of the teenyboppers try to make it. Stop throwing rape around like a one size fits all latest fashion in crimes, like you can or have the right to call anyone a rapist while you're sitting on your fat ass reading yaoi. Rape is pretty rare unless you make everyone and everything all about it. Get your head out of the gutter.

The Doc knew he was drunk????? Idk if we've been reading the same thing but he's a rapist for taking advantage of a drunkard and that's just how it is. The reason some of us are saying something is because it is sexual abuse to take advantage of someone who cannot give consent. Rape is not rare in manga, especially Yaoi, it's just usually played at something like this. Something that's not treated as a big deal.

You really don't need to be calling anyone names. You're being too uncalled for honestly but yeah I'm done now. Enjoy the manga, have a good day and stay safe during this virus epidemic.

I somewhat agree with the both of you.
But for me, it's actually makes the story better if there's at least a part or parts of a story that tells from a different character or other than the narrator or the MC's perspective and not just solely focus on the main character but also the others too. Also, I believe that there's more to Meyrin (and the servants of the Phantomhive house) than it appears. I'd love to know more about the other characters and they've been in the story for a long time but I agree that they're trying to make more chapters. I am also hoping that the story to get/go back to the main plot soon though. It only update once in a month and there's only been less than 20 pages per chapter lately.

But we're reading this for free though. We don't really have any rights to complain.
(Sorry for bad grammar)

I hear you, just, you know...it would be nice if Mei Rin had done something worthwhile before all the fleshing out. The bouncer just isn't a big draw for me. It would be awesome if it was Sebastian's back story. hehe

Agree with you. It’s nice to see Mey Rin’s backstory but at the same time, I feel like it was probably unnecessary, especially in the long run. I’ve kinda given up on thinking this manga will be over anytime soon though lmao. Just enjoying what I can for now ╮(￣▽￣)╭

If that’s so ,then the story would be short as shit, would only have 1 volume. That would be boring. Because I want to see his growth , his friends and his surroundings. Their stories. If they only focus on the maincharacter, there’s nothing left . It’s just a boy and he’s the queens guard dog. Goes around and gets revenge on those who hurt his parents . End there you go.

It's not unnecessary though? We stopped at a juncture in the main plot that tests Mey Rin's loyalty to Ciel. Now the author is contextualizing their master-servant relationship, which will either up the dramatic stakes or further bolster what we already knew about the strength of their relationship. Plus, this arc is all about Ciel vs. his twin, the real Ciel -- everything the plot built around his identity as the Earl has been stripped away. He's only keeping on because of his bonds with the people remaining beside him (i.e. his servants and Lau) It's only fair that they get their fair share of character development. Besides, I wonder if Toboso will have Ciel end up alone in the end? None of his servants seemed to have a choice before because they came from such shitty environments and Snake's deal is straight-up a loaded gun.

Probably, but I hope so just for curiosity's sake. (〜￣△￣)〜
Revealing it does not fit the plot, since to us, he will always be Ciel. The twin's conflict is a very sad situation, since Our Ciel admired him, but knew everyone would be disappointed if he returned instead, so he took the name. I really hope that Abberline (Underline) clears our Ciel's name, and Our Ciel wins the game!

(But seriously, give this poor boy a name!)

Me too! Σ(っ°Д °;)っ
Are they like opposite of each other, the names, or, i don´t know…?? And yes. Our Ciel will be always be Ciel! I hope that even one Person is on our Ciel site.
PS: English is not my mother language ^^"

LOL yeah, I can see the "give the poor boy a name' point.

His name was revealed before. It's "Sirius" :3

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kuroshitsuji/an/hs_v-18-chapter-145/pg-1/

oh

iT would be interesting if you're right. Sirius, the dog star.

Where did you get that idea? Did Yana Toboso come out with an announcement about his name? Won't we all feel like great fools if his name has always been in plain sight and we just missed it?

Siri is a cute name, and it goes with Ciel as a twin name. I like it. ourCiel has been shown holding a many-pointed blue star for several years worth of birthday cards done by Toboso that came out on Dec 17 back at least three years.

If it's a nine pointed star (which is how it looks) it's a good guess to assume Tobaso is referencing a natal chart containing 3 grand trines, air, fire, and earth (or water depending on the chart). There's only a few birthdays in history he could possibly have if that's the case. Interesting. A single grand trine is rare let alone three. Would anyone like to provide those dates? I can give one. Someone with that astrological chart would have huge karmic advantages gathered from multiple lifetimes and culminating in one - a brilliant person of many talents and advantages all earned through many lifetimes, but also the subject of much jealousy from others.

I see :3

This also raises issues about who Sebastian really is.

I forgot the chap about their names being told but i totaly read their mother of father said that the name was Ciel the older/first and the second "our ciel" named was Kristen....

wut? lol. I didn't see his name anywhere in anything I've read. Do you remember where you saw it? Isn't Kristen a girl's name?

One of the names Tobaso considered at the beginning was
Astre or Aster. Some are thinking that will be ourCiel's name.
In the Kuroshitsuji official guidebook it has her notes. some names were angel, angelo, and some were names of stars. Ciel's birthday cards always show him holding a star

provide proof of the queen giving him the land, mansion, and title. There has to be paper on that, and it will probably stand up as a legal name change. Prove that he is thirteen and has no medical degree or license. Provide testimony from others that Lady Elizabeth has acknowledged him as Ciel for three years. If it comes to down to a trial, he can tell his story in court about seeing his brother killed, so he would have no motive to revive him because he watched that temple burn down.
He could appeal to the emotions by explaining that he knew no one would be happy if he returned, but that if Ciel did, they'd be overjoyed.

It occurs to me that ourCiel said he was fine with being eaten by Sebastian because he didn't believe he could sustain the role of being Ciel for much past three years. He might be just as happy to let Ciel#1 take the reins

(but I doubt it)