This should have a rape tag honestly. The alpha lied and specifically withheld info to coerce the omega into sex which he thought he was agreeing too without the fear of mating. This literally is the same as being HIV + and not telling your status and infecting someone then claiming whoops guess you’re stuck with me.
Didn’t mean to thumbs down, totally agree
Umm were you reading the same manga I just did because the alpha didn't attacked him and the omega gave him consent, Im pretty sure the alpha only bit him to only fuck with him, if not then yeah it would be kinda messed up.
People can revoke consent at any point in dec. before, or during. Secondly even if you agree to sex but are purposely misinformed about your sexual partner to the point that, that had you been given said information you would not have consented this is in fact a type of sexual coercion which is rape. It really scares me that people are not educated enough to know their sexual rights I was fortunate enough to get a great sexual education in school though it lacked lgbtq however I was told exactly what I needed to know, not be taught from movies books and especially manga very very terrible sources of healthy sex. The way people defend rape so much on this sites me wonder if that’s part of the problem with rape apologists besides the clear romanticism that the BL genre has horribly attributed to sexual assault and abuse.
You making it way more extreme than it has to be by comparing it to HIV. He didn't do anything like give him a disease. Like I said before I'm like 90% sure, he knew that he wasn't in heat and just wanted to see him get caught in a lie. Also don't try to educate me on sex just because I disagree with you. Omegaverse sex is entirely different from rl and changes based on the author. Comparing rl sex to this is just stupid. A rape tag is important to not bring past fears or to people who are displeased by it. This isn't something anyone would be triggered by because this cannot happened to anyone in rl. Yeah if he did give the guy HIV then I would agree with you but he didn't. You comparing this to giving someone HIV is reaching. Even as I type this, Im racking my brain to think of a rl comparison, but I cannot.
First he hits the kid then he sleeps with a child who clearly has trauma and was sexually abused for years. How are you swayed to have sex after a child vents to you his miserable life of pain like what sensible adult even does such a thing. I literally have no words for uttterly stupid Haruto is. He’s a grown man who should know better and continues to sink into his desires the fact that he even mentally mentioned that Ren should be used to it even unconsciously really is telling of Haruto knowing fuck all to help this kid. Ren needs therapy not an adult who’s half assed in trying to help Ren and also be his lover, Haruto is making the situation incredibly worse despite any of his efforts. What is with these plots of a victim turning for help and instead of properly seeking help for them, the savior puts a bandaid on the situation and resorts to sex as some ridiculous cure all, I’ve noticef that this also another trope within yaoi-the someone died I helped mentally just by cooking for them and having sex instead of seeking proper therapy approach seen especially with I’m dating my dead sibling’s lover now plot.
Yeah, I totally agree with everything you said. Yaoi tends to down size how big problems actually are and apparently a psychologists don't exist is this world, all psychological problems are fixed with love and sex. Absurd. In this kind of scenario, Haruto is the best option. In real life he's part of the problem.
I completely agree, the whole bed scene made me totally uncomfortable with the story. I started feeling suspicious the minute Haruto went "I don't have a futon for guests" - I immediately thought "Oh surely not, don't just be yaoi about it PLEASE" but lo and behold...
I think it is clear throughout the story that Haruto is complete shit at dealing with Ren's situation, but because it's from Haruto's perspective it feels oddly off-kilter somehow. And you're right, his internal monologue is actually sorta disturbing. I think it's all probably deliberate, so in that sense it's well done. But I'm not surprised at all that Ren left. That poor kid.
I'm going to go re-read Cut now. Two damaged kids together feels far healthier than a damaged kid with an adult who is clueless to the point of making things worse.
God these plots are so fucking problematic. Seriously we have the rape to love, Stockholm to love, abused to love, bullied to love can we just get a plot with mutual love kindness and respect for fuck sake. While I’m not in control of the morals and desires of these mangakas people really have to understand that even while fictional these stories are truly harmful in how they romanticize trauma.
There's tons of mutual,love, kindness & respect plot out there. This simply isn't one of them.
I was going to point that out, there really is a lot of cute mangas out there with "normal" plots. Although more common on shonnen ai, there are yaoi mangas and manhwas without toxic relationships elements
no no don't get me wrong I know there are mangas out there that don't resort to using these toxic tropes but we all know that a majority of them contain these negative elements and have become the norm and standard of this genre. People are reading BL for the first time will read a story like this and I know I certainly did when I began reading at 11yrs and while I'm grateful I know the difference between a consensual respectful relationship and toxicity even while fictional the sad reality is that his same toxicity is already present in our real world lives coupled with the media we consume regularly we become desensitized to even the most blatant forms of abuse and wrongness. After all we live in a world that claims "love hurts" and we teach that our growing children that getting a few slaps here and there means your loved, that a woman/man asked to raped due to their lack of awareness or clothing choice, that the mental health of abuse victims is seconded to concerns of their abusers wellbeing. I could go on and on. I don't mind plots that show stark reality but please these romanticization of it is disgusting and toxic.
Yeah that is very true :c
I should also mention that the best example of a truly realistic and authentic depiction of bullying to love narrative is 'A Starry Sky' while it is not explicit yaoi, the author as done an above and beyond portrayal of trauma affecting a loving relationship between two boys' once toxic relationship. Slight spoiler the two boys don't immediately end up together even after the bully character eventually confesses and realizes his feelings towards his victim. Secondly both character have fully reflective discussions about their individual traumas and feelings acknowledging the elephant in the room and realizing that love doesn't overlook inflicted pain physical or emotional. Despite that when they are finally together it makes their love all the more special because our victim unpacked those bottled feelings of pain in a therapeutic way coupled with the allowance to not have his abuser push and push at his boundaries like so usually happens in these sort of narratives. I cannot begin to express how beautifully done this story is in properly showcasing trauma and abuse and overcoming it with love.
I've never read a starry sky before bc I don't find it interesting but now that u explain the storyline like that I might get into it
Why do they always have doubled ears it always bothers me.
So they can hear better. Cats can hear from 20Hz up to 64.000Hz, while humans can only hear from 20Hz to 20.000Hz. This means with 4 ears (2 human ears + 2 cat ears) he can distinguish sounds better. Ofc this isnt the reason, Im just saying a bunch of crap its probably because they look prettier with 4 ears or something
Damn, that's a good ass explanation, wish I could upvote T-T
Well you learn something new everyday
Realistically shouldn't the landlord have paid? I mean he made the mixup that's entirely his fault.
As much as I’m happy that our munchkin is safe it felt so anticlimactic that our psycho gets nothing but a there you got what you want “my forgiveness” now go away. I mean after everything he’s done it’s so bleh. Granted that’s almost the case for most BL villains they’re never adequately punished for anything they do and just leave in obscurity so that’s their presence was merely a plot device that drove the story and our mains into each other arms and added very little else in terms of things. It’s unfortunately very unsatisfying.
I completely agree with you. I'm a bit disappointed
I agree. I throughougly enjoyed plot and smut of this manhwa so this turnout falls a little short. Unless there is something more going to happen, but I feel as though with him leaving Korea that's the end of our antagonist
Honestly I don’t understand why everyone finds this hot. I feel so uncomfortable how the blond guy is practically forcing the black haired friend to go along with his whims to point of it going past dubious consent. He just keeps pushing and pushing to have sex with the black haired friend and with the usual tsundere excuse it’s the narrative of the blond knows best because he knows what the black haired’s body wants even when he’s repeatedly says he’s uncomfortable. Sex should be enthusiastic consent not this swarmy smile and a few thrusts past no means yes.
Well that’s how screwed Up we are ╮(￣▽￣)╭
And there we go. The fall in love with your rapist plot we all expect and know makes it’s appearance.
it was kind of annoying when there was the suggestion made that he bottom instead to prevent the nose bleeds, Aoba straight up refused and complained at the idea of Mano topping even though Aoba was a virgin and thus wouldn't even know whether he's prefer a sexual position. Really getting annoyed with this rigid placement of uke/seme it's so annoying and inherently misogynistic, taking a receptive role in sex is no demeaning ffs.
Yeah, I do think it would have been nice had Mano tried bottoming and still gotten a nose bleed then as well. It would have shown that they are both fine with either position, as long as they are together. Plus, as you stated, gay couples in real life don't tend to be rigid like that.
I though the same as both of you!
Super cute story and couple, I loved them, but stereotypes and heteronormative sure is repetitive in yaoi
If your really tired of the uke/seme stereotypes you should totally read Neko x Neko ! I just read it the othe day and it was so good. Basically after 3 years of dating the uke wants to try topping and while the Seme isnt up to it at first he gives bottoming a try for the MC. It really is well written, it deals with the physical stress of bottoming, the place in the relationship etc.
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/neko_x_neko/
How about we don't pressure people to do things they're not comfortable with, cool? It's disgusting to suggest people should go out of their comfort-zone with sex when they don't want to, just because "they haven't tried". Cool it with the rapey attitude dude.
& how about we don't empower hets by letting them decide the narrative that we're not allowed to have preferences, just because they've abused it? This is a nicely written, perfectly avarage gay couple. They're not enforcing anything heteronormative, not every gay couple wants to switch. Am i misogynistic now because I'm a gay man that don't want to bottom? Anal isn't a walk on fucking roses, you know. Plenty of guys want nothing to do with having theirs messed with. Sounds real homophobic to me that we aren't allowed to have preferences, because that's literally the only thing this couple did that would have been stereotypical IF she had altered their personality/looks to go with it.
(I'm laughing at the first reply. Do you spend like, any time in our community??? Go on grindr to chat up some guys if you don't have access to gay rl spots and my dude your reality is about to change)
lots of ppl don't have to try things out to know what they like/dislike, so no...
It funny that you say that because even if a person doesn’t want to be a top/bottom/ vers whatever your argument falls flat because not every single gay man out there is having penetrative sex. That’s the beauty of sex straight, gay,lesbian, trans etc. reducing the conversation to hey he doesn’t want to bottom so let’s make his partner do it because whatever reason ( fear, hemroids, pain, internalized homophobia) it doesn’t matter the excuse. As someone who is characterized as a virgin it’s ridiculous to go the route of hey I don’t want something in my butt I have to fuck you insead to lose my virginity. You “lose” your virginity once you have sex of any sort ( oral, handjob, dry humping) this annoying basis of having to fuck something to claim ownership of one’s virginity is a societal conditioning so don’t come on here with some bullshit excuse of why this manga is an accurate enough representation of gay men. He can get a handjob for all I care and he’s now lost his virginity. I never said he has to force himself to bottom but he’s expecting his otherwise straight/ or bi partner to accommodate his expectations. That’s my point. You see theirs an issue of with you toping you make changes and compromise not dismiss any alternative when you don’t even have the experience to make such a call and understanding of whether your partner similarly can’t bottom for whatever reason as well. Plus Grindr is a hookup app fair enough but not everyone is fucking using Grindr as some playground reduced to queer men as all just set to sexual roles and finding a compatible sex partner. This is because of the members who use may use it for that intention but it was not the intention of the app’s creators or all users. ffs their’s options to just be looking for friends or dates not the fuck in your car because neither of you can host an impromptu hookup session granted from what I know of the app they’ve shot themselves in the foot with the introduction of tribes and such categories reinforcing tired stereotypes of sex and physical expectations.
I want to thumb you up but there is no option to do so lol
You do realize that NO ONE in this conversation said ANYTHING about forcing someone (fictional OR real) to do something they were not comfortable with or did not want to do. All we DID say was that we sometimes want more out of our fictional stories than the same old tropes and tripes of worlds where, more often than not, couples are one thing or another. Basically wished the story had not followed the usual oh so clear cut boundaries that so many yaoi manga do, and that it would have been nice (had the author been so inclined to do so) if the manga had given us a couple that did not define themselves solely as uke/seme, truly exploring a different idea than is (as stated before) usually shown in most yaoi. This story had that potential, and had the author OF THIS FICTIONAL STORY had decided that the seme DID decide to give bottoming a try for himself, he would NOT have been doing so against his will. Because that is NOT the type of couple the author made them.
"you make changes and compromise not dismiss any alternative when you don’t even have the experience to make such a call" Duuuuude what did I say about the rapey attitude? Besides, Mano did at no point say he didn't want to have sex or didn't want to bottom, so you're making stuff up now.
So, your entire argument is based on the definition of sex? In this case, the Japanese definition of sex (this is a gay couple in Japan after all). I would love to see a source on this actually! Hit me up with that link (don't worry if it's in japanese!)
I'm just gonna have to assume you're a gay man yourself since you're trying to educate me on gay sex. But you see, in my country, the official definition of sex is when a man penetrates a woman. That's a bit hard, so we have to make our own definitions. For some, sex is any sexual act as you've described, and for some both have to come for it to be sex. And for some, you have to penetrate. As we can't rely on the official definition, it's up to each person what they view as sex. I've known plenty guys who saw themselves as virgins until they had anal, likewise I've known guys who didn't consider themselves virgins after handjobs. I'd love to be educated on how it works in Japan though, as I don't have a clue there.
Wow, that grindr comment really flew right past you, huh...
"Aoba straight up refused and complained at the idea of Mano topping even though Aoba was a virgin and thus wouldn't even know whether he's prefer a sexual position"
" You see theirs an issue of with you toping you make changes and compromise not dismiss any alternative when you don’t even have the experience to make such a call"
Yeahhhhhh I hear you bud, this basically reads "Anyone has every right to turn down anything in sex regardless of experience/any reason". Reads as smooth as butter, don't it?
Again, FICTIONAL STORY, where we are talking about how it would have been nice had the characters BEEN REWRITTEN so that THAT WAS NOT their view. That means that THAT CONVERSATION would NOT have taken place. Geez dude.
Gosh, I must've quoted in my dreams, my bad.
Honestly have no idea how sempai is liked. He has such a horrible personality and treats the guy as a new toy he’s found interest in simply out of curiosity. That blowjob scene really highlighted that, you know how he feels about yet you push him into a sexual position he has no experience with just see if you can get off with a guy and know he’s willing to seek your validation and approval. You haven’t even once tried to get “know him” you’ve just tolerated his presence and indulge in exploiting his feelings when you feel it’s convenient. God the poor kid doesn’t know any better too and this will be panned off as “romantic”. I don’t care if you’re originally straight playing with someone’s feeling no mater the sexuality is wrong.
Gee, thanks for ruining the manga for me. (╬￣皿￣)凸
Ignore it. Just another prepubescent kid with zero experience.
I completely agree with you! This manga is shallow and feels really wrong. I've read too many yaoi just like that with a detestable seme and an overall heteronormative plot. This is just boring, outdated and thankfully very forgettable.
Yeah, he's using the person who likes him as a sex tool now. The uke is happy with this which is not a new thing, because most yaoi are always about sexual feelings anyway. "I love you if I can get hard for you."
So someone asks to suck a dick and they’re the one being “used”. Omg! All those times I initiated sucking a guy I was being used! I did not realize I was actually a victim!
I do wonder why people so intimidated, and threatened by males read yaoi?
Lol the seme was the one who asked him to do it. So your argument/situation whatever can be thrown out of the window.
(￣∇￣")
I wanted to say something about the seme being the initiator too. Glad I saw you already did
╮(￣▽￣)╭
I don't think it's that bad, really. I'm not downsizing what seme is doing, but what I could see he is questioning his sexuality (not a motive, I just get it). It's not like he coarsed the uke to do it, he asked and the uke went for it. I was thinking while reading that at least it's not something forced as we usually see in yaoi. I kinda like how the relationship is the two of them discovering feelings for each other and what it really means a same sex relationship, even on the sexual size. neither one of them has had any experience with men. Both seen willing to it. Also, some people tend to weight the sexual side when falling for someone. I mean, I can understand the both of them and can't see what's so wrong with two teenagers uncovering their feelings for each other.
You're right about the fact that seme didn't try to learn anything about the uke. At a time that both of them are confused like this they should just sit down and talk because the uke barely has any experience and he might (and already) misunderstand things
I don't disagree with you on the idea that a lot of yaois simplify romance to the point of "I'm hard- I love you- I'm gay now", but I doubt that most people reading yaoi give a shit about how realistic stuff is
However that blow job was totally consensual. I get that you could see it as the seme taking advantage of the uke's feelings, but nothing was forced. At the end of the day, the uke is responible for his part, and it was his choice to be a "sex tool" for the seme. Honestly this mindset just degrades his ability to make his own choices, good or bad.
I think you said it best.
Personally, I don't think the seme's personality is horrible -haven't seen anything to make me agree with that. The uke might have fantasized a bit here n there, maybe, but for your crush to actually touch you and "want" you....that's something of dreams usually. There was no force so far -TRUE. When there were plenty of times it could've been used. The curiosity of the seme isn't horrible either. Part of dating or getting to know someone before or while 'hooking up', is the curiosity. Sexual and otherwise. If you don't explore to see if there's a good vibe through hanging out, conversation, intimacy, or similar interests....then how will you connect?
Glad it didn't start out with a straight "Let's F-ck!" vibe, AND like you said, NEITHER guy has/had experience in a same sex relationship at all before. So, relatively fair.
**I'm sticking it out, but I'd like to know more about the seme's supposed controlling or just background context about his ex and their fallout, and the uke's infatuation first sparking.**
Uke as you see, thinks sexual acts as 'reciprocation' of love, and he consented based from this. So I wanna ask you something. For someone who has the wrong concept of love - thinking sex equals to love and agrees to it, do you think it is still valid? I don't mind whatever your answer is, just give me a reason.
Yes, I still think that it is valid. When it comes to sex, all that ultimately matters is whether or not the two partners consent to it. Obviously it can be very damaging if someone goes into a sexual act/relationship having the wrong mindset, and I do understand how hurtful it can be to learn the hard way that sex doesn't equal love. But at the end of the day, it was the uke's choice to do it, and the seme didn't pressure him to make that choice. If the seme had pressured the uke or forced him, then it would be rape, but in this current situation that wasn't the case.
So ultimately yes, it still is valid. The uke was clearly sober, so he had the presence of mind to consent, so it is ok, no matter what feelings he may have
Whoa, your answer is good. But it kind of bother me when you said ' it doesn't matter what feelings he has as long as he consented to it'.
Does it ever occur to you that consent can be manipulated? Just because someone said it is, it doesn't always mean that it is. There's this thing called undue influence, coercion, intimidation and etc. A contract can't be considered valid if these elements exist.
But back to this manga, I think it is still funny to say it's consented — Yaoi always make fun of consent. Sometimes, mocking. But I don't have enough proof to say that the seme is using uke as his sexual relief to cope with stress, even when he looks like the type to resort to that kind of activity when he has problem he can't deal with. Anyway, I think we can agree to disagree. There's no point in furthering this argument. It won't change our mind.
All of this. Also think of it this way. Imagine a young boy or girl who’s dating an older lover and has absolutely no concept of sex and love. Their partner suggests becoming more physicaly intimate despite their partner having no awareness of what they actually mean. Such that when their partner and them have sex the younger believes partaking in sex is a representation of their love more so than just a physical act OR maybe still actual loving making. Then their partner breaks up with them promptly or maybe the young girl becomes pregnant because she is ignorant of the mechanics of sex and their partner leaves because it’s no longer “fun”. We see and hear of these stories often and we are warned about it being a form of emotional manipulation and peer pressure, this is really coercion. Now should we blame our young lover for their ignorance and chalk it up as a learning experience as some have so heartlessly said or a clear case of them being taking advantage of because after all they are still a child with childish expectations of love. This is literally what we have here in this story. A boy who has a crush on another more experienced straight boy who likely has already or regularly learned the difference of sex and love but wants to test the willingness of their partner by asking for demonstrations of love that he deems worthy of piquing his interest. Replace this with a young girl and her very older experienced boyfriend and I’m sure many would easily say the boyfriend is in the wrong and should be avoided.what difference is it if two boys are involved then. Why the double standard?