The indication at the end of the original manga seemed to be that Kaname actually loved both of them. But because of the circumstances and Kaname's plan, he chose to prioritize Yuki. In hindsight the choice actually made a lot of sense, especially since Kaname organized the death of Zero's parents. Also in hindsight, we can see shades of affection between the two through the manga which would make such an end realistic. So I personally was hoping to see that affection integrated into this sequel. It's honestly disappointing to see the manganka reinforcing a singular love on Kaname's part. It cheapens his character.
I also really hated Yuki at the start of this sequel and was disappointed with Zero, who was so beautifully complex and strong in the original. Zero in the original showed a great ability to adapt and progress with his life despite how much was taken from him after Yuki made her choice to go with Kaname. This is especially shown with Aidou. I'm usually a 'forever' kind of person because that's what fiction is for. But I was honestly looking forward to someone loving Zero as completely as he had the capacity to love.
Instead, I got Yuki steadily dragging him around like a dog, holding him tethered on a leash. Waiting while she mourned Kaname and spitting on his feelings for her. I felt his character took a massive step back by letting her walk all over him. Both for the sake of their relationship and who Zero was.
Now the mangaka seems more aware that Yuki's character was coming across as a selfish bitch and is trying to enforce that Yuki did actually love Zero. But for me it's falling flat. She has to make Yuki more like Kaname in order to achieve it. Instead she should have just gone for it and united the three in equal affection. It would have made all the characters more interesting and the annoying brattiness of Yuki less grating. It also would have allowed the focus to shift more on what went unsaid in the original manga. We already knew that Yuki loved them both (selfishly and childishly IMO). But that brings their relationship to each other as being the only unknown.
Still, I was very much enjoying Kaname's interaction with the Ai and Ren. I hope we get back to them soon. I actually thought the manga was going to focus on Ren which would have been interesting since he should have some mixed feelings about Kaname. At least he should be wondering if Kaname hates him for being Zero's kid since the mangaka decided not to go with the teased 3P. It seems she's moving back to Ai though and honestly? I have no idea why. Ai is a fun character but she's a showy one. There's nothing to uncover there, there's nothing subtle about her. There's a lot of ways to bring out her interesting points in how she relates to the world but so far the mangaka has created another Mary Sue. Being bad at cooking is not adding flaws to your character.
The mangaka's world-building can't be beaten. Her art-style is usually gorgeous (the latest chapter was off but everyone has their bad days). Where she fails is navigating the relationships. Yuki has not grown to be a generally good person to the people in her life. She's selfish and arrogant, she maintains leadership only because of her power and Kaname's legacy, while simultaneously showing none of the leadership qualities Kaname and Zero both possess. Which is truly a shame because she is meant to be a strong female character, but the character is unable to demonstrate true strength.
That Ruka maintained her affection for Kaname was honestly ridiculous. That Yori went crying to Yuki as if Aidiou suggesting she get turned very politely made me wish they broke up because girls like that aren't worth a damn. And I loved how Yori was handled so it was sad that broke the character for me. Cross had a lot of potential here, his story only getting more interesting. But that they tried to hint at affection for Yuki's mother was terrible writing, and the mangaka's trying to maintain an air of secrecy with too much dedication. I no longer care about his character at all. Pairing up everyone was a huge mistake IMO. In fiction we call it 'pairing up the spares' and it's a generally cheap tactic better left to those of us who are fanfiction writers. Shiki and Rima had a fascinating relationship where they seemed to be in sync. It makes no sense that they would feel the need to add marriage to that. It conflicts with the kinds of personalities they have.
The sense of the plot overall is extremely scattered. This would normally be forgiven as memories', but not in the manner it was tackled. You can't write a story of memories where the person experiencing the memories is mostly absent. You can't have memories without an unreliable narrator. At the same time, these memories are useless. The plot is going nowhere. Nothing will change once Kaname learns what has happened, if these 'memories' are even being consciously acknowledged. Yuki and Zero are both dead. Kaname is living a human life. He's already tackling this well. All this backstory seems meant to feed the Zero/Yuki fangirls (of which I am not one. KaZe for life - and yes I am an adult). But those of us who like Zero usually appreciate the complexity of his character. The way he chose to adapt and survive but kept getting dragged back by his past. The potential for him to become stronger and cultivate independence and become a truly good man in time (as opposed to the dog the mangaka has made him), not by inheriting power but by fighting to be better. There were indications in the original that the manganka was unequal to the task of portraying such a character as she kept bouncing around the line she would have needed to walk. But it's sad to see it come to this end.
Overall, I will be here for the next issue and the next. I hate unfinished stories and I don't hate this manga. If I did I'd just skip over it it instead of ranting about where it failed. That I love this universe so much is why it has the power to break my heart. It's just incredibly disappointing for a writer to look at something with so much potential and creativity, and watch another writer screw it up.
I adore you and agree with almost everything you have said here...except I got the idea that Kaname was young when he released Shizuka, and besides, that is not why Zeros parents died. They died becaue Rido, angered and humiliated by Shizuka escape with her lover, used his connections in the Association to put the ex-human on the list even though he was complete table and thus, sane. Zeros parents just happened to be the ones that took him out - as ordered.
I have been reading Vampire Knight since school and this is the literally my thoughts in your words.
I was so disappointed with this...
This could be so much better.m
I adore you!! I have the exact same complaints!!
I am a kaze fan for life. Will not change. So, I want to see some love for Zero.
I would have loved to see Ren and his interaction with the world.
I want to see how he tackles the bigotry in the Vampire and Hunter society. How he became who he is now. and his family.
Also, I want a story on Shizuka..her character was beautifully tragic. And her life with Ichiru is left unanswered. So many things can be improved to make this story good.
Ren as a whole is such an interesting character! He's the son of a hunter and a pureblood vampire, he's a vampire noble and forced into subservience to his sister by his nature. Ai has indicated that she has no problem giving him orders and he obeys them. He's the quiet watcher character that notices everything that goes on around him. Unlike Zero, he lacks the ability to rebel, and the strength that comes with that. He was also raised wealthy, not struggling. The potential for character development is so thick it's impossible to miss.
But it's looking like we might miss it anyway.
Can you imagine even half the things you could do with his character? All the ways you could run him through the wringer to find himself separate from his sister, his parents, and his legacy? It's such a waste!
I know!!! Ren will have a lineage of both pureblood and hunters. He would be compared to Zero and how the kiryuu lineage fell by the hunters. Would he be outraged by that? Or would he simply not care as he is not a hunter. Also, because he looks similar to zero, did Ai have any problems interacting with him at first? Did she feel jealous that he was truly Zeros son and not her? Or did she think that she could replace him but realize he was a different person. Vampires are described as incredibly possessive. But, they've not developed that to nothing more than a extremely dependent relationship. Possessiveness can have many forms from an intense need to protect to a deep deep love to darker evils. The manga has tuned down so many darker aspects of vampire life that it itself boasted about.
I feel that I can go on forever about the characters from vampire knight as it is a guilty pleasure of mine. I love the art, the characters and what it could be yet hate what it is. So I am forever forced to look forward to a chapter and be disappointed in the end.
I'd agree except Kaname wasn't the original Kaname. He was the ancestor. So he didn't have the consciousness of a child. The wiki says that he actually admitted to releasing Shizuka with the intention of her killing Zero's parents. Don't remember where though. Apparently Sara told him and when Zero confronted Kaname he admitted it.
Kaname did a lot of wrong and the reasons were not always justified. But I think he knew that. In his mind he always saw death at the end of the line. But he was going to twist the entire world around his final goal. That was all that mattered. Himself and everyone else were just pieces on a chessboard. It was a sad way to live and die.
Don't get me wrong, Kaname's character is just as rich as Zero's. That's why it's so easy to ship them. They're actually complementary. Their demons play well together, to paraphrase an author. But neither character would have been as powerful without the flaws they had, and they both had many. I love them both.
Oh I totally hear you. I'm working on 3 fanfics for VK right now and the more I get into the characters, the more I want to wax poetic about how complex the universe is and how many places it could lead. Taking 'Memories' and Yuki in general, out of the equation, most of the characters are carefully threaded through the universe in a way that is incredibly rare in manga. It makes them complex, if in varying degrees. Kaname and Zero are obviously the most detailed. But (prior to memories) each character had 'life'.
(Yuki was obviously meant to be an avatar for the reader, but that makes her a Mary Sue and a Mary Sue is a terrible character.)
If you want to know how much I love the universe, all you have to know is that I'm having Bloody Rose tattooed on my left upper arm. It's my favourite symbol in the universe, Zero is my favourite character, and it's just beautiful in general. Just need to wait a year or two in case I need arm surgery (since I'm not young anymore) and then I can get it done. This isn't my favourite manga, but it really is one of the most unique experiences out there. Psychology, politics, world dynamics, culture, ethics, survival...all of it came into play and made this truly shine beyond its medium. I don't regret reading the original, but I think it's safe to say the mangaka has exhausted her talent. There's no shame in it really, reaching our limits and stretching beyond them is how we grow. But from our perspective, it's just a shame.
Btw, have you read Blackened Wings Crimson Door series? If you are a KaZe fan and haven't, you should definitely give it a go. She's got two versions, one with 3P and one just Kaname/Zero (which is the one I read). Long, multi-chaptered books. They're the best out there at this point in time.
Give me the link to all your fanfictions!!!!
Also..yes I have read them. I have read almost all the vampire knight fiction known to man. My favorites are those where Yuki is a kind soul who wishes for the best of Kaname and Zero and also where they both love Zero. There are also some very very good self insert fanfics. If you're interested, I'll send you the links to my favorite fanfics. Some are OOC to the max but the author does a great job in storytelling that you get sucked in. While most stay true to the character.
Thanks but I'm a KaZe exclusive shipper. There are two exceptions: I don't mind Aidou as a partner but I've never found a decently written fic. I also read a good one with Kain/Zero (I think it's called 'Burning Lantern Bright). But generally it's KaZe or bust and I think I've read literally all of those. My favourites:
Crimson Series - BlackenedWing
Cross our hearts, don't hope to die - Yumiii
The Other Half Of Myself - YenGirl
Unholy Matrimony - Penguita38
I'm a little shy when it comes to posting my fanfic. I have a two short ones ready for final edit but then I think 'just one more edit' (●'◡'●)
I'll link you when I get the guts to post them <3
Should also mention I don't post WiP's because (1) I don't want to discontinue anything and leave writers disappointed. (2) The story can change dramatically as it progresses and needs an edit. If you don't mind a WiPs, I can give you a sneak peak of the long one I'm working on now. But it's probably going to change quite a bit as I refine the language, so you could say it's a little rough around the edges.
I have read them all.
My favorites are To rule the world-nariai
The week of four thirsdays- madmaend
Moon drop ' TNWwanderer
Any work by scarletdropoofink and more
If you're to piss-weak to confess you want a committment out of a guy, one day someone younger than you will come along and steal him with his magic dick.
Aaah... But if you read ch 21 (or 22?) it shows Jaeha is the one who "rejected" hanjun and asked "End What? Were we really dating?" I think Jaeha's the dick for having sex with both Hanjun and Eunho when he knows their feelings. He's the one who doesn't want a commitment. Hanjun should've ditched him looooong ago and just cut ties with him. But Jaeha's selfish ass is just stringing both Hanjun and Eunho along.
I completely agree. Jaeha is too damn selfish! He knows their feelings and still acts like he doesn't know and or strings them along. He is such a dick/asshole despite his sexiness during sex. （￣へ￣）
If he thought the original relationship was purely sexual (which explains why he didn't realize they were 'dating'), then it's Hanjun in the wrong. He didn't tell him that he thought of it as more than friends with benefits. You can't do that with FWB relationships. Once feelings change the rules they have to say. Otherwise they'll get hurt because there's no guarantee the other person wants the same thing. Also, you can't expect your partner to read your mind. You may think they should know what you mean when you do/say something, but they usually don't. If he'd had the balls to speak out earlier he would have either gotten what he wanted or have been rejected and not be kept on a leash so long. He didn't because he likely knew that he'd be rejected and decided he was okay with what he could get.
I don't remember anything in the manga that indicated Jaeha knew Hanjun's feelings.
As to Eunho, Eunho went in eyes wide open on all accounts. Jaeha isn't Eunho's mum. He doesn't get to make decisions for him. Eunho knew what he was risking and chose to risk it.
I don't think he was selfish at all. It's not selfish to have two partners, it's not selfish to have sex without committment. It's stupid to try and long term it because of how many people start presenting posessive/claiming behavior after a while. So at worst you can say Jaeha was stupid to continue the relationship with Hanjun so long and not keep an eye out for warning signs. But Jaeha I really don't see the selfishness.
As I said. This manga is about terrible things but treating people like shit because of the way they look is more relatable than psychopathy so....
Yeah bye felicia.
Is En dominating the fuch out of Ako. Tsubaki can watch. Watching him come apart would be yummy.
It was truly horrifying. What were they thinking?
This heals my poor mutilated heart.
If you watched it please leave your hate here so I can soak in it when I remember what I had to sit through. (〜￣△￣)〜
Wait there's a season two?
Lol no I don't think it's out yet, there's only a movie.
Lol.. Just finished watched it...
The only reason I watch it just because the characters development of fushimi and yata relationships.
They make it so.... Sexual.. (?). Use the same scene (not once but twice!) panties and boobs are everywhere. And unnecessary characters added.
I figured I was delusional when nobody else mentioned seeing it. But nope. That's definitely the one I watched.
It was all over the place but yeah the way they basically spent the whole time slapping you with gratuitous panty shots for no reason whatsoever was the biggest cringe factor.
Great we have the same opinion
I just realize your comment was 3 years old!!
What were we even talking about here?
Season 2 of K :D
I also didn't realize this comment was 3 years old. I still remember thinking 'huh I must have imagined season 2 then' and not even bothering to look it up. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Dude... How old are you now??
I slip out of the grave just to read manga.
I don't look a day over 132?
You?
I don't know it it was ever translated into English but I've found an Italian translation. I'll do my amateur job translating in my spare time and upload it when it's done. Give it 2 weeks to be safe.
I'll be the first to admit this mangaka has led us off some steep cliffs in the past. The last few arcs were kinda 'meh'. But they have a habit of banging out a truly great one on occasion so I stick around.
This might actually be the first that gets me to leave the series.
'Ciel' is not 'Ciel'? 'Ciel' is actually a sweet little puppy dog? Meanwhile you manage to regress his character by linking his current life and choices with sentimentality? Uh...fuck you. That is not what anyone is here for. This is not a 9-year-olds first attempt at fanfiction. A professional has a responsibility to the characters they create. I was hoping this was a con right up until the final flashback. Surely this was just a clone of Ciel made to throw things out of whack? I was anticipating the 'break' where the manipulations hit a crescendo and brought us into a new killer arc. Because there was no way anyone would be stupid enough to take such an epic work in this direction.
It seems I overestimated humanity.
Thank you Toboso-san for many years of enjoyment. Your manga was creative and remains aesthetically beautiful. I will forever cherish the character I knew as 'Ciel' and his duality, the manifestation of his complex personality and of course his relationship with Sebastian. I will finish out this arc because I'm a sucker who still hopes you can turn this into something great. But if you don't, consider this one fans' goodbye, with love.
I also totally feel disappointed that Ciel is not one person because that seems like an utter copout...I would have accepted it if the Undertaker had indeed resurrected [Our] Ciel's twin for some twisted reason, but I'd rather have this twin NOT be the Real Ciel. The brother could have been older but not named Ciel and our [Ciel] could have just blocked out the memory of a twin brother for his own sanity, like "Demon, I order you to close this memory off from my mind so that the past and my guilt won't blind me from my mission for revenge against those who hurt me" or something.
But yeah, like you said, twins and shit are death sentences for past character development. It renders said character development completely null and void because it's not REAL, or it's not organic and by the character's own hand, it's just *fated* because he's living a lie, and that's lame as shit.
I believe that, he can get a character development from this as he is facing a past that he hasn't deal with yet, just as we saw when he burned the mansion.
This I believe will be a strong mental challenge for ourCiel. He always believed tha what he was before was weak, and people would rather see the "Real Ciel" instead of the weak one. So yes his life has been a lie, and he will now face the consequences
Yes, that point was probably when the mangaka decided to go this route. I remember when he reacted in that manner I said 'yeah...bullshit'. It didn't work with what we knew about the character previously and his development up to that point. That was an excellent arc and his reaction made no sense. It could have made sense if we had Ciel reacting afterwards by being angry at himself and his own reaction, the humanity he failed to eradicate. A committment to gain control. It could have even led into an arc where he consciously sought out ways to desensitize himself.
But that didn't happen.
The thing about Ciel growing as a person is that we have seen this exact same psychological situation before. Where Ciel has had to confront his humanity and reorientate himself to his goals. That has always been the appeal of Ciel, that he is ruthless with his goals. This undermines his entire identity, and I'm sorry to say there's just no coming back from that. No matter what happens now, Ciel will never be Ciel again. There is one slim chance, and that's if he killed his twin coldly and without any emotional backlash. But even then, that would only work if he killed his twin for selfish reasons. If he kills his twin out of mercy, it fails.
If this doesn't pick up I might actually write something up myself so I can put this manga to rest in my mind. It's going to be so strange to not keep an eye out for the next chapter, excitedly click and then think about what's going to happen next.
I get where all of you are coming from but, I feel like this is exactly what had to happen. The twin thing admittedly is a bit overrated but, it also serves as a means for Ciel's humanity to be taken in the very beginning and turns him into the cruel, ruthless Ciel we know and love.
I also think that Ciel's absolute horror when confronted with his twin after all these years serves as a reminder of the fact that Sebastian is a heartless, emotionless demon and that Ciel is a young boy who has been put through too much. It helps us fully understand that Ciel is human and has weakness and emotions. In my opinion, I think the Mangaka developed our view on Ciel and revealed more of who he really is while, simultaneously showing us that he is different from Sebastian.
I also liked the shock of this twist and the fact that the Ciel we know has been living a lie this entire time. I think this helps make all the ruthless crimes he has committed so far more believable for a young boy because, Ciel has been living as his twin and the real him died along with his brother from the beginning. I think it's kind of like a copying mechanism for Ciel.
Of course, all of this is just my theory but, it's the feeling I get while reading this arc. I do think that the Mangaka could have came up with something more original than twins but, I'm going to continue reading to see how the Mangaka continues the story and delves into both Ciel's and Sebastian's past.
I love the series so much that I have hope this arc is going to be as interesting and complex as the others.
How Ciel reacts in this arc is going to make or break this for me.
One of the clever things in this manga is that Ciel DOES represent humanity. We see mirroring of this theme throughout the early manga. The side of humans that we like to ignore.
Sebastian is simple, he's got a goal, power and no limits. But when it comes to doing truly horrific things, that takes humanity. Sebastian is Ciel's tool, but the things he does can only happen with a human driving it. The potential for evil exists in the human mind. Sebastian's only independent act is seduction. This is expected as it's the way he lures his food. But he's impressed by the human capacity for evil, he doesn't drive it. That's Ciel's job.
I understand that the mangaka was trying to communicate that he 'killed his real self'. That's what I hate about it. It's cliche to the point of sickening. It's unimaginative and unneeded. We already had the trauma in Ciel's past and the motivation for him suppressing his empathy with the gang rape and betrayal itself. In addition to that, we had all the events reinforcing his distrust of others throughout the manga.
It is very obvious this wasn't something the mangaka planned all along. If I had to guess where she started crafting this plot twist it would have been around the time Ciel freaked out and had Sebastian burn the mansion. This plot line was out there by this point. Maybe earlier but not by much.
Let's all hope the mangaka handles this terrible plot twist well and makes it into something great. They have had a very shaky run where there have been some truly awful plot lines of late. That concerns me. But for now there's still a smidge of hope.
I get it. It's the same for me.
If Ciel 's reaction displays the true cruelty and evil within humans and doesn't portray him as a weak, sentimental person, it will add to Ciel's character. I still think that this has the makings of a good arc depending on the Mangaka's continuation. I hope we find out more about Ciel's past in this arc and maybe about the Undertaker's involvement with the Phantomhive family. I think this arc will act as a means to delve further into Ciel's family history and it's relations with evil.
I do think that previous arcs have been slight let downs but, I have hope that this arc will pick it back up. I am still an avid fan of Kuroshitsuji though so, I will probably continuing reading and loving biasedly even if the arc is a little disappointing.
My inner fangirl refuses to give up on such an excellent manga! (⌒▽⌒)