Seven_silly_spiders's Topics (1286)

I pray for it.

I'm like this too, bc I don't want more amnesia here. Don't bc it's only painfull

It's complete in spanish! The page on facebook is called "Quiero volver Fujoshi a mi mejor amiga" they're also in Tumblr now for some troubles with the censure. They're translating the spin off of this one and some more omegaverse.

Yes! That's it!

He....literally raped him....

exactly.its so wrong wtf

Its just like....I know its fiction but, its such bad fiction. Like this is bad story telling. Why would somebody think that writing this would be a good idea? Japan still has a long way to go. There are just so many bad stereotypes in yaoi and some of these writers really cant look past it. If you feature rape in your story, don't do it like this. This just glosses over it. Makes it seem like no big deal. This is not how a real victim would react and whether or not you forgive the person IT IS A CRIME. Rape is a crime and when you commit it you need to be held accountable. Sorry if your head was in the wrong place, sorry if it was a lapse in judgement, sorry if you'll never do it again. You made a choice and there are consequences. Gotta deal with them. Nobody is ever as sorry for what they have done as they are for getting caught.

True.
On some stories the guy doesn't even apologize or feels regret, on this one at least he has SOME reaction.
It's still rape, sure. But on yaoi world it's considered "sexy" or "hot", I gave up expecting stories that are realistic or even reasonable, so when a character shows some reaction (like this one, feeling bad and stuff) I feel like: "someone is starting to understand things o/"
Because if you think about consensual sex, most of the yaois don't have it, even if they develop into a nice relationship later, they start with a forceful act. Hidoku Shinaide would never happen on real life. All the blackmailing based stories wouldn't. Simply because the guy wouldn't magically fall in love with their abusers.
Anyway, my opinion, but you can't happily read yaoi if you always compare it to the real life. Sure, some stories push this limit and end up too disturbing to read. But in general if you analize the stories, you'll realize that asia in general has a lot weird concepts about sex and stereotypes that are horrible and lots, LOTS of cases when they don't punish forceful sexual acts.

I've actually found plenty of good consensual yaoi. I mean there is a lot of shit you have to wade through but there are good writers out there as well as good yaoi. For me its more like, I like to find the authors that have it figured out for themselves. Every country has its problems and negative stereotypes. I think its kind of stupid to chalk it up to being the country because you should always push for progress. My only worry is that so many young people use this site and honestly, when I read yaoi when I was younger I really didnt know much about the adult world so it felt realistic to me and it was hard to tell what was abuse. Thats why I think its good to write this kind of stuff in the comments so that people and kids can see.

Ok, hum, sorry, but I really didn't understand what you meant with this: " I think its kind of stupid to chalk it up to being the country because you should always push for progress"
Because english is not really my first language.
And yes, every country has its own problem.
Specifically about Japan, I know that they really have got a cultural issue going on. I know a some women who traveled there and experienced bad stuff related to the sexual kind of view, since having your panties stolen, to rape attempt in the while going back to your house.
So yeah, call me stupid, but I do think this stereotype specifically has SOME thruth on it.
If you've found that much of good consensual yaoi, please share it, I'd really love it to read them.

Oh no, I was agreeing with you that they have truth to them. I was just saying that rather than being complacent about it and saying "well thats just that country's values" is lame and instead we should question the norm, but I didn't think thats what you specifically were saying. I was just speaking in general. And actually recently I found an omegaverse yaoi that doesnt feature rape! I mean, what a find! And right after somebody told me that I'd probably never find one like that either lol. (If you like omegaverse I'll link you the manga. Though, it's not done being translated. I went through the raws though.)

I understand rape in stories where it is well written, like in Harada's work, but I just meant that this manga to me reads as though the author really is being complacent about assault and the seriousness of doing that to somebody. Harada's work is all about it and hinges on the fact that its fucked up or at least incorporates that as part of it so its clear that she knows what message she is sending. But this author writes in a way that if somebody underaged stumbled upon it (this site is filled with underaged kids), might think, "oh well if you apologize it isn't a big deal. See, this guy isn't even mad." That's all I'm saying.

Oooh ok
I get what you saying
Yeah, I agree with you on questioning the norm, and sure, please, share this yaoi about omegaverse! I absolutely love this theme *--*
I don't know if you're also into this kind of thing, but there's a fanfic featuring sherlock and john that's absolutely amazing, it approaches omegaverse in a different way the mangas do, if you're interested I'm willing to "trade" links haha
Harada is very good on what she does, and I also agree that some authors may send distorted messages, but also, don't loose your faith on youngsters. This day teenagers have many tools on their hands, sure, they could be naive and think they know everything about the world (I've been there too), but they also have a wide network where they have access to different information about all kinds of stuff. Not saying most of them would dig google to research about rape rates around the world, but I guess they're not THAT naive anymore.
I don't know, I guess I just wanna believe in the future generation haha ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Just saying but between most countries and Japan, Japan isn't the country struggling with high rates of violence and crime, particularly rape. You have to keep in mind that ALL OF THE YAOI CONTENT YOU READ are NOT for any audience other than their Japanese counterpart who know very well the difference between fiction and real life. They can disassociate themselves from the work. They /KNOW/ it's unrealistic. I honestly find this statement, "Japan still has a long way to go" pretty hilarious coming from someone who has lived in Japan and in the United States. Every country could use improvement yes, but the typical stereotype of yaoi won't disappear. It's a genre that's meant to entertain, you literally don't see the youths there ever mistaking what they see in "manga" and "anime" as something that could be used to justify their actions in real life. It's a common understanding that RAPE and the likes are a crime. This sort of tropes simply appear in most of BL because it's /popular/ believe it or not. Ogeretsu Tanaka, Ogawa Chise, Psychedelico, Takarai Rihito and Harada are one of the most POPULAR mangakas in terms of BL in Japan and notice how they all tend to frequent more darker tones of manga. Some glossed over the "rape," some didn't.

Underage minors who willingly seek out explicit porn should prepare themselves for the reality of this genre. It's the same if an underage kid decided to watch porn or an horror movie on their own despite the clear indication that it's not for their age - Stop babying the people here. They decided to be here on their terms and choices. It's one thing if they're hoping to have it occur in real life and another to enjoy a SIMPLY mindless twoshot yaoi.

P.S: Piracy is also a crime too, since we're all committing it, I suppose it's only fair that we are held accountable too?

P.S.S - This manga wasn't intended to have any fancy plot. It's legit just porn. You ask why would somebody think this is a good idea but considering Michinoku Atami's growing popularity in Japan, she's clearly doing something right.

About your P.S.S, just because something is popular, it doesn't mean it's good. Besides, what's "good" anyways?
In the end is just a matter of "is this your cup of tea, or not?"
I guess you, me and the and the other person commenting here are perfectly aware that this is a fiction, it's not acceptable in real life and all this kinda stuff, but in the end what makes me criticize and other people love this manga is about taste.
I'm ok with people liking this story, I'm not that ok with the story itself, but meh, as you said I'm aware that this is JUST a story.
You said all of the yaoi content should be read only by japanese audience. Well, this is internet, sure, piracy is wrong, but well, it's happening, people from all over the world are reading it, and guess what? I'm not from Japan and I'm perfectly aware that rape is a crime, I know it's an unrealistic world and I can tell the difference between fictional and real life.
So, it's absurd to think this is only supposed to be read by japanese people!
It's like you're saying the rest of the world is not able to read bl because we're morons .-.

It is what it is. Popular is what sells so clearly an mangaka will feel more inclined to frequent those tropes that is what I meant.

Again, why bother criticizing a manga that features the same tropes as a majority of this genre hold? It's silly to me to find a person able to enjoy a work such as Harada without critique and yet get lectured for enjoying this piece of work that CLEARLY states what kind of manga this is from the beginning. A person can like what they want, that's fine, but don't go preaching to others about morals here is my point.

Honey, that's the truth. Do you honestly think those mangakas ever wrote ANYTHING intended for anyone other than their Japanese consumers? Just because you're allowed to see it, doesn't mean they drew it for you to read. If that was the case, they would seek out an English publishing group and release it English. Again, this could change but you can't honestly tell me that they would care to cater to any audience other than Japanese.

This is why manga scanlations is a privilege. Japanese to English speakers going out of their way to translate for you is a nice thing.

Again that isn't what I'm saying, I'm just saying that the Japanese audience tend to be more laid back about this sort of thing whereas from what I'm seeing, this isn't the case for the English audience who appear prone to criticize everything.

Not to mention, even if a mangaka clearly depicts the dark undertones of rape and the likes, there is still some element of romanticizing and fetishing, so in all, Yaoi is a genre that's should honestly never be taken seriously. I just find it very hilarious that hundreds of commenters are bashing this when they should obviously be aware of what kind of content they're exposing themselves when reading /explicit/ yaoi porn. Not shounen ai, explicit yaoi porn.

Lol, u okay? I wasn't saying Japan was the only place in the world who has stuff to work on as far as social issues. I get it, ya dipshit. I like Harada's stuff too. What I was saying is there is a difference between the two though. I said this is poorly written, because it is. Idgaf that its porn, its badly written porn. I'm allowed to have that opinion. Harada and Ogawa Chise's work dont leave any blurred lines, they send clear messages. I get it, I like rape manga and porn and read it often enough to know one that I think is good versus one I think is bad.

Also, yeah, okay, minors being responsible for what they read...okay? All I'm fucking saying is that when I was really young and first got into yaoi I DIDNT FUCKING KNOW, okay? Kids have a hard time between distinguishing the realistic parts or fiction and the unrealistic ones. Especially ones with no experience with a sexual partner. So how kids learn is emulating what they see in real life and in media like tv and books, or you know, manga. When I was young I didn't necessarily know it was porn. Some yaoi is more porn than others while some is more smutty and less...straight up just porn and sex. Some yaoi are stories where two gay dudes have sex and it isnt porn its just a story with sex.

Also, okay? Why are you bothering to tell me about piracy? I know that, I dont even know where that came up in this discussion? I know its a crime and that I'm committing it?? Thanks???

Oh no! People are criticizing the media they consume! How ridiculous! Almost like...they're considering these drawings...art that....is something...you critique....

No, it seems to me you’ve clearly missed the points I was saying and now choosing to retort in a very rude manner. Granted, I was aggressive, but I wouldn’t be so rude to call others “dipshit” as you seem prone to do. You’re allowed to have an opinion, but it doesn’t mean you’re always free to address it. First, I was addressing the fact that this sort of content was meant only for the Japanese consumers. Most, if not all, of those consumers are aware of what they’re getting themselves into. I’m quite sorry, when exactly was /porn/ always suppose to depict a moving and emotional story? You’re clearly nitpicking and blinding yourself from the truth if you truly think Ogawa Chise and Harada don’t fetishize their work. Not to mention, they’d don’t always send clear messages - you clearly need to read all of their works (which I certainly have) if you think that’s the case.

Yes. It says so in the Disclaimer of ALL YAOI sites that you should be 18 years or older to be on this site. If you choose to expose yourself to this sort of genre, IT’S ALL ON YOU. STOP PUSHING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ENLIGHTENING MINORS OF THE TRUTH TO OTHERS. That’s the point. You see? This is exactly why yaoi and the likes are catered to the Japanese consumers. You see, their youths won’t be so foolish as to try to emulate what they see in media and the likes, in fact, you know, they actually make fun of it. That was my WHOLE point as to why I said this sort of work wasn’t meant for the English audience. There’s clearly a lack of comprehension and inability to disassociate real life from fiction.

Hey, this is what you said: “This is not how a real victim would react and whether or not you forgive the person IT IS A CRIME. Rape is a crime and when you commit it you need to be held accountable.”

I’m aware you were addressing this to the character, but don’t forget that you’re all committing a crime as you speak. Since you appear determined to have a /FICTIONAL/ character be held accountable for their action, why don’t we spin it on you? You know, an ACTUAL PERSON committing a crime.

Also, don’t be so foolish. I tell you how it is. You are not a paying consumer. You are a pirate. Your CRITIQUE means absolutely NOTHING to the mangaka nor will she be inclined to seek it out. Since this is a piece of work you neither paid nor were intended to see, what makes you think your criticism amounts to anything? Not to mention, you’re repeating the same criticism that everyone else has said and the only person who will see those comments are fellow readers. Are you attempting to shame other readers for enjoying this piece? Seriously, get off your high horse.

I mean seriously? Are you the type to go porn sites and give criticisms on the toxic nature of it? Do you /seriously/ think all this "criticizing" and honest to god complaining is going to make a difference?

I'll tell you how it is: this sort of content won't stop. You can honestly complain and whine all you want, but it'll continue. You think you're doing a good but at this point of time, all I see is people dragging on a manga that CLEARLY tells you ahead of time what it is. You're not helping anyone but your own sense of rightousness.

Even if you're right and what Viira says is pointless, don't you think you're trying to do the same thing you criticized some comments ago?
I mean, you may think it's useless and disagree, but you can't deny that internet it's the ultimate place to go and state your opinions. Sure, depending on what you say, you'll be attacked.
I'm just saying this was a nice discussion, it's ok to disagree, but you telling Viira to stop saying whatever she/he wants it's just as pointless as Viira or me or anybody criticizing the norm.
At least for me,the point it isn't to CHANGE or to STOP this kind of content. I'm just speaking my mind and telling what I think, I'm not expecting you to come to me and say "wow, you're sooo smart, I totally agree with you!", if you dislike it, ok, if you disagree and wanna state your point of view, that's ok too.
Anyway, if guys keep this attitude you'll just get frustrated every time you enter a discussion and someone starts being rude to you. Aand the person may not even remember being rude to you, SO, the only ones loosing it's you, who got frustrated by yourself.
Just chill you cutiepies.
In the end we'll all here reading stuff for a reason.
Shouldn't here be the place where we could state our minds and talk about gay couples, dicks and whatever and just chill about it?
(I mean, at least I don't get to talk about this with anybody else besides the people from this community) ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Not quite, because you see, I’m speaking to them personally and my “criticism” can reach to them (the reviewers) whereas their criticism is reaching to who in particular? Who is their audience? The mangaka? Other readers? Mindless complaining over a trope that’s used in this genre is again, silly? When you complain over this sort of manga that you’re forewarn ahead of time, literally on the first page, it doesn’t make me the silly one here. That’s like going in, buying a dish you know you hate and then complaining over the dish that you yourself are already aware of what it is or going in knowing you’re watching a horror movie and complaining over the injustice of the murders and violence in the show, like how “dare they depict such work.”

Actually, it has stopped before and that’s the problem with the internet, that many people simply assume you’re going to be met with only positivity when addressing an opinion when no, that isn’t the case. I didn’t agree with the way they were criticizing the story mindlessly and decided to share my opinion since they’re free to address theirs, surely I can share mine as someone whose lived in Japan and the United States.

You tell us to chill and that we’re all reading the porn, but not a lot of people seem to be discussing anything positive here. It seems more like a moral ground of social justice workers at play and shaming others for enjoying this piece of work instead which was my point.

Almost like they're actually forgetting this is yaoi and manga /and/ porn. That apparently what's being depicted in the manga is clearly what Michinoku Atami approves and endorses in real life when in truth, it's just another story she made on a whim.

ALL I DID WAS SAY I DIDNT LIKE IT. Why do you care so much??? If my comment came off as whiney just ignore it? Keep scrolling. There are plenty of other comments to read, why are you wasting your time telling me that my comment annoyed you.

I agree with you, usually I try to keep my cool when people get mad at my comments, but theirs just felt so unnecessarily aggressive. I mean, all I did was say I thought it was bad and they started freaking out on me so yeah, it upset me. But I agree! When I comment on something saying my opinion, I expect people to say they disagree and I like talking about it with the other person and seeing their side of things but not if they're just going to talk down to me.

Okay then...why do you feel like you need to police people in the comments? You're basically saying our comments werent good enough to be shared just because we left one liners saying "I didn't like this" or "that was rape" or "that was gross, this just isnt for me". Why is it such a problem for people to say this? Why are we not allowed to share that we didnt like it? Also, no you cant tell from the beginning how it will end. You never know what twist an author could put in their, maybe the dude was going to have been awake the whole time, maybe he was going to tell him off for taking advantage of him but then ultimately say he wants to be with him, maybe the guy was never going to get caught or confess and was just going to stop doing it and move on with his life. I can't read the author's mind. I kept reading to see how it would play out in the end. I didn't like how it played out in the end. I said I thought the way it played out was bad....why is any of that wrong? Why are you putting people down for saying anything negative about the work?

Also, because I just might as well mention it, based on translated comments I've read of people commenting on the people who read yaoi in Japan and are Japanese and the documentaries I've seen on it, no, not all of them can distinguish between what is realistic and it does shape their perspectives. A lot of them are straight, cis women and have no understanding of homosexuality and completely fetishize it and dont see the people in yaoi as real people. They dont see gay people as real people. I've read and watched a lot of stuff about lgbt matters in Japan and because its not something you typically talk about there unlike in places like America where they are very hot topics that everyone is starting to become educated about. I don't understand why you act like you know everything about individual Japanese consumers just because you lived there. Some Japanese people do understand what they're getting into but that doesnt mean it doesnt shape their perceptions in negative ways. It was very sad to watch the documentary I watched where a gay person talked to fujoshi and heard what these women had to say about their perceptions of gay people. Because it isnt a super hot topic in Japan sometimes people there only really learn about it in media and yaoi like this can be dangerous to those people, in my opinion. Its also dangerous to gay people in Japan who are already misunderstood and hurt and ignored as a group.

Again, if you're allowed to address your concern, so surely I can share mines and if you haven't noticed, I have.

This is the internet, after all. Anyone is free to share their opinion, no?

Again, since you felt you were free to criticize a country and a culture that you literally have nothing to go off other than what you witness on the internet and not actual experience, granted, I'll be more than happy to share mine aka someone whose actually lived in the country and experienced life there.

You're welcome to express that opinion, but it doesn't make it anymore silly of all of you to say aloud when LITERALLY the first page starts off "I raped my best friend" and there were no further tags of angst and the likes. I'm quite sorry that you weren't able to come up with that deduction with your history of yaoi reading and familiarity of this author's work which if you noticed, clearly toys with very offensive tropes in all of her work.

Also, keep in mind, I've only spoke to three people here and all of you did had to touch on the culture and made remarks as though you EXPECTED a yaoi work to depict real life consequences when clearly that isn't the case.

I'm sorry, but have you been to the country? If you actually spoke to the mangaka and many of the artists there, one's sexuality isn't a public discussion. In fact, most information of people are of private domain and aren't normally brought up. See, that's my issue. You're coming at me and telling me that my experience in Japan is irrevelant whereas you got your information from random comments and documentaries that do tend to focus on the negative aspect of life there and only one aspect of it too.

Here's the thing. You are again assuming that these works are meant to be realistic and in fact, assume that a majority of Japanese assume that what is depicted in porn is reality when that isn't the case. You are aware that if they truly do believe that what is depicted in yaoi and porn was real, the counts of rape and violence would escalate right? You are aware that Japan is rated one of the top ten SAFEST countries to live right? NOT only to male homosexuals but females too because cisporn (doujinshis and manga depicting rape of all genders, shotacon, lolicon, they feature all sorts of offensive content and yet all the same) is common in the country too.

Here's the thing again.

You're again mistakening the fact that a person's sexuality is open discussion in Japan when that isn't the case. Just like how it is in America, you'll come across areas of the country where they're conservatives and others that aren't. A majority of Japan, particular in the more urbanized areas, don't quite care for a person's sexuality. It isn't open information. It's private. Japanese people are PRIVATE people. Go to Tokyo and you'll find an eye opener there. Believe me, if you thought yaoi was truly harmful, I suppose you think the influence of otome games must be truly wide spread too? Not only otome games, but manga/anime as a whole? Let me tell you how it is. Reading manga and anime isn't a hobby that one openly admits and in fact, it's quite frown upon to be considered otakus in the likes. I can assure you now that a majority of the consumers now find it simply to be /fantasies/.

Yaoi is a genre that's dominanted mostly by female mangakas this is true, but again, if you really think the Japanese consumers take these sort of "entertainment" to heart, I'll tell you now that they'll be met with backlash and ridicule.

Seriously, do you even know what you're talking about?

You are aware that if you took documentaries as a common portrayal of an entire country, a majority of United States could be considered superficial, egotistic, and hotheaded individuals that love to police others needleesly?

That China is an entire country full of savages and cheap individvuals that only bootleg items?

That Russians are barbaric and violent people?

Documentaries bring out the truth in certain areas, but they don't depict the entire picture. You might want to keep that in mind.

Also, between America and Japan, announcing one's sexuality won't result in death and harm in Japan for the most part.

It's clear that United States has a long way to go if one's sexuality can determine if they'll live or die whereas in Japan you'll likely be ostracized at worse depending on the area you're in. Something you might want to note again.

Finally, look into the Bara genre.

You see, that content is composed of a majority of male that often depict realistic porn. There is representation of realistic gay males created by gay males in Japan. Yaoi isn't that representation.

If you find yaoi to be so offensive to your social justice nature, simply don't read it. It wasn't intended for you after all.

Ok, when you say this you're saying I can't even criticize something just because I don't agree with it.
I love yaoi ._.
And being meant for me or no, I'm going to keep reading it.
And I'll keep criticizing what I think should be criticized, no matter how famous the author is, how the topic is seen by japanese people or how realistic/unrealistic it is.
Because I love good stories.
And sometimes there are stories that are almost a piece of art, sometimes I'm in just for the porn, sometimes I'd love a twisted one and others I'm just in the mood for something sweet.
And if one of those stories disappoint me, I'm going to state in the comments it disappointed me and why it disappointed me.
If you think like this I wonder what are your thoughts about globalisation...
Because if you tell me I shouldn't mess with something that wasn't made for me, then I shouldn't consume anything that's not meant for my age, gender, social class, etc...
Which is sad, I don't wanna live in a little box with things that are only "meant" for me.
It's like you say I can't say I don't like tacos because it's a Mexican food and I'm not mexican, so I shouldn't even eat them to begin with.
Yaoi would be sushi then ._.
Sometimes sushi is good, sometimes it's bad. But in general I love it anyway.
So, I'm gonna go back to my sushi and enjoy it all I want.
Have a nice day, mr./ms. Anonymous.

Oh, also, I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway, if that happened, it wasn't my intention.
I'd actually never guess this would become such a loong discussion.

That’s the thing. I didn’t say you couldn’t criticize it, just that you’d be pretty silly to do so when the first page literally states what kind of manga this is. I was just informing you the background and environment in which the mangaka was working with aka Japanese consumers, not any other audiences.

Continue to criticize it, but keep in mind that it’s not going to change anything, that the only person who can see your “critique” are other readers in which case you already defeated the purpose of giving critic, and its more like a review for other pirates than trying to improve the mangaka’s stories.

Now that’s pretty funny. It depends on how globalization is done, but as of now, I can tell you now that the rate of which Japanese yaoi manga is being licensed is pretty low because consumers aren’t buying it. If you truly want to support the globalization of yaoi mangas, I suggest actually buying the product? As of now, a majority of the English consumers are simply pirates and in fact, that’s working against the licensing of official yaoi goods. For the most part, the impression of the English audience to most artists and mangakas are that a majority of the foreign readers are pirates and that everything must be free. (Seriously, it’s at the point where if you were to meet an artist / mangaka / doujinka, they actually beg you not to upload their work online if they were to meet a foreigner, it’s pretty sad.)

That’s a pretty inaccurate example actually. It’s like this, if your friend wrote you a story and uses references and idealisms that’s special to you, it would make sense that the content makes sense to you regardless of how humorous or offensive the content, but by some chance, someone steals that story and reads it aloud and begins to criticize it. They don’t know where the author is coming from with the story, so they take everything written in the story as the author’s ideals when in reality, your friend could have written it on a whim. Keep in mind the audience.

This is the definition of Globalization: Globalization is a process of interaction and integration among the people, companies, and governments of different nations, a process driven by international trade and investment and aided by information technology. This process has effects on the environment, on culture, on political systems, on economic development and prosperity, and on human physical well-beingin societies around the world.

At this current time, I strongly believe the reading of illegal content of yaois isn’t quite the same thing as globalization.

I'm not actually offended (other than seeing Viira literally talking about a country they have no experience in, other than what they heard on the internet and "documentaries," and assuming as though that manga reflects the Japanese's ideals and state of life) when that isn't the case.

If they want to talk about social issues, the more demanding ones in Japan to worry about that affects EVERYONE there is the conditions in which people overwork and for the little pay they receive in compensation (ie., content creators particularly such as animators, artists, doujinkas and mangakas receive honestly very little profit with their work, working long hours and driving themselves to hospitalization.) and the rigorous academic expectations to excel or be driven to depression / sucide if those ideals aren't met. Suicide is high in Asian countries, particularly Japan and South Korea.

As a said, continue to read it, it's there, but just keep in mind the intended audience of the piece was never for you and that your criticism isn't going to change anything is my point.

I didnt say I knew this artist. I didn't. I dont know what she does in her other work. I didn't even expect it to have a realistic ending with a trial and prison time. I read because I wanted to see what the writer did. Finished it and thought it was a weak ending and called it bad.

Also I'll be going to Japan this summer with my college so I guess I'll find out :) I've only been interested in Japan since I was in elementary school and studying up about Japanese culture and talking to Japanese students and teachers and being part of my school's Japanese Student Association and trying to understand a lot about Japan basically my whole life...but you know, I couldn't possibly know anything good enough or on par with the knowledge of you who lived there before.

Exactly. I didn't say every person. I said some. A portion of the population. There are real people that these documentaries accurately describe. I didn't say everyone in Japan is like that because they're not. But I'd say based on what you say about the US, is that not a really good description? It accurately explains a lot of people that live here and a culture of being too interested in caring about what other people are getting to do and not do. Its not like making that generalization is saying that is all Americans and the US are but it is true and useful information about the place.

Where did I say they would die? I said it was dangerous. It can get kids kicked out of their home, their families wanting nothing to do with them, their friends ignoring them. Those things can make them depressed and make it difficult for them to lead their lives. If they get really depressed they could turn to self harm or suicide. Those are real possibilities for gay Japanese youth. So....how can in not result in harm? You...don't count mental or emotional harm? Or you just assumed I meant people are going to try to hurt them? I know thats not typically how Japanese people work. They follow social cues and ignore people or distance themselves from uncomfortable situations or controversial things when it can become inconvenient. Not all Japanese people, but yes, I know that ostracize people.

You know, I don't understand why you guys want to act like I cant know anything about Japan because I haven't been there yet. I realize there is a lot of inaccurate information about a lot of countries out there and especially Japan. Everyone that doesn't know anything about it spreads all sorts or rumors based of niche groups in Japan or spread misinformation saying stuff there that they do is serious when the weird stuff in Japan is weird to Japanese people too and is meant to be entertaining. I try to be very careful about what I hear about Japan. I try to make sure I verify everything I learn about it. A lot of it is easy to call bullshit on but for other things I actively seek out confirmation as to the validity of the stuff I learn. I speak to people who live/have lived there. I take into account whether or not they are actually Japanese or how long they're lived in Japan and studied Japanese. I look at multiple sites and find out how valid those sites are so I can judge how much I should believe their articles. I ask people to check with actual Japanese people they know or I talk to Japanese people I know. I take it all with a grain of salt. I'm not some heartless asshole who wants to spread misinformation or act like I know everything about Japan or know more than somebody who has lived there and seen the culture in action. But you guys clearly want to act as though I do when all I did was comment on was small aspect of parts of groups in Japan. Not all of us are so lucky to be able to live in or travel to different countries so I have to work with what I've got until I get to visit Japan for myself. I care about the accurate portrayal of Japan and Japanese people and want to know more and more about it which is why I actively seek information, correct information, about it. I just don't see how you can say nothing I know about Japan is valid. Especially when you confirmed some things I would say...You'd just go into more detail or talk about a half of the same coin I was talking about. You just didn't like what I originally said and it really feels like you simply don't like me so you just want to knock down and try to prove wrong everything I say.

Then why did you bother to comment on this portion here of your comment: “ If you feature rape in your story, don't do it like this. This just glosses over it. Makes it seem like no big deal. This is not how a real victim would react and whether or not you forgive the person IT IS A CRIME. Rape is a crime and when you commit it you need to be held accountable. Sorry if your head was in the wrong place, sorry if it was a lapse in judgement, sorry if you'll never do it again. You made a choice and there are consequences. Gotta deal with them. Nobody is ever as sorry for what they have done as they are for getting caught.”

The way you phrased it made it sound particularly that you expected to have a realistic ending. Just about every yaoi reader knows that a majority of yaoi mangas don’t depict this. Not even Harada for one ever reflects in repercussions of crimes in her works and in fact, the manga tends to end in the favor of the rapist which is exactly the same of how it was done here.

Enjoy. As an army child of mixed parents, I’ve had my experience in various locations of Japan so do keep in mind that not all places behave in the same fashion. Here’s the thing. I came to America with the expectations and knowledge that you likely encountered with yours, information from the media, individuals currently habituating in the United States, attending an broad school and funny enough, what I heard of United States was unlike what I expected. You may find that to be the case for you. Your own experience often trumps “rumors and second hand knowledge.”

In every country, there is bound to be discrimination. However, the way you put it, you made it sound like a significant portion of the population suffer from it. Regarding United States, no, I wouldn’t say it’s an accurate description of a majority of the United States. As I have stayed in California, New York and Arizona, that wasn’t the experience that I had. As I said, documentaries don’t always paint the big picture and that was the case for me in both Japan and the United States.

I was comparing the severity of outing one’s sexuality in Japan compared to America since you felt needed to tell me what you saw in this documentaries regarding Japanese gay males. As I said, between Japan and the United States, I’d take my chances of publicly revealing my sexuality in Japan to the United States where the outcome tends to be far more worse. Keep in mind, being ignored and ostracized is painful but at the very least, you’re still alive. That can’t be said for the United States could it? Just looking on the news and the rate of violence and murder done towards gay individuals is alarming in the U.S.

Because you truly can’t understand how a culture could work until you witness it for yourself and experience it for yourself. Until then, there isn’t total immersion. You can ONLY speculate with the information you learned from the internet and second hand knowledge from others. It’s like this, say if you take a course to learn a language. You know the rules, the grammar, the structure and you have peers to help you out with it, but when it’s time to actually use the language on your own, you’ll find that it’s actually a lot harder and more complex than you realized. In fact, what you learned initially may not hold true at all. This is the case here.

You don’t really know how it’s like. You can only speculate. Until then, I would suggest that you don’t speak as though you know the country. The ONLY reason why I even interfered in your discussion was because you felt needed to say this: “ Japan still has a long way to go. There are just so many bad stereotypes in yaoi and some of these writers really cant look past it. If you feature rape in your story, don't do it like this. “

Your comment honestly came off as though you thought mangas, particularly yaoi mangas and the likes, shapes the lifestyle of Japanese individuals when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Those stereotypes you see in yaoi mangas may occur in the United States, but that’s no fault of Japanese individuals. They don’t need to police their content because the country is a relatively peaceful one. We can both acknowledge that Japanese works depict quite offensive material ranging from pedophilia, violence, rape, murder, incest and etc., and the reason for it is simply because the consumers often know it’s all entertainment. To engage in such behavior in reality would result in horrible consequences for them.

Between you and I, you weren’t able to refute what I said but I was definitely capable of refuting some of your comments. Bottom line, your criticism is useless. That’s it.

The intended audience was not you, you are not supporting the mangaka nor will she see your “critique,” in which case, who is your audience again? Pirated readers that came to this site for the same reason everyone else is? Bash it all you like, but it won’t change the fact that nothing will change and to expect realistic outcomes in explicit yaoi manga is honestly hilarious.

Seriously, when you visit Japan, I recommend you trying to share these criticisms you have of mangaka's and/or doujinka's work through visits, email, twitter, social media and the likes and see what kind of reception you'll get.

Although to be fair, you're likely unaware that there is realistic and "fluff" yaois out there but the only reason you don't see them translated is simply because Japanese to English translators don't find it as entertaining as the more toxic ones. It's not as "little" as you might assume them to be in reality, but until you learn Japanese for yourself, you're likely unable to find or understand them in the mean time.

Okay well I'm done with arguing. You guys were talking about how I was trying to shame people, which I wasn't, but instead all you're telling me is I can't say what I think and that my thoughts and feelings aren't valid and shaming me for sharing them and telling me I shouldn't and its worthless. I know what Im saying is all meaningless, so are the things you're saying. Its just a bunch of comments on a website that rips off scanlation groups. So why are you harking on me for saying anything at all? Why did me saying a little warning in the comments and saying to be careful of rape rile you up so much that you had to start all of this and be aggressive from the very start and clearly start a fight? I mean its kind of disturbing seeing how upset me sharing my opinions made you. I saw comments I didn't agree with but I just left it alone and made my own comment. I mean you're writing me back and in each comment nitpicking every little thing I say, making assumptions about what I mean, and then even when I say that isn't what I meant and explain myself its still not good enough for you. I've made myself clear but you still won't just drop it because you probably know already that you what you did was super unnecessary and just plain hateful from the start. You've already acknowledged you were aggressive, then brushed it off, then acknowledged that YOU REALIZED that what I said wasn't what I meant and that it just seemed like I was saying this or that but then still chastised me for the thing you acknowledged I wasn't trying to say. I don't get how what you're doing is different from what I'm did except I wasn't trying to go off on anybody. My comment wasn't aimed at anyone so nobody had to feel offended by it or criticized because like you said, the author will never see or care about my little comment. The manga made me a little upset at the end of it because I thought it had a bad ending and me saying that it bothered me, in your opinion, is sooo wrong and stupid. Yet you are doing the same thing. Just you're doing it over my comment instead of the manga. You really aren't being different than me yet somehow I'm the idiot that needs to keep my opinions to myself. You realize that I just made a little comment about the manga, which is what this whole comment section is for, right? But you are just using it to tell me I shouldn't have said anything and that my opinion is meaningless. Okay well why don't you go tell every other commenter that? Nothing anyone is saying in the comments matters so why is it such a big deal that I said rape is bad and this manga contains rape with a rushed not very meaningful ending? Some people read the comments to see whether the manga is something they want to read and so maybe my comment will make a difference and somebody will be like, "oh glad I didn't get into that, thats not my cup of tea". But either way, I don't care if it does! I just felt like saying what I felt about the manga. Seriously, why did you have to make it such a big deal? You act l ike I personally targeted my comment at you to make you feel bad. You're the one who started all of this and honestly it feels like your only point was to try to shut up the opinion you didn't like. I think its time for you to just stop.

Cool :) Making baseless assumptions about me because you didn't like what I said :) I know there are lots of mangas like that, I've found plenty that I wished were picked up by companies that translate them for US consumers or by scanlators. Don't remember where I said there weren't fluff yaoi or yaoi without dark themes....but I'm glad you could take the time to try and tell me how ignorant I am, even though you were wrong

It clearly doesn’t appear you are if you’re still responding to me.

First, I’m only one person so I have no idea why you’re referring to me as someone that’s plural. Even if that wasn’t your intent, it clearly does sound you are from your comment when you KINDLY informed us how “real rape” victims behave in a FICTIONAL WORK. That was all on you, don’t try to pretend that you didn’t write that. Honey, I’m not stopping you from doing such, I’m just ridiculing the fact that you are when it seems to me you’re forgetting the fact of just where you are aka an illegal pirating site that hosts thousands of similar offensive works. Not at all. See, as I told KBchan, you’re harking on the manga and giving critique to an individual that will NEVER SEE IT whereas I’m criticizing you, someone who can and see my critique. There’s a difference. My words can reach the intended party aka you whereas your words will never reach to them.

Honey, you’ve added warnings that everyone has clearly addressed and became redundant. I simply responded to you in particular because you had to bring up the country as though you were actually an individual from there otherwise I wouldn’t bother. Maybe next time, don’t speak for the country? It’s not as though you’re from there so how could you possibly truly know what its like there?

I think the disturbing people are the one preaching about “realism” in fictional works in all honestly as though none of you know what you’re getting yourself into when reading this genre. It would be like if I went to a forum for a horror genre and told the readers “you guys do know that murder and violence isn’t allowed right? This is not how REAL MURDER is like.” Notice the comparison of what you’re doing here, but no, I’m assuming you’re doing a social justice favor by informing the underage minors here what they’re getting themselves into?

Hey, this is the internet no? You’re allowed to speak your mind so surely I can. If you’re so offended, you’re more than welcome to stop commenting and continue on preaching about the how unrealistic yaoi is on other forums as you felt needed to here, as though the readers here need someone to kindly inform this isn’t realistic.

Granted, if I was unnecessary, so would you be so I guess we’re both engaging in unnecessary and unneeded comments but it doesn’t look you plan on stopping any time soon either.

Just because your comment had no particular subject, doesn’t mean it can’t offend people. You surely offended me with it and you’ll likely annoy and offend other readers here too because you see, that’s the audience you’re surrounding yourself with.

Hey, as I said, technically, I can’t really stop you from commenting but I can tell you how silly it sounds. I have no physical means to stop you and you’re aware of that too. It also seems to me you’re not reading my comments thoroughly when I said the only reason I criticize you was because you decided to speak on a subject outside of the manga aka Japan so that’s why I spoke.

Also, don’t pretend to be blasé towards this subject. You know if you didn’t care, you wouldn’t have bothered to respond to me in the first place? You’re the one over here who wants to inform me that you can say what you want and I said fine, continue to do so, but if you do get ridiculed for it, that’s just a part of, I don’t know, saying your opinion on a public forum.

My true intent was simply to show you what kind of the audience the mangaka was working with and that your comment was useless. If you want to go commenting on more useless rants and information, do so as how could I possibly prevent you from doing so(?), but do keep in mind that it is again useless as your audience are all pirated readers.

P.S: If a person needs someone to tell them that rape is bad, the better question to ask is why in the world are they reading this to begin with. Something you might want to keep in mind.

Actually that wasn’t an assumption. I was actually commenting back to your comment where you said it was natural for people to critique the media they consume so I decided to inform you if that was the case, you’re better off contacting the mangaka directly? Hmm, since you know that’s the entire point of critique an artwork, no? I mean, it clearly sounds like you want the mangaka to add more realism to her work so what better way to do that than to comment to her directly? (: Especially since you'll be at Japan someday ....

Oh honey, now you’re the one making assumptions of what you think my intent is. Seems like we’re both guilty of baseless assumptions. My intent was simply to say that despite all the offensive tropes you’ll find in mangas, realistic ones exist and that maybe if you do decide to learn the language as you will be going to Japan no(?), you’ll find the content that your social justice heart likely approves of.

Oh? How exactly am I wrong by any chance? That I was offensive to you just as you were to me?

P.S: You do know if you’d like to see a certain work pushed to be picked up, contacting publishing groups directly is a good way to get the titled known? As for scanlators, if you offer to assist them in their work, you’ll have a better chance of having them translated? Just an idea.

lol like I said, I'm done. Im not gonna read either one of your fuckin novella of a comments

I think you're a total narcissistic dickhole and I don't even care how long ago you're fuckin' rants were, they were hilarious and I basically shit myself reading every one of them. Get the fuck off this site if you wanna criticize the people who use it so much. LMAOOOooOoooooO

Yeah. It's irritating and heartbreaking at the same time. I hate to see the sensei like that, especially since he didn't do anything to anyone.

Yeah so irritating

He didnt. But...come on guys he is partially responsible for the situation. He could have just stop it at the begining, but he is soo absorbed in his little world..... I just really cant feel symphaty for weak willed, self absorbed characters like that.