This thought is somehow hard for me to express clearly, so bear with me a little. As a personal preference, even in fiction, I tend to distinguish between someone who acts badly but ultimately cares about another person (or at least the other's pleasure) and a character that treats others as objects. It's difficult for me to explain why I put some characters in the "sexy beast' or "redeemable bad boy" category but I think of others as the "selfish frat boys" or "entitled drunk at a tittie bar" type. Of course, every character can develop and change, and both the former and the later types may act objectively similar, but I still think there is a difference.
So how is Asami different from, say, Yuri? Asami dominates, rapes, generally does as he pleases, and sometimes uses violence to get what he wants, but I can see it as a type of fictional seduction (I know some others don't). For me, the key is in whether the aggressive one sees the uke as a person and tries to bring the uke pleasure (even if the pleasure is mixed with humiliation). For example, remember the time Asami chokes Aki?
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c030.1/27/
Yuri got pleasure through the violence because Yuri only saw Aki as a thing that Yuri projected his own self-loathing on. Asami will also choke Aki, but he will do it in a way that brings pleasure. At one level, they both choked Aki. But at another level, one treated Aki like a thing to take frustrations out on, and the other treated Aki like a person who could be seduced and given pleasure even in pain.
It's sort of like how, ideally, in BDSM a dom pushes the sub because that's what the dom believes the sub wants, but the dom actually does it for the sub. A good dom makes sure the sub gets pleasure, even when it's through pain or humiliation. Even in non-BDSM scenes, I think part of that still applies. The aggressive person should at the very least try to make sure the other person feels pleasure of some sort, and not just act in power over the other without regard to the other's humanity.
Of course, there are cases where the distinction gets muddled. Consider Fei, who initially took out his feelings about Asami on Aki but who eventually saw Aki as a person. Consider Sakazaki, who sees Aki as a person, but a person who can be used, much like a thing. To me, Fei always seemed to have personal feelings involved and I was happy with Fei's character development. Sakazaki could also grow, and he may have a human side, but as long as he treats people in general like things and disregards the pleasure of his unwilling partners, I kind of want someone to serve him a dose of karma. So, I put Fei on the "complicated human with twisted but real feelings" side oft he line, but right now, I see Sakazaki as a spoiled entitled user who does not give others pleasure.
Does that make any sense?
I think you make this difference because you understand what this kind of manga works, it serves to fulfill sexual fantasies and it's fine like it is. A different kind of fiction works in a different way. Even if I disagree with the use of "the fantasy rape" I understand that something like that is appealing to a certain kind of audience and I respect that. It's the same with the fact that many characters in this fiction are abusive persons, even if they result fascinating and interesting. It's the way this story works. If I got in real life someone like Asami I would run away. :)
Viewfinder is a fun break from reality. Picking it apart takes away the entertainment value imo . None of it is like RL anyways ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Sorry about that. :) Sometimes I enjoy picking at things. I know it's fiction.
Lady L and Ana are both right and what you are saying makes sense. but he is just part of the landscape. Put it behind you. If viewfinder were RL: Takaba would have bitten his dish ( beard man). Most of the people Takaba knows would be dead: killed by Asami. hahahaha." Mine"
Well, in real life, I'd like to think I would record the evidence and charge Asami with rape, but it would be hard without some kind of support since chances are the police and prosecutor are on Asami's side. I might simply run and blog anonymously about his misdeeds. I would try to get at him from the shadows somehow, even if I wasn't very effective.
I would also like to believe that I would have grabbed Sakazaki's balls and squeezed till he told me what I want to know, but I have never done anything like that. The most I have ever done is defend myself if someone else grabbed me, and that only worked because I was lucky. "Run away" is a legitimate plan. I would hope I could glare and walk away. But I would run if I didn't feel safe.
I would probably have told someone else about the Mitarai-Sakazaki connection--maybe Ai since I would have hypothetically tried to put Asami in jail for the rape. I would see if Ai knew people who work or worked for Sakazaki, or with Aya/Mayu. Then I would try to get her to have them over and pump them for information after a few bottles of wine. I guess I would be much more of a girly gossipy investigator. But in my fantasy, I would kick ass. The things I say in my head are devastating.
Maybe I want my fantasy characters to do the kind of things I only do in my head--that's why I think it would be great character development for Aki to kick Sakazaki in the balls the next time Sakazaki tries to pull that sh*t.
I'm kind of with Ana about the picking apart but for a different reason. Much as I love Finder, it doesn't always bear this kind of analysis, which will sometimes highlight flaws. For example, Asami saying that whoever had strangled Aki only got pleasure out of violence. But that isn't really what happened with Yuri. Yuri attacked out of self-loathing. There was no pleasure involved there. So that comparison didn't work for me in the story.
And I can't believe this but I'm going to defend Sakazaki a little bit. In their initial encounter, Sakazaki was pretty confident he could make Aki feel good if Aki agreed to have sex with him. So on some level, he was considering Aki's pleasure. In their last encounter, Aki certainly didn't go to Sakazaki looking for pleasure but rather to use Sakazaki for his own ends, so it's really kind of hard to blame Sakazaki for not making sure Aki had a good time there.
I was forgetting to say, in my last comment, that some characters are built to be fascinating even in their cruelty (Asami, Feilong) and others, instead, are built to be only distasteful (as Yuri and Yan Tzui ). Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that Asami intended "pleasure out of violence" in a generic way, even if he knew nothing about what really happened to the poor guy. Maybe he thinks (it sounds weird) that everyone attacks someone else in that way is for pleasure.
Aki knew, though, but responded as though Asami's assumption was correct, which felt more like what the mangaka wanted for the scene than what would have organically grown out of Aki's trauma.
Yes, I understand and I'm agree with you.
That is how I read it too. :)
To be fair, I don't know that Aki knew YTuri's reasons. I'm not sure Aki was processing that much about Yuri at the time. Aki doesn't speak Russian, and Aki didn't hear the things Mikhail said to Asami and Fei or see the scars. Aki knows Yuri attacked him, but not why. Besides, I think at the time Asami was talking, Aki was thinking more about whether he trusted Asami and wanted Asmi to take control of it--not whether there were nuances to Yuri's actions Asami didn't know. Aki didn't even tell Asami it was Yuri.
Seriously, girlfriend? This is just a manga... How many hours a day do you currently spend on this site? Three? Four? Do yourself a favour: Find yourself a nice boyfriend and a hobby. Live a little, rather than sitting in front of a computer screen all day long, contemplating the lives of characters that don't exist.
While Anoni Grll doesnt need me to come to her defense, this bothers me a lot. If you don't wanna see someone talking about it, scroll past, no one is forcing you to read. You have no right whatsoever to tell her what to do. If she wants to spend her time dissecting viewfinder, what is it to you? Does it hurt you in anyway? If for some reason she spends her entire life on this site, it's none of your business. You don't feed or clothe her, neither are you responsible for her. So stop with the criticism.
Thanks. I do spend a lot of time here. It's a distraction and I have reasons--but even if that were not the case, it's not as if it hurts anyone that I have this hobby instead of some other hobby. I know people who gossip about real people all day--and that can get nasty.
Sorry, but how would you know how much time she is here unless you are here too? I come here a lot too.
I am looking for a picture of Asami and Aki in their tighy-whities (as dress up dolls--would have come out with the extra). I could swear I had seen it somewhere before, but now I can't find it. Does anyone know where to look?
Thanks!
(＾▽＾)／
I think maybe Keiichi and Shingo have different expectations for what a relationship should look like long term. Putting aside Shingo's abandonment issues for a moment, I think Keiichi doesn't realize he owes Shingo an explanation about Angelo, and that it never occurs to Keiichi to talk things over with Shingo before deciding to leave the country. It seems like a Keiichi expects a rather old fashioned relationship with a power imbalance where one person makes all the decisions and takes for granted that the other will trust and love so much that there is no need to talk about it and make decisions together.
Now, I think Shingo should correct this impression and not jump straight to breaking up, but at the same time, you can't expect a modern person who wants an equal relationship to accept "I love you" as a reason to be treated like a second class citizen. For Shingo, the problem is abandonment issues--and Shingo has to learn how to cope better with those. But for Keiichi, the issue is making decisions on his own and expecting Shingo to passively go along with whatever Keiichi does no questions asked.
If Keiichi was planning on proposing this entire time, why not talk with Shingo like an equal partner? What kind of marriage was Keiichi thinking about when he made the decision to leave the country and didn't even talk to Shingo about it before hand? I believe Keiichi really did want Shingo to wait at home like a good little kitty, but I do think Keiichi, of all people, should know the difference between cats and dogs. You want unquestioning devotion and unchallenged authority over the other, get a puppy.
But I am still willing to blame Angelo if we are given a good reason.
This is a very good explanation, somehow prediction. I like how keen you are in the details swirling with the two and, in all honesty, I was nodding in agreement with all that you said since I think the same way. I am hoping that both of them will be able to settle their differences with a heart-to-heart talk. Nice one! d(^_^)b
Thanks. :) I also think the relationship is worth saving. I get all teary-eyed over my fiction. I wouldn't mind it if someone put Angelo in his place either. Nothing too bad, just enough to teach him manners.
So, if Aki is curious little Alice, and Asami is the White Rabbit who lured us to Wonderland, who do you think the other characters from Finder resemble from Wonderland?
Fei could be a better-tempered Queen of Hearts. That might make Mikhail the Kings of hearts--I am not sure I like the pairing though.
Who would Kirishima be?
Sakazaki is the hesire Cat, Sodou is the Queen, Kirishima is the Doormouse and Souh is the Caterpillar
I just started laughing like crazy while remembering the Queen's solution for everything (cut off the head). For me Mikhail is the Mad Hatter and Yuri is the March Hare. Would Kirishima be Caterpillar? *0*
oops - typo - I meant Cheshire Cat
I know what you meant. I am fluent in Typos.
The contempt works. :)
Beware the Jabbawock. Yuri lives still. hahahah. Who is that coming to do battle? Alice, The white rabbit, The White Queen(kuroda) , The White King (kirishima) and Suoh as the Ch. Cat. (He brought his kittens with him).
Yes, for me Yuri is still alive. *0*
Yuri is too damn evil to die.
Oh Yes! Just for fun and speculation: Maybe Yuri left Mik's group and is leading his own organization know. Aaron is one of his underlings, and a former fighter of the IRA (he's Irish). *0*
I wondered about that too--like there may be some split in the Russian ranks.
As an aside, Aaron would be an unusual name for an Irishman, but not impossible. Remember trad Irish names have very weird spellings. The country "Erinn" would be spelt with an E and an I to make an A (eh) sound, and they throw in two Ns but only one R. I believe that when the Irish finally came up with an acceptable use of the standard alphabet for their language, they said, "Fine, but we are going to spell things in such a way that Europeans will never be able to make sense of it." (And then the Welsh said, "Us too, but with more Ds, Ws and Ys and no vowels without a special writ of permission.)*" Erin is a girl's name meaning the same thing as Eirinn, but I haven't seen it used for boys and it's unrelated to Aaron from the Bible/Torah. The Scottish Isle of Arran is probably derivative of some Viking name. It's a weird thing too.
*They also do this so that when people want to sound mystical and pronounce "Samhain" as "Sam Hain" instead of "Sow when" the Celtic language speakers can laugh.
**PS forgive me, I once did a semester abroad at UCD (Ireland). Sadly, I have no skill for languages.
Thanks for giving me these lessons about Irish pronunciation. I find it difficult to understand if someone speaks at me using British or Scottish pronunciation. I find less difficult to understand American English. I know Ireland's language family have Celtic and Goidelic. :)
Sorry about that. It's against my nature to withhold information (even when people beg me). :)
I don't find most Irish accents hard to understand when they speak English (and if I've drunk enoughI'll slip into a sort of Dublin accent, not to be rude but because my mouth just does it after hearing it). I think many people know "standard" American and English accents from TV and movies. The one that sometimes throws me is a thick Aussie accent (even more than the Kiwis). I don't know why this is--they are usually lovely people once I understand them. I suppose it is just what I am used to hearing (or not).
So I want to say Aaron could be Russian or some Slavic type or maybe even from the middle East (though he doesn't look it). Aaron could be anything.
I think that using the Cyrillic alphabet the spelling of "Aaron" would be more or less the same, but I don't know anything about Russian pronunciation.
Before I was talking about English different pronunciations because English isn't my mother tongue and I was just curious. :)
Since I'm oversharing (again) I'm going to add one of my weird little theories that isn't directly related to Finder. I've always thought there were parallels between England and Japan, both being island nations that had great imperial power. The analogy isn't perfect, of course, but that makes Europe kind of China West (if you follow me), and Ireland would be kind of a Korean West. Sure, I'd rather live in Northern Ireland than "Best" Korea, but I did say it wasn't a perfect parallel.
So it would be a little weird for me if Aaron comes from Korea West--you know?
Yes, you are right. Just in this moment I remembered all the matter about the"Iron curtain" and the "Wall of Berlin" that is a recent part of European history. Probably Aaron comes from an Eastern European country.
I like the idea of a power struggle between Mikhail and Aaron.
Erin is also the old name for Ireland. Aaron is originally Hebrew (and there is an Egyptian version too) but has spread in popularity to other parts of the world. Arran (BTW) is not Viking in origin - it is the Scottish spelling of Aaron from the Hebrew (says the Danish girl - with some confidence as Aaron is not commonly found in Scandinavia - the closest would be Aage - I have a relative with that name) *winks*
The Celtic and the Hebrew are really not related, though they sound alike. I was told Arran, as in the island north of Scotland (sometimes spelled Arrain), is from a Norse word meaning high place, and it is not related to the Hebrew/Egyptian word. It's also not a name for a person. It's just a place. :)
Aran with one r means kidney-shaped in Irish. Eirinn does mean Ireland in Irish (Eirinn go bragh!). I thought at first Lady L was making a pun on Eirinn/aaron but now I think it may have been a coincidence.
But since it's almost St. Patrick's Day, it's timely.
Do you think Aki would drink green beer?
Takaba would drink, period.He is a beer lover. love warm Sake on cold nights
Yes, it has been a coincidence. I only know that the name "Aaron" is ranked at the 24th place in popularity in Ireland. :)
I like that idea too. :)
Is it? I am surprised. I guess I only met Eoghans and Aidans as a fluke (or it was long a ago). It turns out my drinking in pubs is not a valid research tequnique. :)
or technique (no wonder I can't deal with Irish spellings--English spelling is too hard for me and it's my only language).
And leprechauns look a lot like that forest fairy Aki is into, so there is that.
I found that information using a web's site (I don't remember it's name).
This is only a little anecdote about the differences in English pronunciation: Less than a month ago I was at the Frankfurt's airport and I was looking for the gate Z (I don't remember the number anymore), and ask someone, and that person answers: "Are you looking for the C gate, Madam?" "Not C, but Z (zi:, with the American pronunciation)". And he finally understands : Do you mean Z (zed, with the British pronunciation)?" "Yes, that. Thank you". :)
Asami in full kilt!!!!!!!! Takaba would dance an Irish gig. they celebrate st, Patty's Day in Tokyo with a parade(men in kilts, playing the pipes) and green beer. Last year was the 23rd year.
LOL. That's hilarious. I think the Germans say "Zett" but maybe I am just associating Germans putting t and z together a lot. I had 2 semesters of German language (i.e. I know a little more German than Irish, but I still stink at it). My most vivid memory is one instructor trying to get me to roll an r on the back of my tongue. I can roll an r on the front of my tongue, but this is more like gargling. Anyway, she got frustrated and grabbed my throat right under my jaw and pressed up with her fingers saying, "Vibrate here!" You know what? Being almost choked did make me make sounds in the back of my throat.
So I am not good at languages. Luckily "beer" and "bier" work pretty much anywhere I go. And if the Japanese films I watched as a child are anything to go my, all women need to do in Japan is say "yes" and pour tea, so I've got that covered (if I ever get to go there).
Yes, for me that Z sounded more like a Zett that a Zed. I like Lufthansa airlines for their services. The flight attendants are so nice. Another anecdote: saying "frizzing water" instead of sparkling water. Sometimes I feel so bad about my stupid mistakes. :)
In Tokyo's fair city
Where idols are pretty
That's where I first met sweet Akihito
He'd been through the grinder
but in his viewfinder
He had Asami's muscles; sex drive, sex drive-oh
sex drive, sex drive o-oh
sex drive, sex drive o-oh
Asami's muscles; sex drive, sex drive oh.
(づ￣ ³￣)づ
I have a question about this bite: http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/7/030.png
Afterwards, Keiichi thinks, "Had I known earlier, I might as well just bite him to death and bring him over but I love him too much. I definitely won't be able to do it?"
When I first read it, I thought it was just post break up drama. You know, "I'd kill him if I didn't love him." Then I thought, maybe I missed something in the translation. It was kill him *and* bring him over: two different things. Over where? To some mystical big cat undeath? Would a big cat bite do something special to a little cat? And since they already broke up, what is it Keiichi definitely cannot do because he loves Shingo too much?
The picture looks like a classic act of submission. The little cat bares his throat to the big cat, and the big cat bites hard enough to show power. Then the big cat backs off and leaves the little cat. But these are magical cats who have human forms. Who knows what else is going on? This makes me wonder about all the things we don't know about this mythology.
Since we, like Shingo, are in the dark, my brain starts to churn. I wonder if Angelo did something that first night that gives him some kind of power over Keiichi? That would explain why Keichii lets Angelo dominate him and why Keiichi wants to keep Shingo and his brother away from Angelo. It may even have taken Keiichii's scent.
Of course, that's wild speculation. In my worst moments, I wonder if Angelo is a vampire and if he turned Keiichi into a vampire cat (or if being a vampire made him lose his cat). I read too many vampire books, but to me, being bitten to death and then "brought over" often means vampire. And if Angelo is now Keiichi's sire, usually Keichii would have to obey the master vampire. Looking again at the bite picture, if I didn't know the story, I might think vampire. But then again they go out in daylight.
Okay, that last paragraph was pretty far out there. But what you all know about the bite? Does it mean something? Could it? Any other ideas?
So he said had I known earlier ! What does he know that he should've know earlier ? Maybe am
Just over thinking but i think something has happened in shingo's past and kagami has asked his bro to
Look at shingo's past before he actually gives him the ring. I am
Just over thinking I know
Maybe what he didn't know was that his scent disappeared. I still think there is something hinky there we don't know. I don't buy the accusation that Shingo's feelings changed.
What I think about the bite is that was Keiichi taking out his frustration and hurt on Shingo. He didn't want to break up but let it happen anyway. He was shocked by the fact that Shingo could no longer smell him and therefore thought that if Shingo really doesn't trust him then he can no longer do anything about it.
On what he was thinking afterwards I'm thinking he was saying had he known things would end up in a break up he would have killed him so that he would always belong to him. But in the end he loves him to much to actually go through with it. That's what I got from it at least
i understand the same thing as you
Well, that was kind of my first reading, but that version doesn't give me a way to blame it all on Angelo. I'm looking for a way for it to be Angelo's fault. :)
Haha I also want it to be Angelo's fault. He seems shady and I don't understand what his aim is with all this.
Okay, they both have issues, but one thing that really bothers me about the whole thing is that way Keiichii always allows whats-his-face to use possessive body language and never pushes the other away or mentions his relationship status. From the beginning, WHF grabs Keichii in exactly the same way Keichii grabs Shingo:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/2/65fff7c8ecbed3f73d104c0d1322a6bd.jpeg
Then there is flirty touching and Keiichi doesn't step back and put his arm around Shingo. 5 seconds ago, Keiichi is all about the PDA, but WHF shows up and gets handsy, and now Keiichi isn't touching Shingo. Keiichi lets WHF get closer and Keiichi drops his hand from Shingo. Then Keiichi turns to the new guy and turns his back on Shingo:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/3/1a7f1265e9394f46529ec41d98f518a5.png
Keichii doesn't say "This is my SO" or say anything special to Shingo to show they are a couple. Suddenly it's "Good work crewman!" and talk in a language Shingo can't understand. But what Shingo does understand is before this guy, Keiichi was all over Shingo. Now Keichii acts like Shingo is nothing and puts his arm around the new guy.
Later on their date, Keichii lets WHF put his arm around Keiichi and says nothing about being in a relationship. Keiichi may not be saying yes, but he isn't saying no either--and he isn't talking about how much he loves Shingo. For guy who is so keen to talk love in Shingo's world, Keiichi is closed-mouth around a guy coming on to him from his own social group.
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/3/fa0b9a30f9af51461ec1de9c785bfcab.png
"What are you doing?" This is a good time to say, "Texting my sweetie." But Keichii does not mention being in a relationship. And he lets the guy say things like this:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/r/newpiclink/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/3/6eb17ba9661b525b6c614ebce6f3ebdb.png
How is that okay?
And Keiichi allows the kiss without a word of protest. Afterwards, he has his arms crossed, but he still lets the other stand over him:
http://iweb6.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/5/005.png
Why isn't Keiichi clearly saying no?
Just because Shingo is insecure doesn't mean Keiichi isn't being an asshat.
Holy shit! Preach it honey! You're hitting so MANY nails with this post. I love it!
go, honey, go!!! I'm on your side!!!
Are there people who don't think a kiss is cheating? I was just wondering because some people think Shingo should be trusting Keichii--but Keichii was already kissing someone else. It may not be as bad as having sex, but it is cheating. How do you trust someone who is cheating and then being evasive about it?
I want them back together, but it is wrong to kiss someone else when you are supposed to be in love. Keichii was making huge promises about how he will never let Shingo down. The kiss broke that promise. There has to be some reckoning for that.
Totally Agree T-T
Honey kissing is cheating depending on the circunstantes and it also goes with sex. It wasn't something he iniciated, it wasn't something he wanted either, he didn't even respond to the kiss. Let's see if a kiss was cheating no matter what then keichii has been cheating on Shingo for a long time now (given his job he has probably kiss many people for scenes and to explain my first statement let's think about this: If a person in a relationships was raped, would it coin as cheating? I mean at the end of the day that person had sex with somebody else who wasn't his/her partner
(I'm the anon form above) and the reason he is being "evasive" about it is because it doesn't mean anything to him, it's not a problem. Keichii's feelings towards Shingo haven't changed and neither the lack of feelings he has for the other guy, it doesn't change anything and bringing it up would cause unnecessary troubles (that came anyway but still) because let's be honest here: how would Shingo react to the news that his boyfriend was kissed by someone who he works with off screen? It would have been a mess and let's not forget that the director is someone who can help Keichii professionally, he doesn't want any trouble with him either. He doesn't kiss him back but he doesn't entirely reject him and he treats him coldly. He doesn't want him in his life more than he already is so why would he bring him up? It's not to justify him or say that the way he did things was the best, it's just to give a different perspective to the matter
Agree kissing is cheating he let another person physically touch him in a sexual manner.
Even if it's not consensual? Because in this case I don't think it was even if he didn't reacted the way you wanted...
And did not come back (home to Shingo) till the next day.
Are you saying Keiichi did anything to prevent the kiss? Dude hot people get hit on all the time if its not called cheating when flirts offer then we'd havw hot babies all over the place
Even when the camera guy touches shingo's butt while he was on the ladder working Keiichi was MAD. It didnt mean anything to Shingo and he didnt see it coming but someone is PISSED OFF. Keiichi on the othr hand knew he was getting kissed and didnt avoid at all.
Just because another person initiated it doesn't mean it is nonconsensual. Nonconsensual would mean that Keichii indicated to the other person that it was unwanted and either said or did something to make it clear the other should not do such things. Not responding is arguable (it's hard to tell really) but there was no clear rejection, and there should have been. Keichii let this man hang on him in a familiar way in front of Shingo and never explained who this man was. This is not something that happened on set in a script--it happened when Keichii willingly went out with another man. It may not have meant anything to Keichii, but it was clearly bothering Shingo, so if Keichii really loves Shingo, Keichii would talk to Shingo about it and do something to make it clear to the other person that Keichii is exclusively with Shingo.
I'm not saying he did anything to prevent it, either way it doesn't mean he wanted to do it. Keichi has always and still is showing a cold façade in front of that guy which is based on keeping distance and showing no emotion and that guy is doing everything he can to break it.
I'm sorry, I clearly missed the part where Keichii smiled after the kiss and jumped into the guy's arms...
Anyway, it can be non consensual without saying any word or just giving a disapproval stare (such is the case in my opinion) and it goes the same way with consent: you don't have to say it or show it in an exaggerated way you just have to make the other person understand that you accept; I'm not saying it was non consensual because he didn't initiate it.
OOOOH WAIT WAIT WAIT I just opened up the page again, he did turn his face away!! and in the panel where the other one grabs his face it seems kind of forceful is that enough? ( http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kuroneko_kareshi_no_afurekata/mf/v01/c005/5/)
Whatever, as I said before, I'm not justifying his actions or saying is the best way to deal with problems, I'm just giving a different perspective about why he did the things he did.
Thats not called grabbing a face thats lifting his chin up for a kiss. Theres noway a guy cant break out of that even with minimum effort. I dont know how come you think its ok for your boyfriend to kiss another person. However I would really want to be as open hearted as you are then I wont feel disgusted about cheating. As you said Keichi is cheating only physically not emotionally but I would still disapprove of physical unfaithfulness as well even if its less severe(?). Anyways its the difference in tolerance when talking about unfaithfulness so there is no point in arguing anymore I guess. Actually even holding hands, hugging or going on a date with another person is considered cheating for me so maybe we are really on a different wavelength and noone is wrong its just that our values are different.
okay dont you think he should respect his partner by not getting involved in any sexual or intimate activity with another person when he can? He is being passive when he shouldnt be for no apparent reason. Even if there is a reason he didnt explai himself and that aint cool.
It's not to drag on the discussion because I agree with you that this matter is very subjective but there is a thing about this page that is just a detail actually that I didn't explain because I seriously just realised it and was thinking about another thing that is how the panels are used. First of all, the repetition of the same angle is usually used to show that something happens quickly, to make a pause you usually change the angle to a wider angle or something (depending on which was the one being used and that is not the only way to set the pace of a comic scene) as it was used on the last one, therefore, the approaching, being rejected part and the kiss were actually quick, it's likely Keichii wasn't expecting a comeback but anyway, those are technicalities (that I suggest you have in mind along with other ones when you read comics or mangas because it really enhances the reading in my opinion and i suer I'm not bullshitting you, I had to study it for a class in my university) but there is also the part of what the author means: there is a reason for that panel of rejection to exist that of course you can read it as you want.
Anyways, I never said that holding hands, hugging or going on a date weren't cheating (well, the last one is cheating, I mean the word date has a romantic connotation by itself) but I do think it depends on the situation and the value the other person gives it. But yeah, as I said, it really is a subjective topic.
do you realize their faces are in the kissing range and Angelo's hands was on Keichi's face vefore the kiss? The act of place your hand in the position tilting chin up is already a warning for a kiss! Its like so common in comics dramas movies and everyday life ~ so Keichi would have know Angelo's going to kiss him by then and I dont think he cant move his face away as fast as Angelo can move in for a kiss. Actually keichi's face was actually lowered down during the kissing panel suggesting that there is time for movement "away" rather than "into" the kiss. This is not my post anyway I think we are spamming lets stop Im so mad a keichi not you anyway lol but everything is just fictional so we cant just say whats there and whats not if its not drawn out so I wiuld say what im interpreting is not any more correct than what yours is because the mangaka could have added another panel and the whole connotation could be completely different so yeah! ahahha im heated for a debate after reading a chapter and might be too excessive but when i cooled down i feel like i was too into it :p
Well, what's enough for me is stepping back when the guy puts his hands on you and saying, "I am with somebody." in a way that clearly shuts him down. But I can see not everyone thinks that should happen.
They're probably pro-polygamy or else they wouldn't be supporting cheating :( Actually polygamy is supposed to be consensual or at least reluctantly consensual but Shingo has no say in this so cheating is not actually polygamy >< Its worse!! I think what you said zkeichi should do is enough too it was a pretty simple and diplomatic way. Keiichi isnt a stupid guy and soccially capable too. So why???
Polyamorous is okay if everyone is honest and agrees. I also wouldn't worry about it if Shingo were not picking up on the fact that something is wrong. Shingo is not okay with it, and Keiichi's response is to be evasive and make decisions without talking to Shingo.
yes in the end it is not really about the kiss, the real problem is honesty and communication. Thats all the couple need at the moment.
This time, I don't blame Shingo. The problem started when Keichii withheld information about the producer and whatever the heck Keichii is doing with that guy. I want Shingo to take the ring, but Keichii shouldn't expect that it's okay not to tell Shingo what is going on. Trust works both ways and a ring is no substitute for telling the truth in the first place.
I am so happy that Shirotani is finally able to let himself enjoy sex a little. When some people comment about how twisted this last chapter has become, or how it focuses too much on sex, I feel like they are echoing the sentiments of the teen who called Shirotani disgusting. Being disgusted by Kurose implies being disgusted with Shirotani for wanting Kurose. It is kink-shaming Shirotani--and hasn't the poor guy had enough of that?
It is beautiful that Shirotani is getting the sex he wants the way he wants it. What Shirotani wants may involve a somewhat S partner, and it may involve Shirotani being pushed to his limits--but it is what Shirotani wants. Shirotani has waited so long, and the pressure has been building. Kurose is giving Shirotani this. This is an act of intimacy and connection in a fucked up world. This is what their love looks like, and love is love.
oh boy, preach it for all those who don' （￣へ￣）t believe
Is it just me, or does the couple in the 10.5 raws remind anyone else of Pinky and the Brain? or maybe more like Lenny and George from Of Mice and Men?
Oh please send a link for that raw if you don't mind
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4375343752
Thank you so much!? I wish I could understand what's happening here