I am going to make a case for Fei acting as Tao's guardian/ parent figure (much like any child raised by Aki and Asami would be their son or daughter and not their unpaid servant). In Fei's case, I think it is more of an uncle relationship because Fei considers his adoptive dad his real dad, and it was revealed in the novella that Tao is Fei's "brother" Yan's son (and Fei has always known this). Fei keeps Tao close ostensively to serve Fei, but there is more to it than that. Fei could hardly declare Tao is his nephew without putting Tao in danger (because Yan has enemies and some may see Yan's son as a potential future threat to the leadership of the Baishe). Besides, it kind of seems as if Fei was raised to serve Yan, and Fei still loved his adoptive father. A dysfunctional family that heads a criminal organization may have special issues, but it is still family.
Fei treats Tao like a nephew or a son, even if Fei never uses such dangerous words. Fei always speaks kindly to Tao and tries to make Tao happy. Look at the Christmas card Fei sends. This is not the card of a master to a slave. It is the warm tone of an adult to a cherished child--and Fei hid gifts for Tao. Fei lets Tao sleep in his bed when Tao has nightmares. Fei trusts Tao alone with the key to Fei's deposit box. Some may see a servant--I see an unnamed heir being able to witness the inner workings of the Baishe and be close to Fei without anyone raising an eyebrow.
It is true that Fei had a dream about sex with a grown Tao, and that Tao seems to have a crush on Fei. This doesn't negate a family relationship. In yaoi, anything is possible. Remember that Yan also had a thing for Fei despite the fact that they were raised as brothers. Incest (or psychological incest) pairings are common in yaoi. But even when Fei had the dream, Fei was not lecherously encouraging Tao in the dream. Additionally, after Fei woke, Fei was relieved that Tao was still little. AY will do whatever she wants, but right now, I still think it reads like Fei thinks of Tao as his nephew (whom he is raising).
I'm agree with you.The matter is there are people that just see that part of the story (Finder no Rakuin) as being important only for the sexual triggers it can offer, and don't consider the useful imformation that story has to complete the vision of the all Finder story. For me Fei Long's novel offers the reader mainly two possible endings: A sexual story with Tao ( the sickest of all endings) and a future love story with Yoh (the healthiest of all endings). Another possible ending can be Tao and Feilong going through the darkness of their existence hand in hand as a father and a son.
What you miss is that it doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what Tao thinks and Tao obviously doesn't see Fei as his father or his uncle or anything other than another man he is attracted to. You can list all the examples you want of how it seems that Fei considers Tao family, but it very clearly wasn't obvious enough that Tao feels he is Fei's child. To argue otherwise is to accuse Tao of having unnatural feelings.
And LadyLigeia, there are far far sicker endings possible than two biologically unrelated people eventually establishing a romantic relationship. Come on.
Does it matter at all what Fei thinks? Wouldn't both people have to be on the same page about that?
Also, why does biology matter if it's two men? Would you have a problem with this pairing if they were biologically related? Would Tao?
Would it be "unnatural" for a child to have a crush on a relative--or might it be kind of common and something we are socialized out of expressing (as Freud suggested)?
You are making the argument that it is clear that Tao has been raised as Fei's child or nephew. I am saying that is not how Tao sees it and therefore, it cannot be considered inappropriate from his POV.
As for biology, I'm not the one getting all squicked out over incest, but that is the technical definition of incest, regardless of gender.
I am making the case that *Fei* sees Tao as his nephew, and how Fei sees it should count.
Furthermore, do you really think Tao sees himself as Fei's "servant"? I don't think Tao thinks he is the hired help. Crush aside, how do you think Tao sees Tao's role in Fei's life (not what Tao wants it to be, but how Tao thinks it is)? Do you think when little Tao has a nightmare, he is trying to seduce the adult whose bed he runs to? If not, wouldn't the person Tao runs to most likely be the parental figure of a child?
I am not squicked out. I have repeatedly said I do not have anything against fictional incest or a Fei/Tao pairing. I am merely asserting that if it happens, it will be an uncle-nephew pairing. You are the one calling that "unnatural". I am just saying they are family, but in yaoi that doesn't mean they can't have sex.
Merriam-Websters defines incest as "Sexual intercourse between people who are very closely related." It doesn't specify that they be blood-related. Legally, since Fei was adopted by Tao's grandfather, Fei is Yan's brother and Tao's uncle. Those are just facts. But fictional incest is fine, so there is no reason why this would be a problem for Fei/Tao shippers.
Again, if fictional incest is okay, would it matter if say, we found out Fei's bio-dad was doing Yan's mom and Fei was a blood relative? What would change? Both Tao and Fei would still feel exactly the way they feel now.
And we're going in circles. Fei's POV has no bearing on how Tao feels. If Tao does not feel the relationship is too close for romance it is because that was how he was raised and therefore, the relationship is not too close for romance. Running to someone when you have a nightmare is hardly the definition of family.
So factually, Fei was adopted by Tao's grandfather. But he simply has not raised Tao in that knowledge or in the role as his nephew. At no point does Fei refer to Tao as his child or his nephew. At no point does Tao refer to Fei as his uncle or his father. He only ever refers to him as "Master Fei." They are not related. Their relationship is outside traditional familial bonds. There is no incest.
Yes, you are right. The point for me isn't the pairing of two persons related by family (and not related by blood), but the fact that nobody takes into consideration Fei Long's feelings about that and gives too much importance to the (possible) first crush of a teenager person. Who knows if Tao will feel in the same way becoming an adult?
I think right now, Fei and Tao are the only family either one of them has got. Regardless of the outcome of Tao's crush, I think the two of them have a bond that is deeper than romance or sex. Some families are formed by blood, and others by choice. I've seen more family behavior between the two of them on the page than I have seen with any other characters in this story. I think every way that matters, Fei sees Tao as family.
The central question here is what makes a family. Suppose Tao got over his crush and developed deeper feelings for a boy his own age. Do you think Tao would leave Fei and forget Fei existed? Or do you think Tao has a bond of some kind with Fei the pre-dates his crush and would survive the crush ending?
Yes, their bond is deeper. :)
You are defining what family means to *you* not what it might mean to Fei and definitely not what it means to Tao. If it was you in this situation, that's fine. But it's not you. It's them, and they are not defining family in the same way.
And just because you have bonded with someone doesn't make you family. Still caring about someone when stronger feelings have ended is not proof of family.
What is your evidence the Fei does not think of Tao as family?
I can't prove he does any more than you can prove the opposite. We can only go by what's on the page. You are seeing it through your filter of what represents family but for me, I see nothing more than a man caring for a child he has taken in. That doesn't equal family to me. I have yet to see Fei refer to Tao in any way that says clearly "This is my family."
OK. Now that Yan is dead, if Fei were to die without a will, who do you think should legally inherit the bulk of Fei's estate? And if Fei has a will, who do you think will inherit the bulk of Fei's assets?
Why do you think Fei chose to take in this particular child?
You can leave your estate to anyone. That's not proof. (Really, this is still all speculation. We not being privy to Fei's will and all.) And would any self-respecting mafia head leave a pawn that could be used against him to the whim of fate? Still doesn't prove there's a family bond here.
Let's try logic. In the novella, we are told that Fei is reluctant to have Yoh kill Yan because Fei thinks of Yan as Fei's brother. We later learn that Fei has always known Tao was Yan's son but that Fei wanted to keep that secret for Tao's sake. So, If Fei thinks of Yan as Fei's brother, and Fei knows Tao is Yan's son, it follows that Fei thinks of Tao as Fei's....?
QED
You're still arguing only Fei's side. You got nothing for Tao and it's Tao who is pursuing a relationship because Tao does not see Fei as a father or uncle or any other kind of family figure because Tao has never felt that Fei is his family. One might almost say it would be LOGICAL to assume that is because Tao was not raised as family, whatever Fei may think or know.
So we're agreed Fei thinks of Tao as his nephew? Good.
Now is it possible that Tao could have romantic feelings for someone who is also his family?
I'm butting in and I'm not into the pairing, even less into incest, but why not?
I mean, some people might not see it as that much of a turn off as others. I knew a girl that flirted lots and I think went out with her step-brother when we were in high school... I mean, at the end of the day siblings are still humans that can be attractive, only you're supposed to have another type of relationship with them according to society.
Society make us think that some things are wrong or bad without making us think twice about it. It's kind of like the vegan matter, people eat meat without thinking twice about it their whole lifetime, and just think vegans are extremely wierd for doing what they do (basically being empathic).
Well I guess it's subjective, but yeah, what I mean is that certainly not everyone is unable to have romantic feelings for a member of their family.
:) You can butt in anytime. I think it's particularly possible in yaoi.
":) You can butt in anytime. I think it's particularly possible in yaoi."
You know, this particular sentence taken out of context... XD
*squeal*
WHAT CHAPTER DOES HE DREAM OF AN OLDER TAO
Sensei YA's art often includes very expressive eyes (at least, I always interpret the glances and looks as meaningful). For the type of men who are not going to sit down and have a good long talk about their feelings (which, in my opinion, includes most men in this story if not the world), a lot depends on what is in the other's eyes. Asami seems particularly adept at reading Aki's face, and is most upset when Aki won't look him in the eye:
http://iweb9.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/46/d312bacf993d5d6803215ab35e13335a.jpeg
Asami searches Aki's eyes for truth even as Asami establishes sexual and romantic dominance:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/47/004.png
Asami may not like other people touching his things, but what seems more of an issue at this point is Aki turning away from Asami--by running away, by turning to another (in Asami's mind), or by not meeting Asami's eyes.
So, when Asami says, "Anyone who touches you, no matter who it is, I will erase them." Asami may not mean touch physically. Asami does not worry about people touching Aki to beat him up, and Asami didn't seem worried about what Fei did with Aki (though granted Fei is a special case and I doubt anyone else could get away with that). Maybe Asami is worried about anyone who touches Aki's heart and makes Aki turn his gaze elsewhere.
Just a thought. I'd still like to see Aki kick Sakazaki in the balls (my new favorite mental image).
i would like to give a comforting answer, but from my point of view I think that Asami intends as betrayal something done against him completely. For example: passing secret information or other matters about his personal life to others. It's because of this that I think that the innocent Aki will have big problems in the next chapters. What if Asami thinks Aki is working as a "russian mole" or something like that (because of the bj with Sakazaki)?
Is Asami really all that adept at reading Aki? He says he is. He says that everything shows on Aki's face. But he often misreads Aki. So when you say that Asami assumes that Aki is "turning away" from him to turn to another, again, that's Asami totally misreading Aki. Aki has never "turned away" because he was drawn to another. He turns away to guard the intensity and confusion of his feelings for Asami. So old Asami isn't as insightful as he thinks he is. A good part of Aki's mind and motivations are still out of Asami's reach.
If I could give this one a double thumbs up, I would. Excellent observation!
True. I think ironically that Asami was better at reading Aki before Asami's feelings were so involved. But I think it's the turning away that bothers Asami rather than the thought of Aki just having sex with another. Asami is insecure (but not necessarily about sex).
If Asami took the BJ to be evidence of Aki plotting, I think that would be a very big problem. But I think the problem would be the suspected plotting--the giving of loyalty rather than the giving of oral sex. But that's just me. :)
Yes, it would be a "suspected plotting" until Asami discover the truth...and then god save Sakazaki. :)
Um, I think the translation of Asami's words " is there anyone besides me..." causes a bit confusion. Is it same sentence in English copy? In French and Japanese copy, Asami doesn't clearly mention that his competitors is person. Following Akihito's response, French translation goes competitors is person, but the original never says that. Asami rivals himself in Akihito's whole world and that's why Akihito's confession has big meaning for the story and why Asami says "erase them" things. It's only my speculation though.
Would you mind giving us a better translation? Please, I would like to understand better what Asami said. :)
Very interesting. I too would appreciate aby alternate translation you might offer or know of. If Asami asks if there is anything rather than anyone who can make Aki feel that way, then maybe Asami is a little more in tune with Aki and was just hurt that Aki would try to leave. (In my reading, I think Asami is right when reading people about 90% of the time, and I think that's great for someone without telepathy--but I know others will argue any error makes him bad). If Asami would "erase things" as you said, it makes a huge difference in how I interpret that scene. Thank you.
Totally agree with the 'expressive eyes' comment. And may I add: sensei is the Queen of subtlety. She has numerous 'silent' panels which looks and expressions convey more about what a character may be thinking than they would if that character actually had a line to say in the panel. This is particularly true for Asami (from whom we never get POVs). Example:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c041/11/
I just love Asami's look and expression on the upper panel. It's the perfect combination of mild anger, disappointment at Aki's behavior and relief he's been finally found. It's like Asami's thinking: "Really kid? Did you really think you could run away from me that easily?"
I love that look. It would be kind of scary to face though.
So, we know that Aki likes zombie movies, Kuroda likes books, and that Asami and Fei both like to drink alone in a depressing manner (unless they are having sex)--what do you think the characters do to relax? They can have more than one hobby or fandom.
Well...., we also know that asami like to read newspaper during his relaxing time. I think asami hobbies will be anything that have to do with aki personally.
I forgot the newspaper. Thy don't seem to use the Internet for news--do you think Asami and Aki fight over the sports pages on Sunday mornings?
W...wait..... So what Asami gave to Kuroda...A BOOK????
I thought it was some AKB's DVD limited Ed first gen????
Honestly, asami doesn't have it in him to be that type but I can see aki doing something like that. However, it will be interesting to see aki have asami in the headlock trying to get the sport section from him .
Well, I recall Fei liking books. I think it was mentioned in the character guide. :)
But oh boy do I want to see all of those guys spend a movie night together. ^^
You are a mean person. *Tries to drink brain cells that store memory of that idea into submission* Couldn't you just make a penis joke?
It would be cool if everyone had a movie night. What movie would they watch? Deadpool?
Maybe each of them gets to suggest a movie? I'd be curious which Asami and Fei would pick. And Mikhail. ^^
I think they will watch: "The Stendhal Syndrome" directed by D. Argento. If Finder was a darker and even a horror story that movie would match the idea perfectly. :)
For some reason, I think Mikhail would enjoy classics such as Porkies and Animal House.
I mean Porky's
I have not watched that one. I will find it. I liked most of what you mention.
Do you think they would sing along with Frozen? Like if we paid them?
Maybe it could be better the musical "The Phantom of the Opera" with Akihito as Christine. :)
True Romance.
That's a good one. And sort of a busman's holiday.
That would be great. I would also enjoy seeing them sing along to Evil Dead, The Musical or maybe something out of left field like Hamilton.
Great!
Perhaps they could all star in The Rocky Horror Picture Show ...
That would be fun.
(Let there be hips!)
*Aki’s buns appear*
Asami heard cries when he claimed his loveprize (Akihito)
But he told us he’s a fan (of cheeky boys)
And Aki was there without underwear (Kinky)
Kirishima was the enforcer man (Throw him to me)
But then something went wrong (For whom?)
For the jilted Feilong (Nice hair!)
He got caught in an obsessive jam (Cherry jam?)
Then at a deadly pace, Fei came on (Where?)
Aki’s face (Thank you)
And this was how Fei fixed his plan:
Yaoi fiction, extra feature
Asami wrecks (sex sex sex sex)
and loves his creature (little monster)
See gangsters fighting (and F’ing and sucking)
Mikhail Abratov (Asshat)
Tao first appears in (Be nice)
Flower in the High Loft (Freaking Backstory)
Oh, oh, oh oh, oh oh oh (where’s the best place to shag?)
In the Finder’s slightly twisted love photo
Neither Takato nor Kou (Dumb shits)
know the Naked Truth now (Never will)
they were hostages against their wills (Dumb shits)
And I really got hot (What’s new)
When I saw Aki got (What he wanted)
On his knees for Asami’s thrills (Our thrills)
Now Fei’s a friend --sort of (F*ck buddy)
And it’s Escape and Love (Escape and F*ck)
And healing trauma took lots of skills (Yay rectal muscles)
But remember this (What?)
Pray in the Abyss (On your knees)
Is gonna show you some traitorous shills (Sudou sucks)
Like a (F*ck)
Yaoi fiction, extra feature
Asami wrecks (sex sex sex sex)
and loves his creature (Little monster)
See gangsters fighting (and F’ing and sucking)
Mikhail Abratov (Asshat)
Tao first appears in (Be nice)
Flower in the High Loft (Freaking Backstory)
Oh, oh, oh oh, oh oh oh (where’s the best place to shag?)
In the Finder’s slightly twisted love photo
I want to to know oh oh oh
What happens next in the Finder picture show
By Ayano
wo oh oh oh oh
We want to know ("F you speculators", F you too nonspeculators)
oh oh oh oh
What happens next in the Finder picture show
What a nice idea!
That is brilliant!
...I love you. xD
I thought one of Fei Long's hobbies included reading and collecting old books?
It occurs to me that this is the first time we see Karino lose it and go after Azusa in anger. Before now, it was always calculated...part of Karino's plan, coolly executed with detached amusement. When it looks like Karino cheated, Karino is angry in a hot, immediate way. I like this because it brings Karino down to Azusa's level and indicates Karino has some feelings under the surface.
Omg You're right! Also I sense a little jealousy when he tells Azusa not to flirt with that teacher.
Which is some good development because so far he's been nothing but almost robotic and 1 dimensional
I also feel like it's the first time he has been really physical with Azusa - like angry physical
Everyone thinks Azusa plan was a failure, but if Azusa could have gotten Karino expelled for cheating (or even just gave him a failing grade) he would have taken Karino down with him--which is Azusa's goal after all. It would have worked if the creepy teacher hadn't interfered and threatened to tell Azusa's mom Azusa was bullied. Maybe Karino would have hurt Azusa, but Azusa didn't care--Azusa just wants to get Karino at all costs. The creepy teacher exposed Azusa's weakness and made Azusa admit Azusa set Karino up.
It was a good plan. How was Azusa supposed to know the creepy teacher would threaten to get their parents involved?
I didn't consider that Karino would have risked to be expelled...
This is just for fun and speculation, so anyone can answer. We all know Aki can get into "street fights" (especially if he is defending someone) but Aki is also able to fight dirty:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/koisuru_finder_no_hyouteki/1/046.png
So where do you think Aki learned the "grab them by the balls" style of negotiation? As a delinquent? From his father's influence? From the dirty cop mentor? Or is this a panel missing from what Fei taught him?
Of course, it's not in the story. Very little about Aki's past is--and what is there leaves room to speculate--so what do you think?
I would like to think that Asami, recognising Akihito's ability to get into trouble at the drop of the hat, either paid for some self-defence lessons for him, or taught him himself.
That would be fun to see. I would hope Asami taught Aki personally, if that happened. I can imagine the strategy lesson--whose balls you can grab and when, whose you can't and why, and the reasons why Asami's rather large jewels are safe (except perhaps metaphorically, and then they are only vulnerable to Aki).
Come to think of it, I can imagine Asami being called away from Aki's training and having Kirishima step in. That could be pretty funny.
Any of the men that got in trouble had to"train" with Takaba for four hours. he call went out for real balls, people came with baseballs and basketballs. they did not know they meant those kinds of balls. needless to say, there where less and less mistakes made. Suoh thought up the plan.
Cute.
I don't think anyone had to "train" him, he's always been fairly tough and wild, that's what attracted Asami in the first place remember? From the very first chapter where his men go to capture him and he just jumps off a building and scales down it like he's Spider-Man or Aladdin or something.
True. I love Aki's Ninja side. But I think that kind of skill requires a bit of experience even if he is self-taught. It's actually hard to grab a man's balls if he is not thinking you want to have sex with him. They tend to instinctively cover when they see something moving towards them. So, do you think he developed that technique as a teen who was getting into trouble, or do you think he perfected it later on?
I think he probably developed it early since he's cute, I'm sure he got groped as a child on the subway often or something, isn't that a common yaoi trope? Lol
The ball-grabbing was Akihito establishing his dominance (as adult male dealing with an arrogant, punk-ass teenager). I think it's highly unlikely he would try this on another adult male.
Though I wouldn't be too disappointed to see him attempt this move on Sakazaki.
You think Sakazaki would squeal like a pig? ヾ(；ﾟ(OO)ﾟ)ﾉ
LOL. I would love to see Aki do that to Sakazaki.
He would like it way to much(Skazaki that is).
How can a substitute teacher who has finished his time play the game? Maybe he gets such poor marks in classroom management and not engaging the students that they send him to observe the class for a few more months? I mean, look at his students:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/caste_heaven/12/8558392b8d33324def1ef7d897fdbf98.jpeg
One girl is crying and everyone else is ignoring him. I assume class is over, but still--usually people say goodbye even if they don't like the student teacher. They look like he bores them to death.
I think someone speculated that he might just be leaving their class rather than the school altogether. If he is a substitute for another class he still has the opportunity. Or maybe he is planning to ambush Azusa and have his way with him before leaving.
Azusa was dealt a very bad hand, but he is still playing. I think his idea of a win now simply looks like defeating Karino rather than ruling the school. As I see it, Azusa doesn't want to bring down the caste game (though that's what I would want to do--I probably read too many dystopian novels where the young hero rises up and overthrows the system). Azusa just wants to make Karino regret making Azusa a target.
I also think a large part of Azusa's motivation is to stop Karino from simply moving on after graduation. Azusa was starting to change until Karino told Azusa this was just a way to pass the time while Karino was in school. After that, we see Azusa is bothered by the idea Karino moving on:
http://iweb9.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/caste_heaven/4/72ee178a8c96d98eee9c495bc96ce515.png
Azusa is willing to destroy himself too to bring down Karino--because then Karino would be stuck with Azusa:
http://iweb9.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/caste_heaven/4/4319b1a1c2a26978b5a2aabe103f83f5.png
We also see that Azusa is willing to sell pictures of himself to get information on Karino.
Of course, Azusa wants to get even too:
http://iweb9.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/caste_heaven/4/9b5c3a6e78559ed92480523acdebf5f8.png
But it seems as if what really pisses Azusa off is Karino mentioning this is an amusement to last till graduation.
If I could only find evidence that Karino is bluffing about it just being a game, I'd be happy. I guess we'll see what happens with creepy teacher.
We can feel Karino is in love with Azusa.The way he want them to have sex all the time ╮(￣▽￣)╭ Is simple to be hated than have nothing at all. We still don't kown who start the game of Castel and why !! I hope we will decover that !!!
I am almost your age, so just treat me like another student. Oh, and it's fine if you want to have sex anytime--just get the pass, and invite me to listen in.
I thought it was funny. And she more or less married us to the main couple.