youraedthiswrogn's Topics (712)

Minase is in hospital because it was a flashback of when he got the accident! That’s what I see and know for now! Maybe Tetsuo and Takahashi are doing behind his back once so that’s why he felling disgusting and got accident so he can forget that memory!!!(▰˘◡˘▰)

Ok so this is what is going on....

The Leader of the town (Glasses guy) was a researcher who betrayed his mentor by shooting him in the leg all because he didn't want his daughter to be left all alone. He stole his research and vaccines. He later on came to a town where the seme (doctor) was at with his previous lover (black hair woman) who is now dead. He decided to stay there and eventually became leader. He got the doctor to work with him in testing out the vaccine. The leader caught a zombie who was actually Dajeong and tried the vaccine on him. This is when the scene from chapter 1 happens and the doctor is supposed to kill dajeong since the vaccine "failed" but instead doesn't kill him. The leader (glasses guy) thinks the zombie is dead...I guess he didn't recognize dajeong as the zombie and that is why he checks to see if he has that wound.

Thanks :^)

I think she realized that Skylar has someone who loved him (i dunno, just thinking ok?) And changed her mind, over time she got jealous because her husband dont love her or something and she tries to destroy the feeling yeonduk had, also her son,
Or,
She thinks shes doing whats best for her son, so her son diesnt have to go through the pain of love?????

Because she's crazy and rich. Somewhere in her mind, she knows that what's she's doing is wrong. So what could she do? She can't have other adults taking care of Skylar too much. That looks weird. So she made Yeonduk his pseudo guardian. Because, when you look back, Skylar acted better for Yeonduk than his mom. She didn't kill Skylar because she knew that Yeonduk would miss him. SOMEONE would miss him.

As the other stuff. What she was trying to do was enforce Skylar parentally through Yeonduk because she couldn't stand to do it herself a lot and Skylar acted better ONLY for Yeonduk. But other times it was really just a mix of her not caring and Yeonduk really liking Skylar. Sometimes it was just easy. For example, she was going to throw away Skylar's guitar. Yeonduk saw that and took it just so it wouldn't go in the trash. Skylar asked what happened to it and she says "Yeonduk wanted it so I said he could have it". It's not untrue. She's not trying to trick Skylar. That she wanted it trashed is just irrelevant news to her. When they were kids, she used Yeonduk for information but she didn't say that. Skylar just narrowed down how his mom would learn of certain things and came to the conclusion that "Yeonduk must be telling her my secrets in exchange for the nice things that my mom does" instead of "My mom tricked him into it like she tricks me into stuff". Eventually, Skylar also learned that he could use Yeonduk the same way his mother did. So I'd say, she just wanted to make it someone else's problem but she also just doesn't like Skylar for the most part.

It'd be nice if she ended up not MEANING to be a bitch, i'm still confused about when Yeonduk tells Skylar to "just talk to her" about fencing and she just... Let's him quit. Despite all the trouble she put Yeonduk through about it. I feel like there is the possibility that she really does think that Skylar wants these things, or like in the case of the guitar she just doesn't realize they're important to him. I mean, if this is true, then from her perspective she's raised him thinking what she's been doing is fine and that Skylar isn't acting out because of HER, but just because he's a bad son. She MIGHT be thinking he's just spoiled. Everything she does ends up pissing him off. Hence her bring a 3rd party into the mix, Yeonduk. If it looks like Skylar is going to be "a brat" (i.e. she doesn't realize she hurt him), she can deflect the blame and his "anger" (really his hate) onto Yeonduk. She then pays Yeonduk for his scapegoat services. Or... She could just be a bitch, we'll see. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I think that it's because there was finally some push back from someone she holds to a higher standard. It's been made pretty clear that she thinks things concerning Skylar are fine if Yeonduk is there and Yeonduk said that Skylar hates fencing. I think it's like earlier, when Skylar and Yeonduk went to that party together over night. It wasn't okay if he went alone but if he went with Yeonduk then SKylar basically had free reign. Yeonduk is the same age as Skylar. Yeonduk could be out drinking under age or having sex or stealing etc but she never even considers it a possibility. That isn't because she knows Yeonduk so well. It's because she thinks lowly of Skylar.

Isn't it because she's paying him that she "trusts" him? Also, Yeonduk wasn't there when Skylar asked to quit fencing, it looks like he just had to talk to her and make it clear he didn't like it. Yeonduk told Skylar to "talk to her", maybe because he thinks she DOES care about him? I agree that she has a low opinion of Skylar, though like i said, i feel like it COULD be a misunderstanding between all three of them. Maybe. Maybe his mom isn't INTENTIONALLY being a bitch, maybe the things she did to make Skylar hate her weren't on purpose and it's a misunderstanding between the two of them with her thinking he's just a bad/spoiled son who lashes out at anything she does (insert the Yeonduk shield to absorb the hate directed at her) and him thinking she's trying to ruin his life when she's just bitchy/businesslike and SUPER dense? Maybe. I think it'd be more interesting if the plot allowed her some character development instead of leaving her the villain. We'll see. ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

Yeonduk told Skylar to talk to her about fencing after Yeonduk already went to her and yelled at her for making him fence even though he hates it. And remember, she doesn't pay Yeonduk officially or anything. Yes, she helps out his family but I don't think he knows that Skylars mom helped with his dad's job. He does get an allowance from her but that's actually not that uncommon in Korea to do between close families. She giving him pocket money, not a salary.

All I'm saying though, is that she is crazy regardless. She tried to kill Skylar twice. That's not just being dense and b*tchy.

I know she tried to kill him once, but i don't remember a 2nd time. The idea in what i'm proposing is that after the 1st time she came to care about Skylar in her own way. I can't agree on the payment just being "pocket money", i see what you're saying, but it's pretty heavily implied in the manga that its for his "services". To the point that i don't find it worth considering otherwise tbh. As far as Yeonduk having talked to her first, sure, but that ended in her asking if he was done and him leaving. That, and if you think about it, what you just said fits with what i'm hoping will happen. It'll mean that she finds out Skylar hates fencing and lets him quit. I.E. she didn't realize he hates it and when she did she stopped "forcing" him to do it. I mean, MAYBE he buttered her up for Skylar? Again, who knows? That isn't said explicitly or even implied. We can agree that she WAS crazy, now all that's been shown SINCE the crazy is that she's an underhanded bitch who doesn't go out of her way to be nice. We'll see.

Took the words out of my mind, i was like...my god please come to my place next! xD!!!

Come to think of it though, isn't this the same as genocide? I mean, Zeus literally wants to wipe humans out, yes? The method is to make it so that men aren't attracted to women anymore, in other words no more reproduction. It's hot and portrays every "turning" in a positive light where everyone gets to find love (except the guy with glasses that he leaves in the hands of "gang rape" rather than pointing out suitors like he does everyone else), but is that okay? The love is great and all, but i don't deny the role heteros play in the grand scheme, no more reproduction so all this love is going to end up leading to mankind's extinction? I mean, maybe the women will just take sperm donations? But, the entire idea is for humanity to be "destroyed with no bloodshed". I'd still love to be visited by him though! I'm gay already so it wont make a difference for me to be visited~

Well yeah thats the idea of this story...wipe out the human race with just making the male population homosexuals xD tbh i just love the whole sex scenes ...reading it with a hard on because ur lust is greater than ur self control (≧∀≦) ( im also gay so i can understand u completely!)
As for the women either they will do something about it or...maybe the God of sex will fall in love with a guy that he will yet to meet and the whole story will change :o you never know! (▰˘◡˘▰)

OMG ME TOO.
I always end up soaked after every chapter and totally ashamed of my level of lust xD
I'm also a pent-up gay bottom and I'm like "PRIAPUS, WHERE U AT????"

OMG ME TOO.
I always end up soaked after every chapter and totally ashamed of my level of lust xD
I'm also a pent-up gay bottom and I'm like "PRIAPUS, WHERE U AT????"

Nah. The men would all become gay, and since gay guys are known to be a lot less agressive and violent than hetero guys, war would stop everywhere since the gay guys would'nt want to go on fighting.
And the women? don't worry about them... If you knew Greek mythology, you'd know Zeus would take care of them all on his own! No risk of humanity dying out... Zeus has plenty to spare for all womenhood...
so that's the plan. Makes sense. Rght?

That sounds kind of worrying. I'm no feminist, but it struck me as worrisome when you said Zeus would take care of all womenhood. It feels off, like women should have a choice. I know you aren't saying Zeus would like imprison and rape them, but what i mean is the more basic gift of being able to look through many suitors and choose who you want. I mean, he IS a god, so maybe they'd ALL want him, i guess? Kinda like how all the straight guys end up wanting Priapus and turning gay. It's just, all the men would be able to choose between each other, so plenty of options, while as all the women would have 1 option? Or maybe other gods would join in? Naturally there're lesbians as well. I'm trying to put myself in the straight women's shoes and while i think it's shitty they only have 1 option, i have to admit, if i were in the same situation with, say, Priapus, i don't think i'd be angry. So idk. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I like this manga for the smut, great art and actually pretty decent short stories (the straight guy scenarios that lead to the sex.), though i have to admit that the idea of someone "turning" gay kinda irritates me as i've never felt like i chose to be gay, i just was without thinking about it and have always loved everything about men. While all the boys around me started to look at girls, i looked at the boys looking at girls. I won't take this seriously of course as they're literal gods and Priapus uses some strange powers to "turn" them gay, i guess what irritated me is that it didn't feel like they were being magically turned gay, it looked like he was just manipulating their bodies through physical means. Sex so great it turned them gay, in other words. This feels like it's actually "turning" them gay through physical means, like if a gay just "fucked them right" they'd turn gay which could be said in reverse as well. Not keen on the thought of gays turning straight if "fucked right" by a chick. I'm being irrational, i know. Obviously there were some things there a human male couldn't do in the same way Priapus does, but all his "magic" just felt like him enhancing his physical abilities or altering the target's. The stun gun he used on the yakuza guy for example, yes it's magic, but what it does is physical, it just stimulated his anus and prostate so that he'd be easier to enter and would feel good while being fucked. His dick extending "power" just being a physical alteration. The web ability he uses on the mover guy just basically being ropes. The blow up doll is just a sexual anti-stimulus(?), like he makes them physically feel great and then shows them that sex with a woman isn't as good by using the doll. It's all physical, "fucking them gay". The idea here is that they ARE straight, not that they are BI and don't know it, and he's turning them. Like, i get that in real life there're like "turning straights" porn videos and what-not, but in those situations what i think is that those guys were BI all along and didn't realize till they were with a guy. This is different, Priapus is taking confirmed straight guys and "turning" them by fucking them good. Just an off feeling, but i wont bother with it as this is great. ヾ(☆▽☆)

Now that you mentioned it, yes Zeus will take care of it (≧∀≦) ( you reminded me about something i have forgotten).
As for the gay guys being less aggressive than hetero guys, ill have to disagree, sure maybe there are more less aggressive gay guys out there on the streets than straight guys but i have met some hardcore aggressive gays that make most straight guys look either their equals or like wimps in comparison. All i'm trying to say is...sexual orientation doesn't make you more aggressive. (sorry if my English is somewhat bad, not my prime language)(▰˘◡˘▰).

Is it allright if I answer you both in the same reply? You seem to talk about the same thing. (or are the two of you actually one person?)
Anyway, I think you are taking this story, manga in general and my reply all too serious. This isn't real life, this is fantasy: first of all, it's a manga, and the topic is Greek mythology; so real life doesn't come into it at all.
Second: for people who have read or learned about Greek mythology, it would have been clear that Zeus never imprisoned women to do with them what he wanted, but that he had the habit of changing himself into whatever or whomever he wanted in order to appear before a woman of his choice and seduce her. No woman was ever raped or forced to do what he wanted: there are numerous tales about Zeus coming down from Mount Olympos (that's where the Greek gods lived) in the form of a person or a mythological creature or even some animal, visit a woman and made her fall in love with him and have his baby. Greek mythology is full of half-gods, children of a god and a human woman, or of a human man and a godess. And Zeus was the champion of that hobby :-D. The best known half-god was Heracles, better known as Hercules, son of His Majesty Zeus and a girl called Alkmeine.
My Greek teacher told us tons of stories like that. Obviously the author of this manga had Ancient Greek in High School as well, and remembered lots of it...
But it's not to be taken so seriously.
On top of that: this is a comedy story! It's meant to be funny... Japanese people just take sex very serious, not like Westerners, you should have noticed that while reading manga, shouldn't you?
So chill.
Oh, and of course there are agressive gay guys too; it's just that the average numbers of aggressivity among men is about 10% to 90% between gays and straights. But that doesn't mean you can't fantasize about a god trying to end wars on Earth by turning the men all gay...
All the mangaka wants us is to laugh at it, not take it too serious.

Did you really read what i said to you? Your reply makes it look like you didn't. I addressed most of what you said here already, your reply didn't really address the issue i had with your proposal that "Zeus would handle womanhood" and you go off in one part of your reply based on something i specifically said i knew you weren't saying. Okay: The two of us are different people, not sure where you got the idea that we're the same. Did our writing styles even look similar? As far as it "just being a manga that we shouldn't take seriously", i acknowledged in my reply that i felt i was being irrational, it is just a feeling that kinda comes up. Tbh, what you said didn't really address my concern, you just went into further detail about Zeus and how he got women pregnant, my concern was that the women wouldn't have a choice aside from Zeus in the scenario you mentioned. I also acknowledged that "i know it's not like you're saying he'd imprison and rape them", but you still went on responding like i said that's what you were saying. You also mention that "irl shouldn't even come into it", there is no logic here, my own experiences are based in reality, not fiction, so of course what i say is going to be based in reality. I also explained in my reply how, despite Priapus using "magic", it is actually all just physical, i pointed out how all of his "powers" can be compared to reality. That is where i took issue. It gave the impression that he was fucking straights gay, rather than magically changing them. It can be taken as that all those confirmed straight guys just needed to be "fucked right" to turn gay, a popular insult used on gays and what-not. "how do you know you're gay if you've never fucked a woman? Bet you just need fucked right". But i also said that i'm "not going to allow this to bother me as this is a good manga". You just said everything i said like it was some kind of counter argument when it wasn't an argument to begin with. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

LMFAO dude / girl / w.e im not taking this manga seriously ...i was only trying to tell u that what u said wasn't completely true (about the gay guys being less aggressive than str8 guys), it had nothing to do with the manga ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Also i find it funny how u thought we were the same person (≧∀≦)
In any case good luck with your life! xD i said my part :D cya (▰˘◡˘▰)

Wow, my bad, seems like you're totally irritated. Sorry if I didn't read everything the way you wanted me to...
As for Priapos "fucking straights gay", that only would be true if this were a western comic, not a Japanese manga. In Japan, homosexuality was never considered bad and sinful, or even the actual counterpart of "straight", in the litteral sense, as in "bent the wrong way" instead of straight. It wasn't seen that way in Ancient Greece neither, btw. It's a purely Biblical thought that homosexuality is "wrong".
So a Japanese mangaka would never try to give the impression that he wanted to turn the table and make heterosexuality wrong instead: he simply will try to make it as if gay men are less prone to wage war than straight men.
It is true that Priapos's tricks aren't really all that magical, but that too is not to be taken seriously. We're meant to just be laughing about it.
And as for Zeus: the women in the myths about his womanizing are never forced, they are always seduced without even knowing it's him... examples: Heracles's mother Alkmeine never knew she had been unfaithful, since Zeus had taken on the appearance of her husband himself. A girl called Leda was visited by him while he had taken the form of a swan, and a gril called Danae never even saw him, because he had turned himself into a cloud of gold dust, which she saw while sleeping and thought was a dream. Ancient Greek mythology saw rape as something despiccable: plenty of myths of girls chased by men wanting tho rape her and call for the gods to help her, being saved by them trough magic, changing her into a tree, or some other way. And the guys were usually punished. The only real crime for the Greeks was "hubris", sinful pride. And the only woman who ever got hurt by Zeus's womanizing was Hera, his wife, although she was far from a sweet innocent soul either...
Anyway, I was never argumenting, I was simply adding my two cents, since this story brings back my memories from Greek lessons in High School.

Sure, it's a biblical thing, but you're wrong if you think that the bible is the only source of homophobia, it's not just a "western thing", you had mentioned in your previous reply about how i should have learned while reading manga, the same applies here as "homos" are almost never depicted as "normal" in them. This is a cultural thing, not just religious. Japan is just as homophobic as anywhere else, it's still considered "abnormal" so i'm not sure where you're coming from when you make it seem like Japan is this bastion of peace for the gays. It seems like you're just talking out your ass, to be frank. My issue with it looking like he's "fucking them gay" definitely has as much basis, if not more as America is more accepting of gays, in Japan as in America.

As far as "greek mythology seeing rape as despicable", i only know this from earlier today because a comment here was saying it, but if you look it up, Priapus's go to threat was rape. "if you steal from me i'll sodomize you". It's VERY explicit saying things like how he'll leave the anus loose, it can be man, boy or woman and he'll rape them regardless, etc. Also, you actually contradicted yourself, you said "there was no rape" and then said "there were some who didn't even know it happened" and gave the gold mist example. He raped her in her sleep... The example where he took her husband's appearance and raped her as well, it's still rape if she doesn't know who he is... Just because she thought it was her husband doesn't mean it was consensual, she consented to her husband, not him. Besides, there is rape in ALL religions. Dude, you might need to go over your "facts" again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about, you sound like you read the percy jackson books and wanted to go over some mythology so you ignored me explicitly saying "i know you're not saying he will rape or imprison them" so you could talk about it. I read them all too, but the mythology didn't help you or i, it addressed nothing i said as it was in response to something i very clearly said you weren't saying. That sounds harsher than i mean it, but you just tried to say homophobia is a western thing and that rape isn't a thing in greek mythology despite you contradicting yourself and both these statements being identifiably incorrect. If you want to talk about mythology, fine, but your overall tone was very condescending throughout the entire message, tbh. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

You're still ignoring what my real issue was and you're still trying to push your "it's fiction" mentality, which tbh has no logic. I KNOW it's "not supposed to be taken seriously", i've already said i wont and that i realize i'm being irrational (irrational means you can't help it. It's a comparison that i can't help but notice. The way Priapus uses physical means to manipulate confirmed straight guys' bodies into turning gay is easily comparable to the insult thrown around irl. But, again, i wont let it bother me), but ANY time you comment on a work of fiction your opinion is going to be based on your real life experiences as you aren't a fictional character in a book. Naturally you're going to make irl comparisons. I'm not saying the two are 100% comparable, but you'll make comparisons where you can.

I throughly agree with it .sumed up perfectly .thats how i saw the whole situation too. And just to say we are not defending rape nor do we condone it .its just our perspective towards the whole situation .rape is horrible and nobdoy feel good with rape and fell in love with the rapist .it was a uke in denial which he alreay cleared in last page of chapter 4 .i never said okay to hikaru in kokoro o korosu that it is not rape beause it was a horrible one . Well that was just an example .
You are very strong by the way,i applaud here .you stick to your word and didn't loose you composure kudos to you.

I lost my composure at like 2 people, but only after they started calling me names... They literally just dropped any pretenses of civil discussion... (￣∇￣")

(≧∀≦) oh well you be rude you get rude ,you be nice you get nice right....still you hold you conversation nicely especially when most of the people were against you. it is so scary i deleted my account once because of that lolol .this is my second and the moment someone's starts to get angry i feel like now we are not gonna have a valid arguement so i ignore and move on .i envy you.you stick to your statement and you are good in english .i am horrible at it Σ( ￣□￣||) and you are nice to me so i am happy lol

I try DESPERATELY to maintain a civil discussion. I really do. I'm open to being swayed too. Amy one of those people could've swayed me had they had dialogue/evidence backing what they were saying, the issue was that they were all just telling me their interpretations. I don't get swayed by how you think something looks, i get swayed by you backing up why you think something looks like that. Some of them gave some dialogue like 1. "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me", i explained that this is out of context, if you read the scene in it's entirety you can see that he isn't saying he's scared of Kureshima himself, he's scared because Kureshima sees through him. He says this on ch 3, pg 14-15. 2. "Who am i fooling? My ass is bleeding and sore. He didn't stop no matter how much it hurt", i went into this one in my comment above.

-accidentally clicked post...- And 3. "he screams no", i replied to this saying that that is actually wrong. The "nooo!" on ch 23, pg 29 is actually an SFX, a sound effect that the translator put in there themselves. The SFXs are at the mercy of the translators' interpretations, if they thought ch 3 was rape and decided to put a rapey SFX there to match their interpretation, it's going to effect how the readers view the scene as well. What's funny is that the SFX text in there doesn't even translate to "nooo!", i think i was onto something and the translator DID just put whatever they wanted there.

You can be in love or sexually attracted to seomone, still you have all rights to refuse to have sex. Its not about delusions anymore
No is no, and everyone should decide what they want to do with their body

though the "rape" was just part of the story. I enjoyed reading this manga haha
I can under stand why you are thinking this way I guess :)

That's still pretty messed up lol

I understand fully what you are trying to say . I think they think diffrently i guess .they might have their own perception and way of seeing things diffrent than us .the way we interpret words they interpret diffrently. What upset me the most when people blame us for condoning or defending rape .no way in hell i am defending rape i am defending what i see . There is a term dubious consent there for a reason like these .i don't see why the defination of real life rape is applied to yaoi dub con when it is unrealistic to the core .

But he only said no to the masturbation, before agreeing to do it. He never said no to the sex.

I do agree with you of course, him threatening to leave if he doesn't masturbate is shitty. I just think the situation you're describing and the pne in this manga aren't the same. You said "no means no", but he never said no. Except to the masturbation, before he agreed to do it.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kajou_mousou_shounen/uu/m_chapter-3/pg-29/
I'm losing faith in humanity here

Lol, i know what you mean, but bear with me. That's an SFX, it isn't dialogue, Oono doesn't say it. The SFX is a sound effect that the translators put there at their whim, the text in that SFX bubble doesn't translate to "nooo!" either. I think what happened here is that the translator thought it was rape and put a rapey SFX there to match what they thought was going on. Translators are just normal people like you and me, subject to looking at the same images we do. This translator must've saw ch 3 and thought it was rape so they put "nooo" there and now the scene looks worse than it is. (￣∇￣") I've literally seen people here on mangago pick up projects to translate, even people putting direct copy/pastes to the text bubbles from google translate. Literally anyone who knows how to translate can do this.

The sfx is literally iaa
いや iya means no (less polite)
From wikipedia
Japanese

Stop denyin it's rape lol it is but the quality of the manga isn't affected by it. idk what you're trying to prove but its all bullshit

Maybe need more evidence??????

-in addition to this^- if you look at Oono's mouth on that page he doesn't even look like he's screaming. The translator put an incorrect translation into that SFX bubble, so it doesn't even say "no", and his mouth doesn't even look like he's screaming. See what i mean? Kureshima got his consent to watch him masturbate and then got him horny and progressed to sex. Pretty standard. Oono didn't say ANYTHING during the sex. That's why i don't think this situation and the one you described are quite the same.

That character you just showed isn't even the same as the one in the bubble. I have them pulled up side by side.

Its in katakana Ive been learnin japanese for 3 years there are two different alphabet

Both イア and いや are read the same way
Go educate yourself first

Lol you guys are ridiculous now I know how to read japanese why would I lie to you anyway

Okay, but the two characters you just showed don't match what is in that test box. Anyways, it's whatever. I only started talking to you because you came across respectful, but you've been REALLY rude for some reason. It's fine if you don't agree, i'm just saying that you're wrong about that saying "iya", i have page 29 pulled up and i'm looking at it with the two characters you just showed for "iya" and they don't match?

Take a look again please. I'm not lying :
イア
And it means no
Im annoyed pretty easily
That's too bad. Sorry I though that we could just talk about it but you're saying nonsense like "he didn't say no to the sex" and denying the fact that the characters match

Its too much to bare and even a little bit painful that people can be blinded so much.

Let me entertain you then, let's pretend that those characters even match. So what? Why are you saying that that is him protesting rather than a moan or just a grunt of pain? It's his first time so it would hurt. If he doesn't want the sex, why doesn't he KEEP saying "no" or anything else? Why does he only kick Kureshima off AFTER he's been fucked for a while? it shows Kureshima holding his leg up in ch 4, so he was laying there taking it for a bit. Why does the rest of what happened not matter to you? None of that dialogue i went over in my comment makes you think that maybe, if he did say no, it wasn't about the sex so much as that it hurt for a little before he loosened up and got used to it? I mean, why would he say no if he "yearned to be touched" and "reality was much better than delusion"?

So what? Then he said no. He enjoyed it? Yes he did, but he said no
I'll leave now
Just think about it
Hope it never happens to you. But in any case maybe you'll learn that no can sometimes be useful when you want to express your feelings

But he didn't say "no" to any questions asked. He said no as he was being penetrated, why do you think he was saying "no, i don't want this sex"? Since it happened while he was being penetrated, doesn't it seem more like he was just saying no BECAUSE of the penetration? Similar to yelling yes? When people yell yess during sex do you assume they're saying "yes, i want this sex" or just letting out a moan? People say no in the same way they say yes in this context.

Furthermore, he didn't say "no, stop", he just said "no". Assuming the letters even match. Why say just "no" if it was a protest? Just "no", in the context of someone saying it mid-sex while being penetrated comes across as more of a moan to me than a protest. If he'd said "no, stop" or "i don't want it" i'd have agreed with you hands down.

Yeah what you say makes sense
But there are so many things. The fact that the seme is in a position of superiority cause he knows his secret, even his expression, the sfx, the "bleeding part".
Cause you said that he couldn't accept the fact that he liked him. But if he doesn't accept it, then it's his choice. He doesn't accept his love so he doesn't accept the sex even if he enjoys it a lot and even if he's probably in love with him or at least sexually attracted

But still
He doesn't accept this-> he doesn't accept the sex->it is not consentual anymore-> it's rape

-sorry, had to sleep for a bit, just now seeing this- Sure, i can see what you mean, but the understanding between the two of them is that they both know that he DOES want to be touched, it's what they're talking about leading up to the sex, the dialogue i talked over in my comment above. Also, Kureshima wasn't told anything he was thinking, i had said this, but at most all he's heard from Oono during the sex is "no" one time when he penetrates Oono at first, which is suspiciously the 1st time he gets thrust into, when it WOULD hurt. As far as Kureshima being "in a position of power", isn't that just because Oono is in denial? Kureshima comes across as "in control" because he's essentially chastising Oono for acting like he doesn't already know whats going on. If you look at the scene again Kureshima never uses ANY physical force. He just pushed him back onto the bed, he never holds him down or anything, Oono just stays in the position Kureshima lays him down in. Sorry, i've gtg to work for a bit.

I'm back, if you want to continue talking, alright. If not, that's fine too, i just ask that you say so in a manner fitting a decent person.

This is just SAD. More than anything else, this is the reason why I despise rape being treated so light heartedly in Yaoi. Some people actually think what is happening here should be applied to reality, and than defend it on top of that.

Let me tell you something. If ANYONE says "No" during, before, or even after a sexual act than it IS non consensual, meaning that it is rape. I don't give a fuck about what that characters were 'thinking' about, 'hinting' at, or what the body language said.

Once someone says 'No' all actions should come to a stop. Otherwise it IS dubious consent at the least, and no consent at the worst.

You only see it one way , even i despise rape in yaoi manga . The fact that that people call shit like these rape is what i am more sad about .rape is not people fall in love with the rapist and act like it is no big deal .people shout rape rape for yaoi like these when they themselves know how horrible actually rape is. It is dubious consent .rape is not light lie this .yaoi rape i hate te word itself rape is not like this .rape is not somethong light.

This^

Also, you're being seriously naive if you don't think people say "no" during sex as a moan rather than a protest. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

Cool
Keep going on this way
Rape is not something light isn't it ? Pull yourself together and stick to what you think is true

Get over it, hope you won't accidentally rape seomone because you thought they loved you...

Yes (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

Thank you! Its rape and all this justification is nonsense, if you are kool with being treated like that more power to you bro. But at the end of the day either you like the manga, the characters and the development or you don’t, there really is no reason to justify it because you are enjoying the read. I like my aggressive seme’s as much as the next guy but it’s not okay to treat people like that and say it’s all for the sake of getting them to accept their true feelings and then expect it to be all good. I’m not targeting this commenter specifically just happened to stop here after reading a few. I may drop it because I don’t like the dynamic and I’m not shipping them and I’ve seen my fair share of yaoi rape because its popular now, some stories I like some I don’t
╮(￣▽￣)╭

How far back in the comments are you reading?! This is like SO far back, i'm not even sure how you found it! I suggest re-reading, the dialogue suggests otherwise, i'm not willing to discuss this again.

Ugh no worries I’m not over here trying to have a conversation with you we clearly have different views I said what I said and that’s all that’s required. Peace out (〜￣△￣)〜

Yeah, you too, it's just as you can see i've already went in depth on this subject with multiple people, some of them rude, and it's been a while since anyone was on this comment as it's really far back. Nothing against you, i'm just not going to open up that old can of worms again. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Maybe it’s a romanticized depiction of rape where everything is justified because the victim was totally in love with the victim. It’s not that fucking deep. It’s a shitty plot device that’s used in countless Yaoi.
And man you sure know a lot about a fictional character to be able to pick out the exact meaning and sentiment behind one sentence. It seems to me like you’re the one who’s reading much deeper into this than you’re supposed to.
Chill down. It’s not that deep. It’s the classic “Seme rapes Uke but Uke realizes afterwards that he has feelings for Seme so it’s okay” plot line

*victim was totally in love with the rapist

It's not that i'm "reading into" anything, read the chapter yourself and see that the meaning was obvious. You replied like SECONDS after i posted, i can tell that you're SO set on your opinion that you'd rather instantly argue rather than go check to verify that what i'm saying isn't true.

Did you even read what i said here? If not, leave. I have no time for people who refuse to at least check through the facts and discern the reality of things themselves. You're so stuck on ch 3's scene that you're literally arguing with the guy involved in the actual scene's dialogue.

I just reread it. It’s sloppily written to justify the seme’s actions and yeah at the end the Uke dies say he “secretly wanted it all along” but he sure as Hell did not act like it.
If someone you were having sex with was crying and not looking like they were enjoying it you would stop. It doesn’t matter if he secretly enjoyed it. The Seme isn’t a mind reader and until this chapter the Uke showed no signs of “desperately wanting the Seme”

Also who’s set in their opinions? You refuse to even consider what other people say and are so set on your opinions being fact that you take a condescending tone with whoever responds to you as if they didn’t read the exact same story you did.

"crying", he had tears in his eyes and was blushing... This after saying that he "is starting to feel like last time (horny)"... You'll see whatever you want to though. Not that it matters because, again, that's just you projecting what you think he was feeling when he said how he was feeling himself. As far as it being "poorly written", no it wasn't, you probably ONLY read the end so you're detached from the context. Read the CHAPTER with what i said in this comment in mind, things'll click.

He was fucking him from behind. Before the penetration he just looked horny, like he literally says he is. You're seriously reaching saying he was "crying".

I read the entire story multiple times. Also people get turned on during rape. It happens.
And yes this story is badly written. The Seme and Uke are going to end up together despite the Seme being an urepentent asshole and it’s all gonna be handwaved and justified because of how in “love” he was.
I’m not responding anymore. Clearly you’re a person who only sees what they want to see.

-ignores dialogue, even argues with the dialogue saying that he was "intending to blame Kureshima"- "you only see what you want to see". Lol. I suppose Oono, the guy himself, saying he was in denial and intentionally blaming Kureshima can be interpreted another way?

I will reply one more time. Regardless of the Uke’s thoughts on the matter after the fact [which are a shitty excuse for the two to end up together]. The Seme has no way of knowing this and even if he “couldn’t see his face” he could tell that something was off. The entire seem involved no communication and was overly forceful.
The way you try and justify a shitty Yaoi trope is disgusting.

Lol, it's not "after the fact" he's talking about how he's been feeling all along, including during the sex... But i guess you'll do whatever you can to think of this as rape. "he could tell something was off", how exactly? There is more evidence pointing to the contrary, Kureshima is smiling while he fucks Oono if you look at the beginning of ch 4, Kureshima comes in acting normal till he sees Oono is upset which was a major point of interest in ch 4 that i guess you missed (?) and when Oono blows up asking why he did it he says "you know why"... The clear implication is he had sex with him out of love and Oono knows that, hence on saying "i pretended not to know" at the end of ch 4. There is overwhelming evidence against what you're saying.

You’re wrong but okay. If this is the hill you want to die in then you do you

Hence Oono*

Lol, if you have a counter argument with actual text implying that it was rape feel free. The dialogue at the end of ch 4 counters the text at the beginning saying "he didn't stop no matter how much it hurt" when he says he was in denial and intended to blame Kureshima. Is there more text i'm missing that isn't covered? Feel free and point it out. I'll wait.

The text alone isn’t the only evidence. It’s a visual media my guy. Maybe the fact that he kicks the Seme away? Oh but I guess that destiny count cause he didn’t do it right away and that means it’s not rape for some reason.
My dude it’s only you and like five other people who think this wasn’t rape.

Sorry but hmmm to me it's pretty clear what Oono was feeling in this scene, despite whatever he might have said later on

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kajou_mousou_shounen/uu/m_chapter-3/pg-29/

We can speculate how certain things happened and how certain characters felt if we are not watching a scene happen in front of our eyes, and instead are simply "told" by one of the parts about the events afterwards. This doesn't happen here. Oono is crying and screaming NO repeatedly. He is afraid and confused during and after the act. You can literally see it in the panels, we don't have to project anything. Oono contradicting himself by the end of ch4 is actually just the seme's plan working: giving Oono a place to belong to ("it's lonely being alone"), and then taking that place away when Oono doesn't respond to him in the way he wants. Oono isn't "in love" with the seme; he is lonely, traumatized, and guilty - something we can SEE in the panels, even if Oono himself convinced himself he actually "wanted" an act during which he cried all the time.

He's not "crying and screaming no", he says himself that Kureshima is making him horny when Kureshima starts dirty talking to him in ch 3, "it's starting to feel like last time". A A character going from "i feel horny" to showing his blushing face with tears in his eyes is "crying" to you? He never screams either, that's an SFX, not dialogue and the text in it doesn't translate to "noooo!", the translator's at fault for the misinterpretation there. That was clearly a horny face, you're delusional if you seriously think that he looked like he wanted to get away. The only page where i could see it even remotely looking "off" is on pg 29 and 30, but in these pages he's thinking deeply so of course his expression changed. Anyways, again, it doesn't matter HOW IT LOOKED like Oono was feeling when he TELLS us how he was feeling. He explicitly says "i yearned to be touched again". He's saying he wanted the sex. He even goes on to say "reality is much better than delusion", after saying he was in denial and "intended to blame Kureshima". He's talking about how he felt DURING AND after. It's not "after the fact".

It was JUST a visual interpretation till ch 4, but now we have dialogue FROM Oono telling us explicitly "i yearned to be touched again" and "i pretended not to notice and intended to blame Kureshima". He's literally saying he wanted it. As in, it was consensual. He kicked Kureshima away because he wasn't sure what his intentions were. I've already addressed this. Multiple lines of dialogue explicitly show this. Look at Oono's inner monologue when Kureshima tells him to masturbate in ch 3. As well as "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me", look at ch 4 when Kureshima comes to class and talks to him, he gets mad because he thinks Kureshima acting like nothing happened means he was being played with after all before yelling "so you were messing with me!". Doesn't matter how it LOOKED when Oono is telling us the reality. Not sure what your point is about people agreeing/disagreeing with me. It has no bearing on either argument.

It's literally because people like you that we have the #metoo movement. And y'all seriously arguing over a yaoi manga, a freaking YAOI manga; a genre that makes money off the raping of the uke till he becomes a Stockholm syndrome victim. But yeah, he TOTALLY (clearly sarcasm) was soooo horny to the point he kicked his attacker, man if that doesn't scream love I don't know what does lol

Please tell me what where those "not tears" falling from his eyes from page 28-33 of chapter 3. Lol I bet you're the type of person to say rape victims "asked for it"

THANK YOU. A big applause, human! (I'm not being sarcastic when I said human, I just don't want ti trigger anyone)

Wait a sec. Did you just ccompare reality with a entirely different world? Dude, seriously? This is a fictional story. The fact that you even thought if rl while reading this just........ I don't know how you read books. Do you just compare them all with rl? Seriously? If what you said had to be taken into account, then that means every single thing that happen in yaoi SHOULD happen in rl too. Like, uke falling for seme because he was kind, seme falling for uke because he's nice, magical swords, dragons, fairy dust, pixies... Unbelievable!

Oh, okay.

I'm actually not, but i can tell you won't hear anything i say with all that ideology in your head, so i'll ask you: please leave me in peace.

Lol, thanks. Good job using the gender neutral pronoun btw, these be treacherous waters for people who think with logic rather than their feelings. -looks over at weirdoz- Can't be TOO safe with all this justice orbiting my post... (￣∇￣")

LOL.... I seriously like your wording

Anyways I'm really trying to see y'all's point in "this is not rape" argument trust me I read through the multiple copy and pasted (because it's become borderline redundancy) on how now that the victim has blossomed into this new found likeliness for his "friend," so it isn't rape, and ooooh he's blushing and feeling good so it's obviously not rape and he liked it

So I'll go back to my question "please tell me what those *not tears* were from page 28-33 of chapter 3" because if you can give me a reason as to how those were not the tears and resistance of a victim, I'll get on my knees and praise you for opening my eyes to a new perspective.

Darling, do yourself a favor. These people are dumb af. Don't ruin your time in convincing these people otherwise. It's pointless to talk with them when they think their point is perfect and doesn't even care to take others opinions into account. Don't waste your time on them. We know what's right and we could keep it to ourselves. I've seen people like these. It's like talking to a stone, no worse, a radio. No matter what you say, they aren't gonna hear but you will ALWAYS hear their pointless talk. It's no use. Let's just stick to our dignity and save our time, shall we? You know it's right and that's enough. You don't have to convince anything to anyone. Especially people who you've never met. Most of them could be trolling for all we know. So, honey, please stop. Let's just let them say whatever they want and just read other manga and chill. Kay?


NOTE : This mail is ONLY for the tagged person and NOBODY else. So, just don't reply to this and I don't wanna hear anyone else's same old comments. Just don't. Save me from the hasle of talking to stones. Just ignore this.

Sure, if you look at that scene in it's entirety you'll see Oono hesitant at first before Kureshima suddenly starts talking dirty and Oono says "i'm starting to feel like the same as back then". Here he is saying that he is getting horny, he's referring to his last delusion where Kureshima talked dirty for him and then pressed his foot to Oono's dick to help him finish. He's saying he's getting horny like last time. This moves on to Kureshima asking who he is imagining in his head right now, Oono realizes he's imagining Kureshima doing all the things in the dirty talk and tries to deny it so Kureshima calls him out saying that it was him Oono was imagining in the park too. And that he has been there during a lot of Oono's delusions and Oono never had any issues getting hard despite him being there. He's saying that Oono is lying to himself and Oono realizes this, but is in denial as he says at the end of ch 4. This is when Kureshima pushes Oono back onto the bed. People don't understand the purpose of this scene, it was to make Oono face reality. That he IS interested in Kureshima already. He has been since the park delusion as Kureshima says. The reason Kureshima talks to Oono normally right after the sex is because he thought he got through to Oono, that he'd be more honest now. That's why he gets angry in ch 4 when Oono pretends like he doesn't know why Kureshima fucked him. "you know why" is what he says. Ch 3 and 4 are about getting rid of Oono's denial. They both know that Oono is already in love. Please read ch 3 and 4 with this in mind.

So, lemme guess, you've NEVER seen tears from a uke in a manga with consensual sex??? Seriously??? It's in every single manga. The uke cries out of joy or some crap. Wha..... You know what... Don't. You can keep your beliefs. I'm not gonna say anything. Just ignore this.

I think they might understand after reading my reply to them. I hope so? This stuff is CLEAR to me, i want others to see it too. I'm fine with the hate, my goal here is to convey exactly what it is i see when i read this.

The purpose of the dialogue at the end of ch 4 was to tell us that he didn't really hate the sex, he wanted it, but was denying it even to himself. He "intended to blame Kureshima" like he says. The dialogue where he talks about how the sex hurt is only a half truth, he was lying. I'm sure it does hurt as it was his 1st time, but he actually felt good. He's lying to himself, do you see it? The dialogue where he says "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me", this is another half truth. He doesn't mean he's literally scared of him, he means he's scared to face his feelings for Kureshima. He says this after Kureshima forces Oono to acknowledge that he's imagining Kureshima and not Sasaki.

Well, all of us different. So, then carry on, fam. Good luck. I'm pretty sure most would get it now.

Le

O/

My response below titled "be patient while reading ch 4" explains my interpretation of the events as well as the MCs' intentions and emotions. This comment is in response to the replies people left that, they think, de-legitamizes my 1st comment. I don't agree with them and said why, hopefully this allows room for thought in everyone's heads, some people are literally just not open to the idea that it might not have been rape which makes no sense to me.

DUDE I DONT EVEN WANNA READ ALLA THIS. ITS OKAY JUST READ THE MANGA, NO ONE IS GOING TO JUDGE U, EVEN IM GOING TO KEEP READING THIS MANGA. IT WAS RAPE, AND IT WAS INTENDED TO BE RAPE. You don’t have to justify it I’m just amused at why you are defending this so Stubbornly. I would prefer scenes like this didn’t exist at all in BL but it’s common, and just be aware that this manga romanticized rape and move on with reading,
. That’s it. It doesn’t matter. (I mean it does but I’m obviously gunna get no where with this lol)

It wasn't at you specifically, it was at the general public, i said that at the beginning. If you don't want to talk then just say so, jesus. You're hurtful you know?

To me it seems as though you're using too much context. Even if Oono wanted the seme at some point that doesn't mean that he couldn't be raped by the seme. People get raped while in relationships frequently enough, even in marriages. Just because you consent at one point doesn't mean that you have given consent for all the next times. Also, I agree with the humansin; you're way too focused on this. You should move on after saying your piece rather than reposting everything you've already said.

Yeah, i never said "if you give consent you always give consent". The difference here is that in those instances the victim resisted/made it clear they don't want it and the abuser knowingly continued. Rather than rape, i'm arguing that this is a classic example of someone being talked into a sexual act and then swept along into sex. Any time you agree to a sexual act there is inherently the possibility of it progressing. Would you say talking someone into sex is rape? As far as me "moving along", i'm posting my thoughts on this comments section because i want to. It's hard for the passing person to see everything i had to say if it's not all in one comment.

I reposted for obvious reasons, by doing so i was able to condense and better word everything while making it look cleaner. With everything there in one comment people can see everything that was said without having to read EVERYTHING and with everything easily accessible it should stop people from asking the same questions/bringing up the same things.

honestly the dumbest argument I've ever heard. I could be fuckin head over heels for a guy but not want them to shove their dick inside of me because i 'love theM uWu.' Also oh ok yep def didn't show any resistance, him kicking him like that and pushing him away was just a joke 100% conveys how much he wanted to have sex i agree makes perfect sense absolutely flawless wowie

100% Agree with Born, Eclipse and thehumansin.
Wrogn your argument is invalid. Search up rape and it says plain as day you have to say something along the lines of "I want it" every single time you have sex otherwise it's rape. There are some case where you should make sure afterwards and the person either says they wanted it or not but you normally do hear a response to indicate they want it - indicating it's consensual - during.
No consent, no sex. It's just rape if either partner does not explicitly state that they agreed in some way. In this case Oono didn't agree at all, he was told that he was going to lose his friend but he didn't 'make the moves' on his partner or say something like 'why not' so he wasn't even talked into it he was just stripped and forced to have sex, even the position made it hard for Oono to resist as his movements where restrained (due to the position) but he did manage to kick Kureshima which causing the bruise. Plus Oono had no time to be able to formulate a response/ give consent anyway, it happened so quick and he basically went into shock, too scared to say anything. He even states at the end of the chapter that Kureshima scares him.
You're like a lawyer trying to justify why the perpetrators action weren't rape.
No consent, no sex. No reason justify rape.

I had said he didn't put up resistance till the kick, my point was why would Kureshima stop till then with no reason to think he should? When he had a reason he did.

I disagree. There is nothing implying consent has to be said aloud. I'd even argue that it's more common for people to just go right into sex than to ask consent first. Spontaneous consensual sex is a very common reality. If you disagree then thats fine, but no need for name calling. I already addressed the "he scares me" line, did you read what i had to say? I don't think you did, you're so set on this being rape that you didn't bother to read anything i said. So, Eclipse actually didn't say much, not sure what you mean by you "agree" with them, if you agree with thehumansin that's fine, but maybe you should read my rebuttles to what they had to say? I feel i addressed all their points pretty well. It came down to a difference in opinions between them and i and while they did get irritated, they were relatively open to discussion and even acknowledged when i had a point or when they understood what i was saying. Want to try the same?

Also, you're actually making the same misunderstanding that Eclipse was under. In those instances, those being rape within established relationships, the difference is that the victim makes it clear they don't want it and the abuser continues even knowing this. It's literally just not the same scenario.

(*disclaimer* i dont really hate the seme or stories like this, ive read plenty in the past and will continue to read them, i just r e a l l y dont agree with what's being said here lmao). I (tried to) read through the entire thread to see what points were being made. I read through the other threads too, just for more context. The only conclusion I can get from this is: wow, this sounds just like what a rapist might say. Like dude i'm sorry but, if he's literally screaming no (judging by that sfx in chapter 3, i'm pretty sure he's *screaming/shouting* no) then i'm pretty sure that's not consent. Not once did he say "oh yes please take me hnng~" or even just a simple "ok" or "yes". What your arguement sounds and looks like (based on the actual manga and these threads) is "he showed no resistance, said he loves the seme and there was heavy petting previously so he must be ok with sex". Are you reading what you're saying?? Doesnt that sound super rapey to you??? If someone shoved their dick in me and then used those points as an arguement i'd take them to court lmao like did it not occur to you that maybe, just MAYBE, like in a shit ton of other rape cases out there (in r e a l l i f e), the victim might've gone into a state of shock and been unable to rationally process the situation? Not everybody will attack their rapist or go to the police about it, that's why so many cases get out of hand and last much longer than they should. The victim is shocked and has no idea what to do, especially if they like the perp in the first place. Also lol "but did you read the end of the chapter? He clearly says he enjoyed it and loves the seme" ok but did you read the beginning where he literally said it was extremely painful and his ass is bleeding. Bleeding. The day after it all happened, he's still bleeding. Does that sound normal?? Consent is now "i'm ok with heavy petting but not sex- hey please take your penis out of me it hurts- dude i like you but this really hurts and i'm not ready for this p l e a s e im bleeding". Though, dont get me wrong, it's not like i'm saying YOU'RE a rapist, i'm just saying the shit you said sounded super rapey lmao. I'm also pretty sure other people feel the same way. It's not that we're completely missing the point of your arguement or just straight up ignoring it, it's just that it sounds really rapey and weird. I saw that you made some points along the lines of "before the kick, seme didnt have a reason to stop" and "spontaneous sex isnt uncommon". Dude, what? Even if it doesnt start out as rape (during the heavy petting parts, it wasnt rape. He was ok with it, i know that), if at some point someone decides they dont wanna fuck/be fucked but are forced to anyway, it's rape. Unless someone says or shows a clear sign that they want to be fucked, you probably shouldnt fuck them. If you decide to fuck them anyway and they show even the slightest bit of resistance, then it's rape. I dont know if you saw the chapters in a different way or something, but during the sex scene, all i saw was a crying kid that doesnt want to be in this situation. Even if after it all, days later, he says that he enjoyed it, at the time it was clearly rape. Even if he was blushing and the "no" was in sfx, he clearly wasnt ok with what was happening. You can visibly tell the difference between blushing and saying no to sex that was consented with, and the same to rape. To me, all i saw was rape. I'm not "forcing" it to be rape, its just an observation me and quite a few other people have made. This became way longer than intended lmao. Pls keep this in mind lol k rant over ٩(•ᵕ•๑)ᵒᵏᵎᵎᵎᵎ

Firstly, I mentioned you normally figure out/ hear during sex whether it's consensual but it's still better and legally yes there has to be some sort of spoken consent or spoken resist like saying 'no'. It's easy to get consent anyways as it's easy to say I want it. I know what spontaneous consensual sex is and of course both parties would know they're into it by one another actions and verbal responses like 'oh yeah baby', 'harder' and 'feels so good' yaknow those kind of phrases used during sex to show that you actually like it and even doing something on the other person shows your consent to it like moving in to give someone a blowjob, if you push away or say no then no blowjob. However Oono despite saying he liked the sex in chapter 4 at the end after coming to his resolution that he might like Kureshima, we never got a clear definition of him actually wanting to have sex. Kureshima just pushed himself onto Oono and got him into a sex position which isn't exactly the easiest to resist especially when your areas are being stimulated.
Secondly, there was no name calling, I think it's rather childish you thought me saying you sound like a lawyer was offensive (as you've refered to it as name calling). Clearly I haven't read all your comments at first as I believe it's rape, I was blind sighted by how you haven't even looked at it as it being rape, it just felt like you where trying to defend the actions of a guy because he pushed himself onto Oono.
I have since read them all and I do still disagree with the he scares me comment, yes he tells you why - he doesn't understand him and his actions but the he scares me still means that Kureshima as a person scares him because of what he can't understand about him.
Thirdly, the feeling consent... If you say you didn't want it in court the re-butle of 'did you say no or try to stop it' doesn't work because as I said above he could've been in shock and over come with pleasure and actually it's not always wanted pleasure. It's like if you're drunk one scenario could be another drunk person rubbing on your crotch area but you're drunk, it feels good but you don't really know what to do so most often people just 'go with the flow' but they where intoxicated, both of them so how can we prove they wanted to do those things together? (drunkness being used as a likeness to feeling pleasured) Another scenario could be two drunk people dancing and one of them decides to start grinding up against the other one, what would we class that?
Although if we look at the beginning of chapter 4 Oono is very upset with Kureshima and thinks 'Who am I fooling' 'My ass is sore and still bleeding' 'No matter how much it hurt, he didn't stop' and yes this is nit picking details but the page where it says this it also puts the sfx of 'chills' on the page prompting that it's not a pleasant memory.
Also throughout the chapter he's upset with Kureshima because he pretends like nothing happens and Oono only seems to be swayed when he realised he's alone again and then he becomes jealous of Kureshima being in a relationship and seeing him with the other girl at the end triggered him to realise he likes him
As said before by thehumansin this manga seems to romanticise rape as Oono seems to only realise he liked Kureshima after them having sex that was too rough and unsolicited. (baring in mind I'm saying it is rape romanticising but read the rest of the paragraph) and in a lot of rape manga the victim doesn't want it to happen (especially if they do have some lingering feelings, they don't want it to happen that way/be to aggressive and lacking intimate) hence why Oono even thinks further in the chapter 'how dare this guy' 'after what he did' in the context of Kureshima asking Oono if he tried fantasied about Sasaki and asking him to tell him. Along with him being upset that Kureshima asking him about if he's trying to fantasise about another girl after them having sex (Kureshima pretending they didn't have sex still) he's still upset that he did it like that with the phrases 'how dare this guy' and 'after what he did' where used instead of 'how could he say that' and 'after we just did that'. Oono even says he's blaming Kureshima a lot during the chapter.
Going back to the in a lot of rape manga, the victim liking the perpetrator often gives the perpetrator a 'pass' because they convince themselves it wasn't actually rape when they didn't want it at the time. They convince themselves because they love the person and that the person didn't do anything wrong because 'I love him so even though I didn't say I wanted it then I love him so it's okay'. Hopefully this manga doesn't turn out like that and if this manga is indeed intended to be a rape romanticising manga I a least hope Kureshima gets some sort of reprimand for his actions and Oono doesn't just throw himself at Kureshima but makes Kureshima be more patient because Kureshima seemed to be completely swept up in the moment as to let the person he likes bleed during sex (yes I know this can happen a lot but he didn't prepare Oono adequately/ he made sure Oono's asshole was wide enough for his cock, we didn't see him stop or try to be considerate of Oono/ ask him if he's okay at all throughout the sex scene, we didn't even see if Kureshima did any after care which seems to be unlikely too since Oono mentions it's still bleeding instead of saying it's not as bad as before)
Overall, the manga seems to be portraying that it was a rape scene but they're just brushing off the severity and romanticising it, which isn't the best but it is what it is.
I acknowledge your opinion and believe that you believe that this isn't 'rape' but obviously my opinion and several others on this topic and the one before believe it's rape.
The only way to know if it was rape or not completely would be by the mangaka saying whether it was meant to be a rape scene, which we'll probably find out in the next chapter or it'll be left a mystery/ open to interpretation.

I'll respond going down your response:

"If he's screaming no, judging by that SFX, then i'm pretty sure that's rape."- That's the thing though, SFX isn't dialogue, it's a sound effect that the translator puts there. In ch 3, pg 30 another SFX used is "schlop, schlop", Kureshima isn't literally saying "schlop, schlop" here, it's a random noise that the translator thought goes best there. I think the same happened here, the translator saw the scenes and thought they looked like rape and decided to throw in a rape warning and add "noooo!" there to push their interpretation home. To make it seem more rapey. If you look at Oono's facial expression there, it doesn't look like a scream, it looks like a moan. I feel a more proper, less rapey SFX to put there would've been "ahh!~".

I'm replying to a big portion here: "-starting with- Not once did he say "oh, yes~ please take me~ or even just a single yes or ok. What your argument sounds and looks like is "he showed no resistance, said he loved the seme and there was heavy petting previously so he must've been okay with it... -ending with- To me, all i saw was rape. I'm not "forcing" it to be rape, it's just an observation me and quite a few others made."- Well, yeah? If we're talking about whether or not a character was feeling raped while having sex, then it makes sense to look at dialogue from his mouth about how he feels about the guy. It's not like he just forgot about the sex long enough to say everything at the end of ch 4, he said it all with the sex included in his mind, so logic dictates that he is saying this is how he felt DURING the sex as well, yes? You're placing a lot of what YOU THINK he was feeling on him, but he actually talks about how he was feeling himself. Not "days later" like you said, but DURING as well. You're ignoring that and saying he "said that in hindsight and that it isn't how he felt at the time", but he talks about how he felt AT THE TIME. You're just projecting whatever you want onto him. As far as you saying he "never said anything to indicate he wanted it like "oh yes" or "take me"", that's the thing, he didn't say ANYTHING, which is why it was so confusing how he was feeling during the sex, but if we're talking actual dialogue ABOUT the sex he DOES actually say a few things, albeit after. Like you mentioned, he says "his asshole is bleeding and sore and that Kureshima didn't stop no matter how much it hurt". If you take this at face value, out of context of the rest of ch 4 it does look like he's saying he didn't want the sex, but if you take in the rest of ch 4 where he expands on these thoughts he goes on to say "there's no way for us to go back to how we used to be and i cannot forgive him(goes on in a second to say he intended to blame him, denial), and yet what i truly want to happen-- this odd feeling (love), prickling me... It's-- NOT TRUE!-- Just now, what was i thinking? How unfair, i should be the only one (jealous of the new girlfriend, he the only one who should be touched by Kureshima, he says this while watching Kureshima touch her)... It can't be true. I pretended not to know. I intended to blame him, but deep down, i've always had delusions about him (literally saying here he intended to blame Kureshima for the sex). I didn't want to just watch (the delusions), i yearned to be touched again (literally saying he's always wanted to be touched by Kureshima). I was afraid that he'll see through me. Reality feels much better than delusions (literally saying here that the sex was better than he'd ever imagined it to be)". It looks obvious to me that he was actually feeling accepting even DURING the sex, he literally says so, he just shut that all down after and went into denial and intended to blame it all on Kureshima after he kicked him off. I actually took in all of the dialogue, not just the end, i addressed the beginning part as well. When he 1st starts speaking and says "who am i kidding? How could i be okay? My asshole is bleeding and sore. He didn't stop no matter how much it hurt", it sounded at first like he was saying he hadn't wanted the sex, but as the chapter went on it became clear that what he was upset about is that he doesn't know how Kureshima feels about him, he says "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me", he is literally saying here that he doesn't understand Kureshima's intentions and he says it scares him most likely because he doesn't want to be played around with. When Kureshima comes in an treats him normally like nothing happened and then even gets a girlfriend later it sends Kureshima into a rage rather than the listlessness he'd been in that Sasaki was trying to talk to him through at the beginning. This is because what he was really upset about wasn't the sex, as evidenced by the end of ch 4, it was that he doesn't understand Kureshima's feelings and when he acts like nothing happened it looks to Oono like Kureshima was just messing with him after all. He literally says this as well, when Kureshima comes over and he yells at him, "so you were just messing with me!", before Kureshima gets angry and tells him "you know why (Kureshima fucked him). The opening dialogue on ch 4 wasn't him saying he didn't want the sex, it was exactly what it says, he is lying to Sasaki about being okay, because he is physically in pain. That's it. No need to connect that to how Oono was feeling during the sex, he's commenting on the present. He's acknowledging that he is actually in pain. Not sure how much you know about anal, but it actually IS very common to bleed during and after the 1st time, and to have bloody shits. you'll for sure be sore. He acknowledges that the sex hurt, as it would, AND he acknowledges that it felt better than he even imagined it would despite the pain. Again, he says Kureshima "didn't stop no matter how much it hurt", but Oono didn't convey that it DID hurt, Kureshima didn't know. Of course he didn't stop. Oono is just a little angry about that, that's it.

You're acknowledging that there was nothing said to indicate he wants it, as well as that there was nothing said to indicate that he DIDN'T want it after saying there has to be something indicating one way or the other and are still classifying it as rape. You just said both parties are responsible for conveying how they feel, that Oono wasn't conveying how he feels and then you go on to say it seems like rape anyways because Kureshima was pushy... Are you saying talking someone into sex is rape? Your statements contradict each other. As far as the lawyer thing, you used it in a derogatory way, you were saying i seem like one of those corrupt lawyers that tries to defend ACTUAL rapists, the ones that were actually givin resistance and verbal rejections and continued anyways. So maybe name calling isn't the right phrasing, insults sounds more accurate. Not sure how I'M childish for getting offended at a clear intentional insult. Victim blaming is a powerful thing.

This is kinda irrelevant, but since you used it as part of your argument... I guess it is. As someone who translates, when an 'sfx' says 'no', it usually means 'no', It's not strictly part of the dialogue, but still, translators don't just come up with words without basis. 'No' is a simple word, why the fuck do translators need to have some kind interpretation for that?

How would that be irrelevant? Whether or not Oono literally screamed no while being penetrated doesn't seem irrelevant. I'd say it's key. You say translators don't comr up with words without basis, but from personal experience i've seen the opposite in group chats posted as pictures in the mangas. It seems to be pretty free in choice. The translators CHOSE to put "schlop, schlop" instead of "splish, splish" or "schlorp, schlorp", etc. If the translators thought it was rape and were wanting to put a rapey SFX there it's GOING to affect how the readers perceive the scene as well. As far as it "being a word", i don't know if there even WAS text there that they translated into "nooo!", do you? I had said a suitable SFX to put there would've been "ahh" as Oono's mouth doesn't even look like he's screaming. Would've been a lot less rapey, more neutral.

Yeah, the text in that SFX isn't even "no"... Look it up. I checked chinese, japanese and korean lettering for "no" and none of the characters looked like what is inside the SFX bubble.

Gosh, you talk a lot. And I was actually referring to my comment as irrelevant...
But what I wanted to say was... translators put 'no' because it LITERALLY says no. It's kinda different from "schlop, schlop" which are actual SFX. You don't really have a definite translation for that, so I agree with you that translators would just come up with something. On the other hand, 'no' is a word, which would have a direct translation from JP to ENG. Also, considering that this is JP... Oono's mouth is just right, because 'iya' would mean 'no'.

I checked the japanese lettering as well, i said that just now, it doesn't say no. Feel free and check as well. Not sure why you're commenting on me talking, of course i'm responding to you. If you want you don't have to continue talking if i'm pissing you off, just say so. I can agree to disagree. I don't consider your comment "irrelevent", talking between 2 people is never irrelevant.

I actually put all that effort into responding to you BECAUSE i care what you have to say and how i should respond. It wasn't irrelevant, imo.

I read through what you said (also, apologies for such a cluttered response earlier lmao it was way longer than I thought It'd be) and again, I just really disagree. I can't seem to see your POV with this topic, sorry. We clearly interpreted the chapters in different ways. Just to clarify, I don't feel like any of us are "correct" or something with our assumptions lmaooo after all, we're reading into a sex scene in a kinda ok-i-guess manga. The manga doesnt really get better or worse after having read the raws lmao. But anyway, you seem to have responded to three of my points and then gone into a long-winded bit about how he feels about the seme. Firstly, the fact that it was SFX doesnt really mean anything. Yeah, sfx is normally pretty pointless since its just sound effects, stuff like schlick and shlorp etc, but i cant think of a time where i've heard NO being used as a sound effect. Probably because no sound sounds like NO and nobody would use it as a sound effect. I saw a comnent from a translator saying that the fact that it's sfx doesnt make it any less relevant, and then both of you (i think?) talked about what the SFX actually says. As anonymous said, it really does say no in the japanese version. In a pretty violent way, too. He appears to shout no in katakana, with an accent on each letter, which is normally used to signify shouting or screaming in these kinds of contexts. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to translate these kinds of things into english, which is probably where the misunderstanding has occured. No, the translators didnt choose to use NO instead of ahh~ or something, it just literally says no, or more accurately, NOOOOOOO!.
Next you go on to talk about how he *might've* felt during the sex based on what he said days later. So in that sense, aren't you also projecting what you want onto him? Its not like i WANT it to be rape, that'd be kinda sick, but i'm also not gonna ignore or deny the fact that he didn't want to have sex with the seme, thus leading to the conclusion that it was rape. I've seen in so many games, manga, novels and drama CD's, situations where the uke loves the seme, even if he doesn't realise it at first, and desires the seme. In response, the seme will (in a lot of cases) force himself onto the uke, while thinking he's right in doing so and the uke actually enjoys and wants the dick. In reality, although the uke might've wanted to sleep with the seme in some cases, if he doesn't want to at that moment in time for whatever reason, then it's rape. You don't seem to have responded to the point I made about the heavy petting so i'll repeat it: Yes, he was ok with being touched and all that, but i (and a lot of other people) don't think he was ok with taking the big ol' D. Either due to his reactions during the scene or after it in chapter 4. The fact that he likes the seme doesn't make his actions any less severe. This shit happens IRL, you could literally apply the same logic to quite a few rape cases. Person likes the perp, perp forces themself on the victim, victim feels confused for ages cause they like the perp and it didnt feel *too* awful, etc etc. But at the end of the day, it was still rape. Have you ever seen like, mind-break doujins? In the start it's almost always something along the lines of "person gets kidnapped or smth, gets raped, starts to enjoy it and then loses their mind because it feels so good". Does the fact that they feel good change the fact that it's rape? No. You could apply that to these rapey yaoi plotlines. Yes, he likes the seme. Yes, he says it felt good later on. But i mean, of course it would, to some degree anyway. His prostate is being stimulated. The guy he likes is doing it. BUT, he didnt ask him to do it, suggest that he does it, or actively even shows that he wants his dick at that moment in time.
And yes, i know its common to bleed after anal. Also pretty common to get stomach aches if someone cums inside, hemorrhoids, etc. My point was that he was still bleeding a DAY after it all happened. That isnt as common. Since, yk, clotting is a thing that stops you from bleeding between a few minutes and an hour after you get injured, depending on the size of the injury. Unless he's been shitting or playing with his asshole every hour since he was raped, itd be pretty weird for him to still be bleeding approx 15~20 hours after it happened. After their first time, people will usually see blood in the morning or a few hours after, but it's normally dried blood from an anal tear. If you're still bleeding almost a day after sex, i'd say it's time to be a little worried about your ass. Although it's not uncommon for the tears to be there for days, it is for you to still be bleeding a day/days later.
Other than that, you just made a long point on how the uke likes the seme and feels worried about what happened. I already acknowledged that the uke likes the seme so i'm not really sure how that arguement fits with what I said, but ok. You do you.

If you don't convey you do or don't want it then it's classed as rape since there is no consent. It seems like rape because the only person that seemed to want anything out of what was going on was Kureshima, hence why he pushed himself on Oono.
You're overthinking the whole lawyer thing, it was meant to be an insult in the context of you fighting a losing case, i'll take it back if the mangaka states that it wasn't rape but otherwise I still believe it was rape.
Also I have giving your points counter arguments and it seems like you just feel victimised that your opinion isn't the majority but going along with what So says your opinion being that it wasn't rape and how you're portraying your views on why it isn't rape makes myself, So and probably other people reading this thread uncomfortable as it seems like you're just trying too hard to justify something that in the majorities opinion is rape.
Like So said, I also am not saying you're a rapist but what you're saying is coming out a lot like what one would say.
Also something So and you mentioned was that he was feeling like he liked it during sex. That doesn't mean he wanted to have sex though. Not gonna lie but sex is actually really enjoyable, especially when you're being stimulated in your private areas. Just because Oono says he liked it at the end of chapter 4 (meaning that yes he liked it during the time Kureshima and Oono had sex) but just because he liked it doesn't mean he wanted to have sex, it just means that the sex did feel good to him despite how rough it was. This then leads you to believe that when he talks about how he was bleeding it's not just because he's saying it was rough sex, he's also thinking "how dare this guy" which is actually what he says later to refer to Kureshima pretending he didn't fuck Oono's ass raw. However from interpretation Oono refering to his ass still bleeding is Oono conveying "how dare this guy" before he even saw Kureshima that day because he didn't want to have sex and Oono being pounded so hard that he's still bleeding really upset Oono not just because 'it hurts' but because Oono didn't want to have sex and we can say he didn't want it that rough due to how he mentioned his ass was still bleeding.

Reference (13 Reasons why with SPOILERS): I'd also like you to watch 13 reasons why and tell me whether Bryce raped Hannah baker or not. Both seasons if you please, but skip to episode 12 of season 1 if you haven't watched it already (or want to skip to the part 41:39 but you'll miss a lot of the tape) because Hannah's situation is a lot like this situation. She didn't say no, she didn't push him off her, she made noises and eventually plummets into shock but she didn't want it (Don't mind the part where she tells the school counsellor just focus on when she tells the tape about Bryce). P.s. If you've watched both season 1 and 2, does the last episode of season 2 have rape in it also? or because the guy didn't show he didn't want it or didn't say no, he wanted it?
If you do think both characters mentioned where raped can you at least represent a bit of both argument to whether it is rape or not in this manga. It's not contradictory it's just stating two sides of the argument. (So you feel like I am at least trying to understand your opinion)

My opinion is still that Oono was raped but as the manga is romanticising rape Kureshima won't be punished as Oono likes Kureshima and therefore will forgive Kureshima for forcing himself on Oono at that time without knowing what Oono wanted.
Oh and when people get stimulated in certain areas (aka their cock, ass, vagina, nipples, etc) they find their bodies unable to move in the way they want them too as their bodies are overcome with pleasure (tying in with Oono saying he liked the sex) so it is harder to resist and how you keep saying Oono was talked into it really does irritate me as Oono's hand was forced into wanking himself off in front of Kureshima because he didn't want to lose him friend (Oono didn't want to be alone again so no he was not talked into it, he was forced to do it otherwise he knew he would've been alone again) from Oono's perspective Kureshima only hung around Oono to know more about Oono's ability of no hands masterbation so of course he felt so much pressure to do it that in theory he was forced. What happened next also isn't talked into either as Oono himself is like 'wait what' when Kureshima describes himself doing those things to Oono.
Like I mentioned in my last comment which you didn't seem acknowledge me putting - or agree with - is that until the 'mangaka' says it is rape or isn't then the manga is 'open to interpretation' so yes it may very well turn out not to be rape but from the majorities opinion it looks a lot like rape.

...Well I typed out a big reply but I can't be asked to rewrite it. Here's the shorter version. (This was meant to be shortened but I got carried away (￣∇￣"))
You and So mentioned about how Oono says he liked the sex. However just because you like sex doesn't mean you wanted sex. News flash sex is actually really good and when stimulated in your private areas your body can also make it very difficult to resist as you're overcome with pleasure but that doesn't mean that you wanted to have sex or you wanted sex to start up to begin with. Furthermore just because he realised a while later that he actually liked the sex doesn't mean he actually wanted to have sex.
He just now knows that he might actually like anal which obviously he's been in denial about because he's believed he was heterosexual his whole life and because his secret 'no hands masturbation' was found out by a curious guy - who he seems to like now - He's revealing to us that he might be gay instead. Although as he has been able to no hands masturbate to females I think he might just be bisexual but to think your whole life that you're straight only to fucking in the ass and it feel good, he'd clearly be in denial about it feeling good because he doesn't want to believe his is gay/bisexual.

A comment I have for the translation, you've done some research i'm guessing into the translation but translators do a damn good job of translating and no offence but they know how to translate things a lot better then someone who's just google translated or looked up several pages of the language (I'm using this as an example as translators have a lot of experience translating compared to you saying you've 'looked it up'/ 'checked the Japanese lettering'). I do understand that maybe this translator put the no in because they presume it's a rape scene however the original languages word will be something similar to the translation they put. So it could've been 'don't' or it could've be 'ahhh~' like you've suggested but the translator will put what they believe is the best/right translation which will be very similar to what the original languages word says.

Reference (13 reasons why SPOILERS)
If you watched this or you watch episode 12 all the way through or from 41:39 can you tell me whether you think Bryce Walker (the guy) raped Hannah Baker (the girl)?
She didn't say no, she didn't resist, she eventually goes into shock and just blanks but is she actually being raped? If you've happened to watch both season the last episode of season 2, does that have a rape scene in it? The guy doesn't say no and he doesn't resist. Just a bit of foul play right?
I'm referencing these two characters as they both seem to be raped from my perspective despite not saying no but they clearly didn't want it. But if you think they weren't raped then okay...
And Oono yes his ass was hurting but it's not normal to cry during sex (I understand it happens to some people but it's rare - keep reading for the none rare reason/ common reasons people cry), it is when the sex is unwanted or hurts but another fact we find out in the beginning of chapter 4 is that Oono tried to kick Kureshima off so he didn't want it anymore (whether he did or didn't to begin with) I presume he didn't, he clearly didn't want sex when he kicked Kureshima, evidently leaving the painful looking bruise on Kureshima.
Oono could've gone into shock because of the situation as it happened so quick and when he came to he kicked Kureshima. We don't know if Kureshima stopped though and knowing how he started I'm pretty sure he would've just pounded into Oono harder - to repay the pain Oono just inflicted on Kureshimsa.

You're also overthinking the whole lawyer thing, it was meant as a insult in the context that you're fighting a losing case, however if the mangaka says it's not a rape scene then I'll take back my claim.
Also another point So makes is that the way you're trying to get across your point of the scene not being rape comes across as if you're saying it from a perspective of a rapist.
Just like So said though, I'm not saying you're a rapist either, it's just the way you're trying to convey your opinion is making it sound like it's something a rapist would say in defence and I think that's why myself and a lot of other people are getting really irritated and uncomfortable with your opinion, especially since you aren't even trying to look at it as if it was rape and at least look from both perspectives like how I was doing in my last comment to show you that I was at least trying to understand your perspective.
My points weren't meant to be contradictory I was just trying to give points for both perspectives and make you feel like I was listening and understanding your points. I even made it a point to say I acknowledge that you believe it isn't rape. However most of your last comment/ comment above is just saying that my points are contradictory and the other half is being upset about me calling you childish (which is name calling) due to how you felt I was naming calling you with lawyer (that's the part I found childish as I thought you where upset by being called a lawyer, no joke (￣∇￣")). But you just proved being childish by implying that I'm the childish one by capitalising 'I'M'. It's true I'm childish but the fact that I bothered to read your comments and acknowledge your argument which you don't seem to have done in my second comment shows otherwise. I'm definitely still childish though hence why's I've commented again. Childish and stubborn because I'd like my opinion to be acknowledged too. You don't have to agree you just have to at least say you understand my point and then contradict it after stating that.

My opinion, still, is that Oono was raped but the only way to know for certain is if the mangaka says it's a rape scene, though the manga or via some form of communication with them. Otherwise the scene is still open to interpretation.

...Well I typed out a big reply but I can't be asked to rewrite it. Here's the shorter version. (This was meant to be shortened but I got carried away (￣∇￣"))
You and So mentioned about how Oono says he liked the sex. However just because you like sex doesn't mean you wanted sex. News flash sex is actually really good and when stimulated in your private areas your body can also make it very difficult to resist as you're overcome with pleasure but that doesn't mean that you wanted to have sex or you wanted sex to start up to begin with. Furthermore just because he realised a while later that he actually liked the sex doesn't mean he actually wanted to have sex.
He just now knows that he might actually like anal which obviously he's been in denial about because he's believed he was heterosexual his whole life and because his secret 'no hands masturbation' was found out by a curious guy - who he seems to like now - He's revealing to us that he might be gay instead. Although as he has been able to no hands masturbate to females I think he might just be bisexual but to think your whole life that you're straight only to fucking in the ass and it feel good, he'd clearly be in denial about it feeling good because he doesn't want to believe his is gay/bisexual.

A comment I have for the translation, you've done some research i'm guessing into the translation but translators do a damn good job of translating and no offence but they know how to translate things a lot better then someone who's just google translated or looked up several pages of the language (I'm using this as an example as translators have a lot of experience translating compared to you saying you've 'looked it up'/ 'checked the Japanese lettering'). I do understand that maybe this translator put the no in because they presume it's a rape scene however the original languages word will be something similar to the translation they put. So it could've been 'don't' or it could've be 'ahhh~' like you've suggested but the translator will put what they believe is the best/right translation which will be very similar to what the original languages word says.

Reference (13 reasons why SPOILERS)
If you watched this or you watch episode 12 all the way through or from 41:39 can you tell me whether you think Bryce Walker (the guy) raped Hannah Baker (the girl)?
She didn't say no, she didn't resist, she eventually goes into shock and just blanks but is she actually being raped? If you've happened to watch both season the last episode of season 2, does that have a rape scene in it? The guy doesn't say no and he doesn't resist. Just a bit of foul play right?
I'm referencing these two characters as they both seem to be raped from my perspective despite not saying no but they clearly didn't want it. But if you think they weren't raped then okay...
And Oono yes his ass was hurting but it's not normal to cry during sex (I understand it happens to some people but it's rare - keep reading for the none rare reason/ common reasons people cry), it is when the sex is unwanted or hurts but another fact we find out in the beginning of chapter 4 is that Oono tried to kick Kureshima off so he didn't want it anymore (whether he did or didn't to begin with) I presume he didn't, he clearly didn't want sex when he kicked Kureshima, evidently leaving the painful looking bruise on Kureshima.
Oono could've gone into shock because of the situation as it happened so quick and when he came to he kicked Kureshima. We don't know if Kureshima stopped though and knowing how he started I'm pretty sure he would've just pounded into Oono harder - to repay the pain Oono just inflicted on Kureshimsa.

You're also overthinking the whole lawyer thing, it was meant as a insult in the context that you're fighting a losing case, however if the mangaka says it's not a rape scene then I'll take back my claim.
Also another point So makes is that the way you're trying to get across your point of the scene not being rape comes across as if you're saying it from a perspective of a rapist.
Just like So said though, I'm not saying you're a rapist either, it's just the way you're trying to convey your opinion is making it sound like it's something a rapist would say in defence and I think that's why myself and a lot of other people are getting really irritated and uncomfortable with your opinion, especially since you aren't even trying to look at it as if it was rape and at least look from both perspectives like how I was doing in my last comment to show you that I was at least trying to understand your perspective.
My points weren't meant to be contradictory I was just trying to give points for both perspectives and make you feel like I was listening and understanding your points. I even made it a point to say I acknowledge that you believe it isn't rape. However most of your last comment/ comment above is just saying that my points are contradictory and the other half is being upset about me calling you childish (which is name calling) due to how you felt I was naming calling you with lawyer (that's the part I found childish as I thought you where upset by being called a lawyer, no joke (￣∇￣")). But you just proved being childish by implying that I'm the childish one by capitalising 'I'M'. It's true I'm childish but the fact that I bothered to read your comments and acknowledge your argument which you don't seem to have done in my second comment shows otherwise. I'm definitely still childish though hence why's I've commented again. Childish and stubborn because I'd like my opinion to be acknowledged too. You don't have to agree you just have to at least say you understand my point and then contradict it after stating that.

My opinion, still, is that Oono was raped but the only way to know for certain is if the mangaka says it's a rape scene, though the manga or via some form of communication with them. Otherwise the scene is still open to interpretation.

Sorry I'm spammed the same reply a few times but it's not coming up when I click on this topic (￣∇￣")

I'm going to type ONE reply to you, it's not your fault, but i've addressed this blatant misinterpretation of my argument enough that it's like go read my other comments. My argument wasn't "it felt good so it wasn't rape", for you to have understood that from what i said you had to have been ignoring bits of what i said. I pointed out that Oono says BOTH that "i yearned to be touched again" (He wanted Kureshima to touch him, it was consensual) and "reality was much better than delusion" (despite him saying it was painful at the beginning of ch 4, he's saying here at the end of ch 4 that it was only at most a half truth, it actually felt really good). He BOTH wanted it AND acknowledges that he was lying about it just being painful. Oono says he "pretended not to notice" and "i intended to blame him", he's saying he was in denial when he was ACTING like the sex ONLY made him upset. It wasn't the sex that upset him, it was the meaning BEHIND the sex, that he's in love with Kureshima. He was just focusing that on the sex and ignoring what was really upsetting him. For great detail into my actual argument, read my comment titled "ch 3 and 4 are about making Oono face his denial -please read it ALL before replying-", this is where i go into dialogue step by step and explain, based on the dialogue, why Oono was saying what he did and Kureshima's position in all of this.

Dude, my replies weren't coming up, had to flip through to topics to find this post and reply to this reply of yours cause it wasn't coming up.
You have your opinion, have it. I'm giving counter arguments and you literally just keep bringing up that Oono says later in the manga that he liked it. Not that he wanted it. He was in denial about liking it but we never actually know if he wanted the sex at the end of chapter 3 when it happens, it's never justified that what happened at the end of chapter 3 was because of his feelings. He just said he liked it, doesn't mean he actually wanted it.
If you bothered to actually read my arguments you could give me some other counter arguments but the fact that you've had to continuously make several posts to try and prove your point isn't going to make people side with you.
I'm personally not convinced at all by your arguments and you keep repeating the same ones when I've made points against them which you don't even acknowledge. Plus the fact that you have to point people to other posts says you're just overthinking this way too much.
Stop spamming your opinion on the topics, you've stated your point enough and as you've seen people are just thinking you're trolling and I am thinking you probably are too. It's not like you're actually reading or going to read anyone else's points thoroughly as you've shown by not addressing any of my points and telling me to look on another post. Yes I could look on that but why make more posts if you wanted others to look at the other one?
Honestly, it seems like you care too much about this because you've been in Kureshima's position. Give yourself some space from this thread and maybe you won't be so annoyed at others testing your opinion. Mute all the comments from this thread and just leave your opinion said and done. I myself won't comment again because the last comment I make is the only thing that needs to be said.
ANYWAYS:
JUST READ THIS COMMENT: If the mangaka says it's a rape scene then it's a rape scene.

1. I HAVEN'T JUST BEEN SAYING "he liked it", I'VE BEEN SAYING HE SAYS HIMSELF THAT HE LIKED ANNNNNDDDD WANTED IT! I JUST WENT OVER THIS IN MY LAST RESPONSE!!! THE ONE YOU'RE RESPONDING TO HERE! HE SAYS "i yearned to be touched again" (he WANTED KURESHIMA TO TOUCH HIM) AND "reality was much better than delusion" (THIIIISSSS IS THE PART WHERE HE SAID IT FELT GOOD, THE OTHER PART WAS HIM SAYING HE WANTED IT)! You're either not reading what i say or not understanding.

2. The mangaka never said it's a rape scene, the rape warning isn't part of the manga, look at the raws... It was a page put there by the translator... You know so little that it's pointless to argue.

If the magaka says it's a rape scene or not via social media or whatever. That's that point. I'm going to leave you alone now so you don't misunderstand again.

I'm sorry, i just noticed this, but i no longer have the energy to continue this. We'll just agree to disagree. I've went over most of what you just said, but in responses to other people and it'd take me forever to type that all back up. if you're interested in an answer to this^ you can check my last like 3 comments and the... Conversations... Underneath them. -mean that in a friendly way, i'm just emotionally/mentally worn out-

Aah...Oono said no. Like, he literally said this two lettered word 'no.'

No he didn't.

That's an SFX, not dialogue. He stayed silent the entire time and then kicked him off after he'd been fucked for a bit.

I looked back, there is actual dialogue where he says no, but not to the sex. On page 27 he says "no, that's not", but here he is just denying that he's was thinking about Kureshima, you have to read pg 26 for context. On page 28 he says no, but if you look, his face is flushed and it's because Kureshima is touching his nipple, in other words he's feeling good, but embarrassed because it's Kureshima. So it was a sex moan. If you think either of these were protests for Kureshima to stop, will you look at them and tell me why?

That is the problem with the word "no" too, it doesn't mean "stop" in EVERY context, its a common thing to say during sex similar to how people says "yes" a lot too. I think the context here made it clear the "no" was a moan? He said it when his nipple was teased. As far as the SFX, i feel like the translator was just looking at the pictures and thought it was rape so they threw a rape warning and a rapey SFX in there.

I think the fact he never outright even consented to it, let alone his body language outright was refusing kureshima, and then he kicked him is enough justification it was rape. Kureshima, whether it was love, lust, or a power move, raped oono and I honestly don’t think that’s debatable

If someone is visibly scared to death of being raped, the requirement of NO is not even a question.
He is totally scared to death when he's being raped. It's clear in the scenes... Many people freeze when they're being raped because they're so scared. That's what has happened to him.

Also Chapter 3 page 29 you can clearly see him shouting No!
And he says that Kureshima scares me.

Maybe that is, what happened, but from Oono's dialogue at the end of ch 4 when he says he wanted Kureshima even before the sex and when he says it actually felt good it made me think otherwise. To be clear, i'm just getting across what i think, it's set for me now. I had suspicions it wasn't rape and ch 4 did it for me, but that won't be the case for everyone. I'm sorry if i offend you? Not trying to.

That is the SFX i mentioned, it's not dialogue, it's a sound effect that the translator puts in there at their will. Like using "schlop, schlop" on ch 3, pg 30 to indicate the sound of Kureshima's dick going in and out. I think the translator saw the pages and thought it was rape so they put in a rape warning and the rapey SFX "noooo!" in that particular page to push their interpretation.

My argument is that he consented emotionally, like he felt awkward about it, but was okay with it to an extent once Kureshima got him horny with the dirty talk. Not sure where people get the idea that consent has to be spoken aloud, that it's a sentence, but it's not the case. Saying it aloud is just the easiest way to verify. If someone takes you to court for rape and they say they "didn't say yes", they'll be asked "well, did you say no/stop or resist and make it known you didn't consent?", if the answer to that question is no then the guy is off free because it's not on him to read your mind. Sex is very nuanced. Consent is an emotion, the sentence "i consent to this" is a means of conveying that emotion. I believe Oono wasn't feeling raped there, but shocked and that he kicked Kureshima because he was confused about Kureshima's intentions behind the sex and factually first time anal hurts. My argument is that he consented wordlessly until his confusion/the pain got him out of the mood and he kicked him off. Oono literally says Kureshima is making him feel horny on ch 3 pg 25 when he says "i'm starting to feel the same as back then".

Oh, and when he says "Kureshima scares me, it comes across as not a literal interpretation, but as a nuanced thought that he meant because Kureshima is a guy who is paying him attention and he doesn't know why. It seemed pretty obvious to me? He says "i don't understand Kureshima, he scares me". Ch 3, pg 30. He's literally saying he doesn't understand why Kureshima is interacting and now even having sex with him and it scares him, this actually goes into what i said in my comment. Oono kicked Kureshima off because he's not sure how Kureshima feels about him. He gets mad at Kureshima in ch 4 when he acts like nothing happened because it makes him think Kureshima has just been messing with him.

Where specifically does his body language say he's being raped? Kureshima never uses physical force, Oono doesn't resist.

He was visibly worried scared, even KICKED kureshima, and was entered with brute force causing bleeding. Kureshima forced into him without even any preparation or trying to even pay attention to Oono’s facial and body expressions. I don’t know why this is even being debated

Okay, I see what you are trying to say, nuanced consent is a thing between people with an already established sexual relationship and know each other’s body language and what they want out of a relationship. Oono bled not because it was his “first time” it was because he was given no or little preparation and was given forced entrance by kureshima who, if he was actually considering Oonos visible feelings of resistance and confusion, (which confusion NOT mean it’s consensual), would have stopped. Kureshima raped oono, and didn’t even give room for Oono to respond to his actions, whether Oono liked it in the afterthough or not, Kureshima raped Oono, because he did not even consider Oonos feelings in the situation.
Like dude, I loved this story, and I want to enjoy it, but I’m not going to frivolously justify rape just to enjoy it. It’s rape, I’m not going to stop you from reading it, but just be aware, this manga romanticizes rape

He was visibly something, not sure what. You're stating it was fear/worry like it's factual, but i think it is more likely just shock at the suddenness. As far as the bleeding, that is common your first time. Pain is common too. You'll for sure be sore. The kick is interesting, because ch 4 implies he let Kureshima fuck him for a little bit, THEN he kicked him off. I think he kicked him off because he wasn't sure about Kureshima's feelings and the sex was painful, as first times are.

You don't know that he wasn't prepared, it doesn't show how long Kureshima was fingering Oono, it just shows him pull his fingers out and it's super wet down there. I'd argue that he DID prepare him. I don't agree that nuanced consent is only between people who know each other already, what about sex apps that lead to spontaneous hotel sex? You think they all ask "do you consent"? There're plenty of scenarios, again, sex is nuanced. As far as Kureshima "not considering his visual expressions", why do you think he started talking dirty to Oono? It was to get him in the mood rather than stressing about it.