Truer words have never been written on a yaoi commentary.. lol. Tell them again! xoxo
You can be the perpetrator now and become the victim next... and things can change completely in the next round and goes as a cycle, a cycle of violence. This story puts in a microcosm some characteristics of our social system. I was -at the same time-fascinated and horrified by some characters.
Well, it's rape whenever there isn't consent, even if the survivor cums (bodies do what they do)--but this is fiction so we can suspend disbelief and think he enjoys it (if we want to). I don't think I could say Azusa was "ravished" with a straight face. That first stairwell rape was most definitely without his consent and he had this weird crying for mommy thing going on. That doesn't mean the story is bad, just that rape is an element here.
On another note, I think that many of the people being offended on behalf of gay men are not actually gay men--at least not the people posting here. I'm sure that some gay men may have expressed concerns in some other forums, but some of the people posting here sounded like they were speaking up for some hypothetical "other" that is different from "us". The politically active members of LGBT+ community are probably more upset about the shooting in Orlando and countries that execute gay people. I'm not saying that is all anyone has a right to be concerned about, just that maybe most of them don't care that much about this issue at this time--at least that's my impression. I think it's like if you asked people at a Black Lives Matter protest if they would like to see more diverse characters in manga, some might say sure, that would be cool--but the majority are more concerned with black people getting killed than they are with those types of issues.
Speaking of DC and Marvel discussions, ever heard of the Hawkeye Initiative? People have concerns over them for representational issues as well just like the many people that commented here. Both fiction, Different genders but same process of nor8malisation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hawkeye_Initiative
http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQYu4MOFCY
http://christiegordon.com/does-yaoi-exploit-gay-men-and-do-we-care/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsKlRaiWPU
https://www.quora.com/What-do-gay-men-typically-think-about-yaoi
I found the links from a comment below
Iam gay, i migrated from japan to singapore, and im concerned like the people in the following forums above. Im not saying its wrong to have this content. Im not saying i am majority. Just say there are people concerned about stereotypes and coming from two places with gay stereotype in japan and unspoken homophobia in Singapore, it is confusing to see a lot of popular mangas about gays having the same story and trop. Maybe westerners can accept because they accept all kinds of gays so they know the difference but in the two countries ive live in, its feels different. Of coorse there are a lot of exceptions.
The orlando shooting is very serious and sad but it dont mean we cannot care about things like this. If we can make people back in my country more understanding about actual gays and lesbians and less stereotype like 'onee' with through these kind of mangas that people read, it will be nice. These kind of manga dont need to go cos ppl enjoy, but i would want more manga that is both enjoyable and make us understand. Sorry for the long message. Thank you
"this is a rare yaoi that is not full of cliches, with an interesting pattern, original characters, and a significative message: that violence exists, it's hidden behind nice surfaces and it's the worst kind of it"--------
There are so many messages in that masterpiece, but the main one, in my opinion, is that we're forced to wear masks by the society, even if it's not about violence (like in Tatsumi's case, or Karino's (in a way that it will jeopardize his career if he stays with Azusa).
"One last deep thought: it's not a rape if you fucking come like Azusa does every-fucking-time-since-the-very-first-time"------------
I'm with you!
"bodies do what they do"--------
No, they don't. If orgasm was an ordinary reaction to rape, rapists would get medals, not imprisonments. There are cases when "victims" enjoy the rape, but that's rare. Well, it's not like the rapists in rl are "the Karinos of the world", those don't even exist, he's just too perfect.
Theres a study that shows that a number of rape victims do react to the rape and feel something but it doesnt mean they want it in their mind. Thats one of the reasons why rape victims need to be told that its perfectly normal to ease their mental dilemma and guilt. Its still rape no matter what but we can differentiate between reality and fantasy riight?
Lol Hello Bitches just owned u
U got rekt by Hello Bitche$. U got rekt. Should have googled before you wrote this in. People can orgasm for any number of reasons even when pressure is applied to their teeth or their eyebrows got stroked and they can get aroused without their knowledge. So yea.... Google.
Well someone didnt get their facts right. If it was Anoni Grrl's reasoning its still ok, but u had to add that. U got rekt. Respect to Hello Bitche$
Yes, sometimes that can happen.
That sometimes is a significant number probably in the 300s considering that USA has the third highest number of rape cases in the world, above india. Im not saying rape in yaoi is bad, i agree with anoni grrl its a fantasy world, ppl enjoy stuff. Yea, so when someone didnt lay low and try to rebuff it real life without research and say its not rape, its an "uh.........." moment. Dont feed the "rape is wrong" people with inconsistencies.
After all that serious heated debate about differentiating reality and fantasy, that is one fashionable blunder. What are you doing stating such a widely known rape myth with such bold confidence?
Gives you crazy sarcastic karino eyes*
You don't have to repeat the same crap from different accounts, as you usually do. Anyways, if you were a little bit less dumb, you would notice "There are cases when "victims" enjoy the rape, but that's rare" part of my comment. Those 4% mentioned in that article is exactly what "rare" means, ASSUMING that it might be more - not good enough. And even if it was 30%, it's still wouldn't be "an ordinary reaction on rape". Not to mention that this article is more about "you shouldn't feel guilty if you had an orgasm while being raped".
One more thing - I tend to have my own opinion on things and matters..but that would obviously be too hard for you to understand.
The problem is that, when someone talks about RL and real life facts without knowing some things. The "response" during a sexual assault is due more because an autonomic response of the nervous system in some circumstances (and factors) than with sexual arousal in itself. The problem (?) is that these stories play a lot with the ambiguity of consent and non-consent and take off rape from its context for drama reasons. This story, in particular, uses yaoi tropes to show something else: matters of power and domination set in a school that looks more like a prison, an obscure place in which there's no justice. In some way it remembers me a lot "A clockwork orange" and its final message: You are not more a deviant if it is the same society which uses your violence in a legitimate way.
Ya'll are kinda annoying about the rape thing now. Like I come to mangago to read and enjoy- literally my place of comfort away from work all the bs of everyday life. Gonna mute this thread now and know that I am no hater, period- lol everything is usually meh or whatever as far as i'm concerned but Ii would employ u all to get over it and get a life or... go do something about it instead or tryna start feud over a fictitious magnificient piece of work. RAPE OF WRONG PERIOD- END OF FUCKING STORY. Whether this manga is raoe or not IDGAS! The manga is good, read or move along. P.S xoxo love for all lol...
*RAPE IS WRONG PERIOD-
lol, so tired, please excuse my MANY ERRORS- GG goodnight, time to play league.
This story is so brilliant and people find nothing better to do than lecturing others on plain evidence. We all perfectly know rape is wrong, the question is: do we even have to be worried that people who read Marvel and DCcomics will start being convinced they are superheros for real, jumping from roofs everywhere around the world? Suicide Squad will be released soon. If people cannot distinguish between dreams and reality, well, that will become a HUGE problem (not that I would dislike to meet Harley Quinn in reality. Harley, where are you, come to me babe). Btw, how many of you actually belong to the LGBT community? ...because I do and I absolutely have no problems even with the most violent yaoi ever. You know, the LGBT community used to be funnier. I don't think a few years ago we had to be this politically correct. Caste Heaven is NOTHING compared to certain gay literature. It's like everyone lost sight of the fact that this is a rare yaoi that is not full of cliches, with an interesting pattern, original characters, and a significative message: that violence exists, it's hidden behind nice surfaces and it's the worst kind of it, because victims are the Azusas of the world, those who have nothing but their courage and strength to resist. Azusa, you have my heart baby <3 and yes, I can't sleep tonight. And that's the time I would read 100 ch. of CH if I could, hoping in immoral scenes. One last deep thought: it's not a rape if you fucking come like Azusa does every-fucking-time-since-the-very-first-time. Azusa baby I love you, but you are a total bitch like everyone else in this story.