Anoni Grrl's Topics (169)

D) I tell him that if he calls Feilong here and lets him in on the fun, I'll tell him where Aki is. And in the meantime I'll probably fetch a video camera.

So you wouldn't throw yourself on the grenade and offer your body as a distraction to Asami?

I would let Asami in only if he agreed to a threesome ... *smirk* (only in your pretend world of course ...)

D Takaba out the window with his rope. Cue music , Sexy voice, lighting to set the mood you need a real partner someone who knows how to treat a man like you . As I strip and tie him to my bed. the look alike says" I admire strong people who go after what they want". that is in this make believe world, ' cough'.

That would work. You could hide Aki and then point at the open window when Asami comes so Asami thinks Aki is gone. Then you could comfort Aki using the Yoai logic you described. Aki is so grateful for your attentions. :)

Totally. My imaginary world works on yoai logic, albeit light yoai logic with at least some feeling and personal attraction to make it work--no Yuri abuse, Sakazaki harassment or shouta. Of course, once I ask the question, you can take it to your world and do whatever you like.

The last two anons were me--I forgot to sign in.

I doubt he'd want it even if I did. :D

Sounds interesting!

But for me Asami is just THE incarnation of a sexy, evil gangster boss ... ヾ(☆▽☆) he can't be anything else ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ

In terms on Akihito, oh boy - I really feel like Mitarai and Asami are correct in saying that he is really not suited to his criminal photography job. He's still a little immature in the way he needlessly pus himself in danger to get the scoop (and the rush) that comes from what he does. I'm sure that wouldn't change no matter the AU lol and I really think both Asami and Akihito live for the thrill and excitement and maybe in a way that comes partly from their jobs - which is why they keep at it despite the constant barrage of shite from people after Akihito's ass. (Can't really blame them, it is a fantastic bottom...)

But if either of them gave it up and did something less dangerous, that manga would be as dull as RL (￣∇￣")

That's cool too. Would it help if I made him a lead agent to invades privacy without warrants and beats up informants and suspects? That's got to be as evil as a crime lord, right?

There is that. :)

Yeah, he'd still have to have dark underside. More like lawful on the surface but deadly vigilante underneath?

I know that trope's been done to death, but I still like it.

Hmm... in that situation... I don't think either of them would give up there job for the reason of not being a target or protecting the other. They would only do a job they really love in the first place, so they wouldn't stop for any reason, but I think they would do everything to stop being a hindrance for each other resp. protect the other one :P they would maybe train or (worst case scenario) maybe go hide for some time or so, but neber stop their job or run away from their problems by e.g. chsnging their identities and go to another country ^^

I tend to agree. I think they would find a way for both to keep being who they are. :)

Like Batman? :)

Asami is a wolf. Wolves do as they do--unless they are distracted by a fluffy bunny with a really nice ass).

Does Asami love his "job"? I don't get that sense. That he is driven to do it by some compulsion that has never been made clear, yes. But love? No. Akihito may love his job but he sucks at it.

Asami is dedicated to something--whether it is his job or some other thing that he does his job for (e.g. a clan or some kind of long game), I do not know. But somethings has been driving Asami all long.

Right, we don't know why he is dedicated but I don't see love, not in the terms being discussed here, like an overwhelming passion that drives a true vocation. That's what I think of when someone talks about loving a job so much they would not give it up for a person they love. That's not what Asami's drive looks like.

Our jobs are a part of who we are--especially if we dedicated a large part of our life to them. Asami picked his job for some reason. I could see making a sacrifice if your loved one had to leave the country for some reason and you chose to give it all up and go with him or her, or if the lover got terminal cancer and you wanted to spend the remaining focused on him other. If your job is just a way to pay the rent, then that is one thing. However, giving up your chosen career is a sacrifice and it should not be taken lightly. I would question any relationship that asked you to change who you are.

Thinking about it, if I am really honest, personally I'd give up my job in a heartbeat if I had another way to pay the bills--but I am not at Asami's level.

Maybe love was the wrong word, but he is dedicated to it. I don't believe anyone could bring Asami to do sth he doesn't want to :P

For one thing, Asami doesn't need to worry about paying the bills at this point. He could buy his own country. Again, I don't see love for the job. I don't see it as his vocation. But what we do have is Word of God that he has risked his life for his subordinates and would die for them without question. So he values the lives of others above his own life and hence, his work, it's not a stretch to believe that he would value love for another above his work.

Dedication is different than love. Many people are dedicated to jobs that they cheerfully walk away from when it's time.

And the idea that quitting is something he doesn't want to do is not something we absolutely know to be true.

I also never said that I know from any source that he wouldn't stop his job, it's more like a qut feeling ;)

Maybe what he values is the group and loyalties people have to each other. Maybe he enjoys the long game in his cool Asami way. I think true leadership of any kind is a vocation. If being president can be a calling, so can being president of a company or clan with underground business.

Asami is a leader. It may not matter what he leads so much as how he leads. The "calling" may be to lead--meaning that in time he would be in charge of whatever group he started off in. So in that sense, it doesn't matter if he is a criminal or a cop--so long as he is in charge.

This is true--but then I guess the next question is what makes it time? A better job? Retirement when you are old? Maybe something like that would be compelling. But leaving it for "love" would only make sense if the lover had a real imminent and extreme need for you to leave (e.g. he's dying and only has 3 months to live). Otherwise it seems more like "love" is asking you to be something other than what you are, and that doesn't sound like love to me.

My gut feeling is also that if Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so. :)

A question for any one in favor of a person leaving a job for love: Should Aki leave his job for love of Asami? Aki being less of a target would make Asami's life easier. Asami is a lot more important to his organization than Aki is to the publication Aki works for, and Asami makes more money. Aki isn't even really good at what he does, for all he is brave and lucky. Should Aki prove his love for Asami by becoming the dedicated house wife of the scary day dream?

The thing is, Asami might be happier, but Aki won't be. Rather than Aki sacrificing the job he loves for the man he loves (and then being bored and unhappy), Asami can sacrifice a little peace of mind for Aki's happiness.

I agree. Once more, I don't think Asami wants a passive, obedient lover.

Does Aki want a passive, neutered Asami or does Aki love Asami even when Asami is "evil"?

You're confusing why I used the word love. I was responding to the statement that Asami "loved" his job. Not that he would leave his job for love.

The second is far more likely than the first, given what we've seen. Though I think calling Asami passive and neutered just because he is no longer involved in criminal activities is a little ridiculous. Unless everything that makes Asami Asami flows from his criminal work and his criminal work only.

He's thirty-five. From what we know from volume two about him building his empire, his power is still fairly new. He may not yet feel secure enough to quit. But it's silly to suggest that just because a man at thirty-five isn't ready to retire doesn't mean he won't change his mind and feel differently in fifteen years.

In 15 years? Sure maybe. But that would be moving on for his own reasons. It's quitting now "for love" that seems off to me.

You keep backpedaling on your own arguments. You said "My gut feeling is also that if Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so." Now you're saying "In 15 years? Sure maybe." So which is it? Either he would have done it or he never will or maybe he will. Let's leave love out of it. Let's leave Aki out of it. Does your gut tell you that Asami will die with his boots on or take the money and run at some point--this week, next week, fifteen years, twenty?

Because you seem to want to insist Asami would never retire if the question of retiring for someone else comes up. But then when the suggestion of retiring at all comes up, then you're okay with it. So is there no middle ground for your image of Asami? He is either completely devoted to his work to the point of being blind and deaf to any possible desires of his lover, and therefore would never consider retiring ever. Or he'll retire one day...I can't even finish that because I'm having trouble following your line of thought here.

Asami doesn't have to be a criminal, but he is a wolf. That is to say, if Asami were a law enforcement agent, he'd be the one who ignored rules about warrants and had his men beat up informants an suspects because that's how he gets things done. If Asami were an elected official, he'd be the one who had a secret extra-constitutional government agency achieving his countries (governments) goals, and who takes out his competition, and he would not care overly much for any "rights" he violated. Asami goes after what he wants, and erases anyone who gets in his way. That's who he is.

Why shouldn't Asami be a criminal? He was a criminal when Aki met him, and Aki was drawn to the darkness (just as Asami is drawn to Aki's light). Trying to change the darkness into light ignores the fact that darkness serves a purpose. Having Asami giving up being a criminal to run for office or play some other leadership role as a wolf might make sense. Having Asami give it up "for love" would change who Asami is--and make him a flufffy puppy who has been to vet and hopefully won't piddle on the carpet anymore.

I don't think the wolf is "evil" for being a wolf. I think wolves play a role in the ecosystem, for all farmers and sheep don't appreciate that role and call it cruel. I think it's sad when some wild wolves are captured and become so used to their cages they die in them, even once the door is open and they can go back out and hunt in a new environment.

If Aki really loves Asami, Aki will accept Asami for who Asami is, even the criminal predictor aspects of Asami. Asami seems to accept Aki."Love" doesn't try to change everything about the one who is "loved".

My *gut feeling* is that if Asami wanted to quit *for his own reasons* he would have done so by now. Asami does not seem to have a problem with being a criminal or doing what is necessary to achieve his goals. In 15 years, Asami's goals and desires may change and he may want to move on to another project--or not. I don't know. Which statement do I stand behind? Both. They do not conflict. I am not saying Asami would *never* retire. I am saying there is no reason for him to retire *now*, and that my impression is that if he had a problem with being a criminal, he would not be a criminal.

From my perspective, it seems as if you are interpreting my comments as extreme and absolute statements, but that is not what I am actually writing. To me, Asami seems devoted to his work for some reason. Whatever that reason is, it seems important enough for Asami to risk his life and devote almost all of his time to it. I don't know what that reason may be, but it seems like it is important to him. I didn't make any predictions about how Asami would die--that was you. I am talking about what seems important right now based on what we know about Asami (which s incomplete). I see evidence that he is devoted to something and that there is no information to indicate he has a reason to give it up at this time. This is my impression of Asami, not some absolute pronouncement of some pretended "objective" superhuman truth. This is my "gut feeling".

Accordingly, I admit that it is possible that Asami may want to retire or change jobs at some point in the future . Asami may also be bitten by a vampire in the future and start drinking blood, but I see nothing in the manga right now to indicate Asami wants to do that. Anything is possible though. I don't know what will happen next, so I can't rule that out.

It's the "desires of his lover" part of your statement that bothers me, not the possibly of Asami retiring someday for his own reasons. First, I think changing who you are for a lover is always a betrayal of self. Second, I think Aki is actually drawn to Asami's darkness and has recently come to accept Asami for who Asami is. What's the point of Aki coming to terms with loving Asami if we then see Aki change everything about Asami that made Asami dark? And if Asami should be "light" for his lover's desires, shouldn't Aki be "dark" for Asami's? Why should anybody change? What was the point of the last story arc? Aki doesn't need to change to be with Asami, and Asami doesn't need to change to be with Aki.

In another thread I also made a sort of "better the devil you know" argument for keeping Asami in power because I think if you look at the greatest benefit for the most people for the most amount of time (or at least for the current situation as we know it), Asami competently keeps order in a way others can predict and work with, and that there is no other character that I know of who would do a better job. This is why I shoot down suggested replacements as less desirable than Asami's leadership. Of course things can and will change in the future. Of course Asami is neither perfect nor immortal. I am saying he does a competent job and is an effective leader, and people benefit from that. When you look at the big picture, it is better to keep him where he is--at least until something changes that would make it more beneficial to more people for Asami to leave.

It seems to me as if you are allowing only two options: (1) Asami "loves" his job as a true "calling", could not give it up for any reason ever, and will "die in his boots" or (2) Asami's dedication means very little to him and can be easily left behind at the drop of a hat or in some misguided attempt to please a lover (and leaving *for Aki* was posed in the OP, so it's part of the context for this discussion--and context always matters). I don't think it is that black or white. I think we have to look at it based on what we know *right now* about whether Asami seems like he wants to give up his job *at this time*.

I'm not interpreting what you say as absolute. What you say IS absolute. "If Asami wanted to quit for his own reasons, he would have already done so" is a clear absolute statement. That says you do not believe Asami would quit, period.

As for Asami dying, one day he WILL. He's not immortal. So it's a valid point of conjecture. Either he dies in the saddle or he retires and dies in a recliner somewhere.

But as far as what we see now, what do we see? We see a man who goes to work every day. We see a workaholic. Do we see him taking particular joy in it? Actually, we've seen him more often distressed or bothered by his work. It weighs on him. Given what we see on the page regarding Asami's feelings for his work, I see a man who is doing what he has to do, not what he necessarily is delighted to be doing and would be lessened by no longer doing.

I don't know why you keep trying to argue Aki with me when I've never argued for or against his influence. I only mentioned "the desires of his lover" because YOU keep bringing Aki into it. But again, your statements there are a jumble of backpedaling. Aki changed for Asami but Aki shouldn't have to change for Asami? Which is it?

But you know what? People do change. That's the whole point of stories. Nobody wants to read a story where the main characters are completely static. We want to read about people who grow through what they experience in the plot. That's the inner journey. As you say, "What was the point of the last arc?" (But then you muddy it up by saying Aki shouldn't even change. You're trying to have it both ways again.) And in a romance--which this is--people do change for lovers. Did Elizabeth Bennett change for Mr. Darcy and vice versa? Yes, otherwise, they would have gone their separate ways, thinking badly of each other. Not changing for the person you love is just something people say because they've been in a bad relationship.

And on the "better the devil you know" thing, again, you have no way of knowing who the other devils are, so that's kind of moot. And I doubt the argument would carry any weight with Asami.

I don't think we have enough information either way to determine whether Asami wants to give up his job or whether he is so passionately devoted to it, he never will. And you were the one who set the original parameters of the argument, even though you insist you didn't.

Not to be picky, but the question I asked in this thread was whether Asami should quit his job *for Aki*. I am specifically interested in the question of whether Asami should give up what he is doing in the name of "love". I even made up an AU with another less "bad" job so we could look at whether Asami should give it up *for Aki*. This is meant to parallel the dilemma Aki created in his head about either being a photojournalist or Asami's lover. Should either have to chose? My personal answer is no.

As to the question of how committed Asaminis to his job (which is not the one I raised), I think there is evidence that right now it is important to him for some reason, even it it may be a means to some other end. There is evidence that Asami works very hard and risks his own life in order to reach his goals, and no evidence at all that Asami wants to quit. When someone appears to that dedicated, leaving the job is not something to be taken lightly. There may be reasons for him to move on in the future (I never mentioned any absolutes such as "never"), but if he ever gives it up "for love", I personally will be a little disappointed. It's not my story, so it won't matter, but in my head I will think less of Asami.

You cut off the "my gut feeling is " qualifier. The "my gut feeling" part is important. It means that the statement that follows is my impression rather than some absolute declaration. Also, you took it out of the context of discussing whether Asami should quit *now* for the love of Aki. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to write, "My gut feeling is that if Asami were guilt-ridden for being a big bad criminal and he really hated what he does, Asami would just quit." I appolguize for giving you room to misinterpret it. Please accept my revision.

I keep bring Aki into it, because that is the context of this entire thread. I specifically asked about Asami leaving his job *for Aki*. That's the whole point in the first place.

As for people changing, you have a point, but the reason *why* people change is important. As we grow, we are still ourselves at the core. For the record, I don't think Elizabeth and Darcy changed for each other--I think that each came to understand the other better and that they got to really know each other and learned to accept each other for who they are. I suppose that's a question of interpretation. To me, charterer growth should be organic and for the reasons of the individual character, not to please another character, especially not a lover. It should mean developing who you are and maturing, not completely changing who you are and giving up your goals and dreams for someone else.

Although the "Better the devil you know (than the devil you don't)" argument is a topic of another thread, the premise behind that saying is that someone you know is better than unknown possibilities, even if the known person is the devil. The fact that other options are not known does not make the point mute--it rather supports the idea that a known is better than an unknown. An unknown is a risk, whereas you know how to deal with a known. That's the whole point.

Asami is his "job". He lives it. his gun is his hand, a part of him. what ever he does he will do fully. He was written to be atop down alpha meant to lead a pack. his Job is to lead. There are some people who no matter, where life drops them will wind up on top and Asami is one of those people. You can love him or hate him but it is the truth. Asami may alter things to make life easier for Takaba. If he can't protect him what is the point of his power? Takaba gets into trouble bec, of going outside of the safety net Asami provides him. Not staying where it is safe. It's not that he does not have the power to protect, Takaba fights against it.(On some level part of a courting dance?). On one level RL it has to end. hopefully, both on an boat fishing. They both like it to much. Asami as E Ness would work well. that's just my opin. though.

Hey RB. I like what you said about Aki fighting Asami's protection as part of the courting dance. That makes sense to me.

Haha - if Asami turned his back on the underworld, he wouldn't be content to be a normal business man; he'd probably end up something like Tokyo’s version of Bruce Wayne. Philanthropist playboy by day, fights crime by night... He's already got the boy wonder, the car, the devoted man servant and the brooding down pat.

More seriously - Asami reasonable and not cruel? Not sure... I don't know if we're supposed to discount that his first act was to have Akihito beaten up and his next to kidnap, drug and sadistically rape him, given Yamane Ayano has said if she'd planned VF to be a series, it wouldn't have happened that way. But as it stands, Asami has been repeatedly shown to be a sadist and a rapist. Are we meant to think he routinely raped those who went against him as punishment before meeting Akihito? I think it's implied (when I see a boy as weak and cheeky as you, I can't help but want to torture him) but not clear.

There seems to be two people at present who could take over from him. One is Kuroda - the corrupt DA who knows Asami's business inside out. He's there in the wings with links to government and has been shown to be prepared to use his power to threaten people. Is he completely loyal to Asami, or is he working against him? Asami is quite clear that Kuroda’s loyalty is bought (they will obey my orders as long as they think they will gain something in return). The other is Mikhail, who with his kidnapping of Sudou, is starting to gather people around him who have a grudge against Asami and know his business. Either of those two could conceivably step into a power vacuum left by Asami’s absence.

Yeah, I also question just how kind and reasonable Asami is. Even if we discount volume one, we still have Asami's own word on the subject:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c030.1/36/

"I crush those who stand in my way and retaliate against those who seek vengeance. That is my way. And I do whatever it takes to get hold of what I desire."

Bottom line, he's a criminal who does whatever he has to do to obtain his objective.

But he is also a brilliant businessman with an elite education. I would like to believe that he thought out all possible scenarios against the day he would either "retire" or heaven forbid, be killed or otherwise forced out. I'm certain a man with his intellectual capabilities would have had the foresight to plan against such scenarios as you suggest and would not walk away and leave an underworld war in his wake.

Unless he truly is cold-hearted enough not to care. He could sell off everything and buy an island in the South Pacific and live out his life far away from any chaos his departure might cause.

I think Asami was personally attracted to Aki, and that he does not necessary rape everyone who gets in his way. Beat them up, sure. But are you familiar with crime organizations? Beating people up is a way to get things done. Beating people up for no reason or because you re having a bad day is cruel.

My question is, seeing as there are going to be organizations where people are going to be beat up, do you want it to be for a reason or on a whim?

Reasonable is not always the same as "kind". I am saying that Asami is competent and reasonable, and that makes life better for those affected by his organization. Sure, he does what he needs to go gain his objective--but only to gain his objective. He doesn't do it to be cruel. There is a reason why he does what he does--you get something he wants. Knowing this, people can anticipate how to act if they do not want to be erased.

Just as people could avoid being erased by not getting in Asami's way, Aki could have avoided taking photos of Asami's business (or avoided gettign caught). Of course Asami's mean beat Aki up. That's what they do to people who interfere with there business. If they randomly grabbed people and beat them up because they didn't like the look of them, I'd be worried. Asami shows his S side to Aki--especially at the beginning, but that is personal and sexual. Compare that to how Asami treats the child who ran into him with the ice cream cone.

I think in terms of how Asami runs his organization, he is a reasonable criminal and a reasonable business man (and there isn't much difference between the two). If you stay out of his way or cooperate with him when necessary, you'll be fine. You can't say that about every crime lord. once more, Asami is competent and in control. That keeps things running smoothly as a rule. If you can't stop crime, you may as well have it controlled by someone reasonable. I am not saying Asami is "good" only that he could be a lot worse.

So what if Asami arranges a successor? Is there less "dark" in the word, or is Asami merely turning over his duty to someone else? I still think it would be hard to fill Asami's shoes, and I don't think the others would necessarily do as good a job of running things. Does it make Asami "good" to let others do the dirty work and trust they don't do worse than he would? Or would it merely please Aki and make his personal life better at the expense of the greater good?

I don't think Asami is "good", but he isn't all "bad' either. He is more neutral, and you can trust him to act with self interest. Some things he does are bad, and some good--like most people he is both.

Some additional thoughts (sorry).

I do not see Kuroda as a corrupt prosecutor. I see him as a practical prosecutor in a corrupt system. I think Kuroda has a *personal* loyalty to Asami, and that the government works with Asami unofficially because the government finds Asami useful. I don't think Kuruda is a criminal for profit, so much as he is trying to keep things running smoothly. I don't think he would take over.

Have you ever read about the Mitsui clan? They were merchants and business leaders with underworld ties. They worked with the government but could be brutal (e.g. using prisoners of war for slave labor or concealing opium in cigarette to get people hooked on drugs). Now I am not saying the powerful are "good" and that atrocities should not be stopped, but the government certainly found this group useful in its time.

I see Asami as being a more modern and slightly less powerful leader of something like the Mitsui. Kuroda is no less a part of government because his relationship with Asami. It just reflects the power balance and mutual assistance between government and leading organizations at this time.

As for Mikhail taking over. I think he would be a lot worse than Asami, even assuming Japanese people would accept a Russian leader (which may not be as easy as you think). Mikhail is more pointlessly cruel and less competent than Asami.

First, Mikhail's cruelty is capricious and for his own entertainment instead of simply a means to an end. Mikhail's actions on the boat show he likes to stir up trouble that does not necessarily bring him profit or something he wants. The way Mikhail goaded Yuri and then left Yuri with Aki was not to stop Aki from doing something Mikhail didn't want Aki to do and it brought Mikhail no profit. It did not improve Mikhail's bargaining position. Mikhail set that up being fully aware of what a crazy, violent prick Yuri is, and Mikhail did it just to be a SOB. Furthermore, Mikhail goaded Asami, pushing him till Asami was already fingering his gun before Asam talked to Aki. Mikhail knowing contributed to putting Assami into a state of mind where Assami shot the messenger. All of these acts reveal a personality that like drama for the sake of drama, and the type of person who is cruel for the "lulz".

Secondly, Mikhail is not as competent as Asami, as seen by the fact that Mikhail had been trying to get that deed for a long time, but Asami just breezed in and got it. Even when Mihkail thought he would swoop in and steal the prize, Mikhail bungled it. As a result of Mikhail's incompetence, people died for nothing and no one even profited.

I still think Asami would cause more harm than good by stepping down.

You are making some fairly large assumptions, though. First, you are assuming that Asami pretty much controls all illegal activity in Tokyo, if not Japan in general, something we have no evidence of. Yes, we know that some people tremble at Asami's name, but that doesn't mean he's the only player on the board. And really, a two-bit procurer like Sakazaki isn't the best bellwether of a man's influence. But you're assuming that if Asami is removed in any capacity, his loss would create chaos. Since the manga doesn't give us enough information on the underworld of the manga universe, this is a leap. We don't know how bad things would get, if there would really be disastrous repercussions if Asami was out of the picture.

The other big assumption is that Asami is as good as it gets, that there isn't someone else out there just as capable, powerful and reasonable. There must be more players in this universe than the known candidates (Kuroda, Mikhail, Feilong.) Just because he or she hasn't been part of the story line doesn't mean he or she doesn't exist.

So it doesn't follow that the loss of Asami automatically means things will get worse. They could, in fact, get better. There simply is too much we don't know.

It's also an assumption that Asami's aim is for things to be less dark. Fairly dealing with his criminal employees and even other criminals doesn't equal less dark. He is still a criminal. And it also supposes that anyone who would succeed him would be worse. You are assuming that there is no greater or more reasonable criminal in Japan than Asami and that no one else would ever be able to equal him. Don't forget, the man has made some serious blunders in his time.

I'm not sure when Aki and his desires came into it. I didn't mention it. But Aki or no Aki, the fact is that at some point, Asami will be gone. He isn't immortal. Whether he removes himself voluntarily, is killed, or dies of a heart attack, his tenure will come to an end at some point, that is why I think he would be smart enough to have thought it through, unless he is callous enough not to care what he leaves behind. But you assure us he is a better man than that.

Whoa. Mikhail is responsible for Asami shooting that guy? Poor Asami has so little control over his own impulses that he could be manipulated by incompetent Mikhail like that? And this is the guy keeping all of Tokyo's criminal element in line? Is it Mikhail's fault they were even on that boat? No, that was Asami's fault, which he acknowledges. So in fact, it was as a result of Asami's incompetence that he was at war with Feilong at all.

I don't mean to imply that Asami's aim is to make things less "dark". I don't think "good' or "bad" is absolute, nor that "legal" is necessarily "good." I am saying that Asami's aim is to obtain his objective, and therefor he can be trusted to act in self interest. When I say Asami is reasonable, I mean he is utilitarian, logical and predictable. We can all understand why Asami does what he does, and this allows us to predict his behavior. It's orderly (if not lawful). While his goal may not be to serve the greater good, the greater good may be inadvertently served. It certainly isn't helped simply by having someone else do what Asami does now.

While we do not know that Asami's group is the most powerful, it has been implied that he is a major player, and whenever a major player falls, there is a power vacuum that leads to competition. As for whether of not someone else could do a better job--it is possible--but none of the characters I have seem so far would fit the bill. Kuroda is a prosecutor, not a business man or group leader. Mikhail and Fei are foreigners, and I don't think the Japanese ranks would accept either one. Fei still acts too much on his own emotions, as evidenced by his obsession with Asami, Mikhail in particular would be much worse for the people he leads for the reasons I explained in an earlier post: he is pointlessly cruel and incompetent.

Of course Asami will die or retire someday. But that doesn't mean he should wuss out in the meantime. I am not assuring you that Asami is a "better man". What I am saying is he is the best *leader* I have seen in this manga so far. A good leader and a good man are not the same thing. Asami is effective, competent and logical. The fact that this may make life easier on people his organization affects is not his goal--but it is important from a big picture perspective. I don't see another leader in the manga who would do a better job.

Even Asami has emotions and Mikhail was purposefully pushing Asami's buttons at a time when Asami was particularly vulnerable. My point is not that Asami does things for a reason, whereas Mikhail does things just to f*ck with people.

Doh--how did the word "not" get in there?

Anyway, I can't stop myself from replying to this part (nothing personal--I like talking about this manga): "No, that was Asami's fault, which he acknowledges. So in fact, it was as a result of Asami's incompetence that he was at war with Feilong at all."

Asami's original goal was to have Fei in charge of Baishe--which Asami achieved.

Asami's next goal was to get the deed to barter in exchange for Aki--which Asami achieved.

Asami's final goal in that story was to get Aki back--which Asami achieved.

Asami had no problem with the boat--that was Mikhail's assertion and I for one do not buy it. I think Asami could have handled any acts by Fei's men just fine. Look at how he handled them the first time Asami rescued Aki from Fei.

Asami did not cause Mikhail to be on the boat. How could that be Asami's "fault"?

Mikhail's goal was to get the deed--which he failed to do.

Mikhail's other goal was to get Fei--which Mikhail failed to do.

Putting the issue of goading aside, if Mikhail had not kidnapped Aki, Asami would not have shot the messenger. While that doesn't mean Asami isn't responsible for his actions, it does mean Mikhail is also responsible. Asami's actions were entirely predictable, and Mikhail knew it--even played with it. The fact is Mikhail's man might not have died if Mikhail had been less of a prick, both with Yuri and Asami. Regardless, the major point is Mikhail failed to achieve his goal, so the death was for nothing from Mikhail's perspective.

After being goaded, Asami killed in anger over Aki's voice. Asami's goal was to punish the people who did that to Aki. Asami succeed. It wasn't pointless for Asami--just for Mikhail. Furthermore, Asami got Aki back, so from Asami's perspective it served a purpose.

So in summary, Asami 3/3, Mikhail 0/2 (or -1 if you count losing one of his men).

Every point here is canceled out by the fact that while in theory, Asami achieved his original goal, he did it at great expense, creating a monster in Feilong and setting up a war between them. That is all on Asami and nothing else in your string of goals would even have been necessary if Asami hadn't bungled that so badly. So yes, Asami is responsible for the fact that he, Feilong and his men and Aki are on the boat, which attracted Mikhail's attention. So if we want to use your logic, then Asami is responsible for Mikhail taunting him because Mikhail wouldn't have even been there if Asami hadn't set this whole thing in motion seven years previously. Your turn.

And Mikhail did not kidnap Aki. Feilong's turncoats did. Why? Because they didn't like the way Feilong was handling the situation because Feilong was too emotionally involved in his feelings about Asami. Which again, is Asami's fault. So things were quite different in this scenario than they were the first time Asami rescued Aki from Fei. With some of Fei's men turned rogue, Asami might not have had it as easy as you suppose.

Asami got Aki back but not whole, not until Aki had been traumatized, roughed up and shot. And Aki wouldn't even have been in that situation if, once again, Asami hadn't made an enemy of Feilong. Asami also lost a valuable mole that had been in place for nearly seven years. So he got Aki back but at a cost.

So if Asami is three for three, it's on blunders. That whole arc was Asami one step behind, desperately trying to clean up messes that he was largely responsible for setting in motion.

Mikhail wanted the deed for a reason, not just to fuck with someone. He understood it's monetary value. And I think we'll find in the current arc that Mikhail has solid reasons for what he's up to. Just because he's more laid back about what he's doing doesn't mean he doesn't have clear goals.

But this is what you are saying, that Asami is some kind of benevolent bad guy and that his loss can only mean things will get worse and not better.

I don't even know what you mean by "wuss out." You mean just by walking away? How is that wussing out? That would actually be a huge triumph. "I got mine and now I'm going to go enjoy it."

If Asami vacated his position (for whatever reason), the void would instantly fill. There'd likely be a power struggle, but eventually someone new would come out on top who would be able to maintain a satisfactory balance. No one profits when the underworld falls into chaos. Factions will come to a temporary truce just to avoid this.

I think it's very possible it could be Fei Long (since he has the resources and manpower to pull it off), but it would be necessary for him to put a Japanese proxy in place and rule it from the shadows.

At this point, I don't think Mikhail could pull off such a thing. He's attempted twice now to take over Bai She and failed... though it could be he wasn't putting in a earnest effort either time. He could be just poking around, looking for weakness. We really don't know enough about him yet.

I always wonder what type of motivation led Asami to be in the position he is in now. There is no record of him until he attended university. Is it as simple as a desire for money and power? He already has more money than he knows what to do with. He could back off his more dangerous ventures without losing anything significant. Why keep taking risks and sticking his neck out? An egotisical urge for power? For someone with the power he does have, he seems to be nonchalant about it. He also keeps a somewhat low profile.

The thing that has my curiosity fired up is when Kuroda alluded to "the higher-ups" ( or "the superiors" in the translation here). It could be that Asami might also be a proxy for someone else more powerful.

1) I don't think Asami created a "monster" in Fei. I think Fei is a promising if immature leader of a difficult group, and he has always lived in a kill or be killed world. I think Fei has a way to go to be up to Asami's level, as evidences by how Fei let his obsession with Asami cloud his judgement. Fei is responsible for who Fei is, and who Fei becomes. Neither Asami or Fei are perfect, but both are usually good at what they do.

2) Fei's issues with Asami are more personal in nature, and the organizations have more of a cold war than all out blood in the streets conflict on a regular basis. This can be changed. To a point, Fei is still useful in his position to Asami and the people Asami works with. More importantly, there is still a good chance of reaching an accord with Fei in the future.

3). Fei is responsible for Fei's feelings and Fei's actions. Men have to learn how to take rejection better, even if they run a powerful criminal gang. Fei taking Aki was personal. It was not related to Asami's business or organizational leadership. Asami didn't "make" Fei decide to treat Asami as an enemy. Asami saved Fei's life, but then failed to stay and love Fei. Fei could have just let it go, but he did that spoiled man thing.You might see Fei's butt-hurt as Asami's mess--but it inspired Fei to rise up in ranks and it served a purpose. If it was a "mess" not to control Fei's heartache, then it was a personal mess, not a business mess.

4). Asami still achieves his goals. Your arguments about costs do not change the goals. The cost to Aki or even the Yoh were not the point. The goal was to get Aki back and Asami got Aki back. Paying a cost to achieve a goal makes sense. Paying a cost because you felt like being an asshole and then failing at your goal is just stupid.

5) The turncoats kidnapped Aki for Mikhail. It was Mikhail's plan to achieve a goal. Mikhail failed. The other points you mentioned just show why it wouldn't be good for Fei to take over for Asami.

6) Aki was originally taken by Fei because Aki wouldn't stay in the damn hotel room or even let things go after Aki got his friends back. Aki got Aki kidnapped, and Aki knew what Fei was like when Aki made those choices. That's on Aki--and Aki is Asami's Achilles heel.

The fact the Asami does not control everyone or everything does not make Asami at fault. Being wounded isn't a blunder. It is human. Not reciprocating someone's unrealistic obsession isn't a blunder. It is human. Not chaining your stupid-ass uke to a wall isn't a blunder--it's failure to service part of the fan base--wait, I mean it's human.

Asami wasn't always one step behind reacting. Asami had a plan in motion that Aki messed up. Then Aki got Aki kidnapped, and Asami had to bail Aki out. Asami made a plan to get Fei's deed to exchange for Aki. Notice that Asami did not stumble stupidly after Aki immediately without a plan. Asami assessed the information, made a plan, and carried it out. Asami was one step ahead when he got the deed, and the Fei had to react. Though Mikhail was able to complicate things, Asami formed a plan on the spot and outmaneuvered Mikhail. Just because other players have their turn doesn't mean Asami isn't playing the game with a strategy.

I am not saying Asami is some kind of criminal Marty Stu who never fails and cannot be challenged. I just mean that Asami is a good leader who accomplishes his goals, even if there is a cost. Aki's choice of career and personality would have put Aki in the middle of one mess or another even without Asami, but Asami always saves Aki. Asami is good at what he does and wins in the end.

Name one goal Mikhail had that Mikhail achieved.

I am not sure where you get "benevolent" from. I am saying he is competent, and that he is logical and not cruel for the hell of it. When Asami is cruel, it's for a good reason: to achieve a goal. The fact that his loss would make the situation worse for many people does mean Asami is a sparkling shiny criminal with a heart of gold who poops rainbows. It is a utilitarian assessment of the big picture. I am saying that at least in the short term, losing Asami as a leader would hurt many people and that I don't see another character in the manga that would do as good a job as Asami does.

I think Asami would be wussing out if he walked away because Asami seems to enjoy the leadership role more than the material goods that come with it. If by " I got mine" you mean Aki, well I guess. But no one can live entirely for their lover, and giving up all you want and all you have worked for seems like a loss, even if you do it to enjoy more time with your lover. Maybe when Asami is 65 or so and wants to retire, it would make sense. Right now, it just seems like giving up for no reason.

What unnecessary drama have to do with the deed? Why did Mikhail goad Yuri about Aki? What was the point of setting up Yuri to attack Aki (which is exactly what Mikhail did). Where is the benefit to Mikhail in that?

And why did Mikhail goad Asami so much? that wasn't necessary for his plan. There was not benefit in it. Mikhail just likes stirring up shit.

Look at Mikhail's final scene on the boat. He was disappointing the show was over, and that he wouldn't be entertained by watching Fei kill. I'm surprised Mikhail didn't have any popcorn on him. What did Mikhail hope to gain at that point? Mikhail was just being a shit for the hell of it.

"The thing that has my curiosity fired up is when Kuroda alluded to "the higher-ups" ( or "the superiors" in the translation here). It could be that Asami might also be a proxy for someone else more powerful."

I noticed that too. :) Of course, all I have is speculation, but you know I am hoping for a big reveal involving the higher ups and Koruda's connection to Asami *Crosses fingers and chants "half-brother in a powerful clan" in case Sensei hears me*. Then again, the higher ups could be Kuruda's higher ups in the government. I am sure it will be good.

This is all deflection from the real subject. We're talking about Asami, not Mikhail. I certainly never forwarded Mikhail as a successor to Asami, so I have no investment in defending Mikhail. It doesn't matter what Mikhail did/is/wants/thinks. Mikhail could eat a baby and it wouldn't change the fact of who and what Asami is and the mistakes he has made. One character's mistakes do not cancel out another's.

That was merely to respond to the assertion that Mikhail had a reason for his cruel actions. That goes to the point that I think Mikhail is a worse leader than Asami, and therefore would not be a good replacement. That doesn't "cancel out" anything Asami does.

Asami is responsible for Asami's errors (and not other people's actions). Even though he is not perfect, he is still a very good leader who gets results To me, it's not about "good" and "bad" (because everyone is both). It's about what is effective and what works best for the most people most of the time.

Asami absolutely created a monster in Feilong. Everything Fei did from the point Tou shot him until those last moments on the boat was driven by feelings of revenge against Asami. Asami himself acknowledges this, even if you don't.

Of course, Fei's feelings are personal. That doesn't stop them from influencing the way he operates. It would be nice if everyone behaved like a grownup but that doesn't always happen. Asami picked the wrong guy to toy with and by so doing, indirectly destablized an entire criminal organization, which came back to bite him in the form of Fei's turncoats, who took Aki.

Asami wanted to play kingmaker with Baishe. He didn't have to stick his nose in there, but he did and he screwed it up. If he'd done it right, he would have had an ally in Feilong and none of this would have happened.

Costs absolutely matter. Yoh was a resource that was spent not in pursuit of a goal but to clean up a mess. That was a loss, not a calculated expenditure to achieve a planned goal. And to talk about what happened to Aki in terms of costs is pretty cold.

Aki did not leave the hotel room. He was left there, drugged by Asami--another thing Asami acknowledges was a mistake. That's why Aki was still there when Fei's men broke in and beat him into telling them where Asami had gone. That's on Asami.

Yes, it was stupid for Aki to go after Fei in the garage but Fei took him because of Asami.

Asami was a step behind numerous times. He failed to guess that Fei would tail Chou to Tokyo. Failed to realize it was a mistake to leave Aki behind, alone and drugged in the hotel. Went alone without backup into the situation with Fei holding Aki at the garage. Took a long time to catch up to a quickly changing situation on the boat. That was taken out of his hands and he could really only react as it played out. The point there being that he is not always in control. He is not always able to keep up with events in his world. Even to where the story stands now. He knew Sudou was diddling him and he let it go until Sudou nearly killed Aki. And he left Sudou alive to where he might become a pawn to be used by Mikhail. He's not perfect. He makes mistakes. A lot of them.

Again, whether or not Mikhail achieved any goals doesn't change the mistakes Asami made. And it is by no means a given that Aki's job as an investigative photographer would have seen him kidnapped and raped by Chinese mobsters.

How does Asami seem to enjoy his role? We know he's a workaholic but I don't see him taking immense pleasure from being a crime lord. Not to the point where he would prefer to die in the saddle. So to say it is wussing out because it might be leaving behind something he enjoys is pure speculation. We simply do not get enough of Asami's point of view to make that leap.

And no, I do not mean Aki by "I got mine." I never brought Aki into this. You did. I mean money. He could walk away with plenty. And I never said he could or should walk away now. At some point, yes. And my original point was that if he is as smart as you and his character sheet claim he is, he would have made a plan against that day.

I'm not interested in defending Mikhail as I never put him forward as a possible successor, so he isn't part of my argument. However, I do not agree that he deliberately set up Yuri to attack Aki. And that isn't a defense of him or his behavior. I think he was idly twitting Yuri because that's just who he is. He invited Yuri to "try him out" as a joke. I don't believe he felt that left Aki with Yuri, wanting, expecting or even suspecting Yuri would try to kill Aki, not when Aki was his chess piece. And he didn't goad Asami that much. If Feilong needs to control his feelings like a grownup, then why is it on Mikhail for stirring up Asami? You can't have it both ways.

First, I don't think Fei is a monster. Second, Fei's feelings and how he chooses to deal with them are up to Fei. Fei's feelings of obsession (or if you prefer revenge) are on Fei. Fei's choices and actions are on Fei. Asami didn't toy with Fei. Asami pursued a goal with respect to leadership in the Baishe. Fei is a much better leader than his "brother" would have been.

Asami did good there, even if Fei didn't understand it. Asami didn't screw up. Asami accomplished his goal. Asami may make some comments when he is feeling guilty about Aki being hurt, but that is just what people do. Objectively, Asami got the job done. Fei is in charge, as he should be.

You are correct about the hotel room. Asasmi should have had guard on Aki. I momentarily forgot that. But one mistake doesn't make Asami a bad leader (or destroy my argument). Technically Aki isn't part of Asami's group, and if Fei were not so obsessed with Asami, Fei would have no reason to go after Aki. From the point of view of someone in Asami's rank and file, who cares if Aki was taken? It has nothing to do with the group.

Aki would have gotten into trouble regardless of Asami because of Aki's job and his nature. Aki would have taken that MO, and that would have gotten him picked up. Now, Fei made some choices because of Fei's illogical and unreasonable feelings, but that isn't on Asami. That's Fei's choice. Fei is responsible for his own actions.

Asami doesn't control everything and everyone, and he is not omniscient. But Asami still acts logically, with a strategy. There are times when you can describe him as 'behind' but he is not merely reacting blindly. Asami has a plan. It doesn't always go right, but Asami has a strategy--and he wins at the end.

Asami had plans to deal with Sudou too. Asami let it go on purpose because he had some plan with Kuroda and wanted to find out more about other people dealing with Sudou. It was a strategy, not a failure. Sudou made himself into bait.

Aki volunteered to get involved, and Aki almost got Aki killed (no one will ever convince me it was not stupid to take that drink). Asami showed up to save his ass. Again.

Leaving Sudou behind for Mikhail or whomever was like leaving trash on the curb. Sudou can't hurt Asami. The fact that Sakasaki went garbage picking for the Russians doesn't make it an error to have just thrown that worthless Sudou away. Sudou doesn't matter. He is nothing.

When I pose the question of what good Asami does as a leader, I am looking at his overall effect as the head of a group (or maybe as a leader within a group). Just because everyone is imperfect doesn't mean everyone's skills are equal. Even among imperfect people, some leaders are more effective than others. I would rather a logical, orderly, and competent imperfect leader be in charge than a nasty SOB who can't get the same results.

I am not saying Asami is always in control, or that Asami is perfect. I am saying that Asami is a competent leader, and that those are rare. In fact, so rare that it would be hard to find a character who could do as good a job as Asami does. I am not judging Asami as a person or a lover. I am looking at his affect on the organization he leads and those who are affected by that organization.

From the point of view of someone in Asami's ranks, or someone dealing with Asami's underlings, does it matter if Aki gets hurt because Fei has a thing for Asami? No. it has nothing to do with Asami as a leader.

The reasons I think Asami cares more about leadership than he does about money is that

(1) Yes, he is a workaholic. Why would he do that if it wasn't important to him?

(2) Asami uses money as a tool rather than treating it as a goal. Consider the fact that the decor in Asami's penthouse all belongs to the former owner, and that Asami tells Aki that Aki can redecorate. Asami uses money to buy things to promote a certain image. Asami uses money to make people happy (when Asami likes that person) such as when Asami orders special fireworks or obtains a rare edition of a book. Asami doesn't use money to indulge himself overly much. Where are the things Asami loves in that penthouse? There are those guns, and the S & M equipment, but not a lot of material wealth that seems to matter to him.

(3) "Enjoys" might not be the right would to describe why I think Asami is a leader. It's more that it seems to be important to him. Maybe leadership is also a means to an end and Asamni has goals I do not know about. At this point, abandoning leadership would involve abandoning whatever reason Asami sought leadership for. That's quitting without achieving the goal and giving up on everything he has worked for. I may not know exactly what Asami is working for, but I know it must mean something to him to make him so driven.

I don't have a "character sheet", but if Asami were thinking of retiring, I agree he probably would have a plan. Asami seems to be a guy who thinks things through and goes after his goals. Asami may not be Moriarty, but he is not Aki either. Simply arranging a successor would not change the fact that it might be better if Asami stayed where he is--especially since there is no good reason for Asami to leave now.

What I am saying is that Asami is a competent leader, and that people are better off with him in power rather than they are without him.

Imagine a universe where Hell is real and Satan rules over hoards of demons. One day, Satan says, "F*ck this. I'm going to some nice island and getting myself one of those fruity drinks with an umbrella in it." The Old Liar then leaves Hell to its own devices. Chaos ensues. Demons start warring and rampaging over earth. Damned souls start returning to pester the living. Eventually, the angels get tired of the noise and Michael hunts down old Lucifer to try to make Lucifer take back the reins. Does this mean Satan is a nice guy? Does it mean Satan controls everything? Does it mean Satan is perfect? Of course not. It merely means Satan does a good enough job that having him in charge is better than having him gone.

I am not saying Asami is Satan. I am saying Asami is good enough at his job that having him there is better than not having him there.

I don't know which anon first suggested Mikhail as a successor. It's hard for me to tell one anon from another. However, the difference I am trying to establish is in the reason why people do things. Asami is responsible for Asami's actions. But Asami is not a prick for the joy of being a prick.

Mikhail didn't make Asami shoot, but Mikhail was prick for no particular reason. Mikhail is a prick even when there is not profit in being a prick. Mikhail is a prick for the pure joy of being a prick.

Mikhail's conversation later implies that he personally had been scared by Yuri (someone in Mikhail's group who didn't accept his own desire). Having been scarred himself, Mikhail should know what effect baring Aki's beautiful bum would have on the self-hating Yuri. If Yuri would hurt Mikhail because Yuri hates Yuri's homosexual attractions, what would you think Yuri would do alone with bare-assed Aki? Yuri is responsible for Yuri's choices, but Mikhail was stirring up shit on purpose.

Yeah, Mikhail was being a prick.

it will be boring

In my opinion for adult participants is, ridiculing people for posting (so what if people don't make sense sometimes), calling people out by name, telling people to shut up, f*ck off, etc., and these are all behaviors I've seen on this board. Maybe the posters are still in grade school though.

I think anything is open for discussion. Sometimes I personally feel that Asami apologists go too far defending Akihito's rape and kidnapping, so I don't participate in those discussions, but maybe others enjoy debating Asami's behavior. Since it is my choice whether or not to participate so I don't get offended. I don't feel attacked when I'm disagreed with because I can usually back myself up with the manga. It's the juvenile actions that get annoying at times.

I agree with you there. :)

Honestly I don't think I could have put it better myself. "Since it is my choice whether to participate or not so I don't get offended." That line right there sums it all up for me too.

Agree with this whole post.

Disagreement that becomes heckling for sport. That is to far.

There is always so much negativity online and I've seen a lot over the years, Youtube is particularly bad but I had even seen someone on the brink of suicide on Tumblr due to online bullying. And that's really screwed up. So it means a lot to me that people don't feel attacked, even from 'shut up' or something. It's just not respectful…You should be able to ignore or reason with a point - not shove abuse down peoples' throats.

My own 'you've gone too far' are personal attacks. Even online my character is everything to me, my principles, moral code, liberal views etc. So if someone accuses me of something (like lying or being a egomaniac) I can't f****g stand it, because I am so tough on myself anyway. Disagree with me on everything - evolution, the meaning of life - hell even Viewfinder!!!!! - But calling me something I ain't makes me go fricken' BANANAS.

I know I can always rely on you and some of the posters here to be hilarious, diplomatic, friendly and welcoming, but talk it out when you feel passionate about something! And we should! But I feel like now I'm in a trolls sights and that is really disheartening as a person in this fandom….

I'm staying anon to answer this because, lately, there has been a troll, or a couple of them, who have multiple accounts which they use to gang up on certain members and down-vote all their comments, topics and replies, post derogatory attacks and destroy their efforts to make friends and find followers. They've attacked a couple of people I respect a lot, including one very sweet girl who wouldn't say an unkind word to anyone. They also do multiple postings of the same opinions worded slightly differently to look like there is consensus where there isn't. It's causing a lot of problems.

I thought there was more than one . I just was not sure of it. Working together? What's the point? sport?

I see people react and run over innocent bystanders in the process. Or who may be innocent? Who knows. Then there are some who like a good brawl and wade right in. If the trolls are doing it for sport, they are probably having a good time. Or it may be political.

The person I mentioned doesn't want to participate in discussions anymore.

Haha, you sound exactly like me. I used to be so active here and everywhere, pretty happy to be out there and talking to people about anything and everything, I'd never say something to anyone on here that I wouldn't in real life (and I mean that honestly, I'm from a confrontational house hold so nearly anything goes with me) but I've had people put words in my mouth and attack my character, like you don't have to like my ideas or whatever that's cool, but that... Omg I have been left SHAKING, I have never been that mad in my life.

It's so disheartening, to the point where I stick to myself and the people I trust because reaching out in this fandom is terrifying. I'm actually glad someone else is open enough to bring this sort of thing up.

Thank you for letting us know this. Shining a light on it gives it a diff. perspective. if anything comes out of this is that people can become more comfortable posting here now that this is known. Romance did a good thing in opening this topic today. Otherwise this info would have not come to light,

I am sorry that happened--but I have to say "Starbelly Sneetches" is a great name.

(⌒▽⌒)

Oh gosh! I am not good with confrontation so yep I totally get that - and you tend to wonder just how it can affect us so much, even though it's online!
I'll try and stick to easy topics from now on though, and I'm going to use a safe word when I need a grown up! ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~






P.S. Miss your fics :D

I just want to say, it feels bad when sometimes all you want to express is you disagree because blah, blah, blah but other people take it instead as a declaration of personal war. It also feels bad when people misunderstand your point and comfortably go against you based on that. I like disagreeing because although it's frustrating at times, there are actually instances that it becomes worth it because I get to see another rational person's point of view. To be more general, it only feels bad when people get all irrational on you.
About attacking the person her/himself, I call people annoying when I think they are because I base it on them being irrational or being mean themselves.
So yeah, I guess I'm not the calm, let it be type of person but I don't really like being- yes, I'm going to use that word again- irrational as well.

It's very easy to get carried away in the midst of a debate, but those who go all irrational are either having a bad day (it happens) or are generally angry people to begin with.

And personal attacks, nasty trolling, stalking a commenter and marking everything they post with thumbs down/annoying, etc. are done with the sole intention of hurting some random person(s) they don't know. I wish people would think about that and realize someone like that is really messed up. That person (to put it politely) has problems. No one should permit themselves to be sucked into that. It's a knee-jerk reflex to react to it, but most effective solution is to ignore them completely. Confrontation/acknowledgement only fuels them.

I'm guessing this is about me saying I actually tell irrational and mean people they're annoying. I'm not sure, if you can be bothered, correct me if I'm wrong. I've actually only told someone that once because it was too much for me to ignore. So, yeah, don't worry, I don't intend to carry on after I've told them my honest feelings in those kinds of situations. As for debates, as I've said, I only enjoy those reasonable ones that actually discuss the manga or topics concerning what we've read. One last thing, I personally don't get hurt with nasty trolling, thumbing down, etc. so uhm, yeah, they can't push me out of commenting on other mangas I'll probably want to comment on in the future! (Yay for me!) I can be reminded though when I am being too much or if I'm coming off as mean. If the person don't deserve it (I can mull on that), I'll apologize. As I've said though, I get annoyed. I myself don't want to surrender to fueling the fire but I think I should be able to give them a piece of my mind once and then leave it at that. (I did reply once more to the person that time, I guess I shouldn't have.)
Whew. I've spouted out a mouthful again but I just wanted to be clear on my intentions (although this may not be the best place) lest some people would be too sensitive.
Peace! *in a low voice*

No, this was really for those who become dismayed by attacks on their opinons (which sometimes seem to turn personal). I hate seeing so many people say they don't want to post comments here because of that. Hell, I wish more people would comment! More variety and all that.

I'm glad you're made of tougher stuff and you should be able to speak your mind, but when you give them a piece of your mind, you only encourage them to continue their behavior (I'm talking about those being obvious in their motives... not those who've might have lost it temporarily).

I'm aware I can be clutzy at times. Definitely let me know if I've stepped on your toes. ;)

This isn't aimed at you (because I honestly don't remember "Kin" making personal comments), but it is very human to start to get personally involved in a debate--and in practice there can be little difference between, "This idea is stupid." and "You are stupid." It's always a conundrum when I want to call someone out for doing something that I think is a personal attack when there is no way to do it without singling that person out and attacking back. If I am being reasonable, I remind myself that the only way to get back to talking about the manga is to talk only about the manga (or related topic).

On a bad day, I may give in to my first response to address the person instead of the ideas, or keep arguing past the point where most people
would just let it go. This can be a problem if there is a person with whom you regularly disagree--sometimes that just happens because we each see the world and the manga the way we see it. It's like the debate over the color of this dress:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress_%28viral_phenomenon%29

People see what they see, and they can't people other people see something else. Some even looked at those who argue for colors they don't see and think, "Oh right--this person always sees it wrong." and proceed with this in mind. That's actually kind of normal, because this is the type of things people do. We are all human, and all we can do it try not to be a jerk.

The thing is, deep down, everyone secretly believes she is right.

Oh, since it was replied to me so... oh, but I see now how it relates. And I don't really disagree.
"...but when you give them a piece of your mind, you only encourage them to continue their behavior (I'm talking about those being obvious in their motives... not those who've might have lost it temporarily)."
And here, yeah, I see your point. Although I thought you may be able to leave them hanging and then they may eventually cool down, that may not be mostly the case. Just got to clamp up my virtual go-tell-people-off mouth a bit more or something.

Yeah, my bad. Anyway,
"We are all human, and all we can do it try not to be a jerk."
Teehee, I like that. I should be honest, all that I've made a point of here was really more of how I want it to be with myself. My memory is bad and I really couldn't know if I've made some slip-ups. But if you don't remember anything, I guess that's a nice bit of a sign.

I think sometimes I forget how what I write may seem to someone who may be timid. Although my fandom of choice changes over time, I've been fan-girling online since the days of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (Yes, I am that old). This won't mean anything to those outside the BtVS fandom, but the original "Bangle" v. "Spuffy" schism inspired deeper and longer flame wars than any "team" inspired by Twilight. I think I have only seen more carnage in political forums. Once you get used to that, it kind of raises the bar for the type of things that stand out as particularly nasty.

Of course, that was before the days of doxxing and people taking these arguments into real life. To me, that takes it from merely crossing the line to insane stalker territory.

I realized *after* I replied, "oh... Kin was commenting on what THEY said... not me", started to reply back to explain that I misread that, and then just decided to just go ahead and eat my fail, lol.

(I'm editing documents and "playing" on websites at the same time. Not successfully, apparently.)

I'm just as guilty at succumbing the urge to tell people off for their stupid stuff.

Uhm, I'll accept any accusations of stupidity for what I'm about to say but this is going to be an honest statement meaning what it really does: I don't really understand this as a reply. I mean, I understand the statements but I don't know why say them as a reply to what I just said? Maybe I've been sounding too concerned about why people said that thing after I said this thing but I'm purely just curious (and feeling stupid) now, partly since you just shared quite a bit about yourself there.

My first "fandom" was pre-internet: Star Wars (yes, I am THAT old, Anoni, lol!). It was a tat more difficult in those days to keep in touch, but I grew up with that (I was nine when the first movie came out) and even in the pre-internet days there were ways to meet and get together (hell, people actually wrote LETTERS in those days!).

My first internet fandom was around 1996, 1997 and that was - and yes, I know how that sounds! - "Lord of the Dance/Feet of Flames". And I have to say in those early days that was the best community ever and I haven't seen one like this ever since. I have been to shows and then fan meetings in my own country as well as abroad. In the summer 1997 I met with people from every continent in London and it was an amazing time. Online, yes, there was the occasional bickering, but nothing like what you would find nowadays. Back then, people in the community really had each other's back. The occasional troll was artfully ridiculed and kicked out of the door. It was my first and still remains my best online community experience. Back then, the internet was all about people comming together, it was such a positive experience! I was also active in the "Lord of the Rings" fandom at the highpont (and before that) and there we also had a fantastic national community that is active to this day and we meet once a year.

One of the fiercest communities (like the Buffy folks) was LOST. The fight between the Jack/Kate and Sawyer/Kate supporters was a nasty and bitter one for years. Just watching people attacking each other eventually spoiled the show for me (not to mention the really shitty end, lol!).

And nowadays I stay out of it all. Given how times have changed in terms of Social Media, I have become extremely careful and private. I think one experience too many will do that to you... Sad, but true: Back in 1996 I thought the internet woudl bring people from all over the world closer together, that it would help extinguish precudices and stereotype about other people. In the end? It has only turned out to be the media with which to SPREAD precudices and stereotypes QUICKER. I love the internet for the information I get from it. I hate it for what it has done to us as a society - online and in real life.

Oh, and one community I was never a fan of, but which is particularly nasty is the Sherlock/Benedict Cumberbatch fandom. They have to groups, the "nannies" and the "spectics" (I think) and it is all about whether Mr Cumberbatch's marriage to wife Sophie Hunter is a PR scam or not. First they said: "That's not his girlfriend.", then "she is not pregnant", then "she is pregnant, but it's not his.", then "they are not getting married", then "they just pretended to get married, but didn't", then "they "will divorce before the end of the year". Fans from either side slipped Cumberbatch notes about suposed stalker fans from the other fans during ComiCon. Martin Freeman and his wife received death threads by fans because they criticized their behaviour. "Fans" were doing calculations online with a pregnance calculator to see if the kid could actually be his. They were even - not kidding - attempts to optain a copy of the marriage certificate and the baby's birth certificate. It is - directed at the stars of Sherlock and regarding the fan camps fighting each other - a level of vitriol, hate, bullying, trolling, violation of privacy, stalking and endangerment of people's lives which I have NEVER EVER seen in all my life. It's like a absolute madhouse. To give you an idea:

http://sophiehuntergossipblog.tumblr.com/

That is just... all sorts of deranged. Woah.

Oh, sometimes my mind takes weird turns. What you said seemed pretty accepting, and this is a topic that affects many fandoms. You said "My bad" as if this happens only to you. I just kind of kept chatting about how it happens all over. :)

Wow. I won't apologize for shipping fictional characters, but the actors who play them (and their families) deserve respect. I am a casual Sherlock fan, and I ship Johnlock, but the most I can condone is wanting the character John to leave the character they created as John's wife. I have also used the term "Cumberbuns" but I meant it in the nicest, least dehumanizing way possible. Damn, I think that fandom is not for me.

PS As an aside, I saw a video the other day that claimed the Sherlock Holmes novels had the first documented book-based "geek" fandom (as opposed to sports fandoms). I say "documented" because for all I know fandoms have been fighting since the first storyteller. But Sherlock book fans were the first to demand a creator bring back a character after the author killed him (and it worked).

I just think it's funny that Sherlock fans are still so passionate. I mean, It sucks for the actors who get pulled into the rotten side of fandoms, but it is interesting.

I went off yesterday bec. I had enough. After weeks of it I had reached my limit. I put up the snarly remarks and RealOrFake nasty sexual cracks and I took it. When they changed their name to Dare , I cont. to ignore them . But yesterday , It built up and I let it go.. So you don't know how it feels They are not after any one but me. At first , I felt bad about my outburst. They did not attack my opin. my points of views, or logic. But their nasty clawing over time got to me. Sorry I'm human. I will not be a punching bag for any one. I'm glad I let loose even if it sounded" biblical". I had simply had enough. I will not take it any more.

Oh dear. That sounds like quite a bit of drama was going on. Sorry I missed that, but from what you describe that sounds oddly familiar, like that one troll that keepings coming here and opens threads provoking people and telling everyone how much fan he/she is having in doing so. RealorFake certainly rings a bell. That one has been coming here over the last few weeks/months. And there is certainly nothing subtle about them. I just didn't realize that the attacks were primarily focused on you, RB, I always thought it was more of a general troll thing along the lines of "you manga idiots all suck" (I remember one of the threads that started like that).

And too right. You are noone's punching bag or punching ball. Fully understandable you needed to let off some steam. So don't worry too much about that happening. In general I find that what they want most is attention and creating havoc. So the best way to fight them is to quietly ignore them, because it starves them out and the lose interest eventually. So I think you are on the right track there, girl, but I also no it's super, super hard when people get personal. *big hugs*

That's pretty mental, right? And that is just ONE Tumblr blog.

I, for one, have always enjoyed what you've had to say and I like hearing your ideas, RB. I don't respond to much or post much, as I stated to Romance, I keep quiet most of the time, but I just want to let you know that I'm your quiet supporter! Only thing you can do now is move on and start again after all that's said and done. :)

Yes, I'm like you, I would also classify myself as a casual Sherlock fan. I have always loved the books, love the show, but no fandom activity. And like you said, nothing wrong with shipping fictional characters, because they are just that, fictional. It won't hurt them. But when it comes to the actors and their family? That's where it should never ever go. It's sad that so many people don't know how to draw the line.

The sad thing is: During season 2 Sherlock was the reason I first checked out Tumblr and it was actually quite fun back then to read people's enthusiastic reactions to the show, there was so much creativity and humor there. Everyone was really into it, but in a good way. I discovered Sherlock right before Reichenbach Fall. That night Tumblr imploded, it was quite remarkable. And then there were all those great theories about how he had pulled it off. Fantastic. But it all went downhill and became this bitter battle during season 3 and now Tumblr is basically a killing field with regards to Sherlock. That fandom is poisoned beyond repair.

Regarding Johnlock: I think it's fun playing around with the idea and I mean, even Moffat and Gattiss do it, and very cheekily so. I loved how they played with that during Empty Hearse. The subtext is there, there is no denying that. :) But it's drawing the line to reality that is important. I remember when the show "Merlin" aired, it was a similar thing. Many shipped Merlin and Arthur (I have forgotten whether that was Marthur or Merthur, lol, I think it was Merthur). But some went as far as to insist, that the actors were lovers in real life. I think it was one of the reasons why the actors eventually called it quits after five seasons. That can't have been easy, having strangers invade your privacy like that.

You were being targeted. I understand.

Don't let them get to you. We've got your back. ;)

I follow some SuperWhoLock Tumblr blogs. I am not scary; I just watch all of those shows. I stay away from the fights though. Sometimes I feel sorry for the actor's families. Children are especially entitled to privacy, no matter how cute Misha Collin's son may be.

It's a crazy word.

Oh, I meant my bad on mistaking that the comment J Unleashed made was pointed at me, so, yeah. And "this is a topic that affects many fandoms". It's not hard to see that it does (though I have to admit I've never been part of any).

Only if you can turn back time and undo your rotten wrong doing but too late for that. Whoever this real or fake is........ I tip my hat off to you. I have never seen a bunch of blah blah blah blah "cry me a river , how pathetic. Reality bite don't kid yourself, you not special in my book and not the only one in my site. I am glad you have each other back cuz you will need it. Have a beautiful day your. I have others that have my back too against all of you.

+ 1! :)

It really is. You are absolutely wright. When the Christmas special airs, I will stay far away from any fandom activities and just... enjoy it ["Wear the damn hat, Sherlock! ^^].
P.S.: I would never think yoy are scary, Anoni, and I'll have words with anyone who thinks so! :)

*right*

Hey RB, you know the only good thing about sock puppets?

http://i0.wp.com/madmikesamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sockpuppets-love-to-get-fisted.jpg?fit=1024%2C1024

(Excuse the yoai humor)

Now you say you're sorry~♫
For bein' so untrue~♫
Well, you can cry me a river~♫
Cry me a river~♫
I cried a river over you~♫

You drove me, nearly drove me out of my head~♫
While you never shed a tear~♫
Remember, I remember all that you said~♫

Naive , let me elaborate something to you, why waste time explaining. Just close your mouth and do what you to best *cough *not*cough that is the question of the day for you.

OMG, AG, I just snorted my water... :D I thought you were going to say: "They can keep your feet warm in the winter." Didn't quite expect THAT. ^^

I can't stand to fly~♫
I'm not that naïve~♫
I'm just out to find~♫
The better part of me~♫

Believe me, I always wonder about that

"Im gona punish( ) this month and make Him clean that damm back seat." insert name of who ever pissed him off that day.

"Lucky bastard."

Ha ha ha, that's an extremely practical approach. :)

Me too. Do you think it makes it hard to drive?

Which one?

No I don't. He used to it hahaha

"I think it's time to replace the shock absorbers..."

look at the bottom left, there is a divider in the car , you can close or open it
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c032/22/

Yes, but it is open. And Kirishima has to provide security.

he opened after to talk to him of course

I dont think the possessive asami want s.one else to see Aki naked or horny, use you brain and think about it

The sound effect in that one frame indicates the divider is going down.

maybe he can hear, but not see, the divider isnt sound proof

Yep. And he sees Asami throw Aki in (when Aki has clothes in place):

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v000/c001.1/13/

and then they come out like this:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v000/c001.1/18/

Spoilsport. My OCR translation program said it meant "one" when counting aloud and fourth (as in fourth on the calendar)or Denmark. The OCR hates it when characters are at all slanted or blurry.

I saw in some tv serie, there is a switch in the car door witch can open or close the divider between the driver and the owner

Oh, I know that have them. But I also think Kirishima notices things. He is an employee, not a house plant. :)

but of course

I think Kirishima can't see what is happening behind him, but he had guessed everything and doesn't really care as long as he knows that Asami is safe. He's always impassive (except when he thinks that someone is bothering his boss, like Akihito sometimes^^) but he's always attentive to Asami's needs.

What Kirishima wants is Asami's safety and happiness. I think he likes (worships?) and deeply respect Asami so, as long as Asami is happy and satisfied, he doesn't care what or who is satisfying him.

So, in my opinion, his thoughts must be something like that: "Ah, I'm glad because Asami-sama is going to enjoy his night and will be satisfied and rested in the morning. He deserves it because he works so hard and so much! I told him to take a holiday but he doesn't listen. And I hope Akihito Takaba, this brat, isn't going to bother Asami-sama with his impertinence."

I could see Kirishima going either way.

Alohomori when did you start this mind meld with kirishima. that response seemed just like him. hahahahaha.

I wonder if he thinks 'This is it...This is what I get paid for. LOL'

Lol. I would prefer a mind connection with Akihito (especially when he's with Asami).^^
I don't know if it's a mind meld with Kirishima (lol) but I think he must have this kind of thoughts because his boss and his well-being come first for him :)

salut alohomori,
i think kirishma don't realy appreciates akihito's relationship with his boss, he literally worships asami sama, he think that he deserves better, we have seen kirishma geeting mad at takaba many times like here http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c030.1/42/ and here too http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c030.1/17/ and here http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/koisuru_finder_no_hyouteki/uu/koisuru_finder_no_hyouteki-chapter-1/57/ if kirishma have an influential say in this matter , he would separates akihito from asami like a furious mother in law : "my son deserves better i Know what you're aiming for; his wealth and statue, take this money and disappear at once from his sight " c'est cette image que j'ai de kirishma dans ma tête.

Hi Reponce!

In my point of view, it's not the fact that Kirishima doesn't like Akihito. It's more that Kirishima doesn't like the mess Akihito brings in Asami's life and business. Each time we can see his anger towards Akihito is because Aki did something that created troubles to Asami (and Kirishima hates when Asami is troubled). I think Kirishima doesn't mind Akihito when Aki's behaviour is good.

For Kirishima, Asami comes first but for Asami, it's Akihito who comes first and Kirishima knows that. I even think he must be happy for Asami because Akihito brings happiness to Asami. And Akihito succeeded in making Asami take holidays (even if the holidays were a little bit forced after what happened in Honk Kong^^).

Another thing which makes me say Kirishima have nothing against Asami and Akihito's relationship is that he has confidence in Akihito. Kirishima knows that Aki is living with Asami in his penthouse and Kirishima knows he can count on Akihito about certain things, like in this scene:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c035.1/5/
If he didn't like Akihito, he wouldn't have asked him to bring him stuff, interrupting Akihito's work to do this service.

I agree that Kirishima scolds like a nanny. My impression is he sees Aki as a kid and thinks Aki needs to grow up and start acting responsibly. But I don't think Kirishima cares at all about interrupting Aki's Job, because I think he doe snot take that job seriously. He was fighting to protect Aki on the boat though, and even if it were for Asami, he also did it for Aki.

alohomori, mes condoléances, le monde court vers sa fin. ici est un spot ou j'oublie la dure réalité mais malheureusement je ne connais pas un autre endroit pour vous adresser mes respects.

Yes, I totally agree with you, on all points.

Asami and Aki have an age gap of 12 years and age is very important in Japan as they associate age with an additional wisdom and a gain of experiences. Kirishima sees Asami as someone with a lot of serious and very responsible, the opposite of Akihito.

I think Kirishima cares for Akihito in a certain way, because Aki is not a bad guy, doesn't want to hurt Asami (on the contrary, he wants to protect him) and brings Asami happiness. Kirishima must be happy that Asami can finally think about something else than work.

Merci pour cette pensée. C'est vrai que partager nos points de vue sur cette page, ainsi que les mangas peuvent faire oublier cette dure réalité de la vie que tu mentionnes. Cependant, je préfère rester positive et penser que le monde ira mieux demain. Mon point de vue est peut-être utopiste mais je préfère garder en mémoire les bons côtés de la vie et de l'humanité que les mauvais.

They are men, expectations of readers , culture.

I don't think gender has anything to do with it. Saying it's a "guy thing" is a little like stereotyping in my opinion, communication break downs such as this happen in all sorts of relationships of all different genders, so I'd like to think that term is null and void, because it comes down to a personality thing more than anything else. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

That's true. I'm usually the first to complain when people say "girlie" to mean weak. :) The reason I brought it up as possibility is that the stereotypes do exist--and some men buy into it (especially older generations). There are certainly exceptions. Like most gender-role generalizations, I think it depends on the culture and peer-group too. Sometimes it is simply a matter of degree as to how each gender handles such cultural traits. For example, my dad is more "The strong, silent type" than my mom. My mom is not much for "silence", but she isn't as emotional as some other people either (or at least, not as directly emotional). I know this is anecdotal, but very often there is some amount of truth within generalizations, as long as we allow for exceptions.

It is also dangerous to stereotype cultures, but again, some generalizations are based on trends that really exist. For example, I have a friend from Columbia who greets me by kissing me on both cheeks. This is not a custom for most Americans. I am not saying every Colombian does it, or than no American does it, but it is something more Colombian than American. Does that make sense?

Oh, I forgot to say, my friend is a female. Her husband (also Colombian) shakes hands. It's sort of a gender-role thing within the culture. (Of course, there may be exceptions).

Thanks RB. I think you are right that personality ultimately controls how someone acts. I was just re-watching the TV "Heroes" (because they started a "Heroes Reborn" show and I forgot the first show). There is a Japanese male character, Hiro, who discovers he has a superpower that lets him transport himself. He gets to NY, and he starts jumping and smiling and shouting "I love NY!" (in English). It is almost like the giggling hand-clapping thing you see when some women do when they want to show appreciation. He was adorable. Of course, we are talking about fictional characters, but this doesn't match the image of Japanese men I often see in Manga, but it seems right for this guy. So, in fiction as in life, there is a lot of leeway.

Doh. that time I meant to reply to Reaity Bites. I'll stop and go back to work now. Sorry.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c027/17/

That was a treat and a half INEED YaoiTO. Loved it. Could not do better.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c041/11/

Actually this could work too in a way, Asami all standing sexy like that and the serial killer might get a nosebleed and die. Or just melt away,whichever.

Mmmm, yes. Your house shall be free of toilet paper and shaving cream tonight.

I'm a bit slow, I guess, because I didn't get what you said. o.O

Oh, in the US, children go around on Halloween dressed in costumes and say "Trick or Treat". If they don't like the treat, they may play a trick, like throwing rolls of toilet paper over the trees and bushes in your yard, or putting shaving cream on your windows. The trick part is out of favor in many places. Egg-throwing remains annoying common in high schools.

Anyway, I mean I like your treat, so I won't trick you.

the best treat.

Ok, here is a silly "trick" for my friend "Anonymous" who imagines our boys as a hefty soprano and an otter. It's a quick Photoshop, so don't expect a treat.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/d3400bfec1ef14cfde4ecdffde985178/tumblr_nx3mh1E9kh1tz63b4o1_1280.jpg

Oh thanks, I've heard about Halloween, just didn't know that kids would trick people. LOL

Kirishima is coming for you Anoni Grrl for what you did to Asamisama, that was funny.

Don't fool yourselves with that low class jokes. By the way, sorry to disappoint you Anoni Grrl, Anonymous has gotten trick treat already. Her head shaved into Anon ass vice versa.

same here we always see in movies old folks gives bombon and chocolate to cute child but i didn't know that kids can do nasty tricks if they aren't satisfied.

It was supposed to be a threat--little devils and monsters saying they will trick you unless you treat them. Most skids just say "thanks" and never trick people. It depends.

Older kids are more likely to prank--and it's not always on those who didn't give candy (though that was the idea back in the day). Many places don't really have the same strength of tradition anymore because people are so scared to let kids roam. Once, kids went out, changed costumes and emptied their loot, made the rounds a second time, and then looked for the TP. Now kids are with parents and only go to houses where they know people--or teens are at some kind of party. So sad.

insecurity, a fear can't let you live fully ur life sadly things have changed here in my country too and i think all over the world too, the whole thing degrates and cracks ....anyway happy halloween. (I hope i I made you scared :D )

You sadly wrong. The fun is just starting. Think about what is life without fear, pain and suffering. You're will learn in time.

A group of us were invited to set up Trick or Treat "stations" for kids who live on a nearby military base. They held this in a large parking lot and had loud music playing, a couple of tents made into makeshift "haunted houses", etc.

We dressed up and gave out candies (I gave out Warheads because I'm a total sadist).

We had an absolute blast!

Exactly. I've only seen people giving away candies to kids.

Well, about a hundred years ago, kids would soap windows, steal wagon wheels and even put wagons on the roof. This was sometimes more popular than getting a treat. My grandfather told stories of how his grandfather always putting a wagon on the school roof every year--they'd take it apart, climb every piece up and reassemble it. Then great great gandpa walked home alone from the prank and freaked himself out every time anything pale or shadowy moved. I think Grampa was slightly disappointed that I never found a way to put a car on my own school's roof. Grampa didn't understand that the bribes not to prank had gotten a lot better since the days of bobbing for apples.

You can still see videos on Youtube of people's houses that were TP-ed, but now most kids can't be arsed to do more than throw an egg at another kid.

Sounds like fun. Sometimes I think we lost something wild and free, but I can see why people do the "trunk and treat" option. It's not as if I want anyone to be hurt.

I think, like much to do with Asami, it has been left deliberately vague, and it's one of the unanswered questions that helps maintain tension in the story over its 12 (?) year run. That said, I think we might get some indication of Asami's true colours with the wrap up of this story, both in how Asami reacts to Sudou's betrayal and in how he reacts to Akihito having given another man a blowjob, the day after Asami told him he would erase anyone Akihito cheated with. There are recordings of it and I'm sure it will come out.

I think Asami possesses a combination a both. He saves Aki and wants him to be out of danger because he is into Aki and is protective of him and he acts smartly in his business. And he only kills people when he is angered or when it is absolutely necessary or when he or Aki is in danger.

And of course, he doesn't like kids to be involved. He has kind of a soft side to him. Remember in character book, a kid accidently got his icecream on Asami's suit and he didn't yell at the kid and got him another icecream. And Aki says 'He is not a monster'. This is an example. So maybe from that, we can conclude that innocents are kept out of it.

Sudoh, on the other hand, did all kinds of stupid shit and did some more stupid shit because he wanted Asami all to himself.

Sakazaki and Mikhail, they use dirty tricks. And I do wanna watch Asami's reaction when he comes to know that Aki gave Sakazaki a bj.

So, IMO, he does have more ethics than Sudoh or Sakazaki. He was also angry at Aki when Aki got drugged by a chocolate and they had sex in his office. Asami shows both his sides, a good one and a bad one. But due to his business, the bad side of him is more visible.

Asami is involved with illegal activity (guns are strictly regulated in Japan) but most criminals have a line they won't cross. Asami may have a personal code since he owns legitimate businesses and needs to not act like a thug. For example like in Kizuna when Kai talks about managing the legitimate side, Masa the yakuza side. Asami manages both and will get his hands dirty (Mikhail's messenger vol 4) if he has to. Since we don't know about Asami's past, we really don't know what he is up to. He has a master's degree from a prestigious university so he may come from a rich family, or he could be the poor, intelligent kid who got scholarships. His mystery adds to the suspense.

Akihito is special to him. Even when Akihito sold him out (Vol 3), he didn't kill him, but went to Hong Kong to get him. I'm hoping that when Asami finds out about the BJ, he will blame himself for making Akihito so insecure that he would to anything to gain Asami's favor. Akihito is ride or die and Asami needs acknowledge this and throw him an emotional bone. I don't think he should punish Akihito for doing the BJ, he should berate himself for making Akihito insecure enough to do it.

Bottom line, Asami is a human being who has good and bad, but he loves Akihito and it shows. Asami is his own code of ethics. I guess I could have said it in once sentence.

Aesthetic definition a set of principles that underline a certain type of art. what is his art? Being the Fixer. He never involves innocent people in his affairs (Takaba pulls himself in) He gets the job done ex. getting the gun back from the stalker that belonged to his "client". His underground business stayed underground. What he has achieved draws people to him Kuroda, Kirishima, Yoh are loyal to and show it. In this underworld Asami is the dark angel wearing the white hat . I'm romanticizing him too.

You have a good poi8nt about it being left open. It does make the story more complex.

I have a fantasy where Sakazaki tries to blackmail Aki with the photo, and Aki just calls Asami and says, "Hey, this dud has a photo of me giving him a blowjob. I didn't want to, and it was gross but..." BAM the guy Asami has follow Aki around busts in the door and pushes Sakasaki down, holding him to the floor. Minutes later Asami storms in and Aki has to talk Asami out of killing Sakzaki. Then Asami and Aki go home and have angry kink sexy, and it ends with the two of them cuddling and talking about how they want to continue their relationship exclusively. Not in a directly gushy way--but in a "I'll erase anyone who touches you." "Well then no one is allowed to touch you either." "Oh really? *smirks* Well, then I guess that's so."

Of course,that is too short for this story.

That's what I like about you RB, you get me. I do not know if Asami thinks of it as ethics, but he might consider it a matter of style. Asami thinks certain things are just tacky. I think that Asami does the job he decides he needs to do, and that he usually fulfills his side of any bargain he makes.

Annoi Grrl My definition of Asami is the black Knight with a white heart. An imperfect perfection. He regulates the iregularities of life like Sakazaki. I would add to your scene of the bj. Asami saying to the offender I would not touch you with my 10 foot pole Sakazkki. You are not Takaba.(It's not Takaba Sakkys wants it's Asami). He's got style this white hatted demon.

If Asami has a code, it's a highly idiosyncratic one. One minute, he's careful not to kill people. Another, he's blowing someone's brains out just because he's pissed.

Asami also says a lot of shit he never follows through on. He says he'll wipe out anyone who touches Aki but then Sudou kidnaps Aki, ties him up and slices his neck open and all he gets is a haughty look? When is Sudou getting wiped out?

So yeah, I'm thinking everyone is putting way too much weight on the BJ incident. If it's referred to again at all, it's not going to be the game changer so many seem to expect.

B,j. after affects incident is supposition. As for Sudoh Skazzy removed him from the hospital before the hit man could strike. It was implied by other charc. the hitman was sent by Asami.(not so sure about that).

The hit man was sent by whoever Aaron works for. Sakazaki mentioned that Asami should know that Sudou would be targeted and he was somewhat surprised that Asami did not give Sudou protection.

Ref:
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v08/c052/1/

I totally agree with you on this.

Asami is an enigma which is why he is so fascinating. Asami code is strictly Asami's and is unpredictable. He puts up with Akihito betraying him, and he only shoots for the hand instead of the head or chest, when he has a clear chance to kill those who are trying to hurt Akihito. Then he wants to face an Army of home invaders alone.

The BJ situation is another mystery. I want Asami to be reflective, others think he will be pissed. In true Asami style, we don't know. After all, he let Akihito blow Fei Long, so he may just let it pass. We won't know until we get there. Sensei does a great job of giving us a little crack of light to see in the dark.

Thanks for clearing that up J unleashed. It would not make sense for Asami to kill Sudoh before at least finding out the info he needs. there are all kinds of ways of punishing people(remember the stalker) I don't know if Asami did that himself. That was well after the stalker was released from jail, which is were Sudoh was prob. going, but who knows. We are not the ones writing this. Maybe Sudoh serves some plot purpose later on. i

You have point. Sometimes I wonder if I am missing something in the translation. For example, when Asami says he will "erase" someone, does that mean kill, destroy economically, or ignore? Is Asami not following through, or is it simply different than what I think he means?

I think what Asami is doing to Sudou is the WORST possible punishment for him-- he is no longer acknowledging Sudou's existence. It's not even intentional on Asami's part. He is truly done with him.

Or as Kuroda noted, coldly tossed away like a broken toy. Here is the scene: http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c043/7/

In the published volume, the dialogue in the bottom panels and the top panel on the next page, goes like this (it's almost identical):

Asami: "Sudou... is a cunning and calculating man who was of good use to me, but... he's broken now, isn't he..."

Kuroda: "...you sound like he's a toy you own."

Asami: "If you can't use them, you throw them away. It's not so different..."

I don't think Asami even cares about getting information from Sudou... though I'm sure Kuroda and Akihito think differently in that regard.

I've read some short stories that Asami grew up very poor and that his mother was abused by her 2nd husband.

I think asami wears a poker face because of childhood/past and he uses that to protect himself- until he met Am I

I've read some short stories that Asami grew up very poor and that his mother was abused by her 2nd husband.

I think asami wears a poker face because of childhood/past and he uses that to protect himself- until he met Aki

It depends on the circumstances. When Asami said he would "erase" anyone who touched Akihito, I have no doubt he meant "kill" (Ch. 42 on this site).

When he was talking to Akihito about "erasing" someone who keeps him from getting what he wants (Ch. 1.1 here), I think he actually meant "crush the competition"... but at the time, it appears he was purposely goading a defeated Akihito for his own sadistic amusement. It's possible Asami was being overdramatic just to get a reaction.

where did you read those short stories? O_O??
Share please~ ^3^

Where are these stories???!!!!!!
I want to read them too!!!!!

I also want to check those short stories too please share where you read it :3

They are fan fics, not part of the manga - I recall reading this story (I think it was on fanfiction.net or AO3)

The translation in the tankoban is "rip them to pieces" which is actually less interesting, I think. Erase, as you say, could be cut offleave to their fate as he is doing with Sudou. Rip to pieces is an explicit physical threat, so unless he has a very good reason not to go after Sakazaki when the truth about him and Akihito comes out - something like Akihito leaping between them, as he did in Naked Truth with Fei Long, then anything less than killing Sakazaki is going to make Asami look like a man of empty threats. I don't think he will kill Sakazaki, so I'm interested to see how the story handles it.

Lol . I don't know much about hybrids, but, l like ur matches. I can't wait to see what others come up with.

Seeing that I own pedigree dogs and compete with them in various avenues like agility, sheep work, and know breed personalities well, I'm gonna say Akihito is more like a Belgian Tervuren, (I have two of them) full of energy, high drive, loyal, easily trainable in the right hands, but disastrous in the wrong hands.

Asami is a Doberman, fearless, fast, smart and streamlined, a good breed for protection or bite work.

Mikhail is a long haired German Shepherd, also good for protection and bite work, smart and gutsy, along with a nice shaggy coat :)

Fei Long is a Saluki (Shami), long limbed and elegant, clean, and extremely fast, can sometimes be aloof with strangers.

Kirishima is a Border Collie, that guy sees everything, extremely smart, good at problem solving and very diligent worker with drive and intensity.

Kirishima's breed is perfect. He always seem to be "herding" Akihito. I think Suoh is a Great Dane.

Well, I see Asami as a huge Black Jaguar and Akihito as a European Wildcat. Mikhail is like a bulldog, and Fei like an Afghan. I agree that Kirishima is like a Border Collie, and I think Suoh is like a Wolfhound.

On second thought, Aki is more like a Pallas Cat ...

I almost said dobie for Asami too. I just liked the build of the husky better. I am not familiar with the Belgian Tevuren, but they sound cool. I will look them up.

I just saw some pics of a pallas cat on Tumblr. I had the odd desire to take one home (domestication, shomestication--it's cute!). The eyes are a little crazy though.

Those are all great, but I think I'd say cat for Fei too. He doesn't strike me as dog-like at all. Though we all know he's really a dragon. ^^

Behold,the mighty dragon cat:

http://41.media.tumblr.com/ef18c093876bb9ac0d948b695d85b415/tumblr_nk5j8qhrp41s4svnbo1_1280.jpg

http://i---love.tumblr.com/image/106983966928

I saw a great drawing of a cross between a Chinese dragon and a cat on Tumblr, but now I can't find it.

Perfect. Now I know what I'll get as my new pet...I think I'm in love.