Shirousagi's Topics (697)

And that almost made me cry (▰˘◡˘▰)

IKR? it was so funny to read those dumb trolls bs XDD

It was honestly incredible how much they were trying to push it- basically saying that bc Chanwoo had been abused in the past, he didn't know what he wanted wasn't capable of making decisions for himself...even though he said that as soon as he was hit he dumped the guy that hit him and we see that he purposely refused to say the safe word just so that MD wouldn't "win."- oh and we see him actively refuse to listen to MD's orders so we knew that he was capable of that.

Maybe it was due to bad writing on the author's part, but despite his circumstances, Chanwoo isn't a completely traumatized or misguided victim who doesn't know any better, he's actually a pretty tough and prideful character, and from what we have seen, he has shown himself to be unfazed a d more than capable of choosing what he wants. Now we finally get to see him allowing himself to understand his own limits and I'm really happy to see that.

same! it drives me crazy how they keep claiming Chan is a fucking baby that can't decide shit! it was sooo dumb, I can't even.....what the hall ╮(￣▽￣)╭
in this case I think the readers are just too young to read this and too naive.

I see all people who tried to talk any sense into you wasted their time.

I agree. A lot are at a really impressionable age where they basically just spit out what they have been hearing without giving the individual situation and the facts alongside it a second thought. This is for mature audiences only, but many of these people are underaged and too immature to be able to handle these themes or even to separate fiction from reality.

We are talking about real life issues and it's disturbing how people justify and make excuses for abusers.

? This is a fictional story and the writer has created Chanwoo as a character that does not respond the way people expect an abuse victim to, and because of this, she establishes that he is sound-minded enough to be able to make his own choices and decide for himself what he wants.

If this was a real life case where the Dom did not listen to his Sub's safe word and physically hurt him out of bounds, I'd agree, but it isn't.

Chanwoo had dumped every abuser thus far immediately after being abused and even got angry at MD for treating him tenderly after it, implying that until the moments leading up to his safeword, any "abuse" was permissible by Chanwoo. The very moment that Chanwoo called out the safeword, MD stopped all play and cradled Chanwoo with no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I'm not defending any real life abusers and if you can't differentiate between the specific story I am talking about along with the facts within that story vs. Outsidw real life cases, I will no longer respond to whatever you have to say.

I will quote because this post explain it nicely:
We all know that BL logic dictates that they get together after this but I really hope they don’t.

What MD did was fucked up and honestly Chanwoo wasn’t in the wrong. He went to ask his Dom for permission to date because they had agreed to keep a strictly professional relationship. He wasn’t planning on dating behind his dom’s back which shows he really respected MD.

But then MD uses the other sub who just betrayed and hurt Chanwoo to hurt Chanwoo even more. I don’t want to believe that Chanwoo just used the safe word out of just jealousy. Sure there was probably some there but he only started crying when MD smiled. In Chanwoo’s eyes MD was enjoying Chanwoo’s misery and was putting so much emotional damage on him of course he was going to break.

To simplify Chanwoo’s tears as just jealousy would be dumbing down this horrific situation MD forced him into. Yes, forced him into. Sure he could have said no, but he just lost his boyfriend who was a traitorous scum and he was about to lost his Dom too if he didn’t go along with this. Also who would want to lose their partner to their betrayer? MD knew that no wasn’t really an option so he happily hurt a Chanwoo for his own self satisfaction. I don’t know too much about the BDSM world, but I’m pretty sure putting your sub through this level of emotional abuse is a big no and no amount of aftercare can really make up for the shit MD just pulled.

But MD absolutely shouldn't create situation/play where sub feels obligated and pressured because of conditions.

Completely agree. Like, since the beginning of season 2 every chapter was living hell. The more Jeannette's dull interior monologues covered chapters and chapters, the more I found the story not worth of my time. Plus I'm still angry as fuck because as Athy is suffering and questioning her father's love, she never once denied Jeannette to visit Claude. I don't remember tho Jeannette doing the same for Athy in LP or when Athy was a fugitive. If I'm being honest, I'm 100% sure that not even Athy wants Jeannette as a sister, despite finding her cute. It is enough to see how she reacts every time they meet, feeling like she is the second choice. I'm here praying the gods that they don't adopt Jeannette at the end because that would be fudging unfair. I mean, Athy doesn't want her as a sister and Claude sees her as less important than furniture. Even if she obtains the Obelian imperial title she will never be part of Athy and Claude special relationship and she will only be an homewrecker third wheel. That's why I hope she goes far away with her father. But the author really likes her so I have the feeling that it will not end the way I want and Athy and Claude's characters will be destroyed to give Jeannette her happy ending

The author really likes her?? : dude she's so absolutely dull and I agree, she makes me want to stop reading this story because I feel like it has become about her and she just isn't worth reading or writing about. If she gets adopted in the end, I'll honestly rage. I used to like her because she was just a cute and sweet character but now I've come to realize that aside from her sugary sweet personality, she's also either incredibly and annoying dense or just plain selfish with how little consideration she has towards Claude and Athy's feelings towards her and their situation.

great comment. i completely agree with you.

Yea maybe he should take a break from BDSM especially if his dom tried to strangle him in their last play. What’s your fucking point? That just bc Chanwoo is struggling with whatever demons torment him, it’s ok for MD to manipulate him and ghost him when rejected even though he said it was ok to continue being fuck buddies?

Oh ok so Chanwoo has clear issues so it's ok to take advantage of them and endanger him. Sorry but MD broke so many rules and the one in real danger is Chanwoo right now. The one who was nearly strangled to death was Chanwoo. MD's actions are both irresponsible and hazardous.

I never once said that. At all.

You're getting upset over something you decided to make up on your own, and I don't really trust that you'll be able to rationally read any response I may have without trying to manipulate my words, so I'll just leave you with that.

The Dom DID have control. BDSM is about limits and reaching utmost of limits. MD reached it and was responsible for the TWO of them to stop.

MD is responsible for stopping when the limit is reached, correct.

How does one decide that limit? A safeword. Which the sub is responsible for saying. That is the sun's responsibility in bdsm and you cannot have a functional bdsm relationship without BOTH dom and sub doing their part.

And in the end, MD was the one to call the safeword because he did reach the limit and stopped it when he realized Chanwoo would rather die than "give in."

Yeah, exactly what I said broken down step by step...and this is not their first time. MD is not playing with a BDSM virgin. So I don't understand why MD has to receive the hate/criticism. People are getting emotional for Chanwoo and blaming MD for it, when MD has been emotional, yes, but is still abiding his duties as a Dom. To me, as long as MD asks for permission and stops when told to, he can't be blamed for what happens to Chanwoo.

I think people forgot that he did talk to Chanwoo properly but Chanwoo dismissed him.

YES!!!!

literally felt this post

he may not be BDSM virgin, but in this specific situation, wherin he used to have issues with his ex beating him... shouldn’t MD take this into consideration before slapping him? before strangling him? before forcing him to makeout with someone?

i think they were both wrong in their own way. md has done ALOT of insensitive things, and at the same time, chanwoo refuses to say the safe word (which i think is a result from his past abusive relationships)

long story short, i think with how they are now, they are just unhealthy and toxic to be together in this kind of bdsm relationship. they definitely have their own problems to solve before going back into these plays

Thought the Sub asked not to meddle into his personal life? Meaning to nullify the conversation they had before. If MD were to consider those then he is not respecting Chanwoo's request.

Like what are you even mixing together? There is a difference with not meddling in someone's romantic relationship and life and endanger someone in BDSM play by their insensitivity. Because there can be real consequences. Serious health one.
Chanwoo right now is in fragile state of mind after being just used and humiliated and MD is taking fully advantage of that.

Guess what. There's a next chapter. Chanwoo does not want help from anyone and will most probably be mentally broken next chapter, for better or worse. Will he realize anything or not? Will keep being stubborn? Will MD beat him up all black and blue just like his boyfriend did? Will he take notice of everything and adjust the play? Will he enjoy and revel in Chanwoo's pain?

BDSM is the only medium the two communicates, at least that's what Chanwoo decided to. So how will MD get through Chanwoo if talking doesn't work?

The problem is MD shouldn't create situation which can hurt his sub. either mentally or physically. But he is just doing that with premeditation.

Not like he was thought of, too.

Precisely. Chanwoo showed everyone that he is more than capable of making his own decisions and denying MD by purposefully disobeying his orders. It was Chanwoo's choice.

yes although md is wrong by making them do that kind of play, people are forgetting that chanwoo isn’t just a baby and he also has his own faults here. he showed that he can make his own decisions, and people are putting ALL the blame on md as if chanwoo didnt have a choice. i mean md deserves the blame, but chanwoo is obviously also flawed in this situation. i just think both md & chan are making wrong decisions here

I agree wholeheartedly. I think neither should be engaging in this type of play because neither can handle it correctly.

But the one who is in real danger is Chanwoo. The one who can get really hurt both mentally and physically is Chanwoo. The one who was abused (at least based on the information in this point in the story) and is rather unstable emotionally and mentally is once again Chanwoo. Also his mistakes: being insesitve about MD's feelings (showing with a new bf etc) and MD's actions... Are on a whole different levels.

All of what you said DOESN'T MATTER. We are talking about BDSM here. Which is AWAY from emotions. Which is meant to be done through control, NOT EMOTIONS.

You can say that MD is hurt however you want. But what he did was to use BDSM against Chanwoo when as AN EXPERIENCED DOM, he should not have.

Bottom line: MD is an experienced DOM, he should have brought his emotions out of BDSM play. He did not. MD knows of Chanwoo's past and his LACK OF EXPERIENCE in BDSM play. The onus on who should have been more responsible, should have seen how this is more than just BDSM play is on MD.

But no, he abused his position. Chanwoo, lacking experience and with a KNOWN background is something MD chose to manipulate. Not something a DOM should have done.

^^^^

^^^^^

MD knows perfectly well that Chanwoo was abused by his ex partners and he was just now rejected and used by another guy and he fully takes advantage of that. How you can use a card: oh once again you were used and rejected and I'm gonna abandon you too if you won't follow my conditions in some super toxic play". How inconsiderate is that. To make him make out and mate with the guy who just used him. It's on a different level especially knowing his past.

And you seriously don't see the power inbalance here and the fragile state after years of abuse Chanwoo is. You literally dismiss it.
MD is experienced Dom in comparison to amator Chanwoo. He should have known better than using manipulations and taking advantage of Chanwoo's weaknesses.

Do you know how BDSM works? It's sexual play and a lifestyle if you want it to be, but it is not real life and it doesn't mean that a Dom somehow has full control of your actions to the point that you can't make your own decisions anymore.

The only possible thing he, as a dom, did to use bdsm against Chanwoo was slapping him. And that's IF that wasn't previously established in their relationship because slapping IS a part of some peoples' fetishes and is allowed in relationships if previously established. No one knows if it was, but MD has made it very clear that Chanwoo has a safe word, and has told him to use it, and has established that if it were to be used, he'd stop immediately. A sub is given that safe word in case emotions or lust gets so far that they can't handle it.

EVERYTHING else was something that Chanwoo could have said no to. He could have decided the situation was too much for him and walked out, and he could have denied the conditions. He had every choice to do so. The blame can not be entirely on MD because Chanwoo had gained experience by this point and he made his own decisions. He was not just starting out and he isn't some kid that doesn't know any better, they'd been doing this for months and Chanwoo wanted it so badly because he'd already looked into it and wanted it. A dom has the control in that kind of sexual relationship, but a person is given a choice in whether or not they want to listen.

Except he didn't "make" him do it. He ordered him to as part of the sexual play and gave him a choice not to do if he didn't want to, except that he'd give him up as his sub- which, by the way, as someone whose feelings had been so eagerly dismissed- he had EVERY right to do. Anyone can choose whatever partner they want, including MD and including Chanwoo, who still decides that he wants MD despite everything else and chooses him over walking out.

We saw that MD was considerate of his past and Chanwoo basically dismissed him, waved off the care that MD had given him by treating his wounds and trying to take care do him, and said he just wanted someone who fit his type. Chanwoo, knowing full well that they weren't on the best terms, still decided to bring this new guy over to him. If you want to talk about how unfair it is to Chanwoo's feelings, you have to consider MD's too.

MD knows perfectly that Chanwo doesn't know his limits and he's problem with using safe word. As experienced dom he either can deal with it or end their relationship. Not take advantage of that. The guy was nearly chocked to death and didn't use it.

No babe you don't create toxic competition which doesn't have to do anything with BDSM play. You have a conversation as normal, adult human being and consider all options and what will work for you. Not this paranoia.

Chanwoo has been doing this for months at this point, he's no longer much of an amateur and he knows full well he has a safe word and can walk out at any time. He isn't controlled by MD just 'cause he's a dom in sexual play. There's a disconnection there, the dominance doesn't stay there even in real life outside of sexual play unless you want it to. Chanwoo isn't some fragile little woman who's been abused for years, he's a prideful and energetic guy who knows he's weak for cute faces and admits to just wanting someone his type and accidentally falling into poor relationships. He bounces out of them and then goes back in. That's not "fragile" and he's not being forced into anything that he's not able to get out of.

'He could have decided'

WAKE UP. Look at MD's face. Do you really think he GAVE A CHOICE? Or did he know that it wasn't really a choice for someone like Chanwoo?

'They've been doing it for months.'

And? Did MD teach Chanwoo properly what BDSM is? Did he introduce him to another sub to teach him that HE HAS TO SAY THE SAFEWORD for his own safety?

Did the more experienced MD not see that Chanwoo did not say the SAFEWORD when he WAS SUPPOSED TO, simply because he wants to fight back? And realise how Chanwoo is COMPLETELY INEXPERIENCED as a sub? That should have been a red flag to MD, he should have stopped the play and made Chanwoo realise how as a sub he should have said the safeword. BUT HE DID NOT.

Md literally sees how Chanwoo is dangerous as an inexperienced sub but does nothing.

Seriously I'm so disgusted with this sentence I have no words "Chanwoo isn't some fragile little woman who's been abused for years, he's a prideful and energetic guy who knows he's weak for cute faces and admits to just wanting someone his type and accidentally falling into poor relationships".
You completely dismiss abuse and don't understand how it affects the psyche. Him getting in another and another and another toxic relationship is good example of that. Him not saying safe word whil being strangled to death is another beautiful example of that
FrAgIlE , lIyTlE woman... Seriously it's you pov on abuse victims. Yikes

We are talking with person who use such disgusting arguments "Chanwoo isn't some fragile little woman who's been abused for years, he's a prideful and energetic guy who knows he's weak for cute faces and admits to just wanting someone his type and accidentally falling into poor relationships".
Firstly they dismiss the impact of abuse. And that line about little, fragile woman. Yikes

You know even a 6'4" man can be abused. Not only physically but especially mentally. Even by his 5'5" female partner.

Yes, actually, he did. And we can see that he has been a fully responsible dom up until this point. He reminded Chanwoo of the safe word, and in the last chapter, kept yelling at him to use it because he'd stop the very second that Chanwoo did. But Chanwoo CHOSE not to and it went so far that even MD was hurt by it. MD didn't do nothing, he was very obviously upset and Chanwoo was more unfazed by it than MD was, and MD didn't call for Chanwoo for weeks because of how far it all went. Also? You act as though Chanwoo doesn't have the internet and everything else at his hand and can see what a proper BDSM relationship should look like? He was interested in BDSM beforehand and had rejected it with others because they were creepy and made him uncomfortable and he had no problem making the choice to walk away from that because he is more than capable of doing so. You CAN'T somehow blame all of this on MD just because he has more experience, because we've seen that they'd been practicing fully properly until this point and even now, MD gave him a way out. Nust because you know the answer someone will have doesn't mean that the question asked wasn't valid and that you didn't give them a choice. Chanwoo could have said no and could have walked out.
If you like coffee and your best friend knows that so they ask if you want some knowing you'll likely say yes, that doesn't mean that them asking meant nothing and that doesn't mean that you are obligated to drink it just because they asked. You could say no and they won't bring you the coffee, just like you could say yes like they expect and can drink it. The logic that just because MD knew the likely answer that he somehow forced Chanwoo into it doesn't make sense.

You still don't he shouldn't create such toxic and manipulative petty competition in the first place, knowing perfectly that Chanwoo won't refuse because he was just rejected and he won't want to lose another thing and he has problems in general with limits and saying no. AND HE FULLY TAKES advantage of that. Jesus

Please use paragraphs.

He literally told about the safeword to MOCK. Are you ok? How's that the same as telling him for safety?

The fact that chanwoo CHOSE not to when he should have TELLS YOU that he's not experienced and MD should have done something.

Stop bringing other facts in. Oh MD was upset, oh chanwoo is upset.

I give ZERO sh*ts about that. The only thing I care about is how MD used that feelings to take advantage of Chanwoo. How MD is irresponsible and emotionally manipulative as a Dom.

I DON'T CARE WHAT CHANWOO DID. MD can cry and whine about it all I care.

I CARE ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF AN EXPERIENCED DOM that MD totally DISREGARD for his emotions.

How are you comparing coffee with emotional manipulation and taking advantage of an ABUSIVE past? Are you ok?

Seriously we are waiting out time. You make such a solid points and they compare abuse to coffe.

What a horribly childish comparison

Wasting*

I'm sorry that I offended you in that aspect, I wasn't trying to say that somehow all abuse victims are small females or something. That was my bad. You are 100% correct in that a 45 year old 6'4 man can be mentally abused by a tiny 5'1 wife and an abuse victim can be literally anyone. My only point in saying that was that unfortunately, often times, people will take advantage of small females that they frame as delicate because they know that often times, they cannot fight back.

Chanwoo is, again, not in that position. You just try to paint him to be some helpless abuse victim, but he's not. He makes poor decisions, but when confronted about it and even told by someone healthier that he'd be treated like a proper human being, he waves it off because what's still more important to him is someone who fits his physical type. His readiness to accept someone who he thought was his perfect physical type and somehow had his ideal personality shows that he isn't the typical abuse victim with a torn psyche, who 1. Needs time to be able to process each relationship (not bounce, unfazed, from person to person without hesitating to drop them like chanwoo), and 2. Usually, because they're so used to being abused, actually WON'T accept this kind of seemingly perfect situation so easily with open arms and without reservation because the trauma holds them back from believing they are worthy of it. Chanwoo doesn't go through any internal conflict and readily accepts the good as it comes.

It's a simple metaphor to explain a more complicated situation because clearly you aren't getting it in more complicated terms.

Drinking tea (or coffee) is actually an effective and commonly used metaphor to explain consent and rape to people who don't full understand how important it is. It isn't making light of any situation, it's used as an explanation tool.
If you offer someone coffee or tea and they say no, you don't force them to drink it. If they say yes and they are clearly happy to have it and are comfortable with it, then you pour them some and can enjoy it together.
If they are not fully comfortable, you don't pour them tea, but you can leave the pot on the table and they can make the choice for themselves if they want it or not, but you shouldn't give it to them and force them to drink it.

Tgey are still of course, consciously able to choose whether or not they will say yes or no to it, and if the tea pourer has made it entirely clear that it is THEIR choice to say yes or no, than that is still their choice, not the person who served it.

This comment sent me lmfaooo

Oh and also- to you who keeps saying that everyone knows nothing about bdsm- what do YOU know?

I participate in BDSM, am in communities for it, know others who do, and I can tell you right now, even when I was just starting out at an age younger than Chanwoo in this with even less sexual experience than he has, a dom does NOT have every single ounce of power and responsibility you seem to place on them. A dom's responsibility is to have control, sure, but a sub's responsibility is to be able to control themselves and listen to themselves enough to understand their own limits and then VOICE them to their dom. That responsibility relies on the sub, NOT the dom.

Which means BOTH MD and Chanwoo ignored their responsibilities, even though MD made it clear that Chanwoo needed to use his safeword, but if the sub doesn't, a dom can't be expected to always read their mind and decide for them, because that isn't their responsibility. That means, it is on BOTH of them. Not just MD.

You are comparing apples and oranges showing lack of understanding of people who have been abused and continue to go to abusive relationship. Your coffee and tea explanation is for LITERALLY people who are asleep.

You keep giving coffee to someone who you know MAY DIE from coffee but LACKED THE KNOWLEDGE that they MAY DIE FROM IT.

THAT'S the correct comparison. Your metaphor LACKED any UNDERSTANDING of past experiences.

Coffee and tea analogy is for rape for people who are sleeping and do not take into account of anything else which is BLACK AND WHITE.

The difference is NOW THE PERSON IS AWAKE BUT LACKED THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE COFFEE MAY KILL THEM and the only one who knows IS MD.

You're using a blanket all statement that do not take into account experiences is RIDICULOUSLY IMMATURE of you. Similar to what amorim themselves did.

USE YOUR BRAIN. You're not taking into account difference in experience. Chanwoo SIMPLY TRUSTING MD, the way he simply trusts his abusive boyfriends. Once again, to you and THE OTHER IDIOTS. YOUR EXPERIENCES ARE NOT UNIVERSAL.

You refusing to eat food on the ground compared to a starving man having no choice but to eat the food ladled with sh*t and bugs IS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

USE YOUR BRAIN.

Your continued use of childish comparison, childish use of comparing ONE person's experience to ALL shows how lacking of maturity, how unworldly you are.

The world is full of different people with different experiences and when you use that experience against them. YOU ARE FULL OF SH*T and that's what MD is. So you can continue to cry about it. But I'm really done with your childish comparisons.

No. I know that you are wrong here in that somehow Chanwoo lacked knowledge because Chanwoo literally says something like, "he could have killed me."
And once again in his own stubbornness, DECIDED NOT TO SAY ANYTHING DESPITE KNOWING THAT.
MD decided for him because it took a toll on him, and Chanwoo still tried to play it out as if he was unfazed, but you can't turn around and say Chanwoo didn't know what he was doing, because it was because Chanwoo knew what he was doing that he was doing it. He wanted to spite MD even if it was at the cost of his safety, but that wasn't MD's decision.

You are comparing apples and oranges showing lack of understanding of people who have been abused and continue to go to abusive relationship.

You're making repeat the same things over and over simply because you don't want to take Chanwoo's past into account and that DISGUSTS me. So I'm truly and well done with you

No. That's not just my experience, it is the literal standardized rule of the safe practice of bdsm. The exact same rule you are pulling the "DOMS NEED TO HAVE CONTROL" thing from. Each side is given a responsibility, it takes two to tango, and each side needs to be able to uphold their responsibility in order for it to be safe.

And you seem to think that every abuse victim's psyche is somehow in the same state and that every abuse victim seems to have the same mentality and response to everything; you're calling them fragile and implying that they don't actually know what they're doing or how to choose for themselves. THAT is patronizing and downright hypocritical for someone who just said you can't use blanket terms or think that one applies to all.

Literally tho. On my thread people were all like "MD knows that chungwoo has a problem using his safe word and that he can't tell the difference between being abused and bdsm" Then my question is literally why are they even doing this. It can't be safe if the safeword is meaningless. They should have just never even approached each other.

Lmao sorry if it seemed immature, but it genuinely is a common way to explain consent

Yes I also participated in high school health class. "Don't force someone to drink tea" was shown literally every year

Tbh. If they think that Chanwoo is so pitiful and incapable of making these kinds of decisions for himself, then they're basically saying he shouldn't be allowed to participate in bdsm bc his past will get in the way and he'll always be a victim. There is nothing MD could do about him not using his safeword when he even commanded him to use it (you know, bc clearly chanwoo is so brainwashed that he'll listen to anything md says according to these people) and then Chanwoo still refused to out of spite.

Lel then I'm glad you know, bc clearly some people on here haven't even gotten that far enough along in highschool to know how a metaphor works.

MD’s mistakes can really hurt someone else though. If not physically, definitely mentally.

Oh for sure, I agree with you. Such a shame - the art is gorgeous but the story is so fucking lame

I can actually agree with you on this- in most cases, yes, this would cause distrust and trauma and conflict. In a more realistic situation, Chanwoo's response wouldn't be impossible, but it would be highly unlikely that he'd be able to be ready to jump back into it the way he does- on both sides, actually, because it looked like MD was really drained and hurt by it all during that chapter but suddenly now he has no problem turning it into a game.


BUT the poor writing does mean that in the story, Chanwoo ISN'T experiencing these things, and he isn't acting based upon the trauma and feelings this could have caused. What the author has clearly made his motivation out to be is stubbornness and pride, and he is making conscious poor choices through those.

Now, if the author could actually create that level of emotional conflict within the characters, I'd probably entirely take back my statement because Chanwoo wouldn't be acting on his own and he'd probably be way more hurt. But the reality is that this isn't the case, and both MD and Chanwoo neglected their responsibilites with nothing more than shallow pettiness and spite to show for it.

You're absolutely right. They could. And if they did, my comment would be entirely different. But whether it's due to poor writing or just Chanwoo's personality type and way of thinking, my point is that it didn't, and it's clear that Chanwoo is making these choices consciously and out of spite and stubbornness.

I agree that as readers, we should be wise enough to recognize and understand that these things shouldn't be used as cheap plot devices, and we should never confuse these actions as healthy for a real life relationship.

BUT I also don't think that we should fill in the blanks to make up for her cheap writing and create emotions and depth that are clearly not there, and then react towards the fake depth we've added to them.

Someone angrily said that Chanwoo was struggling with his inner demons due to his past and I'm wondering where in the story she could have pulled that from, because it's apparent in the writing that that does not exist.

No, Chanwoo is not making these decisions out of spite. He just wants to keep the dom/sub relationship. That’s it. But MD can’t deal bc he got romantically rejected. Man, who would have thought MD was such a loser lol He definitely had no problem discarding and ghosting his past subs but the moment one of them is like ‘hmm let’s just stay professional for our cam show’, he loses his shit.

He chose to not use his safeword out of spite for the situation despite knowing he could be in actual danger, and refused orders from his dom to say the words that would free him. That's what I'm referring to him doing out of spite. Then, he chooses not to give up the dom/sub relationship even after all of that.

A dom/sub relationship requires both the consent and cooperation if a dom and of a sub, if the dom doesn't want to, then the sub should accept that and vice versa.

Also- if a person is hurt because of heartbreak and doesn't want to continue to have sexual relations with someone else, that's perfectly valid. Any person can choose who they want to have sex with, and it's not childish to be hurt by romantic rejection. That can happen to anyone at any age. He had never gotten romantically interested in any previous sub and could drop them easily but unexpectedly grew attached to Chanwoo so now everything isn't so easy, he's never dealt with that before.

MD shouldn't have gotten so emotional and he was 100% in the wrong to push it that far, but Chanwoo was in the wrong to also violate the rules and refuse to give his safeword. That was his decision. My point was that they were both not making the right choices, but each DID have a choice.

Even with your logic gymnastics (lol), this doesn’t mean Chanwoo is doing anything out of spite. He seriously only wants the dom/dub relationship. That’s it. He thinks that if he says yes to everything MD says and endures the plays longer, he can still stick around as a sub. Also... Why would he want to get into a relationship when each one he’s had ends up with him getting abused? Kuro, tbh the more you write the less you make sense - I’m not sure what your point is anymore. If it’s to justify MD’s sketch behavior as a dom, then nah I can’t agree with you no matter what you say.

That is away from my topic and from what everyone is commenting about. They aren't talking about the author(who I agree has absolutely neglected so many vital emotional conflicts), they are talking about the characters themselves and the nonexistent (in the story) trauma and pain and consequences that have occurred, and then refusing to see the reality of the story- that is, that it IS nonexistent.


Now, if you want to talk about the author and think we should be talking about WHY it is nonexistent instead, I absolutely agree. I love this story, but the amount of pain and anguish and trauma that the scene should have caused was completely washed over and condensed into a short period of under-the-blanket sulking and solved with a simple apology and a promise for a date.
That was a very cheap move, and unfortunately, it happens way too often in any kind of story. In real life, that kind of a move (from MD or Alex) can do permanent damage on one's psyche, trust, and the relationship as a whole, and a person may not be able to handle being touched by that person in weeks or ever again, depending on the severity and the nature of the relationship itself. I do wish we got to see that, and I wish they could have worked things out in a more realistic way and time span.

he literally said that the only reason he didn't say the safeword was because he didn't want MD to "Win"

Spite means a desire to hurt, annoy, or offend someone. What MD is doing now to Chanwoo is out of spite. Chanwoo holding out and wanting to win is stubbornness with a dash of dumbassery.

I'm not justifying MD's behavior as a dom, just the emotions he had as a person because he keeps getting called childish for reacting like any normal human being in terms of what je felt. But as a dom, like I said flat out, he was entirely in the wrong.

My point is and has been from the very start of this topic that they BOTH were wrong as an argument to the idea that Chanwoo did nothing to be in his situation and was 100% a victim. No matter what reason Chanwoo had to do what he did, he made the decision ON HIS OWN to do it.

He violated the rules of bdsm, just as MD did, by not saying the safeword as was his own responsibility and continued to prolong the danger he was in (because while MD was screwing up BIG TIME, he made it clear he would stop in Chanwoo said the word).

And he also didn't use it after the slap and manipulation, nor did he choose to leave when given the choice.

Thus, both messed up, and Chanwoo isn't the fragile, helpless victim people are painting him to be.

I do think that wanting to "win" in the case of the choking chapter when he knew that MD was irritated, butthurt, and angry was pretty spiteful, but if we disagree on that that's okay.

So then yes, it is out if stubbornness.

Chanwoo is literally a victim of domestic violence. He just got callously used by someone he was attracted to - mentally super unstable. He feels like the only way he can keep on playing with MD is to say yes to everything he asks him to do. Like wtf are you even talking about?

ugh use your brain cells. If English is not your first language I get it, but if it is you have no excuse. Spite is a really strong word. Chanwoo is not acting out of spite - if he was, he wouldn’t care if he was a sub or not. Bro is not interested in MD romantically to try to hurt him that way.

He's a victim of domestic violence to all of his ex-boyfriends. Then he dumps them when he gets hit. He states it himself.
I'm not denying he is a victim in those relationships.

I'm strictly talking about his and MD's relationship- in which case, he has continuously made bad choices just as MD has, and is also choosing on his own to stay for the play rather than walk away from these people who are in no way forcing him to stay, given that they even told him up front that he did not have to stay.

If he had said the safeword and MD didn't stop, if MD made it clear to him that he never had a choice and that MD would do what he wanted with Chanwoo no matter what, then yes, I'd say Chanwoo was a victim and only MD was in the wrong, but that isn't the case.

If MD wants him to say the safeword then he shouldn't even been doing the play in the first place.
You are trying to blame this whole shitshow on Chanwoo and then feebly adding that MD is not perfect when you started getting rebuttals to your wordy, aimless messages. It's exhausting talking to you bc you are so dense.

Kudos to you for being so respectful throughout the entire thread, and acknowledging the faults and mistakes of both sides despite some people insulting and trashtalking you. :) Also to the people siding on Chanwoo and actually tried to understand your points.

Heh, thank you
I guess I didn't do a very good job at illustrating my point in the end, though

well said post (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ good job! too much there are too many trolls that love to victimize Chan with no good reason attacking people for their opinion.

too bad there is too many* fix

Bitch same (;´༎Д༎`)

I'm about to throw hands